Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 396
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 2:20 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #396
champ-l-digest Tuesday, June 15 1999 Volume 01 : Number 396
In this issue:
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Hero site & web design trends
Hero v5 release date
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Hero site & web design trends
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Songs to supers...
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Songs to supers...
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Songs to supers...
Re: Songs to supers...
Re: Data using contractions
Re: Swapping stats
Re: What's My Line? (was The Mummy)
Re: HERO site back up?
Re: Songs to supers...
Re: Swapping stats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:04:31 -0500
From: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>| There is certainly enough fuzziness in the rules to interpret them that
>| way. I just don't buy it. Area Effect is for allowing your power to hit
>| all of the people or things in an Area.
>
>Area of Effect is for allowing your power to hit all of the people or
>things in an area with the same ammount of power. That is how AoE works
>with everything else, why should it mysteriously be different for
>Teleportation, especially when no such exception is ever mentioned anywhere?
Then let's go back to Transer... if AE duplicates the effect "once per
hex" or whatever (I believe you said that for TK, although it really
should be "once per object and everything it holds" under the current
discussion), then why doesn't the "Transfer COM->COM, Area Effect Radius
(earth)" instantly make you the most beautiful person anywhere?
It's mysteriously different because we know it's abusive.
Me, I'm meaner than any of you: straight Area Effect Radius (without
Selective or Nonselective) means that you attempt to Teleport everything
within the radius (that's in 3 dimensions, folks), and if the total mass
is greater than 800 kg, you fail. This is consistent (if you try to
teleport while touching 900 kg of people, you fail too).
Basically, since the Power already lists a cost for "affecting more stuff",
you shouldn't try to sneak "LOTS more stuff" into the equation by buying
another advantage. You can't buy (Darkness, 1" radius), then buy "Area
Effect Radius, x256 (+3)" for a total of 40 points, and use it the same
as (Darkness, 256" radius) bought for 2560 pts. You just can't.
If I were your GM, I'd allow (Teleport w/others) to work as:
1. no-range AE (nonselective, starting from you, working out, ignoring
things above the remaining TP mass), or
2. must-be-part-of-touching-circle, or
3. must be touching you directly, or (ad nauseam)
Define it at the beginning, along with your SFX. No changing one's mind.
Donald
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:03:30 PDT
From: S A Rudy <sarudy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hero site & web design trends
says Damon:
>I visited the revamped Hero Games site tonight and am not very happy with
>the layout. It seems to be fairly typical of
>commercial sites these days to incorporate wide banners, frames
>and/or button bars into the page, squeezing out the actual page
>content in the process.
>I usually use Netscape, which already takes up the top 2.5" of my screen
>with its own button bar. The newly designed Hero page
>fills the next 2" with a black strip containing a button bar and
>gold Hero logo. My screen is now half full. Subtract 0.75" for the Win95
>staus bar at the bottom of the screen and I only have 2.5" left to view the
>page itself in! This is not satisfactory.
>The "Under Construction" image alone fills three times that space.
>Web designers need to take pity on those of us with 15" monitor
>screens and make the banners, fixed frames, and button bars as small and
>unobtrusive as possible.
Actually, I have a 19" monitor and 1152 x 864 resolution and
I agree with your points anyway. I don't see why the site
needs two navigation bars (it's not like one is a submenu of
the other - they seem to be independant), nor why the black
top navigation bar needs to be quite so large. When someone
at my resolution thinks "hey, those are pretty large looking
graphics" - they're probably too big.
In fact, I think the entire black navigation bar could be
removed and the navigation functions incorporated into the
whitespace nagivation bar to better effect. Of course,
that would reduce the cute java mouseover effects, but aside
from saying "hey, we have cool mouseover java effects",
they don't really add value to the site. (Ouch, somebody
hit me - I just used the phrase "add value" of my own free
will). I mean, you probably can already figure out that
the link called "store" means "buy products online", "info"
means "about Hero Games and more", "software" means "all
about our software", etc. I think I'd also prefer an image
map to the text-graphics if you are going to do that sort of
thing. The only useful thing you'd lose is the scrolling
with the frame.
I do think the blue and white portion of the screen is
quite attractive and works well on a large screen. I like
the font and general color scheme. The blue and black on
white is crisp and neat-looking and I like the rounded
"caps" on the text area. What's there is easy to read and
fairly well laid out. I'll be interested to see what it
looks like when it's finished.
(Oh, and Damon, if you haven't already, you might try
setting your button bar to text-only buttons - they take
up much less space that way.)
- -S
S A Rudy http://www.eclipse.net/~srudy
+----------------------------------------------------------+
|"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what |
| feminism is; I only know that people call me a feminist |
| whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from |
| a doormat or a prostitute." -- Rebecca West, 1913 |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:08:33 PDT
From: S A Rudy <sarudy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Hero v5 release date
I was wondering. I've seen August mentioned as a release for Hero 5th
edition.
Could this mean it will be ready for Gen Con?
- -S
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:20:06 -0700
From: david_mckee@filemaker.com (David McKee)
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>Me, I'm meaner than any of you: straight Area Effect Radius (without
>Selective or Nonselective) means that you attempt to Teleport everything
>within the radius (that's in 3 dimensions, folks), and if the total mass
>is greater than 800 kg, you fail.
While I basically agree with you, I'd have to point out that just because
you buy a power/advantage with X doesn't mean the character/player HAS to
use it at X. The player has always been able to use it at X-1 (or
whatever).
X is a maximum.
So I would say that you do not have to attempt to teleport everything
within that radius, *it could be smaller at the player's option*. As long
as the total mass didn't exceed the 800kg total, (s)he's ok.
But I think a 800kg/hex is abusive. If a player wanted 800kg
per hex, they'd have to pay more for it...
I see the Energy Blast over an area thing as different since it's almost
intuitive that a 6d6 blast with an area effect is going to do 6d6 to
each element within the area. If you had a 6d6 blast, and *spread* the
blast to cover an area, then the damage per element lessens. Implying
that the total 6d6 is shared as a sum of the area.
This is how I see most teleports working, as a single effort spread
out over an area, while the total "load" it can bear staying the same.
Since there is no such thing as "spreading" a teleport, this makes
perfect sense to me.
I can't imagine what kind of teleport (sfx) would justify a per hex
limit....
- -Dave
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:53:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
>To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 2:15 PM
>Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>
>> Which is neither here nor there for the question given, which was
>> whether the Extra Mass would apply as a grand total or on a per-hex basis.
>> (I think I'm in a minority of people who said grand total....)
>
>You may be in a minority but you are still right.
Actually, that's highly interpetational. Just as it would be if the same
question came up regarding TK. I'd argue that radius takes a normally
single target effect and makes it effect more than one target, and therefor
applies the qualities of that effect to every target. Others would say that
a weight or mass limit does not reference a single target, so that making it
area effect is irrelevant. But there is nothing in the book to solve the
question authoritatively at all.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:29:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Hero site & web design trends
On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, S A Rudy wrote:
> In fact, I think the entire black navigation bar could be
> removed and the navigation functions incorporated into the
> whitespace nagivation bar to better effect. Of course,
> that would reduce the cute java mouseover effects, but aside
> from saying "hey, we have cool mouseover java effects",
> they don't really add value to the site.
I, personally, like pull down/pop up java menus, menu-search
listings (one list of possible page choices that you can even access from
text only non graphic non frame non java browsers like mine), and
enter-word whole site searches.
They take up little space and are easy to access for most users...
even if they have their own seperate pages that you can access by clicking
a floating javafied Hero-Hex logo button that stays at the bottom of the
screen.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:33:06 -0500
From: Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>Actually, that's highly interpetational. Just as it would be if the
>same question came up regarding TK. I'd argue that radius takes a
>normally single target effect and makes it effect more than one target,
>and therefor applies the qualities of that effect to every target.
>Others would say that a weight or mass limit does not reference a
>single target, so that making it area effect is irrelevant. But there
>is nothing in the book to solve the question authoritatively at all.
Brings up an interesting question: how *would* you buy "Captain Britain
Strength"? He can lift an oceanliner by the nose (and not break it)
because he TKs each hex of the ship, but cannot hold a a microscopic
600 kg Neutronium chip (with marble-sized stasis field) in one hand.
Possibilities include:
AE 1 hex (+1/4: double the number of hexes, but only to fill out
single object)
UAO Flight (sigh...)
UAO+Sticky
STR (just ignore the stoopid physics and move on)
These should probably be hex-cubes, btw.
AE:radius gives you x8 hex-cubes per doubling...
Donald
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:06:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>Then let's go back to Transer... if AE duplicates the effect "once per
>hex" or whatever (I believe you said that for TK, although it really
>should be "once per object and everything it holds" under the current
>discussion), then why doesn't the "Transfer COM->COM, Area Effect Radius
>(earth)" instantly make you the most beautiful person anywhere?
>
>It's mysteriously different because we know it's abusive.
It's also also dealing with Adjustment powers which already have a lot of
odd little rules involving them, and is only different to a degree. You
_do_ lower everyone's COM in the area.
This also operates on the theorem that the radius Teleport is abusive. I
don't think it particularly is. Consider that a at it's minimum cost (+20
points for a 10" teleport with no other add ons) it costs the same as an
extra 15 people would, effects a whole exciting 3 hex diameter area, and
can force you to take people who you don't want to if they get close enough
and they want to go. Doesn't look too abusive to me.
>Basically, since the Power already lists a cost for "affecting more stuff",
>you shouldn't try to sneak "LOTS more stuff" into the equation by buying
>another advantage. You can't buy (Darkness, 1" radius), then buy "Area
And under most situations, you won't. It's pretty hard to beat a mass
doubling equation with radius, even with the radius doubling function
>Effect Radius, x256 (+3)" for a total of 40 points, and use it the same
>as (Darkness, 256" radius) bought for 2560 pts. You just can't.
And that's a flaw with Darkness, IMO. It's too hard to make a large one
compared to every other power in the game. I'd say that's what the computer
people call a 'legacy' problem.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:52:02 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
Brian Wawrow wrote:
> Songs for gaming, let me see...
>
> There's a space rock band from England called Hawkwind that has a whole
> albumn about Elric, called 'Warrior on the Edge of Time'. My buddy has a
> video tape of one of their concerts called 'Chronicle of the Black Sword' in
> which they play the whole album with actors/dancers pantomiming the plot
> throughout, like some mad acid-induced ballet. They have this giant guy in a
> white wig with a huge sword for Elric. Between the songs, out comes Moorcock
> with crazy lighting to recite bits from the novel in his best big booming
> dramatic voice. Very cool, in a nerdy sort of way.
>
> Other Hawkwind songs relevant to this discussion include but are not limited
> to Steppenwolf [this predates the band and is based on the werewolf novel of
> the same name], Angel of Death, Assassins of Allah, Automoton, Chaos Army,
> Children of the Sun, The Dark Lords, and tons of others from some 30 years
> of recording at the cult following level. Check here..
> http://www.conifersclose.freeserve.co.uk/hawkwind_songs.html
>
Snikt
Also an australian rocker named Billy Thorpe, who sounds a lot like Billy
Squire, did a great concept album called Children of the Sun. Really cool imagry
on thatone I must say.
And for more KISS and some other Hard Rock Bands lets See: (Gosh I Love this
stuff)
Dark Light (Energy Projector)
Odyssey (a Superman level character if I ever heard one, I usually make it a
woman)
Psycho Circus (Villain Team)
Mr Blackwell (some demonic Fashion Critic?)
Getaway (Speedster)
Mr Crawley (Ozzy Osbourne) (Demonic Businessman)
The Price (Twisted Sister) (Clawed Assassin/of Grimm Reaper Theamed Assassin)
2000 Man (KISS) (Genius Inventer/Android)
Submarine Girl (KISS)
Destroyer (Twisted Sister) Unstopable Brick
I'm so sure there's more....maybe later...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:07:22 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
At 09:18 PM 6/14/1999 -0500, J. Alan Easley wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
>To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 2:15 PM
>Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>
>> Which is neither here nor there for the question given, which was
>> whether the Extra Mass would apply as a grand total or on a per-hex basis.
>> (I think I'm in a minority of people who said grand total....)
>
>You may be in a minority but you are still right.
It's starting to look like I miscounted....
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:11:29 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
At 10:43 PM 6/14/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
>* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
>| I remembered that, and apologize for not mentioning it above. My main
>| point in the above is that we didn't need the side trip. :-]
>
>Take it up with the guy who directed me onto the exit ramp, not me.
That was the problem. As far as I can recall, nobody directed you there.
If someone did, then I apologize to you, and direct my wrath at that
individual.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:10:44 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
At 10:58 PM 6/14/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
>* "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
>
>| If I bought Flight and added Area Effect would that give everybody Flight
>| who was in the area?
>
>Assuming you bought Usable By Others or Usable Against Others, yes.
>
>| Would buying Mental Defense with the Area Effect Advantage automatically
>| give it to every person in the area?
>
>Assuming you bought Usable By Others or Usable Against Others, yes.
>
>| There is certainly enough fuzziness in the rules to interpret them that
>| way. I just don't buy it. Area Effect is for allowing your power to hit
>| all of the people or things in an Area.
>
>Area of Effect is for allowing your power to hit all of the people or
>things in an area with the same ammount of power. That is how AoE works
>with everything else, why should it mysteriously be different for
>Teleportation, especially when no such exception is ever mentioned anywhere?
I think Alan came up with rather poor examples there. A better question
would be, would TK with AoE still lift only its total STR, or its STR per
hex, or its STR per object?
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:19:47 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> * "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
> | Yes, but an Energy Blast is a power that normally (with no additional
points
> | spent) affects things other than the owner. Teleport only affects other
> | animates if you pay additional points. The amount of those additional
> | points determines how much extra mass you can move with you.
>
> Here is another example: Telekenesis. 25 Strength TK with AoE affects
each
> individual object in that area with 25 Strength. That means all objects
in
> the area massing 800Kg or less can be picked up and moved.
Telekinesis is still a power that affects other objects normally. Teleport
has a built in feature that allows the teleportation of extra mass. If you
want to teleport the extra mass buy it. Don't try to get it buy trying to
by the ability to teleport any object in a certain area. This is exactly
the kind of thing you are usually arguing against. I am surprised to find
you on the other side of this disagreement.
> The multiplication of effect over the area is a function of the Area of
> Effect advantage, not the base power.
True, but the effect of Teleportation is to take the owner of the power on a
trip with whatever he is touching up to the total amount of extra mass
he/she has bought. It still takes every owner of the power in the area on a
trip carrying as much extra mass as he has bought. There is of course only
one owner in this area. I see no problem with the allowing of Area Effect
to serve as the touching in this case but not giving the power owner a free
UAO.
Alan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:29:55 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> * "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
> | Here we have to part company, Area Effect duplicates the effect of some
> | powers in every hex, but not all.
>
> Chapter and verse, please? :)
BBB 4.2, Page 90, Power Advantages, Area Effect, First Sentence.
"Powers with this Power Advantage affect all targets in an area."
Powers like Teleport and other normally self-only powers such as Mental
Defense and Force Field don't have targets and are not usable on targets
without buying the appropriate advantage which is either UAO or UBO. If
they did have targets you would be required to roll to hit with them.
> | If I bought Flight and added Area Effect would that give everybody
Flight
> | who was in the area?
>
> Assuming you bought Usable By Others or Usable Against Others, yes.
Agreed, especially as this was supposed to be a rhetorical question.
> | Would buying Mental Defense with the Area Effect Advantage automatically
> | give it to every person in the area?
>
> Assuming you bought Usable By Others or Usable Against Others, yes.
Agreed, especially as this was supposed to be a rhetorical question.
> | There is certainly enough fuzziness in the rules to interpret them that
> | way. I just don't buy it. Area Effect is for allowing your power to
hit
> | all of the people or things in an Area.
>
> Area of Effect is for allowing your power to hit all of the people or
> things in an area with the same ammount of power. That is how AoE works
> with everything else, why should it mysteriously be different for
> Teleportation, especially when no such exception is ever mentioned
anywhere?
You just mentioned two exceptions above. Why else would you insist on
applying the requirement that the two examples above require either UBO or
UAO if you believe that Area Effect works the same for everything? I don't
have to purchase UBO along with my Area Effect Energy Blast to have it
affect everybody why do you claim I need it for powers like Mental Defense
but not Teleportation, and at that same time claim that Area Effect works
the same for all powers?
I am trying to understand your reasoning here but I am not succeeding. In
case I am simply being dense please accept my apologies and try at least one
more time to explain it to me.
Alan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:03:08 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
> >To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
> >Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 2:15 PM
> >Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
> >
> >> Which is neither here nor there for the question given, which was
> >> whether the Extra Mass would apply as a grand total or on a per-hex
basis.
> >> (I think I'm in a minority of people who said grand total....)
> >
> >You may be in a minority but you are still right.
>
> Actually, that's highly interpetational. Just as it would be if the same
> question came up regarding TK. I'd argue that radius takes a normally
> single target effect and makes it effect more than one target, and
therefor
> applies the qualities of that effect to every target. Others would say
that
> a weight or mass limit does not reference a single target, so that making
it
> area effect is irrelevant. But there is nothing in the book to solve the
> question authoritatively at all.
English is usually interpretational. Just as you interpreted my statement
to Bob that he was right as me saying that to think otherwise was wrong. I
have two interpretations of using Teleportation w/Area Effect that I feel
are completely understandable. One is exactly as Bob has stated that the
Extra Mass is the total for the entire area covered by Area Effect. The
other, as I stated originally when the question first came up, was that
adding Area Effect to Teleportation does absolutely nothing, since it
specifically states under the description of Teleportation that it affects
only the owner of the power and his equipment and if he purchases Extra Mass
he can take that mass with him but only if he is touching it. Area Effect
doesn't let you touch the objects and people in it. I agree with Bob that
the best way to run it is to let the Area Effect suffice as the requirement
of "touching." But I can't agree that giving the same effect as if I had
bought my Teleportation with UAO is valid. Please look at the following
constructs:
Teleportation, 10", 800kg Extra Mass, Area Effect.
Teleportation, 10", 800kg Extra Mass, Area Effect, Usable Against Others.
What is the difference between how these powers function? It can't be the
difference of whether or not it affects the owner of the power. The owner
is going to be in the area since it isn't bought Ranged.
Alan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 05:11:09 GMT
From: mhoram@relia.net (Curtis A Gibson)
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
With all the commentary on super references in rock songs, I was
surprised no one mentioned The Superman Song by the Crash Test
Dummies....
"Superman never made any money
Saving the world from Solomon Grundy...."
- -Mhoram
Not only does the English Language borrow words from other languages,
it sometimes chases them down dark alleys, hits them over the head,
and goes through their pockets.=20
-- Eddy Peters
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:05:34 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Guy Hoyle <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
To: J. Alan Easley <alaneasley@email.com&> <champ-l@sysabend.org&> Brian
Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>Area Effect is for allowing your
> power
> >to hit all of the people or things in an Area. Hitting the people with
> your
> >normal Teleport power just means you can take them with you up to but not
> to
> >exceed your mass limit, just like is explained in the description of
> >Teleport.
> >
>
> So, by your reasoning, would an Energy Blast have to divide up the # of
> dice of damage it does over an area, or would each target in the area take
> the same # of dice of damage? The latter, I think. If you don't have to
> divide up the total damage done by an Energy Blast, I think you wouldn't
> have to divide up the carrying capacity of a Teleport.
No, but there is a big difference between Energy Blast and Teleport.
Teleport is a Movement Power. Energy Blast is a Standard Power (you
probably thought I was going to say Attack Power but I don't feel like
hearing again how there are no Attack Powers) that affects other characters
as a normal part of its function.
If Area Effect Flight doesn't give everybody in the area Flight, then Area
Effect Teleport shouldn't give everybody in the area a separate Teleport.
Alan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 01:35:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, J. Alan Easley wrote:
<snip>
> Teleportation, 10", 800kg Extra Mass, Area Effect.
> Teleportation, 10", 800kg Extra Mass, Area Effect, Usable Against Others.
>
> What is the difference between how these powers function? It can't be the
> difference of whether or not it affects the owner of the power. The owner
> is going to be in the area since it isn't bought Ranged.
>
> Alan
The Active Points of the power (for Adjustment Powers and END
costs), the Real Cost, and the possibility the AoE is bought Selective,
the functioning of the power sets above changes.
TPT 10" 800kg AoE: Sel. being able to Teleport things with you.
TPT 10" 800kg AoE: Sel. UAO being able to Teleport objects away
from you.
Kind of handy when Grond is threatening a bus load on nuns, or
when Foxbat has decided to crash your best friend's wedding.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:12:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>of "touching." But I can't agree that giving the same effect as if I had
>bought my Teleportation with UAO is valid. Please look at the following
>constructs:
It isn't the same effect. If you don't buy it UAO, you still can't take
other targets who don't want to go.
>
>Teleportation, 10", 800kg Extra Mass, Area Effect.
>
>Teleportation, 10", 800kg Extra Mass, Area Effect, Usable Against Others.
>
>What is the difference between how these powers function? It can't be the
>difference of whether or not it affects the owner of the power. The owner
>is going to be in the area since it isn't bought Ranged.
Actually, he's isn't necessarily going to be, either, since many people
interpet a zero range area effect to not necessarily have to have the user
be at the centerpoint. I've let people do such things and be right at the
edge of the area.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:52:30 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@inetnebr.com>
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
No competition surely, BOC rocks... ;) additionally the flavor of Veteran for
the Psychic Wars is worthy of an entire campaign me thinks.
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> It just struck me that the winner in the "songs to supers" contest is Blue
> Oyster Cult. I mena, how do you compete with "Black Blade" (Elric),
> "Veteran of the Psychic Wars", "Me262" and (of course) "Godzilla".
>
> --
> Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
>
> "I must say that I find television very educational.
> The minute somebody turns it on, I go to the library
> and read a book.
>
> Groucho Marx
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:57:21 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@inetnebr.com>
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
Heavy Metal had Ah well extreme variation in qualition IMVHO
The sound track was seriously good... Me I liked the Tara the
Tarakian, stern was too bald faced silly for me blood.
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jun 1999, Ross Rannells wrote:
>
> > I used to go with the burned out love song interpretation until I saw
> > "Heavy Metal". I can't associate any love songs with that masterpiece
> > of animation. I'm firmly with Rat's interpretation on it now.
>
> Masterpiece? I dunno if I'd go that far. Personally, I think the
> soundtrack is the best part about it. That and Capt Stern.
>
> --
> Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
>
> "I don't buy temporary insanity as a murder defense, 'cause people
> kill people. That's an animal instinct. I think breaking into
> someone's home and ironing all their clothes is temporary insanity."
> Sue Kolinsky
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:30:06 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filksngr@deskmail.com>
Subject: Re: Data using contractions
>IIRC, Lore had originally told Data that Dr. Soong (sp?) had
left out the
>emotions and purposefully made Data "inferior" because of the
other
>colonists.
Correct.
>But in a later episode, Data meets his maker and learns that
>Lore's emotions were flawed, and that is why they weren't given
to Data.
More than that. Data was under the impression that Lore was not
only given emotions, but was deliberately superior in general. Lore
indicated that Data was made less "perfect" in order to avoid conflict
with the colonists, who could not stand the idea of a "perfect" being
among them.
<snip>
>Dr. Soong then says
>the two androids are "much more similar than you think" and
seems to imply
>that the only real difference is the (flawed) emotion chip
Actually, he says it outright.
>(Which still doesn't make any sense. Anyone with half an ounce
of
>programming ability could write code that understands
contractions.)
Absolutely. The chip doesn't just emulate emotions; it emulates
a large portion of non-essential human behavior. And Data, while a
great
mimic in certain areas (imitating visible actions, for example), isn't
very good at imitating what happens inside a person's mouth, such as
whistling or contractions.
However, this doesn't explain why Data couldn't just reprogram
himself. For that theory, see below.
>OTOH, Data constantly exhibits emotional responses on the show
in a subtle,
>introverted sort of way (rather like Spock did, now that I
think about it!)
>Sometimes I think he *does* experience some limited forms of
emotion, and
>only *thinks* he can't. :-) When it comes to being cold and
emotionless,
>Seven-of-Nine makes Data look warm and caring.
Does he? I sometimes thought so, but was never quite certain.
For example, apparently emotional responses could be due to built-in
ethical or human relations programs, rather than because he actually
feels things. He is also trying to emulate humans, after all, and
demonstrates considerable acting skill in later episodes, and so may
be
_acting_ as if he had emotions. He also indicated that appearing to
have
emotions was one of the ways he attempted to understand emotions.
My suspicion about the contractions goes something like this.
Data was programmed to have a variety of qualities. One of these
was a strict formality, which included not using contractions.
Data had a number of ways to override this programming, if the
impetus was sufficient, allowing him to reprogram himself. For an
extreme example, he once attempted to shoot an unarmed man, because he
had just committed murder, Data had ample reason to believe that the
man
would do so in the future, and Data had no other resources at his
disposal to stop the man. He did this, in spite of the fact that it
directly violated his programmed instructions on the use of force in
self defense, because his ethical subsystems gave him the impetus to
do
it. It became more important to stop the man than it was to not kill
him.
My theory is that Data's instructions to be formal were set to a
bit higher priority than is necessary. As a result, he needs to have a
strong impetus to override them. And Data, having no emotions, can't
"care" enough to do it. It isn't an important part of imitating
humans,
being a Star Fleet officer, or behaving ethically. However, tell him,
"You must use contractions, or people will die!", and he will easily
override that part of his behavior and do it.
Or maybe Soong lied, and Data was designed to be imperfect.:)
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:41:12 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
>
> But is it considered to be a normal occourance when it does happen?
You
> still have not answered that question.
If your objection is to someone using Transfer as a _normal_ occurance
to swap around their own points, then you are quite correct; it is the
wrong power.
However, there is nothing in that that prevents it from being used
against oneself as an _abnormal_ occurrence. In other words, this
isn't an argument that you can't Drain or Transfer your own stats;
only that it is the wrong power for _normal_ use.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:53:09 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com>
Subject: Re: What's My Line? (was The Mummy)
From: <Akirazeta@aol.com>
> In a message dated 6/10/99 7:15:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> haerandir@hotmail.com writes:
>
> << > "It is... it is........ it is green."
>
> That's easy! It's the sound of Lt. Data trying to identify an
apparently
> unidentifiable drink for the benefit of Montgomery Scott. >>
>
> Man, i thought it was from the Episode of Star trek The original
series where
> scotty has to get one of the super soldiers drunk enough to pass
out, and he
> has gone through all his "stach" and is left with one bottle. When
the
> soldier asks what it is, he says" Its, its, its green."
In a way, it is both. Where do you think the writers of TNG got the
idea for the line from?
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:30:06 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com>
Subject: Re: HERO site back up?
From: Terry Wilcox <terry@arcane.com>
<snip>
> Hero has chosen a service provider who also hosts
www.legscetera.com. The
> ISP has set up their web server incorrectly, so HTTP requests for
> http://herogames.com go to http://www.legscetera.com, while
> http://www.herogames.com goes to the right place.
>
> This isn't the fault of legscetera.com. It's the ISP.
>
> I think it's funny. You certainly get what you pay for.
That explains why, when I go to http://herogames.com, I get Hero
Games. I spent a little time trying to figure out if you guys were
joking or something.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:53:14 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com>
Subject: Re: Songs to supers...
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
<snip>
> ----
> And now back to song titles:
I don't do this often, though I did create a few a long time ago that,
in one case, are still around. The pop cyborg teen band/superheroes:
The Electric Youth.
It sounds like you guys have a lot more interest in songs that make
good superhero names than me.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 23:04:59 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> * "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
> | However, I do not understand why a man with, for example, a
> | Necromantic Ring of Destruction (a ring that grants EB and
Transfer
> | BODY to EB) shouldn't, in desperate straits, be able to aim it at
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Dire straits is not "normal circumstances".
You stated outright that it was forbidden for a character to use
Drain or Transfer on himself. Not just "not the best Power to use",
not just "shouldn't be used that way as a normal event", _forbidden_.
Since I did not argue at any time that it should be a normal use of
the Power, only not outright forbidden any more than shooting yourself
with an EB or RKA is, your remark is irrelevant.
Filksinger
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #396
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Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 04:13 PM