Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 392
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 1999 7:20 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #392
champ-l-digest Sunday, June 13 1999 Volume 01 : Number 392
In this issue:
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Automata
Fwd: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Char: Exterminators
Re: Steve Austin
Re: Summon: Summoned Creatures and Disadvantages
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Fwd: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Songs to supers...
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Songs to supers...
Re: Songs to supers...
Re: Songs to supers...
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Char: Exterminators
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Automata
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Songs to supers...
Re: Songs to supers...
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Char: Exterminators
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 02:26:09 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> * "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> on Thu, 10 Jun 1999
> | So you are saying that Area Effect allows a power to affect a character
that
> | it couldn't normally affect?
>
> I am saying that AoE might cause a power to affect a character that it
> wouldn't normally affect. That is, I fire my EB at the ground at my feet;
> I am not affected by the EB. I fire my AoE EB at the ground at my feet; I
> *AM* affected by the EB because of the AoE advantage (unless I have
another
> advantage that says otherwise).
That doesn't really answer my question. An EB isn't a power that can't
normally affect a certain character.
Alan
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 01:21:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Automata
>> I'd say this is a problem with the vehicle cost, not the automaton one,
>> however. As I noted, the increase in the automaton defense cost makes
>> perfect sense when you realize all they care about is Body, and it's
>> approximately three times as hard to do Body to something in the game as
Stun.
>
>All vehicles worry about is body also. They do not have PD and ED they
>simply have DEF. A point of DEF cost 3 points and is resistant. A vehicle
That's why I said it's the vehicle one that's broken.
>takes damage just like an automaton which pays for the 45 point version
>of the Takes No Stun power. So for game balance, either the cost for
>automaton armor needs to be reduced (and brought in line with the costs of
>all other defenses) or we need to raise the price of all other defenses to
>bring it in line with the costs of the automaton defenses. Personally, I
>think its easier to fix the Automaton rules rather then change all the others.
I think it'd be more _appropriate_ to fix the ones on vehicles, since it's
the one that is currently abusive, not the automaton ones. My observation
has been that the automaton one is about right; without it, Takes No Stun is
way too good an ability for it's points.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:48:07 CDT
From: Dr Suess <championmush@hotmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Arcangel Ortiz <cptpatriot@mindspring.com>
>To: Champions List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Date: Saturday, June 12, 1999 10:10 PM
>Subject: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>
>
> >The question is:
> >
> >If a character has the following power:
> > Teleport 10" Mass Limit of 800 kg
> > Area Effect, Radius(+1)
> >
> >What does this allow the character to do?
> >
> >I say that it allows the character to teleport 800 kg from within the
>area
> >effect, while my friend says that the character can teleport 800 kg from
> >each hex.
> >
> >What do you think?
>
My first impression is that you can draw 800 KG total mass which, rather
than touch you, can be anywhere in the radius.
But then I got to thinking.
If you take a 3D6 NND in a Radius, it doesn't share the damage, each person
there takes it. Same for a 2D6 Entangle in a Radius: Everyone in there has
her own personal entangle, not just one big one.
SO, it stands to reason that the Teleport, purchased that way, would allow
you to transport yourself and all targets in the radius effect that weigh
800 KG or less apiece. A little better would be limiting it to 800 KG per
hex. I'd *probably* make you purchase it as 'Usable Against Others' or the
like, but, honestly, I'm not sure. More to dwell upon. :)
_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: 13 Jun 1999 09:40:04 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
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* "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> on Fri, 11 Jun 1999
| All right. Why does the mage with the magic wand get Personal Immunity
| for free?
When did I ever say anything of the sort?
What I did say is that *NORMALLY* a person does not use powers offensively
against himself. That does not mean you are immune to your own Energy
Blast; it means that you will not attack yourself with it except under
extremely unusual circumstances.
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 06:41:11 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Char: Exterminators
At 05:45 PM 6/12/1999 GMT, David Graham wrote:
>
>>At 04:58 AM 6/12/1999 GMT, David Graham wrote:
>> >I am looking for a group of characters from the now out of print Alien
>> >Enemies book called the Exterminators (or something like that).
>>Basically,
>> >this is a group of young kids who hang around and hunt UFO's. If anyone
>>has
>> >copies of their sheets that they could scan as plain text and send along,
>>it
>> >would be much appreciated. Posting to the list is acceptable, as some of
>> >you other subscribers might be able to use these characters in your own
>> >campaigns.
>>
>> Actually:
>> 1. Alien Enemies may be out of print, but it isn't out of stock. I'm
>>pretty sure that you can still get it from Gold Rush Games, or through the
>>WebRPG online store, if not both.
>
>I've checked the Hero Plus catalog, the same one where you buy all the
>Ultimate books and such, as well as the Hero Games Web site. Not seeing the
>book in either of those places gave me the impression it was pretty much out
>of stock.
I'd encourage you to check the other two areas I mentioned above. It
suffers from horribly (and, given the author, surprisingly) poor
organization, but if one can get past that it includes some of the
company's best material.
>> 2. It would be highly illegal, as a blatant copyright violation, for
>>anyone to do as you just asked. (This, unfortunately, makes it somewhat
>>illegal for you to even ask, though I doubt you'd be prosecuted in this
>>case for soliciting a crime since copyright violation is mainly a Federal
>>civil offense.)
>
>Goes to show how ignorant of copyright laws I am. For the record, there was
>no intention to make profit on these sheets. I simply needed them for a
>campaign, and saw no other way I could get them. Believe me, I would be
>more than happy to just buy the dang book myself. The problem is finding a
>copy.
As (I think) Geoff mentioned, whether you make a profit off it is
secondary to the issue of copyright violation. The real issue, as far as
the law is concerned, is whether the copyright owners make a profit off it.
When unauthorized copies are made, that cuts into the money that the
copyright owners would make. Even if the work is out of print, this makes
it less likely that it will go back into print, and still hurts the
copyright owners.
It's also a common fallacy that making copies like this is OK if the
original is out of print. It's actually only a less serious violation, but
still a violation; current US copyright law keeps any work protected until
50 years after the author's death, unless it's explicitly donated to the
public domain.
As I say, one copy for personal use isn't likely to cause any major
stink. But let's honor our creative people and not take from them.
(On the other hand, one might be able to write to the copyright holder
and ask for official permission to make a copy, offering to pay the amount
of money that would be made from the sale of the item, and see what kind of
response there is.)
>> 3. The Exterminators are not "young kids," unless you're 90 years old
>>and see anyone with color still in their hair that way. The youngest,
>>Trekkie, is in her mid-twenties, and the rest are in their thirties and
>>older. One, Bruiser, is a Vietnam vet.
>
>Well, all I even knew about them is what someone else told me. And even
>then, I didn't exactly write it all down. So it goes to show how ignorant I
>am of certain other facts. :(
It's a good book, and they're a fun team to work with. A bunch of
fanatics with incredibly destructive weapons -- kinda like the
Ghostbusters, but with a passionate dedication.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 06:41:37 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Steve Austin
At 06:06 PM 6/12/1999 -0400, Daniel P. Pawtowski wrote:
>>
>> Yup. I think the cells were described as the same ones used in
>> satellites.
>>
> Not that these 'nuclear cells' that appeared on the show bear the
>slightest resemblance to the nuclear power supplies used by actual
>space hardware. But then, what the heck, it was a 4-color TV show.
Actually, this is something different than "four-color TV," which I'd
limit to those shows based on DC and Marvel characters -- even then
excepting "The Incredible Hulk," and possibly the original "Superman"
series -- along with MANTIS and the TV version of Robocop. "The Greatest
American Hero" and "The Green Hornet" are two other borderline cases.
Hulk and Austin, along with the Man from Atlantis, the Misfits of
Science, and most other originally-made-for-TV superpowered people
(certainly any that I can think of), are what I call "human-level" heroes.
While they have powers beyond those of normal men, they dress in street
clothes, and their enemies are generally normals (normal, that is, when
compared with the superpowered or at least costumed foes generally fought
by their "four-color" compatriots).
"The Greatest American Hero," "The Green Hornet," and the original
"Superman" are borderline cases because the title characters wore costumes
and maintained Secret Identities, but otherwise lived their lives and
pursued their caseload like human-level heroes.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 06:26:52 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Summon: Summoned Creatures and Disadvantages
At 11:40 AM 6/12/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> Do the Disadvantages of Summon Creatures count against the total
>points that is required to summon them?
I just checked the HSR, and sure enough, it's not really clear on this
question.
I've generally played that they do not.
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 06:31:25 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
At 01:06 AM 6/13/1999 -0400, Arcangel Ortiz wrote:
>The question is:
>
>If a character has the following power:
> Teleport 10" Mass Limit of 800 kg
> Area Effect, Radius(+1)
>
>What does this allow the character to do?
>
>I say that it allows the character to teleport 800 kg from within the area
>effect, while my friend says that the character can teleport 800 kg from
>each hex.
>
>What do you think?
I'm with you on this one. The *total* mass is 800kg, and it can be
anywhere in the affected area. (Just offhand, without Selective Area I'd
make a general rule that mass closer to the center is Teleported before
mass closer to the edge, but that's just me.)
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 06:34:34 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
At 07:48 AM 6/13/1999 CDT, Dr Suess wrote:
>
>My first impression is that you can draw 800 KG total mass which, rather
>than touch you, can be anywhere in the radius.
>
>But then I got to thinking.
>
>If you take a 3D6 NND in a Radius, it doesn't share the damage, each person
>there takes it. Same for a 2D6 Entangle in a Radius: Everyone in there has
>her own personal entangle, not just one big one.
In this case, too, the inches of movement aren't being shared;
everything within the area moves 10".
>SO, it stands to reason that the Teleport, purchased that way, would allow
>you to transport yourself and all targets in the radius effect that weigh
>800 KG or less apiece. A little better would be limiting it to 800 KG per
>hex. I'd *probably* make you purchase it as 'Usable Against Others' or the
>like, but, honestly, I'm not sure. More to dwell upon. :)
Yeah, I too think that UAO would be a more logical construct for this
case; but I get the impression that the construct as given was a
hypothetical example to settle a difference in rules interpretation and not
necessarily how the Power was written up on a character sheet.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:49:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Songs to supers...
It just struck me that the winner in the "songs to supers" contest is Blue
Oyster Cult. I mena, how do you compete with "Black Blade" (Elric),
"Veteran of the Psychic Wars", "Me262" and (of course) "Godzilla".
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I must say that I find television very educational.
The minute somebody turns it on, I go to the library
and read a book.
Groucho Marx
------------------------------
Date: 13 Jun 1999 09:53:04 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
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* "Arcangel Ortiz" <cptpatriot@mindspring.com> on Sun, 13 Jun 1999
| What do you think?
Neither. Teleportation is a self-only power unless it is bought Usable By
or Against Others.
If hey pays for UAO, he can use his Teleportation offensively. In that
case, consider this: a 6D6 EB with AoE Radius hits everything in the area
with 6D6 damage. So it stands to reason that any object in the area with a
mass of 800kg or less would be affected by the Teleportation.
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:10:02 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
At 09:40 AM 6/13/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
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>
>* "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> on Fri, 11 Jun 1999
>| All right. Why does the mage with the magic wand get Personal Immunity
>| for free?
>
>When did I ever say anything of the sort?
>
>What I did say is that *NORMALLY* a person does not use powers offensively
>against himself. That does not mean you are immune to your own Energy
>Blast; it means that you will not attack yourself with it except under
>extremely unusual circumstances.
Why did this particular point come up in a discussion on whether a
character's Powers can affect himself?
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:11:21 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
At 09:53 AM 6/13/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
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>
>* "Arcangel Ortiz" <cptpatriot@mindspring.com> on Sun, 13 Jun 1999
>| What do you think?
>
>Neither. Teleportation is a self-only power unless it is bought Usable By
>or Against Others.
Teleportation can be used to bring others along, at no range.
Otherwise, what's the Extra Mass adder for?
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:28:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
On 13 Jun 1999, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> * "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> on Fri, 11 Jun 1999
> | All right. Why does the mage with the magic wand get Personal Immunity
> | for free?
>
> When did I ever say anything of the sort?
When you said that you would not allow someone with Transfer to use it
against themselves.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: 13 Jun 1999 10:45:48 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
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* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Sun, 13 Jun 1999
| Why did this particular point come up in a discussion on whether a
| character's Powers can affect himself?
This discussion was never about whether or not a character's powers can
affect himself. The discussion is about "swapping stats" and the power(s)
best suited to it, and why Transfer is not an appropriate power, not
because Transfer will not work (it certainly will if it is reflected
(assuming it can be reflected)), but because use of Transfer is normally an
offensive action and people do not normally attack themselves.
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------------------------------
Date: 13 Jun 1999 10:53:12 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
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* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Sun, 13 Jun 1999
| Teleportation can be used to bring others along, at no range.
| Otherwise, what's the Extra Mass adder for?
Extra Mass is for taking things or people with you when you use
Teleportation. If you want to Teleport things other than yourself, you
must have Usable By/Against Others, regardless of how much Extra Mass you
might be able to move.
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:27:37 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
At 09:49 AM 6/13/1999 -0400, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>It just struck me that the winner in the "songs to supers" contest is Blue
>Oyster Cult. I mena, how do you compete with "Black Blade" (Elric),
>"Veteran of the Psychic Wars", "Me262" and (of course) "Godzilla".
You have a point, though some argument could be made as to whether or not
all of the above actually fall into the "supers" genre. If super just
means 'requiring a large number of points to build', then sure; if it's
mainly concerned with comic-book type characters, I'd eliminate Elric --
even though he's had his own comic, and appeared in "Conan" -- because I
don't consider sword & sorcery to be part of the "supers" genre. I've
never heard "Me262", and am not familiar enough with "Veteran of the
Psychic Wars" to be sure about those.
Other random supers references in popular songs...
"Magneto & Titanium Man" (Paul McCartney & Wings)
"Iron Man" (Black Sabbath, though no relation to the familiar comics
character)
"...you don't tug on Superman's cape..." (Jim Croce)
"Wish I could fly like Superman..." (The Kinks)
"Superman and Green Lantern ain't got nothin' on me..." (Donovan)
"It's gonna take a Superman to sweep me off my feet" (Bonnie Tyler)
That last one, "Holding Out for A Hero" was co-written by Jim Steinman (who
wrote a lot of Meat Loaf's material), and is full of comic book hero
imagery; to a lesser extent, so is "Calling All Honest Men" by ELO Part II.
Lyrics to "Holding Out For A Hero":]
Where have all the good men gone
And where are all the gods?
Where's the street-wise Hercules
To fight the rising odds?
Isn't there a white knight upon a fiery steed?
Late at night I toss and turn and dream of what I need
I need a hero
I'm holding out for a hero 'til the end of the night
He's gotta be strong
And he's gotta fast
And he's gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a hero
I'm holding out for a hero 'til the morning light
He's gotta be sure
And it's gotta soon
And he's gotta be larger than life
Somewhere after midnight
In my wildest fantasy
Somewhere just beyond my reach
There's someone reaching back for me
Racing on the thunder and rising with the heat
It's gonna take a superman to sweep me off feet
(chorus)
Up where the mountains meet the heavens above
Out where the lightning strikes the sea
I would swear that there's someone somewhere
Watching me
Through the wind and the chill and the rain
And the storm and the flood
I can feel his approach
Like the fire in my blood
(chorus)
Damon
------------------------------
Date: 13 Jun 1999 12:46:17 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
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* "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net> on Sun, 13 Jun 1999
| I've never heard "Me262",
Me-262 is about the Messerschmit Me-262, the first production jet warplane
in the world. It was used by Germany during World War II to bomb England
during the later stages of the war.
| and am not familiar enough with "Veteran of the Psychic Wars" to be sure
| about those.
"The Veteran of the Psychic Wars" is one of Blue Öyster Cult's most
depressing songs. It is the lament of a veteran of a series of wars in
which nanotechnic/psionic weapons have left him a total wreck:
You see me now, a veteran of a thousand psychic wars
My energy is spent at last and my armor is destroyed
I have used up all my weapons and I'm helpless and bereaved
Wounds are all I'm made of
Did I hear you say that this is victory?
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:30:04 -0400
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
At 10:27 AM 6/13/99 -0500, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
>Other random supers references in popular songs...
>
>"Magneto & Titanium Man" (Paul McCartney & Wings)
>"Iron Man" (Black Sabbath, though no relation to the familiar comics
>character)
>"...you don't tug on Superman's cape..." (Jim Croce)
>"Wish I could fly like Superman..." (The Kinks)
>"Superman and Green Lantern ain't got nothin' on me..." (Donovan)
>"It's gonna take a Superman to sweep me off my feet" (Bonnie Tyler)
>
also ...
"Superman's Daughter" (Sawyer Brown)
"The Man of Steel Done Melted Down" (Hank Williams, Jr.)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:35:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Brats Incorporated <brat-inc@avalon.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Sun, 13 Jun 1999
>| Teleportation can be used to bring others along, at no range.
>| Otherwise, what's the Extra Mass adder for?
>
>Extra Mass is for taking things or people with you when you use
>Teleportation. If you want to Teleport things other than yourself, you
>must have Usable By/Against Others, regardless of how much Extra Mass you
>might be able to move.
I total disagree with this one. You do not need UAO to teleport someone else.
UAO is only used if you are teleporting someone against their will.
Per BBB Pg. 87
EXAMPLE: Chesire Cate has 20" of Teleportation. For +5 Character Points in
Teleportation, Chesire Cat could teleport himself and some other person he
was touching.For 10 points, he could teleport himself and 3 other people he
was touching.
Visit us at http://www.avalon.net/~brat-inc/ ....
"In the words of Socrates... I drank what?" ... Real Genius
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:20:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Char: Exterminators
> It's also a common fallacy that making copies like this is OK if the
>original is out of print. It's actually only a less serious violation, but
>still a violation; current US copyright law keeps any work protected until
>50 years after the author's death, unless it's explicitly donated to the
>public domain.
While not legal, it is a remarkably silly law that is rather routinely
ignored. I'm generally quite respectful of intellectual property laws, but
I can't say I have much respect for this one.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:24:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Sun, 13 Jun 1999
>| Teleportation can be used to bring others along, at no range.
>| Otherwise, what's the Extra Mass adder for?
>
>Extra Mass is for taking things or people with you when you use
>Teleportation. If you want to Teleport things other than yourself, you
>must have Usable By/Against Others, regardless of how much Extra Mass you
>might be able to move.
Okay, let's rephrase it then; you buy the Area Effect but it only works to
bring the things within X Radius with you when you Teleport yourself. Now
what happens?
I tend to run toward the idea that the Radius will get anything within the
area up to your mass limit, but that's less than clear.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:07:58 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Arcangel Ortiz wrote:
> The question is:
>
> If a character has the following power:
> Teleport 10" Mass Limit of 800 kg
> Area Effect, Radius(+1)
>
> What does this allow the character to do?
>
> I say that it allows the character to teleport 800 kg from within the area
> effect, while my friend says that the character can teleport 800 kg from
> each hex.
>
> What do you think?
My opinion, the character can teleport up to 800 KGs of mass from
anywhere within the radius. I don't see it as being 800 KGs from
each hex.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:20:10 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Automata
Wayne Shaw wrote:
> >> I'd say this is a problem with the vehicle cost, not the automaton one,
> >> however. As I noted, the increase in the automaton defense cost makes
> >> perfect sense when you realize all they care about is Body, and it's
> >> approximately three times as hard to do Body to something in the game as
> Stun.
> >
> >All vehicles worry about is body also. They do not have PD and ED they
> >simply have DEF. A point of DEF cost 3 points and is resistant. A vehicle
>
> That's why I said it's the vehicle one that's broken.
>
> >takes damage just like an automaton which pays for the 45 point version
> >of the Takes No Stun power. So for game balance, either the cost for
> >automaton armor needs to be reduced (and brought in line with the costs of
> >all other defenses) or we need to raise the price of all other defenses to
> >bring it in line with the costs of the automaton defenses. Personally, I
> >think its easier to fix the Automaton rules rather then change all the others.
>
> I think it'd be more _appropriate_ to fix the ones on vehicles, since it's
> the one that is currently abusive, not the automaton ones. My observation
> has been that the automaton one is about right; without it, Takes No Stun is
> way too good an ability for it's points.
This is where we disagree. I don't find the vehicle rules to be a problem.
That's why I altered the Automata rules to fit with Vehicle rules. Wayne would
make the exact opposite alteration, fine. I geuss we will have to agree to
disagree on this one until something difinitive comes from Herogames.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:58:19 -0700
From: James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
> >What I did say is that *NORMALLY* a person does not use powers offensively
> >against himself. That does not mean you are immune to your own Energy
> >Blast; it means that you will not attack yourself with it except under
> >extremely unusual circumstances.
>
> Why did this particular point come up in a discussion on whether a
> character's Powers can affect himself?
Because what's at issue here is whether or not the Transfer can be used
on oneself as a matter of course. Rat is saying that it can't, buy the
powers that are appropriate for it. While you might find yourself on
rare occasions deciding to use your attack power on yourself to
accomplish specific tasks, which is acceptable, if you are going to do
it all the time a different power construct should be purchased.
Which is not to say I completely agree with the position, but that's not
what you asked.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:04:16 -0700
From: James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
> >Neither. Teleportation is a self-only power unless it is bought Usable By
> >or Against Others.
>
> Teleportation can be used to bring others along, at no range.
> Otherwise, what's the Extra Mass adder for?
If you buy it without Usable Against Others, you must carry the
passenger with you when you teleport, and probably need to have Grabbed
a resisting target (the Area may nullify that need, though). With Usable
Against Others, you don't need to go yourself unless you are in the area
of effect.
With just Area Effect, it could very well be argued that you can only
carry a total of the mass you have bought. This is because that's the
way the base power normally works, and Area Effect could be viewed as
not changing that aspect of the power. With UAO, since it causes the
power to work as though the target is using it but has no control, and
Area you should be teleporting everything in the area that masses less
than 800 kg.
As always, that's open to interpretation.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:44:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
On 13 Jun 1999, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> Me-262 is about the Messerschmit Me-262, the first production jet warplan=
e
> in the world. It was used by Germany during World War II to bomb England
> during the later stages of the war.
I thought it was a jet fighter, not a bomber. (Germany *did* have
dedicated jet bombers as well)
=20
> | and am not familiar enough with "Veteran of the Psychic Wars" to be sur=
e
> | about those.
>=20
> "The Veteran of the Psychic Wars" is one of Blue =D6yster Cult's most
> depressing songs. It is the lament of a veteran of a series of wars in
> which nanotechnic/psionic weapons have left him a total wreck:
>=20
> You see me now, a veteran of a thousand psychic wars
> My energy is spent at last and my armor is destroyed
> I have used up all my weapons and I'm helpless and bereaved
> Wounds are all I'm made of
> Did I hear you say that this is victory?
Co-written by Michael Moorcock (who also helped on Black Blade).
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
=09"Does this planet have a never-ending supply of weird stuff!"
=09=09=09 Susano Orbatos, _Orion_
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:57:45 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> * "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net> on Sun, 13 Jun 1999
> | I've never heard "Me262",
>
> Me-262 is about the Messerschmit Me-262, the first production jet warplane
> in the world. It was used by Germany during World War II to bomb England
> during the later stages of the war.
The ME-262 was a jet fighter. Hitler wanted it to be a bomber, which slowed
it's development. There was a jet bomber (I can't remember the designation)
that was produced in very small numbers. I'm not even sure if it went on
any missions.
- ----
And now back to song titles:
Other BOC songs:
Nosferatu, Flaming Telepaths, Harvester of Eyes, and The
Revenge of Vera Gemini.
And Career of Evil works as a theme song for some villains.
The album Imaginos can be used for a Justice Inc or even a modern
game with some work.
Other artists:
Kate Bush - Rubberband Girl, Experiment IV, Hammer Horror
Lard - Forkboy
Lene Lovich - Telepathy
REM - Orange Crush (I don't know why...)
They might be Giants - Particle Man
Warren Zevon - Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner, Mr Bad Example
Superman themed:
Spin Doctors - Jimmy Olsen Blues
I used to have a ton of villains where just the name was used for
the character. And then there were the plots inspired by songs.
In college we had a bunch of parody songs based off our characters
or campaigns.
- -Mark Lemming
"Some shoot at the peasants, some shoot at the cat." - Hotel Dread
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:08:33 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
At 10:45 AM 6/13/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Sun, 13 Jun 1999
>| Why did this particular point come up in a discussion on whether a
>| character's Powers can affect himself?
>
>This discussion was never about whether or not a character's powers can
>affect himself. The discussion is about "swapping stats" and the power(s)
>best suited to it, and why Transfer is not an appropriate power, not
>because Transfer will not work (it certainly will if it is reflected
>(assuming it can be reflected)), but because use of Transfer is normally an
>offensive action and people do not normally attack themselves.
The problem with the logic there is that there are many more reasons in
adventure fiction for someone to turn an attack on themselves than there
are in real life. Leah just listed several cases, in both real life and
fiction, where someone found a good reason (or at least what seemed to them
like one) to do just such a thing.
Also, whether such an action is normal or not isn't really germane to
the discussion of whether Transfer is appropriate for the effect in
question. If the dynamic of how Transfer aimed at oneself works best
represents what the player (or the creator of the character, at any rate)
is looking for, then that should be what's used.
Personally, for a transfer from END to END Battery, I'd probably just
use Aid END Battery with an appropriately increased END Cost; the mechanics
and dynamics of this is nearly identical to Transfer (depending on the
specifics). That's harder to work, though, for a construct where (for
instance) the switch of stats is from INT to STR.
Now, I suppose one could always make an INT-to-STR switch with a
Multipower by placing Limitations on it like "Costs END to switch to STR,"
"Points Return to INT at rate of 5/Turn," and so forth. But why go through
all that hassle, when Transfer INT to STR, Self Only will do basically the
same thing?
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:11:52 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Char: Exterminators
At 12:20 PM 6/13/1999 -0700, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>> It's also a common fallacy that making copies like this is OK if the
>>original is out of print. It's actually only a less serious violation, but
>>still a violation; current US copyright law keeps any work protected until
>>50 years after the author's death, unless it's explicitly donated to the
>>public domain.
>
>While not legal, it is a remarkably silly law that is rather routinely
>ignored. I'm generally quite respectful of intellectual property laws, but
>I can't say I have much respect for this one.
I have a problem with it as well (though not as much as you apparently
do); I'd prefer that, at the least, some reasonable accomodation be made to
allow personal copies to be made with the appropriate royalties paid to the
owners.
(This is usually a fairly small amount; I understand, for example, that
the artistic talent on a typical 12-song music CD typically gets paid
around $1.70 per copy. In this case, it'd be the amount of net profit that
Hero Games would make from the sale of a copy, plus whatever they'd have to
pay Scott Heine and/or the artists on the book.
Even so, I'm saying that as an author with no works of of print.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #392
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Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 04:13 PM