Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 395
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 11:53 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #395
champ-l-digest Monday, June 14 1999 Volume 01 : Number 395
In this issue:
RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
RE: Songs to supers...
subscribe
RE: Songs to supers...
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:43:48 -0400
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Swapping stats (Rat remix)
RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
RE: Data using contractions
Re: Char: Exterminators
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Data using contractions
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Char: Exterminators/Alien Enemies found
Inadvertent email
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Hero site & web design trends
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Swapping stats (Rat remix)
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
God Damnit, Jim! I'm not a contractor! (BASE building)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:01:09 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
My point? Maybe you should ask yourself the same question next time you jump
on someone for using the phrase 'attack power'.
If you want my opinion on the matter of this argument, a teleport, bought
with AoE and extra mass [800kg] will allow a the teleporter to teleport
himself, all his gear and everyone in the area of effect who is willing to
be teleported with no more than 800kg coming from any one target in the
area.
Here's my logic.
[1]A basic teleport allows the teleporter to teleport himself and his
personal gear. Clothes, foci, wallet, etc.
[2]Teleport with with extra mass allows him to bring along his buddies and
extra gear with mass up to the limit it has been bought to. In this example,
the teleporter can teleport himself and 800kg of extra mass living or
otherwise.
[3]Area of affect duplicates the effect of the power not on every hex but on
every object within the area.
Thus, a teleporter with extra mass and AoE can teleport everything in the
area that does not weigh more than 800kg. That may include 40 objects that
weight 700kg's in a single hex.
However, if there is any sentient thing in the area, they may choose not to
be included in the teleport. If they so choose, that individual and anything
in their possession, does not go. The only grey area in my mind is how a GM
defines what is or is not in a character's possession.
There you have it. This is not an attack power, this is a mode of
trasportation.
Later,
BRI
] * Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
] | But Rat, to paraphrase you, there's no such thing as an
] attack ability.
]
] Your point is? What was described appeared to be an
] offensive use of a
] power -- an attack. Used in that capacity, Teleportation
] requires Usable
] Against Others, as I said in the first place.
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] --
] Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun
] Ball include an
] Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ unknown glowing
] substance which fell to
] PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ Earth, presumably from
] outer space.
]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:05:39 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Songs to supers...
Cool. I didn't realize he was on Space Ritual. Is his the voice that =
issues
the warnings on Sonic Attack?=20
In case of sonic attack on your district, follow these rules!
] Where Michael Moorcock collaborated briefly with Blue =D6yster=20
] Cult, he has
] worked extensively with Hawkwind and has even toured with=20
] them, reciting
] poetry between sets ("Sonic Attack" on the "Space Ritual"=20
] double-CD set).
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] =3DuVnG
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]=20
] --=20
] Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball=20
] may suddenly
] Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
] PGP Key: at a key server near you! \=20
]=20
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:07:12 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: subscribe
subscribe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:11:47 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Songs to supers...
Fascinating. I had no idea his involvement was so significant. What
instrument does he play on WotEoT?
] -----Original Message-----
] From: John Desmarais [mailto:johndesmarais@yahoo.com]
] Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 12:01 PM
] To: Champions
] Subject: RE: Songs to supers...
]
]
] --- Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com> wrote:
] > Fascinating. It's entirely possible that he shared credits
] on a couple of
] > albums but I wouldn't consider him a core member. I
] wouldn't be at all
] > suprised if he'd written lyrics on The Warrior at the Edge of Time.
] >
] > Do you remember if he played an instrument on anything? He
] doesn't appear on
] > any of the Hawkwind CD's I have.
]
] Moorcock has been associated in various ways with rock music.
] He had his own
] band The Deep Fix, named after one of his best short stories.
] They produced one
] album, "New World's Fair", based on another favorite scene: a
] fairground after
] the end of the world. The style is almost but not quite folk
] rock, with some
] narration from Moorcock. They produced the singles "Brothel
] In Rosenstrasse"
] and "Dogem Dude".
]
] He has done some work with Blue Oyster Cult and they've done
] a few songs on the
] Law/Chaos theme ("Veteran of the Psychic Wars"), the
] Fireclown ("Great Sun
] Jester"), and the Black Sword ("Stormbringer").
]
] Moorcock's most famous connection with rock music, though, is
] undoubtedly with
] our favorite band: Hawkwind.
]
] Moorcock came across Hawkwind in 1973 simply because they
] were all hanging
] around Portobello Road/Ladbroke Grove in London. Moorcock
] appeared at a few
] gigs and read poetry while the band played. Eventually, in 1974, the
] collaboration led to the album "Warrior on the Edge of Time" based on
] Moorcock's Eternal Champion books. Moorcock both plays and
] narrates on the
] album.
]
] Some members of Hawkwind played on the Deep Fix album and
] Moorcock occasionally
] guested at Hawkwind gigs. In 1982, they again collaborated
] with Moorcock on the
] "Choose Your Masques" album which features the Law/Chaos
] theme in the title
] track, and other Moorcockian themes in tracks such as "Coded
] Languages".
]
] The collaboration culminated in the 1985 album "The
] Chronicles of the Black
] Sword", which detailed the story of Elric and the sword
] Stormbringer. Moorcock
] did narration on the album and on parts of the tour which
] followed. The tour
] featured mime actors playing Elric, Zarozinia, the Chaos gods
] etc. The "Live
] Chronicles" double-album is a recording made on the tour and
] again features
] Moorcock narrating the story between the songs based on it.
]
] {Source: http://www.enteract.com/~weil/golden_void.html}
]
] -=>John Desmarais
] http://www.sysabend.org/champions
] _________________________________________________________
] Do You Yahoo!?
] Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
]
]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:43:48 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:43:48 -0400
subscribe
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 1999 13:12:03 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
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* Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
| My point? Maybe you should ask yourself the same question next time you
| jump on someone for using the phrase 'attack power'.
I have always said that there are powers that can be used to make an
attack. I happened to use the phrase 'attack ability' because it was
easier to type.
| If you want my opinion on the matter of this argument, a teleport, bought
| with AoE and extra mass [800kg] will allow a the teleporter to teleport
| himself, all his gear and everyone in the area of effect who is willing to
| be teleported with no more than 800kg coming from any one target in the
| area.
And I never said otherwise. What I said (and required a bit of
clarification because of my interpretation of the initial description) was
that to use Teleportation to move others but not himself requires Usable By
Others or Usable Against Others.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ head.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:25:15 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats (Rat remix)
>Activating a power is a 0-phase action (unless you have a limitation on it
>that says otherwise). Performing an attack action is a half-phase action
>that ends your action phase.
(No comment, wait to see what 5th Edition says under "Linked" :)
>Using a power such as Aid on yourself is not
>usually considered to be an attack action. Assuming that using Transfer on
>yourself is valid in the first place, I do not see why it would require an
>attack roll.
Sorry, looks like an interpretation to me.
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:25:43 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Sure, I understand what you're saying. My point is that teleport's built-in
extra mass options can be used to move sentients. This is not redundant with
UBO for one reason, the teleporter must teleport himself. No one can use his
ability to move themselves and not the teleporter and no one else can
initiate or target the teleport.
However, once the the teleporter uses the power, he can include anything in
his teleport up to the extra mass level. This cargo can be living, dead or
otherwise.
Seeya
BRI
] And I never said otherwise. What I said (and required a bit of
] clarification because of my interpretation of the initial
] description) was
] that to use Teleportation to move others but not himself
] requires Usable By
] Others or Usable Against Others.
] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
] Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
] Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
]
] iD8DBQE3ZTfjgl+vIlSVSNkRAgeBAJ9qBx/siA48aM1LDqdZOZfwzNYHMACfa+nm
] u8lxMS9PUVDwcpl7C0qUfuY=
] =xQoR
] -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
]
] --
] Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins
] to smoke, get
] Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ away immediately. Seek
] shelter and cover
] PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ head.
]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:36:12 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Sorry, he never said anything like that. He said there's no such thing as an
Attack Power, which is actually a different statement.
James
> But Rat, to paraphrase you, there's no such thing as an attack ability.
>
> ] Nor did he mention that he would. But given what was said,
> ] it seemed more
> ] an attack ability than a movement ability, and I treated it as such.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:37:21 -0700
From: "Harvey, Michael" <michael.harvey@intel.com>
Subject: RE: Data using contractions
S A Rudy wrote:
> I always assumed it was the same reason as why he has the
> funny looking skin and eyes. It was established in the
> original series that they had the technology to create
> convincing fake humans. But (it was explained in one of
> the TNG episodes) people in the colony where Data was
> designed were uncomfortable not being able to identify the
> androids, so the designer made them look different. It
> makes sense that putting a block against contractions and
> informal idiom would be another simple trick to make the
> artificial intelligence less threatening.
IIRC, Lore had originally told Data that Dr. Soong (sp?) had left out the
emotions and purposefully made Data "inferior" because of the other
colonists. But in a later episode, Data meets his maker and learns that
Lore's emotions were flawed, and that is why they weren't given to Data. I
think he also said that the colonists were uneasy around the androids, but
that that was not a consideration when he built Data. Dr. Soong then says
the two androids are "much more similar than you think" and seems to imply
that the only real difference is the (flawed) emotion chip -- which further
implies that the use of contractions is somehow related to that chip.
(Which still doesn't make any sense. Anyone with half an ounce of
programming ability could write code that understands contractions.)
OTOH, Data constantly exhibits emotional responses on the show in a subtle,
introverted sort of way (rather like Spock did, now that I think about it!)
Sometimes I think he *does* experience some limited forms of emotion, and
only *thinks* he can't. :-) When it comes to being cold and emotionless,
Seven-of-Nine makes Data look warm and caring.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:55:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Char: Exterminators
>At 10:16 PM 6/13/1999 -0700, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>
>>I certainly wouldn't have a problem with forwarding some fee to the owner of
>>the copywrite. Though with many of that sort of thing (the long out of
>>print) he or she might be quite a trick to locate. But I'll bluntly and
>>freely admit that for items I'm using for reference purposes (such as most
>>game rules are), if I know something is out of print and have no reason to
>>believe it will return to print in any reasonable rate, I'll copy for
>>personal use without a moment's qualm.
>
> Copying for your own personal use is not illegal at all. By "personal
>copies" I was referring to a book's owner making an extra copy for someone
>else.
In the case of useful reference material, it's not quite that tidy; for
example, I've copied large portions of out of print rulesbooks because I was
running a campaign, and it was frankly an appalling annoyance to only have
one set of the rules available at the table. In the case of some games, it
could also make it almost impossible for players to usefully plan downtime
activities such as training and the like. Such the people involved would
cheerfully have bought copies of the rules were they available, I don't
consider such action unethical at all, however illegal it happens to be.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:15:05 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
At 01:12 PM 6/14/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
>| If you want my opinion on the matter of this argument, a teleport, bought
>| with AoE and extra mass [800kg] will allow a the teleporter to teleport
>| himself, all his gear and everyone in the area of effect who is willing to
>| be teleported with no more than 800kg coming from any one target in the
>| area.
>
>And I never said otherwise. What I said (and required a bit of
>clarification because of my interpretation of the initial description) was
>that to use Teleportation to move others but not himself requires Usable By
>Others or Usable Against Others.
Which is neither here nor there for the question given, which was
whether the Extra Mass would apply as a grand total or on a per-hex basis.
(I think I'm in a minority of people who said grand total....)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:47:53 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Data using contractions
>IIRC, Lore had originally told Data that Dr. Soong (sp?) had left out
the
>emotions and purposefully made Data "inferior" because of the other
>colonists. But in a later episode, Data meets his maker and learns that
>Lore's emotions were flawed, and that is why they weren't given to Data.
I
>think he also said that the colonists were uneasy around the androids,
but
>that that was not a consideration when he built Data. Dr. Soong then
says
>the two androids are "much more similar than you think" and seems to
imply
>that the only real difference is the (flawed) emotion chip -- which
further
>implies that the use of contractions is somehow related to that chip.
>(Which still doesn't make any sense. Anyone with half an ounce of
>programming ability could write code that understands contractions.)
True. But perhaps Dr. Soong deliberately altered Data's code to make
contractions impossible for him to say? It would make a nice behavior
marker between the two androids..
>OTOH, Data constantly exhibits emotional responses on the show in a
subtle,
>introverted sort of way (rather like Spock did, now that I think about
it!)
>Sometimes I think he *does* experience some limited forms of emotion,
and
>only *thinks* he can't. :-) When it comes to being cold and
emotionless,
>Seven-of-Nine makes Data look warm and caring.
>
>Mike
Data's behavior towards his friends reveals that yes, indeed he does have
emotions, just fro some reason he doesn't think so, no will he admit it.
And yes, Some times 7-of-9 is quite ruthless...
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/
___________________________________________________________________
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Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:18:56 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> At 01:12 PM 6/14/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> >
> >| If you want my opinion on the matter of this argument, a teleport, bought
> >| with AoE and extra mass [800kg] will allow a the teleporter to teleport
> >| himself, all his gear and everyone in the area of effect who is willing to
> >| be teleported with no more than 800kg coming from any one target in the
> >| area.
> >
> >And I never said otherwise. What I said (and required a bit of
> >clarification because of my interpretation of the initial description) was
> >that to use Teleportation to move others but not himself requires Usable By
> >Others or Usable Against Others.
>
> Which is neither here nor there for the question given, which was
> whether the Extra Mass would apply as a grand total or on a per-hex basis.
> (I think I'm in a minority of people who said grand total....)
I go with grand total.
Teleport, Area effect :
When the char tports, he takes everything in that area with him up to
the mass total. Depending on special effects and what the player &
GM agree to, different things happen when mass is exceeded. Maybe all
the smaller bits of mass that add up to less than total can go. Everything
else stays behind.
Teleport, Area effect, selective:
The character gets to choose what goes each time, but has to hit. I'd allow
willing people to drop DCV for this purpose.
Usable by/against others is if the character is not going on the trip.
These are just my takes on the subject.
- -Mark
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:00:12 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Char: Exterminators/Alien Enemies found
At 06:11 AM 6/14/1999 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 11:20 PM 6/13/1999 -0500, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
>>While it is *possible* all three stores have sold out of the book, and
>>haven't updated their listing yet, I found all three of these listings in
>>under five minutes of searching, less than ten minutes ago, so it shouldn't
>>be hard to turn up more listings if necessary. You don't appear to have
>>tried very hard to locate it.
>
> I wouldn't criticize him on this last point. A lot of people are
>unaware that such places even exist. (I didn't, until fairly recently.)
Then I should probably presume ignorance of the REC.GAMES.FRP.MARKETPLACE
newsgroup as well, but in the case of the online stores, no special
knowledge was needed. It's possible to go to your browser and do a Net
Search on the game product you want. This does take longer than if you
knew in advance what some of the online stores were...but it's how I found
most of the online stores in the first place.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:43:13 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: Inadvertent email
My apologies to all who complained or were inconvenienced by my sending
the subscribe request earlier to the list. It was on accident, I was
trying to send it to the list daemon.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 1999 21:01:31 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
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* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
| Which is neither here nor there for the question given, which was
| whether the Extra Mass would apply as a grand total or on a per-hex basis.
A question which I also answered in my initial response *and* in my
clarification of my original statement on UBO/UAO, which went something
like this: if a 6D6 EB with AoE Radius hits everything in that area with a
6D6 attack, then 800Kg worth of Teleportation with AoE Radius may move all
objects within that area that mass 800Kg or less.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:12:57 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
At 09:01 PM 6/14/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
>| Which is neither here nor there for the question given, which was
>| whether the Extra Mass would apply as a grand total or on a per-hex basis.
>
>A question which I also answered in my initial response *and* in my
>clarification of my original statement on UBO/UAO, which went something
>like this: if a 6D6 EB with AoE Radius hits everything in that area with a
>6D6 attack, then 800Kg worth of Teleportation with AoE Radius may move all
>objects within that area that mass 800Kg or less.
I remembered that, and apologize for not mentioning it above. My main
point in the above is that we didn't need the side trip. :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:15:57 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
> Here's my logic.
> [1]A basic teleport allows the teleporter to teleport himself and his
> personal gear. Clothes, foci, wallet, etc.
> [2]Teleport with with extra mass allows him to bring along his buddies and
> extra gear with mass up to the limit it has been bought to. In this
example,
> the teleporter can teleport himself and 800kg of extra mass living or
> otherwise.
I am with you so far.
> [3]Area of affect duplicates the effect of the power not on every hex but
on
> every object within the area.
Here we have to part company, Area Effect duplicates the effect of some
powers in every hex, but not all. If I bought Flight and added Area Effect
would that give everybody Flight who was in the area? Would buying Mental
Defense with the Area Effect Advantage automatically give it to every person
in the area? There is certainly enough fuzziness in the rules to interpret
them that way. I just don't buy it. Area Effect is for allowing your power
to hit all of the people or things in an Area. Hitting the people with your
normal Teleport power just means you can take them with you up to but not to
exceed your mass limit, just like is explained in the description of
Teleport.
> Thus, a teleporter with extra mass and AoE can teleport everything in the
> area that does not weigh more than 800kg. That may include 40 objects that
> weight 700kg's in a single hex.
Certainly, if Teleport was a power that normally affected other characters
and objects. To achieve this effect using my logic(?) from above you would
have to purchase Usable Against Others to achieve this effect.
> However, if there is any sentient thing in the area, they may choose not
to
> be included in the teleport. If they so choose, that individual and
anything
> in their possession, does not go. The only grey area in my mind is how a
GM
> defines what is or is not in a character's possession.
I really am sorry but the reasoning behind this loses me. Is this some kind
of house rule? Teleport gives me the ability to take anybody with me that I
want to as long as I have the extra mass necessary and am touching them.
This can be achieved by a successful attack roll. Which if they are in the
area of my Area Effect Teleport I have done. My logic on this is based on
Flight, if I grab you and fly off you are going with me unless you can break
my grab. Since this is Teleport and I don't have to maintain a grab only a
touch I don't think you would have a chance to break away from my touch
before being Teleported. Of course this is heavily open to debate, as is
everything in Hero.
Alan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:18:25 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
> Which is neither here nor there for the question given, which was
> whether the Extra Mass would apply as a grand total or on a per-hex basis.
> (I think I'm in a minority of people who said grand total....)
You may be in a minority but you are still right.
Alan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:27:08 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
> A question which I also answered in my initial response *and* in my
> clarification of my original statement on UBO/UAO, which went something
> like this: if a 6D6 EB with AoE Radius hits everything in that area with a
> 6D6 attack, then 800Kg worth of Teleportation with AoE Radius may move all
> objects within that area that mass 800Kg or less.
Yes, but an Energy Blast is a power that normally (with no additional points
spent) affects things other than the owner. Teleport only affects other
animates if you pay additional points. The amount of those additional
points determines how much extra mass you can move with you. Although I can
see allowing the touching stipulation to be ignored by the Area Effect
advantage I can't see why that would allow you to increase how much extra
weight you can take with you. Comparing the number of dice of an Energy
Blast to the extra mass of a Teleport is not comparing like to like. If you
want to compare the number of dice in Energy Blast to something from
Teleport it should be the number of inches of Teleport movement.
Alan
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 1999 22:43:59 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
| I remembered that, and apologize for not mentioning it above. My main
| point in the above is that we didn't need the side trip. :-]
Take it up with the guy who directed me onto the exit ramp, not me.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:42:29 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Hero site & web design trends
I visited the revamped Hero Games site tonight and am not very happy with
the layout. It seems to be fairly typical of commercial sites these days
to incorporate wide banners, frames and/or button bars into the page,
squeezing out the actual page content in the process.
I usually use Netscape, which already takes up the top 2.5" of my screen
with its own button bar. The newly designed Hero page fills the next 2"
with a black strip containing a button bar and gold Hero logo. My screen
is now half full. Subtract 0.75" for the Win95 staus bar at the bottom of
the screen and I only have 2.5" left to view the page itself in! This is
not satisfactory. Hell, the "Under Construction" image alone fills three
times that space.
Web designers need to take pity on those of us with 15" monitor screens and
make the banners, fixed frames, and button bars as small and unobtrusive as
possible.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:53:08 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
At 09:01 PM 6/14/99 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
>| Which is neither here nor there for the question given, which was
>| whether the Extra Mass would apply as a grand total or on a per-hex basis.
>
>A question which I also answered in my initial response *and* in my
>clarification of my original statement on UBO/UAO, which went something
>like this: if a 6D6 EB with AoE Radius hits everything in that area with a
>6D6 attack, then 800Kg worth of Teleportation with AoE Radius may move all
>objects within that area that mass 800Kg or less.
I see your logic there, but you could also say that teleport affects
everything within its defined strictures (such as energy blast does... it
won't hit desolid, for example). The question here is whether or not the
extra mass affects the teleported area as a whole or individually. As a
GM, lacking clearer info, I would say it can lift anything in the area
totalling that weight.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:54:35 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
>| I remembered that, and apologize for not mentioning it above. My main
>| point in the above is that we didn't need the side trip. :-]
>
>Take it up with the guy who directed me onto the exit ramp, not me.
(hiding the detour signs behind my back)
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 1999 22:55:35 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
| Yes, but an Energy Blast is a power that normally (with no additional points
| spent) affects things other than the owner. Teleport only affects other
| animates if you pay additional points. The amount of those additional
| points determines how much extra mass you can move with you.
Here is another example: Telekenesis. 25 Strength TK with AoE affects each
individual object in that area with 25 Strength. That means all objects in
the area massing 800Kg or less can be picked up and moved.
The multiplication of effect over the area is a function of the Area of
Effect advantage, not the base power.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ of skin.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 1999 22:58:46 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
| Here we have to part company, Area Effect duplicates the effect of some
| powers in every hex, but not all.
Chapter and verse, please? :)
| If I bought Flight and added Area Effect would that give everybody Flight
| who was in the area?
Assuming you bought Usable By Others or Usable Against Others, yes.
| Would buying Mental Defense with the Area Effect Advantage automatically
| give it to every person in the area?
Assuming you bought Usable By Others or Usable Against Others, yes.
| There is certainly enough fuzziness in the rules to interpret them that
| way. I just don't buy it. Area Effect is for allowing your power to hit
| all of the people or things in an Area.
Area of Effect is for allowing your power to hit all of the people or
things in an area with the same ammount of power. That is how AoE works
with everything else, why should it mysteriously be different for
Teleportation, especially when no such exception is ever mentioned anywhere?
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:59:25 -0400
From: "Dale A. Ward" <daleward@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats (Rat remix)
Greetings!
Geoff Speare wrote:
> Next time Rat, skip the silly sidetrack questions and get to your main
> point; you'll piss off a lot fewer people that way. :)
I doubt it...
Dale A. Ward
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:32:55 -0500
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
On 6/14/99 at 9:15 PM J. Alan Easley wrote:
>> [3]Area of affect duplicates the effect of the power not on every hex
but
>on
>> every object within the area.
>
>Here we have to part company, Area Effect duplicates the effect of some
>powers in every hex, but not all. If I bought Flight and added Area
Effect
>would that give everybody Flight who was in the area? Would buying Mental
>Defense with the Area Effect Advantage automatically give it to every
person
>in the area? There is certainly enough fuzziness in the rules to
interpret
>them that way. I just don't buy it. Area Effect is for allowing your
power
>to hit all of the people or things in an Area. Hitting the people with
your
>normal Teleport power just means you can take them with you up to but not
to
>exceed your mass limit, just like is explained in the description of
>Teleport.
>
So, by your reasoning, would an Energy Blast have to divide up the # of
dice of damage it does over an area, or would each target in the area take
the same # of dice of damage? The latter, I think. If you don't have to
divide up the total damage done by an Energy Blast, I think you wouldn't
have to divide up the carrying capacity of a Teleport.
Guy Hoyle (ghoyle1@airmail.net)
"I used to think, "Mind control satellites? No way!' But now, I can't
remember what we did without 'em."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:37:25 +1000
From: Hamish Laws <h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
At 12:35 PM 6/13/99 -0500, Brats Incorporated wrote:
>>* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Sun, 13 Jun 1999
>>| Teleportation can be used to bring others along, at no range.
>>| Otherwise, what's the Extra Mass adder for?
>
>>
>>Extra Mass is for taking things or people with you when you use
>>Teleportation. If you want to Teleport things other than yourself, you
>>must have Usable By/Against Others, regardless of how much Extra Mass you
>>might be able to move.
>
>I total disagree with this one. You do not need UAO to teleport someone
else.
>UAO is only used if you are teleporting someone against their will.
>
>Per BBB Pg. 87
>EXAMPLE: Chesire Cate has 20" of Teleportation. For +5 Character Points in
>Teleportation, Chesire Cat could teleport himself and some other person he
>was touching.For 10 points, he could teleport himself and 3 other people he
>was touching.
What UAO would mean for teleportation is that you can teleport people
_without_ having to go along yourself. So Teleport UAO could be used to
teleport one human sized thing other than your character.
****************************************************************************
The Politician's Slogan
'You can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all
of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
****************************************************************************
Mad Hamish
Hamish Laws
h_laws@postoffice.utas.edu.au
h_laws@tassie.net.au
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:51:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: God Damnit, Jim! I'm not a contractor! (BASE building)
And so it has come time for me to make a base for the evil
villain.
It's a Necromancer's Tower.
He has spent 17 points (85 total) for the base.
It is in a distant location. It is made of strange black stone
(DEF 8, BODY 8), a hundred feet in height, decorated with graven images of
leering devils. It has a magic lab.
The Questions:
Since I'm scraping up for points, and this is a some what spindly
tower, I was wonder what the trade off ratio would be from height/width,
and what I could realistically get away with while still getting my
hundred foot tall tower. Game mechanics and real world equivalents would
help me put this into perspective.
I'm hoping I have enough points left over to throw in a few piddle
guards and torturers for a dungeon/torture chamber.
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #395
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Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 04:13 PM