Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 394
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 12:01 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #394
champ-l-digest Monday, June 14 1999 Volume 01 : Number 394
In this issue:
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Automata
Re: Char: Exterminators
Re: Char: Exterminators/Alien Enemies found
Re: Char: Exterminators
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Swapping stats (Rat remix)
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Songs to supers...
Re: Super's songs...
RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Swapping stats (Rat remix)
Re: Songs to supers...
Re: Songs to supers...
Re: Songs to supers...
Re: Songs to supers...
Re: Super's songs...
Re: Super's songs...
RE: Songs to supers...
Re: Swapping stats (Rat remix)
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Swapping stats (Rat remix)
RE: Songs to supers...
RE: Songs to supers...
Re: Swapping stats (Rat remix)
RE: Songs to supers...
Re: Songs to supers...
RE: Songs to supers...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:18:24 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
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> * GAZZA <gazza@wantree.com.au> on Mon, 07 Jun 1999
> | Just because it says "opponent"? So you can't Drain yourself
either?
>
> Exactly.
"I throw the net over myself."
"You can't, you aren't your opponent."
"OK, I blind myself with my laser!"
"You can't, you aren't your opponent."
Sorry. I don't buy it.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:18:50 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
<snip>
> Does the loose cannon cop shoot herself every chapter/episode as a
means to
> solving the case at hand? Do Klingons mutilate themselves every
episode?
> Do the followers of said religions mutilate (or whatever) themselves
every
> day? No, they do not. None of these are "normal" actions in the
Champions
> sense of normal: routine, commonplace, etc.
Absolutely correct.
I definitely agree that a Hulk-type character should not buy Transfer
INT to STR. It is a poor way to do it.
However, I do not understand why a man with, for example, a
Necromantic Ring of Destruction (a ring that grants EB and Transfer
BODY to EB) shouldn't, in desperate straits, be able to aim it at
himself to get the power needed to free his drowning companions from
the pit.
In other words, _if it is an unusual circumstance_, I don't think the
ring described above should be required to contain Aid + Side Effects
(which do not exactly mimic its ability to steal life-force from
others) just for such an unusual circumstance, any more than I think
that knives should contain Shapeshift powers to make you mutilated (or
Transformation to mutilate others).
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:25:36 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
<snip>
>
> AoE is a power modifier, which modifies the way the power functions.
In
> this case, he is not using the power on himself, he is standing in
the area
> of effect of the power and is thus automatically affected by it.
This is a
> facet of how AoE works, not the Drain.
So, if I chose to Drain myself, I can do it by buying AoE:1 hex on my
Drain? I cannot see how this is less unbalancing than simply aiming
the Drain at me. Nor can I, for the life of me, figure out why
Draining myself is unbalancing. If I somehow find a desperate
situation where I want to Drain myself, what could be the harm?
> | Let me see here. I can have increases in power in circumstance X.
I
> | can have decreases in power in circumstance X. But I can't have
both
> | without Multipower? Gee, that really screws up my wizard in that
> | Fantasy Hero game that doesn't allow constructs.
>
> Yup. Bitch at your GM.
You've got to be kidding. A player wants the Power in my game, and I
am required to either refuse (even though it is far from imbalancing
and forbidden nowhere in the rules), or I must redesign the rules of
the campaign and recommended guidelines to allow this one ability?
In case you haven't noticed, the _general guideline_ is not "A power
should not mimic another power, skill, power guideline, or
Disadvantage", it is "A power should not mimic another power." If I
forbid Multipowers in my campaign to prevent people from getting too
much for their points, also forbidding power constructs that simulate
the Multipower (without being unbalancing) for a lot more points seems
pointless and petty.
> | If it were a power in an Elemental Control, it would require I put
a
> | Multipower in an Elemental Control, also illegal.
>
> Aid Str, Side Effect: Drain Int.
So, I have a power, "1d6 Transfer BODY to EB", OIF Necromantic Ring of
Destruction. But, when trapped with no other source of energy, if I
want to use it on myself, I have to buy an entirely different Power,
"1d6 Aid EB, Side Effect: Drain BODY". Then, of course, it does more
damage to me than to other people, so I must now throw in "Added BODY,
only for reducing the effect of the Ring to the equivallent of 1d6
BODY Drain", all for the purpose of allowing me to use the Ring on
myself in desperate circumstances (the only reasonable ones for such a
Power)? What a ridiculous cost for one of the least imbalancing
constructs I have ever seen.
> | Your argument, even if it were valid, still wouldn't apply to your
> | claim you can't Drain yourself. Or explain why you can Aid
yourself
> | when you can't Drain or Transfer on yourself.
>
> So, you really wouldn't mind me using Transform on myself, either?
Rules specifically forbade it. It mimics _two_ other Powers, Multiform
and Shapeshift. And it is potentially horrendously imbalancing.
That's three things against it that using my offensive Drain on myself
does not have. It is not specifically forbidden by the rules. It
doesn't mimic _two_ other Powers, it, at most, mimics one _Power
Framework_ (which are all optional). Lastly, you have yet to show me a
single imbalancing example of this Power.
> [...]
> | 1) It still duplicates the effect of Multipower. Therefore, by
your
> | argument, forbidden.
>
> Huh? Transform vs Aid + Drain does not duplicate Multipower, since
> Multipower has no effect whatsoever on someone else.
I cannot determine what this means. What does Transform have to do
with it, anyway, and what is a Transform vs Aid?
> | 2) The similarities are so great that I cannot see why one should
be
> | allowed and the other forbidden.
>
> That is exactly why "the other" is forbidden: Aid + Drain used this
way
> is specifically to duplicate the effects of Transfer.
Which you have already forbidden. So, if another Power is bought to
simulate a forbidden (but otherwise worthwhile) use of a Power, it is
also forbidden? This would mean that Shapeshift should be forbidden
outright, as well as a host of reasonable constructs.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:50:40 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
> * "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com> on Tue, 08 Jun 1999
> | Could you give a more detailed example? I'm afraid I don't see
what
> | you're getting at.
>
> 2D6 HKA (steel claws) + 2D6 RKA (electrified claws). I luck out and
roll
> 12 Body and a 6 on the Stun multiplier on the HKA. That's 12 Body
twice
> and 60 Stun twice. Mathematically, you are giving a 1:46656 event
the same
> probability as a 1:216 event.
Roll 1 BODY and a 1 STUN. Same rule applies. It tends to balance
itself.
Though I still wouldn't allow it, typically. But then, I never liked
the STUN lotto, either.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 02:39:55 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com>
Subject: Re: Automata
From: Dave Mattingly <dave@haymaker.win.net>
> Can a full automaton (60 points, takes only body) sell off CON, EGO,
REC,
> and STUN to 0? (Yes, I know that you can only sell off one figred
char, but
> these stats don't need to be greater than 0). Or does being a
non-stunnable
> automaton nullify the STUN stat?
Automatons which take only STUN have no STUN to sell off. Page 181 of
the BBB specifically forbids this under the description of the Power.
EGO is the same. As for CON and REC, you could, but you might find one
day that you need them, particularly if you forget to buy various Life
Supports, Regeneration, and similar abilities.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:10:41 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Char: Exterminators
At 10:16 PM 6/13/1999 -0700, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>
>I certainly wouldn't have a problem with forwarding some fee to the owner of
>the copywrite. Though with many of that sort of thing (the long out of
>print) he or she might be quite a trick to locate. But I'll bluntly and
>freely admit that for items I'm using for reference purposes (such as most
>game rules are), if I know something is out of print and have no reason to
>believe it will return to print in any reasonable rate, I'll copy for
>personal use without a moment's qualm.
Copying for your own personal use is not illegal at all. By "personal
copies" I was referring to a book's owner making an extra copy for someone
else.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:11:36 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Char: Exterminators/Alien Enemies found
At 11:20 PM 6/13/1999 -0500, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
>While it is *possible* all three stores have sold out of the book, and
>haven't updated their listing yet, I found all three of these listings in
>under five minutes of searching, less than ten minutes ago, so it shouldn't
>be hard to turn up more listings if necessary. You don't appear to have
>tried very hard to locate it.
I wouldn't criticize him on this last point. A lot of people are
unaware that such places even exist. (I didn't, until fairly recently.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:27:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: arcus@webtv.net (chrisopher spoor)
Subject: Re: Char: Exterminators
With So much out of print, most of which is Third edition or earlier.
Wouldn't it be nice if The Powers That Be gave permission for an
Official Webpage to update them to 5th Edition.
Why yes I do believe in miracles. :) On a more realistic angle how about
a series of updates in Digital Hero?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:29:28 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
>Bob, will said detective deliberately shoot himself?
He won't
will, if he's depressed
a character in a certain Niven story :)
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:42:44 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats (Rat remix)
Bear with me a minute:
>When did I ever say that he was immune?
Right here (sorta):
>That is, I fire my EB at the ground at my feet;
>I am not affected by the EB.
A quick reader would see "at my feet", assume you meant the character was
firing at himself and not the ground, hence Immunity.
>What I did say is that *NORMALLY* a person does not use powers offensively
>against himself. That does not mean you are immune to your own Energy
>Blast; it means that you will not attack yourself with it except under
>extremely unusual circumstances.
I think the point is, how is this expressed in the game? If I buy Energy
Blast and Absorption with the intent of shooting myself to get power (go
with me a moment and assume this is being done as an abuse), the GM
shouldn't disallow the EB, he should disallow the Absorption.
Or, there's no rule in the HERO System which restricts when or how often
you can shoot yourself. :)
>The way the Hero system works, if you come up with a clever misuse of a
>power to resolve a situation, such as using Transfer on yourself to
>increase your Strength so as to survive a deathtrap, the GM should let you
>get away with it. But if you _always_ want to have that additional
>Strength, you must pay points for it. Having Transfer, which is not
>normally used on oneself, is *NOT* paying for additional Strength.
Ah, finally a real argument. :)
>But if you _always_ want to have that additional
>Strength, you must pay points for it.
I don't think that using Transfer in this situation is always abusive. The
character is paying points for the Transfer, and must invoke an Instant
Power to enact the Transfer. Also, the character is losing something as a
cost of gaining the STR; in a way, this is /worse/ than a normal Transfer,
which is intended to hurt an opponent while helping yourself.
That said, the power clearly could be made abusive in a couple ways. He
could buy the fade rate / max points way up, so the character has a
permanent stat boost; the player could design the character so that he has
plenty of whatever is being Drained, and that losing some doesn't matter.
Next time Rat, skip the silly sidetrack questions and get to your main
point; you'll piss off a lot fewer people that way. :)
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 1999 09:44:40 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
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* "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
| However, I do not understand why a man with, for example, a
| Necromantic Ring of Destruction (a ring that grants EB and Transfer
| BODY to EB) shouldn't, in desperate straits, be able to aim it at
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dire straits is not "normal circumstances".
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 1999 09:46:24 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
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* James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
| However, at no time in the original post did he mention that the fellow
| teleporting would not be going along, so this passage has nothing to do
| with it.
Nor did he mention that he would. But given what was said, it seemed more
an attack ability than a movement ability, and I treated it as such.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 1999 09:47:04 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
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* Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> on Sun, 13 Jun 1999
| > Stormbird.
| Who or what is that?
The English translation of "Sturmvogel", one of the three Me-262 variants.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ of skin.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:48:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: Super's songs...
Does anybody know the song & group these lyrics are from ?
"To all superheroes all over the world,
this is Captain America calling.
I helped you out when you were down on
your knees,
so won't you catch me now I'm falling."
Curt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:51:34 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
But Rat, to paraphrase you, there's no such thing as an attack ability.
] Nor did he mention that he would. But given what was said,
] it seemed more
] an attack ability than a movement ability, and I treated it as such.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:59:58 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
>| However, I do not understand why a man with, for example, a
>| Necromantic Ring of Destruction (a ring that grants EB and Transfer
>| BODY to EB) shouldn't, in desperate straits, be able to aim it at
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Dire straits is not "normal circumstances".
Sure, but this is like the player who wants to buy a 20d6 Energy Blast, but
only for when he really needs it. Situational discretion over whether or
not to use the power is up to the player, not the GM. If the GM doesn't
want the player using a power in a certainly way, it's up to him to make
that clear and either make a ruling or grant a Limitation. Since the rules
allow Transfer to work on oneself, the GM would have to say "I don't want
you doing that".
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 06:55:56 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats (Rat remix)
At 09:42 AM 6/14/1999 -0400, Geoff Speare wrote:
>
>>The way the Hero system works, if you come up with a clever misuse of a
>>power to resolve a situation, such as using Transfer on yourself to
>>increase your Strength so as to survive a deathtrap, the GM should let you
>>get away with it. But if you _always_ want to have that additional
>>Strength, you must pay points for it. Having Transfer, which is not
>>normally used on oneself, is *NOT* paying for additional Strength.
>
>Ah, finally a real argument. :)
Such as it is.
To my mind, if a character has already paid for an Aid or Transfer to
STR, making that character also pay separately for the bonus STR from that
Aid or Transfer is double-charging.
>>But if you _always_ want to have that additional
>>Strength, you must pay points for it.
>
>I don't think that using Transfer in this situation is always abusive. The
>character is paying points for the Transfer, and must invoke an Instant
>Power to enact the Transfer. Also, the character is losing something as a
>cost of gaining the STR; in a way, this is /worse/ than a normal Transfer,
>which is intended to hurt an opponent while helping yourself.
>
>That said, the power clearly could be made abusive in a couple ways. He
>could buy the fade rate / max points way up, so the character has a
>permanent stat boost; the player could design the character so that he has
>plenty of whatever is being Drained, and that losing some doesn't matter.
It's hard to find something in the rules that *can't* be abused. By the
same token, it's easy to find unusual ways to apply things that can easily
be abused, which aren't abusive.
>Next time Rat, skip the silly sidetrack questions and get to your main
>point; you'll piss off a lot fewer people that way. :)
He's been told that before.... also to explain his full logic on things
that others aren't "getting," so discourses that would normally take a day
or two don't end up taking a week and a half. Watch him ignore it again.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:15:53 -0500
From: "Michael Nunn" <mlnunn@scrtc.com>
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
While I am a huge BOC fan, and saw them just recently, I would have to add
KISS into the SuperHero song contest.
These are the song titles I used to create one of my most enduring villain
teams;
God Of Thunder
Dr. Love
Mr. Speed
Plaster Caster
Black Diamond
Parasite
And then a second less effective group:
Hooligan
Strutter
Charisma
Deuce
She
Mainline
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:18:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
> From: "Michael Nunn" <mlnunn@scrtc.com>
>
I'm not familiar with the songs, but I can guess what types of characters
some of these are from just the name.
But how about Dr. Love / Plaster Caster / Black Diamond / Parasite
/She / Mainline ?
Curt Hicks
> These are the song titles I used to create one of my most enduring villain
> teams;
>
> God Of Thunder
> Dr. Love
> Mr. Speed
> Plaster Caster
> Black Diamond
> Parasite
>
> And then a second less effective group:
>
> Hooligan
> Strutter
> Charisma
> Deuce
> She
> Mainline
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:33:17 -0500
From: "Michael Nunn" <mlnunn@scrtc.com>
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
>I'm not familiar with the songs, but I can guess what types of characters
>some of these are from just the name.
>But how about Dr. Love / Plaster Caster / Black Diamond / Parasite
>/She / Mainline ?
>
>Curt Hicks
>
>> These are the song titles I used to create one of my most enduring
villain
>> teams;
>>
>> God Of Thunder Thor
>> Dr. Love Female Mentalist, causes men to fall in love
with her
>> Mr. Speed Speedster
>> Plaster Caster Entangled people
>> Black Diamond Indestructable mid range brick who reflected attacks
>> Parasite Able to mimic super powers
>>
>> And then a second less effective group:
>>
>> Hooligan Martial Artist
>> Strutter Used sonic screams/songs
>> Charisma Mentalist
>> Deuce Could duplicate
>> She Had darkness powers
>> Mainline Could control computers, wore a battle suit
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:37:55 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@inetnebr.com>
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
The song was co-written by Michael Moorcock as was Black Blade,... given
that, I am certain the literal interpretation was intended, psychic shell
shock/burnout in a super tech universe is just the kind of thing he'd write
about.
"Dr. Nuncheon" wrote:
> On 13 Jun 1999, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> > "The Veteran of the Psychic Wars" is one of Blue Öyster Cult's most
> > depressing songs. It is the lament of a veteran of a series of wars in
> > which nanotechnic/psionic weapons have left him a total wreck:
> >
> > You see me now, a veteran of a thousand psychic wars
> > My energy is spent at last and my armor is destroyed
> > I have used up all my weapons and I'm helpless and bereaved
> > Wounds are all I'm made of
> > Did I hear you say that this is victory?
>
> Heh. I guess I always favored a, um, less literal interpretation of the
> song. I always saw it as a kind of anti-love song about a relationship
> that turned to total hatred - the 'Psychic Wars' of the title. By the
> time she finally leaves him, he's an emotional wreck...
>
> But it could be the other way, too.
>
> J
>
> Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
> Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:03:30 PDT
From: Rick Edwards <rick_edwards@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Super's songs...
Also on the superheroic tip in hip-hop, Redman's series of (extremely funny)
"Sooperman Lova" songs. (Part I, II, III and IV)
Also, Jeru the Damaja's "Can't Stop the Prophet" and "Return of the Prophet"
A lot of hip-hop tunes would be really good for Dark Champions campaigns
too, for example Smif-N-Wessun's (now known as the Cocoa Brovas)
"Hellucination"
Hip-hop tends to come from a very personal point of view, so one could write
up a lot of different characters. Anyone looking for lyrics to the
aforementioned songs can e-mail me off list, or check The Original Hip-hop
Lyrics Archive at http://www.ohhla.com
Rip
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:15:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Super's songs...
On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Curt Hicks wrote:
> Does anybody know the song & group these lyrics are from ?
>
> "To all superheroes all over the world,
> this is Captain America calling.
> I helped you out when you were down on
> your knees,
> so won't you catch me now I'm falling."
The Kinks. "Captain America Calling"
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I'd say about twenty guns. Some on the surface, some on the towers."
Gold Five, _Star Wars_
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:26:55 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Songs to supers...
Songs for gaming, let me see...
There's a space rock band from England called Hawkwind that has a whole
albumn about Elric, called 'Warrior on the Edge of Time'. My buddy has =
a
video tape of one of their concerts called 'Chronicle of the Black =
Sword' in
which they play the whole album with actors/dancers pantomiming the =
plot
throughout, like some mad acid-induced ballet. They have this giant guy =
in a
white wig with a huge sword for Elric. Between the songs, out comes =
Moorcock
with crazy lighting to recite bits from the novel in his best big =
booming
dramatic voice. Very cool, in a nerdy sort of way.
Other Hawkwind songs relevant to this discussion include but are not =
limited
to Steppenwolf [this predates the band and is based on the werewolf =
novel of
the same name], Angel of Death, Assassins of Allah, Automoton, Chaos =
Army,
Children of the Sun, The Dark Lords, and tons of others from some 30 =
years
of recording at the cult following level. Check here..=20
http://www.conifersclose.freeserve.co.uk/hawkwind_songs.html
On Kiss' contribution on a fantasy level, we cannot forget 'The Elder', =
a
whole album or 'King of the Night Time World' from the Destroyer album.
Monster Magnet's older works are also jam packed with excellent =
fanasy/sf
references and megalomaniac rants. Some choice titles include Black
Mastermind, Ego the Living Planet, King of Mars and Superjudge. All =
hail the
bull god!=20
http://home.worldonline.nl/~caspers/mm_list.htm
There's an huge list of SF references in songs here...
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/music/sci-fi-refs/faq=
.htm
l
For an excellent electronica compilation double CD with lots of SF =
themes,
check out the Future Compilation, compiled by Gillian Anderson of =
X-Files
fame. It features Gillian doing sci-fi phone sex vocals on a track by =
HAL.
That lame band Weezer starts off their 'My Garage' song with the =
lyrics...
'I got a twelve sided die, I got a Dungeon Master's Guide,
I got Kitty Pryde and Wolverine too...'
Right. I forgot this in mainly about super hero references. There was a
short lived Death Metal band who's name escapes me that put out a CD =
called
'The Wolverine Blues' with a picture of the angriest Canadian on the =
front.
Oh yea, the soundtrack to The Crow includes a song by Rollins about the
Ghost Rider. My favourite line is 'He's ridin' through your town with =
his
head on fire!'.
Also, the Spawn movie soundtrack [much better than the movie itself]
includes some great horror/supers material.
My favourite superhero lyrics are all from 'Superman's Song' by the =
Crash
Test Dummies. Has anyone mentioned that yet? Plus, there's 'Superman's =
Dead'
from Our Lady Peace. Of course, both of these are Canadian bands.
That's it. I'm done. Sorry for being long winded but I do love to talk
music.
Later
BRI
] -----Original Message-----
] From: Lance Dyas [mailto:lancelot@inetnebr.com]
] Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 10:38 AM
] To: Dr. Nuncheon
] Cc: Stainless Steel Rat; Champions
] Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
]=20
]=20
] The song was co-written by Michael Moorcock as was Black=20
] Blade,... given
] that, I am certain the literal interpretation was intended,=20
] psychic shell
] shock/burnout in a super tech universe is just the kind of=20
] thing he'd write
] about.
]=20
] "Dr. Nuncheon" wrote:
]=20
] > On 13 Jun 1999, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
] >
] > > "The Veteran of the Psychic Wars" is one of Blue =D6yster=20
] Cult's most
] > > depressing songs. It is the lament of a veteran of a=20
] series of wars in
] > > which nanotechnic/psionic weapons have left him a total wreck:
] > >
] > > You see me now, a veteran of a thousand psychic wars
] > > My energy is spent at last and my armor is destroyed
] > > I have used up all my weapons and I'm helpless and bereaved
] > > Wounds are all I'm made of
] > > Did I hear you say that this is victory?
] >
] > Heh. I guess I always favored a, um, less literal=20
] interpretation of the
] > song. I always saw it as a kind of anti-love song about a=20
] relationship
] > that turned to total hatred - the 'Psychic Wars' of the=20
] title. By the
] > time she finally leaves him, he's an emotional wreck...
] >
] > But it could be the other way, too.
] >
] > J
] >
] > Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston=20
] - jeffj@io.com
] > Qui annus est? =20
] http://www.io.com/~jeffj
]=20
]=20
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 1999 11:36:01 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats (Rat remix)
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* Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
| I think the point is, how is this expressed in the game? If I buy Energy
| Blast and Absorption with the intent of shooting myself to get power (go
| with me a moment and assume this is being done as an abuse), the GM
| shouldn't disallow the EB, he should disallow the Absorption.
Agreed.
[...]
| I don't think that using Transfer in this situation is always
| abusive. The character is paying points for the Transfer, and must invoke
| an Instant Power to enact the Transfer.
Which is a 0-phase action since you are a voluntary target, thus an attack
roll is not required.
| Also, the character is losing something as a cost of gaining the STR; in
| a way, this is /worse/ than a normal Transfer, which is intended to hurt
| an opponent while helping yourself.
I'm not arguing whether or not it is worse than anything. I am arguing
that this is not a good way to go about creating this particular effect.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ returned to its special container and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ kept under refrigeration.
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 1999 11:38:11 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
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* Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
| But Rat, to paraphrase you, there's no such thing as an attack ability.
Your point is? What was described appeared to be an offensive use of a
power -- an attack. Used in that capacity, Teleportation requires Usable
Against Others, as I said in the first place.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ Earth, presumably from outer space.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:40:23 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats (Rat remix)
>| I don't think that using Transfer in this situation is always
>| abusive. The character is paying points for the Transfer, and must invoke
>| an Instant Power to enact the Transfer.
>
>Which is a 0-phase action since you are a voluntary target, thus an attack
>roll is not required.
I'm gonna have to ask for chapter and verse on this one...is this an
official rule?
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:46:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: RE: Songs to supers...
Moorcock is part of the band Hawkwind as I recall.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I'd say about twenty guns. Some on the surface, some on the towers."
Gold Five, _Star Wars_
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:51:13 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Songs to supers...
Fascinating. It's entirely possible that he shared credits on a couple of
albums but I wouldn't consider him a core member. I wouldn't be at all
suprised if he'd written lyrics on The Warrior at the Edge of Time.
Do you remember if he played an instrument on anything? He doesn't appear on
any of the Hawkwind CD's I have.
] -----Original Message-----
] From: Michael Surbrook [mailto:susano@dedaana.otd.com]
] Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 11:46 AM
] Cc: Champions
] Subject: RE: Songs to supers...
]
]
] Moorcock is part of the band Hawkwind as I recall.
]
] --
] Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com -
] http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
]
] "I'd say about twenty guns. Some on the surface, some on
] the towers."
] Gold Five, _Star Wars_
]
]
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 1999 11:56:43 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats (Rat remix)
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* Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
| I'm gonna have to ask for chapter and verse on this one...is this an
| official rule?
Activating a power is a 0-phase action (unless you have a limitation on it
that says otherwise). Performing an attack action is a half-phase action
that ends your action phase. Using a power such as Aid on yourself is not
usually considered to be an attack action. Assuming that using Transfer on
yourself is valid in the first place, I do not see why it would require an
attack roll.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ Earth, presumably from outer space.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:58:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: RE: Songs to supers...
On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Brian Wawrow wrote:
> Fascinating. It's entirely possible that he shared credits on a couple of
> albums but I wouldn't consider him a core member. I wouldn't be at all
> suprised if he'd written lyrics on The Warrior at the Edge of Time.
>
> Do you remember if he played an instrument on anything? He doesn't appear on
> any of the Hawkwind CD's I have.
Here's what the SF refrence says:
Moorcock has published at least 30 or 40 books, in many different
series, as well as a number of stand alone novels, both in science
fiction and in fantasy. Musically he has collaborated with
Hawkwind
and Blue Oyster Cult, writing songs and occasionally performing.
Futhermore, Elric cover art by Michael Whelan has appeared as
album
cover art in at least a few places (for example, Cirith Ungol
uses one of his covers for one of their albums).
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"I'd say about twenty guns. Some on the surface, some on the towers."
Gold Five, _Star Wars_
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 1999 12:00:09 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
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* Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
| There's a space rock band from England called Hawkwind that has a whole
| albumn about Elric, called 'Warrior on the Edge of Time'.
Where Michael Moorcock collaborated briefly with Blue Öyster Cult, he has
worked extensively with Hawkwind and has even toured with them, reciting
poetry between sets ("Sonic Attack" on the "Space Ritual" double-CD set).
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:01:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Songs to supers...
- --- Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com> wrote:
> Fascinating. It's entirely possible that he shared credits on a couple of
> albums but I wouldn't consider him a core member. I wouldn't be at all
> suprised if he'd written lyrics on The Warrior at the Edge of Time.
>
> Do you remember if he played an instrument on anything? He doesn't appear on
> any of the Hawkwind CD's I have.
Moorcock has been associated in various ways with rock music. He had his own
band The Deep Fix, named after one of his best short stories. They produced one
album, "New World's Fair", based on another favorite scene: a fairground after
the end of the world. The style is almost but not quite folk rock, with some
narration from Moorcock. They produced the singles "Brothel In Rosenstrasse"
and "Dogem Dude".
He has done some work with Blue Oyster Cult and they've done a few songs on the
Law/Chaos theme ("Veteran of the Psychic Wars"), the Fireclown ("Great Sun
Jester"), and the Black Sword ("Stormbringer").
Moorcock's most famous connection with rock music, though, is undoubtedly with
our favorite band: Hawkwind.
Moorcock came across Hawkwind in 1973 simply because they were all hanging
around Portobello Road/Ladbroke Grove in London. Moorcock appeared at a few
gigs and read poetry while the band played. Eventually, in 1974, the
collaboration led to the album "Warrior on the Edge of Time" based on
Moorcock's Eternal Champion books. Moorcock both plays and narrates on the
album.
Some members of Hawkwind played on the Deep Fix album and Moorcock occasionally
guested at Hawkwind gigs. In 1982, they again collaborated with Moorcock on the
"Choose Your Masques" album which features the Law/Chaos theme in the title
track, and other Moorcockian themes in tracks such as "Coded Languages".
The collaboration culminated in the 1985 album "The Chronicles of the Black
Sword", which detailed the story of Elric and the sword Stormbringer. Moorcock
did narration on the album and on parts of the tour which followed. The tour
featured mime actors playing Elric, Zarozinia, the Chaos gods etc. The "Live
Chronicles" double-album is a recording made on the tour and again features
Moorcock narrating the story between the songs based on it.
{Source: http://www.enteract.com/~weil/golden_void.html}
- -=>John Desmarais
http://www.sysabend.org/champions
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------------------------------
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