Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 399
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 4:25 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #399
champ-l-digest Tuesday, June 15 1999 Volume 01 : Number 399
In this issue:
Re: Hero site & web design trends
Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
RE: Data using contractions
Re: Space Battleship
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Teleport & Extra Mass
Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: Teleport & Extra Mass
Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: Space Battleship
Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
RE: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:21:47 EDT
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hero site & web design trends
In a message dated 6/15/99 9:40:36 AM, kalten@sandwich.net writes:
>I'm also not too terribly impressed with the web designer's grasp of the
>
>concept of "incremental revision." A significant chunk of the site's=20
>information was offline when I visited a few minutes ago (though it seemed
>
>to be better than last night). Why not leave the information accessible
>
>in the old format until a reformatted version is ready, and *then* switch?
>
The site is up in incomplete form because our old ISP went down, so we had t=
o=20
bring the new site online before we had completed our revisions. Many things=20
are still to be put into place, and many graphics are still placeholders.=20
Expect to see a number of revisions in the next few weeks.
=97 Steve Peterson, Hero Games=20
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:23:38 EDT
From: Akirazeta@aol.com
Subject: Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
In a message dated 6/15/99 2:14:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nexus@qx.net
writes:
<< It is considered 0 Endurance and Persistent, but is Always On as
well. While primarely intended for Growth and Shrinking, Innate could be
applied to other powers such as Desolidification (Ghosts), Stretching or
others at the GM's discretion. >>
And regen, if the Post Mordem advantage doesnt make it into the final edit.
right?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:23:29 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
At 02:13 PM 6/15/99 -0400, Kim Foster wrote:
>
>Innate is a +1/2 modifier. An Innate power is an instrinsic part of the
>character's make up, not a "super power" per se. It is primarely meant for
>size powers, such at the the Growth used to represent an elephant or the
>Shrinking for a mouse. An Innate power cannot be affected by Alteration
>power either positively or negatively. A Transformation or some variations
>(EX Shrinking UAO against Innate growth)is required to remove the power
>directly.It is considered 0 Endurance and Persistent, but is Always On as
>well. While primarely intended for Growth and Shrinking, Innate could be
>applied to other powers such as Desolidification (Ghosts), Stretching or
>others at the GM's discretion.
>
>
>Opinions?
>
I think this sort of modifier is needed, though I'd prefer something a
little more flexible and a little more in line with the 0
END/Persistant/Always On precedent. I brought this up a week or two ago as
a -1/4 (or perhaps -1/2) "Default State" Limitation. For a large animal
with Default State growth, you'd still buy 0 END & Persistant, and get the
effect you describe. (I like the description, by the way.) However, Default
State would also allow you to pay END to turn the power off temporarily,
e.g. a desolid character who could solidify with effort. Perhaps there
could be two options for this limitation: a -1/2 Default State that
couldn't be turned off by paying END, and a -1/4 Default State that could.
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:29:36 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: RE: Data using contractions
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
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Content-Type: text/plain
> From: jayphailey@juno.com [SMTP:jayphailey@juno.com]
>
<snip>
>
>
>Data actually has "Ethics Subroutines" which implies that his
Federation
>ethics are prgrammed in. But Data has risked himself for his
friends
>often and the risk of severe harm or destruction to himself. I
would
>tend to think that offering one's own existence so that one's
loved ones
>might continue is emotional more than anything else. Not
invalid but
>emotional nonethe less.
Data would risk his life for virtually anyone. However, this is
not necessarily an indicator of emotion. I could program a complex but
non-conscious robot to do the same. Isaac Asimov's robots all had these
three things built into them:
Asimov's Laws of Robotics
1. A robot will not harm a human being, nor through inaction
allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot will obey a human being, except where such obedience
violates the First Law.
3. A robot will protect itself from harm, except where this
would violate the First or Second Law.
Such a robot wouldn't have to _feel_ anything, but would still
come to your rescue in a heartbeat. In fact, in one story, robot users
had a problem. The robots were vulnerable to gamma radiation, which
would fry their brains instantly. The robots would note humans standing
in gamma irradiated areas that were harmless to a human being except
with hours of exposure, think, "If the human stays in there, he will be
harmed", then attempt to grab the human beings and pull them to safety,
thus destroying very expensive robots.
Filksinger
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:37:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Space Battleship
- --- Logan Darklighter <logand@airmail.net> wrote:
> The Wave Motion Engine is a bit trickier to work with, since I have a more
> concrete idea of how fast the Argo traverses Interstellar (and even
> intergalactic!) space. The Argo made a round trip of 296,000 Light years to
> the Greater Magellenic Cloud (Straight line distance, approximately 148,000
> LY) in under one year. She was opposed for the entire trip there by the
> Gamilons and was thus delayed considerably. The return trip was unimpeded
> for the most part and was made in a little over 3 1/2 months. From
> statements made in the show and a general feel for how things worked, I am
> assuming the Argo was making on average about 2 spacewarps per day.
> Apparently there was a limit on how many spacewarps they could perform in a
> given time due to stress on the ship and recalibration of the drive and
> calculations for navigation.
>
> With that data in mind, anyone want to take a crack at defining the Wave
> Motion Engine in Hero terms?
Take your pick (I can't remember how long each "jump" actually took, so I
assumed 5 minutes):
62 Active points of FTL, 2 continuing charges of 5 minutes each per day is just
a little bit slower than you want (approx 127680.5 lt yr in a 3.5 month time
period).
64 Active points of FTL, 2 continuing charges of 5 minutes each per day is just
a little bit faster than you want (approx 255361 lt yr in a 3.5 month time
period).
- -=>John Desmarais
http://www.sysabend.org/champions
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 1999 14:47:08 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
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* "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> on Tue, 15 Jun 1999
| If Area Effect Flight doesn't give everybody in the area Flight, then Area
| Effect Teleport shouldn't give everybody in the area a separate Teleport.
It does not, and we never said it did. You need Usable By or Against
Others for that to happen.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 1999 14:51:24 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
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* Donald Tsang <tsang@sedl.org> on Tue, 15 Jun 1999
| Then let's go back to Transer... if AE duplicates the effect "once per
| hex" or whatever (I believe you said that for TK, although it really
| should be "once per object and everything it holds" under the current
| discussion),
No, that was someone else.
| then why doesn't the "Transfer COM->COM, Area Effect Radius (earth)"
| instantly make you the most beautiful person anywhere?
| It's mysteriously different because we know it's abusive.
Not so mysterious: adjustment powers have Active Point limits to prevent
"infinite" addition of active points to a PC.
| Me, I'm meaner than any of you: straight Area Effect Radius (without
| Selective or Nonselective) means that you attempt to Teleport everything
| within the radius (that's in 3 dimensions, folks), and if the total mass
| is greater than 800 kg, you fail. This is consistent (if you try to
| teleport while touching 900 kg of people, you fail too).
While I disagree with this, it *is* a reasonable ruling at least for
certain types of campaigns.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:51:38 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
In a message dated 6/15/99 2:14:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nexus@qx.net
writes:
> Innate is a +1/2 modifier. An Innate power is an instrinsic part of the
> character's make up, not a "super power" per se. It is primarely meant for
> size powers, such at the the Growth used to represent an elephant or the
> Shrinking for a mouse. An Innate power cannot be affected by Alteration
> power either positively or negatively. A Transformation or some variations
> (EX Shrinking UAO against Innate growth)is required to remove the power
> directly.It is considered 0 Endurance and Persistent, but is Always On as
> well. While primarely intended for Growth and Shrinking, Innate could be
> applied to other powers such as Desolidification (Ghosts), Stretching or
> others at the GM's discretion.
>
have you play-tested this? i like the sound of it... but i would like to know
how it played.
andy
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 1999 14:56:19 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
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* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
| I think Alan came up with rather poor examples there. A better question
| would be, would TK with AoE still lift only its total STR, or its STR per
| hex, or its STR per object?
I have seen several special effects with this construct: heavy gravity
zones, large whirlwinds, and the like. In all cases, they use the third
version: anything in the area of effect is affected by the full Strength of
the TK, regardless of the actual area or number of objects within it.
Area of Effect is a potent collection of advantages, which is why they cost
so much.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 1999 14:59:26 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
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* "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> on Tue, 15 Jun 1999
| Powers like Teleport and other normally self-only powers such as Mental
| Defense and Force Field don't have targets and are not usable on targets
| without buying the appropriate advantage which is either UAO or UBO. If
| they did have targets you would be required to roll to hit with them.
Which, if you recall, is something that I have been saying all along.
[...]
| You just mentioned two exceptions above.
I mentioned no exceptions; I answered your rhetorical questions with by the
book answers.
| Why else would you insist on applying the requirement that the two
| examples above require either UBO or UAO if you believe that Area Effect
| works the same for everything?
Alan, *please* go back and read my posts before you make me repeat myself
for the 15th time.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ Earth, presumably from outer space.
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 1999 15:01:46 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
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* "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com> on Tue, 15 Jun 1999
| Yes, he did indeed say that a person was completely unable to use the
| Powers Transfer and Drain on himself.
Pardon me, but if you go back and actually read what I wrote, you will see
that what I wrote is that a person normally will not attack himself.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ returned to its special container and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ kept under refrigeration.
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 1999 15:04:26 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
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* James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com> on Tue, 15 Jun 1999
| Which is what the original post was about: a power that would allow
| Strength to grow while Intelligence shrank for the Hulk-like
| Madder==Stronger effect.
+40 Strength, Only When Berzerk. You can either take a Side Effect "Drain:
Intelligence", or limit some of your regular INT with "Not When Berzerk".
If you want more control over the balance between STR and INT, buy them in
a Multipower.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 1999 15:07:48 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & Extra Mass
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* Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se> on Tue, 15 Jun 1999
| Suppose I have bought Teleport Usable Against Others with Extra Mass*.
| Can I teleport an entire truck filling more than one hex ? Or do I have
| to buy area effect as well ?
Assuming that yes, you have sufficient Extra Mass to teleport the truck,
you can teleport the entire truck and all of its contents. Its volume has
nothing to do with it at this level.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ returned to its special container and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ kept under refrigeration.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:11:43 EDT
From: SteveL1979@aol.com
Subject: Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
There's something very much like Innate in the 5th Ed., called
Inherent, which also follows some of the guidelines which Bill Svitavsky
outline in his post.
Steve Long
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:21:19 PDT
From: S A Rudy <sarudy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & Extra Mass
says the Stainless Steel Rat:
>Curt Hicks said: Suppose I have bought Teleport Usable Against Others with
>Extra Mass. Can I teleport an entire truck filling more than one hex ? Or
>do I have to buy area effect as well ?
>>Assuming that yes, you have sufficient Extra Mass to teleport the truck,
>>you can teleport the entire truck and all of its contents. Its volume has
>>nothing to do with it at this level.
I agree, generally, although in some cases, SFX could make
a difference.
If, for example, you teleport by creating portals, you
wouldn't be able to teleport anything bigger than the
biggest portal you could create.
Of course, SFX based limitations are always at GM
discretion anyway, so maybe I'm just borrowing trouble.
- -S
S A Rudy http://www.eclipse.net/~srudy
+----------------------------------------------------------+
|"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what |
| feminism is; I only know that people call me a feminist |
| whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from |
| a doormat or a prostitute." -- Rebecca West, 1913 |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:31:34 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
At 03:11 PM 6/15/99 EDT, SteveL1979@aol.com wrote:
> There's something very much like Innate in the 5th Ed., called
>Inherent, which also follows some of the guidelines which Bill Svitavsky
>outline in his post.
Cool!
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:40:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Mucchiello <jmucchiello@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
- --- Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us> wrote:
> I think this sort of modifier is needed, though I'd prefer something
> a
> little more flexible and a little more in line with the 0
> END/Persistant/Always On precedent. I brought this up a week or two
> ago as
> a -1/4 (or perhaps -1/2) "Default State" Limitation. For a large
> animal
> with Default State growth, you'd still buy 0 END & Persistant, and
> get the
> effect you describe. (I like the description, by the way.) However,
> Default
> State would also allow you to pay END to turn the power off
> temporarily,
> e.g. a desolid character who could solidify with effort. Perhaps
> there
> could be two options for this limitation: a -1/2 Default State that
> couldn't be turned off by paying END, and a -1/4 Default State that
> could.
This comes up from time-to-time on the list. Personally. I use the
- -1/4 too. I define it in HERO terms as Variable Limitation (-1/4
limitations limited to Always On or Costs END). So yes, you have to
make the power persistent but the character can turn it off with
effort. I used it in a Kitty Pride type Desolid character. Some
people on this list object to powers being 0 END and Costs END at the
same time since the BBB explicitly forbids this. I think -1/4 makes it
viable.
Joe
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:48:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Mucchiello <jmucchiello@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
- --- Kim Foster <nexus@qx.net> wrote:
> Innate is a +1/2 modifier. An Innate power is an instrinsic part of
> the character's make up, not a "super power" per se. It is primarely
> meant for size powers, such at the the Growth used to represent an
> elephant or the Shrinking for a mouse. An Innate power cannot be
> affected by Alteration power either positively or negatively. A
> Transformation or some variations (EX Shrinking UAO against Innate
> growth)is required to remove the power directly.It is considered 0
> Endurance and Persistent, but is Always On as well. While primarely
> intended for Growth and Shrinking, Innate could be applied to other
> powers such as Desolidification (Ghosts), Stretching or
> others at the GM's discretion.
>
> Opinions?
Personally, I don't see the point. If Mass Master can alter the size
of any living creature, why should an elephant be immune to it? Or
mechanically speaking, why would you have to buy it as a Transform when
UAO Shrinking/Growth already exists?
Surprisingly, I also think it's too cheap. Two levels of Difficult to
Dispel (+1/4 each IIRC) would have the same affect of making it
undrainable, but not be 0 END Persistent for free. Besides I think two
levels of Difficult to Dispel is more than sufficient to get the same
result. Under what circumstances would I buy 0 END Persistent for +1
and not Innate for +1/2?
Additionally, your description is too genre based. There are many
games where there are no superpowers. Just alien races with innate
abilities. Would all of the Elf and Dwarf racial packages have to be
rewritten? (That was sarcasm, btw.)
Nope. I don't like this power advantage at all. YMMV.
Joe
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:49:59 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Space Battleship
At 11:02 AM 6/15/1999 -0500, Logan Darklighter wrote:
>Hey Bob! Have I got a challenge for you and TUV! And anybody else who want's
>to give this a crack. ^_^
OK, I'll see if I can give this a shot. :-]
[snip introduction]
>A few things that come to mind when designing something this big.
>
>First off, she's HUGE in comparison to most other Hero vehicles. 265.8
>meters long and listed at 62,000 metric tons (she's lighter than her WWII
>counterpart). She goes right off the regular size chart in the BBB. I can
>extrapolate upward from the chart though, so eventually, I should find the
>right size.
My manuscript also included such an extension, and an encouragement to
extend even further if necessary. I specifically had in mind people who
would want to build things like the Galactica and the Death Star. In fact,
one of the sample constructs (actually a robot built as a self-aware
"vehicle") is 1km tall.
>Okay then, here's a value that looks right in most respects:
>
>Length: 125 Hexes
>Width: 64 Hexes
>Area: 8000 Hexes
>Mass: 200 KTons
>DCV: -16
>STR: 115
>Knockback: -21
>BODY: 31
>
>
>Okay. As a base to work from, the size mostly comes out right. Shave some
>off the width to add to the length and the height and it comes out right,
>with a little extra left over. Length-133", Beam-17", Height-39", would be
>about right. Mass is higher than expected, but that can be fudged. The
>interior area voluume also looks about right for interior space. This
>doesn't include voluume, right? Just flat deckplans? How about multiple
>decks? The Argo is several stories tall.
Fudge the mass a bit if you need to.
Yes, you can count just the floor for the hex area if you want to. For
multiple decks, count them all and total them.
One everything you posted as an assumption, I'm right with you. :-]
>Okay. How about we limit the next bit of discussion to just the flight
>characteristics? Don't worry about weapons. We'll get there later. Trust me.
>^_^
>
>So, the Argo has two basic propulsion systems. An "impulse" drive for normal
>space flight, and a Wave Motion Engine for FTL flight.
>
>30" of flight with a healthy Non-Combat multiple sounds about right for the
>impulse drive.
Fine. :-]
>A SPD 3 for the Ship overall seems about right for movement purposes, (but
>what about all the different weapon elements? There were a LOT of different
>energy weapons in turrets and missile launchers of various types and a crew
>to man them all independently. She could fire her main and secondary guns
>all in a "broadside" or target independently at several different targets.
>How to portray this? Again, don't worry about game mechanics yet for the
>various specific weapons, we'll get there in due time. I just want to know
>how to portray the robust fighting capabilities of the ship in terms of how
>many attacks can be targeted per turn or phase.)
Per TUV, given the most liberal option (and I present more than one), a
vehicle can fire as many weapons as it has, against as many targets as it
has gunners. If it has twenty weapons and five gunners, then those twenty
weapons can be distributed among those gunners in any way, either fixed or
variable, and fired at up to five targets.
BTW for a ship of this size I generally recommend that the 180 degree
arc of fire be taken on all weapons. Different weapons will have different
specific arcs, but each will be limited to 180 degrees.
>The Wave Motion Engine is a bit trickier to work with, since I have a more
>concrete idea of how fast the Argo traverses Interstellar (and even
>intergalactic!) space. The Argo made a round trip of 296,000 Light years to
>the Greater Magellenic Cloud (Straight line distance, approximately 148,000
>LY) in under one year. She was opposed for the entire trip there by the
>Gamilons and was thus delayed considerably. The return trip was unimpeded
>for the most part and was made in a little over 3 1/2 months. From
>statements made in the show and a general feel for how things worked, I am
>assuming the Argo was making on average about 2 spacewarps per day.
>Apparently there was a limit on how many spacewarps they could perform in a
>given time due to stress on the ship and recalibration of the drive and
>calculations for navigation.
>
>With that data in mind, anyone want to take a crack at defining the Wave
>Motion Engine in Hero terms?
My guess would be either Extra-Dimensional Movement with 4 charges (warp
space and back twice), or possibly Teleport with the Mega-Scale Advantage
that Steve has mentioned for Hero5.
>Atter that, we get to the really interesting bits!
Oh, funzoids.... :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:18:46 PDT
From: S A Rudy <sarudy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
Joe Mucchiello <jmucchiello@yahoo.com> wrote:
>--- Kim Foster <nexus@qx.net> wrote:
>>Innate is a +1/2 modifier. An Innate power is an instrinsic part of
>>the character's make up, not a "super power" per se. It is primarily
>>meant for size powers, such at the the Growth used to represent an
>>elephant or the Shrinking for a mouse. An Innate power cannot be
>>affected by Alteration power either positively or negatively. A
>>Transformation or some variations (EX Shrinking UAO against Innate
>>growth)is required to remove the power directly.It is considered 0
>>Endurance and Persistent, but is Always On as well. While primarely
>>intended for Growth and Shrinking, Innate could be applied to other
>>powers such as Desolidification (Ghosts), Stretching or
>>others at the GM's discretion.
>Personally, I don't see the point. If Mass Master can alter the size
>of any living creature, why should an elephant be immune to it? Or
>mechanically speaking, why would you have to buy it as a Transform
>when UAO Shrinking/Growth already exists?
I think perhaps you misunderstood. Kim said Shrinking UAO *would*
work.
_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:18:12 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: RE: New Power Advantage:Innate
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEB76A.53AD8650
Content-Type: text/plain
> From: Joe Mucchiello [SMTP:jmucchiello@yahoo.com]
>
>Personally, I don't see the point. If Mass Master can alter the size
>of any living creature, why should an elephant be immune to it? Or
>mechanically speaking, why would you have to buy it as a Transform when
>UAO Shrinking/Growth already exists?
You misunderstand. You can make the target Grow or Shrink all you want.
You just can't cast "Drain Shrinking", and watch an amoeba grow to the
size of a human being, cast "Drain Desolidification" and make a ghost
solid, or "Drain Growth" and shrink an elephant to man size.
>Surprisingly, I also think it's too cheap. Two levels of Difficult to
>Dispel (+1/4 each IIRC) would have the same affect of making it
>undrainable, but not be 0 END Persistent for free. Besides I think two
>levels of Difficult to Dispel is more than sufficient to get the same
>result. Under what circumstances would I buy 0 END Persistent for +1
>and not Innate for +1/2?
Because, if you have 12 lvls of Growth, O END Persistent, you can turn
them off?
>Additionally, your description is too genre based. There are many
>games where there are no superpowers. Just alien races with innate
>abilities. Would all of the Elf and Dwarf racial packages have to be
>rewritten? (That was sarcasm, btw.)
Under the present rules, I could cast "Dispel Shrinking" on a Dwarf, and
he will grow to human size, or "Dispel Growth" on a house-sized dragon,
and it would shrink. In fact, I could shrink a semi by casting "Drain
Growth".
The only purpose of the new modifier (it could be an Advantage or a
Limitation, depending upon the overall mechanics) is to prevent powers
from being Drained or Surpressed that aren't powers, but just the way
the object is.
>Nope. I don't like this power advantage at all. YMMV.
You might wish to reconsider.
Filksinger
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:21:40 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
At 12:48 PM 6/15/99 -0700, Joe Mucchiello wrote:
>--- Kim Foster <nexus@qx.net> wrote:
>> Innate is a +1/2 modifier. An Innate power is an instrinsic part of
>> the character's make up, not a "super power" per se. It is primarely
>> meant for size powers, such at the the Growth used to represent an
>> elephant or the Shrinking for a mouse. An Innate power cannot be
>> affected by Alteration power either positively or negatively. A
>> Transformation or some variations (EX Shrinking UAO against Innate
>> growth)is required to remove the power directly.It is considered 0
>> Endurance and Persistent, but is Always On as well. While primarely
>> intended for Growth and Shrinking, Innate could be applied to other
>> powers such as Desolidification (Ghosts), Stretching or
>> others at the GM's discretion.
>>
>> Opinions?
>
>Personally, I don't see the point. If Mass Master can alter the size
>of any living creature, why should an elephant be immune to it? Or
>mechanically speaking, why would you have to buy it as a Transform when
>UAO Shrinking/Growth already exists?
>
I don't think Kim's intent was to stop someone like Mass Master, who would
probably have something like Shrinking UAO or Transform. If that was the
intent, I agree with Joe that Innate shouldn't offer any special defense.
What it should stop is Drain-O's Drain vs. Growth, or the Normalizer's
Suppress vs. Super Powers. Or death, for that matter; by current rules, a
dead elephant should shrink to human size, while a dead mouse should grow.
(This could make raising meat animals an interesting prospect in the
Champions universe.)
>Surprisingly, I also think it's too cheap. Two levels of Difficult to
>Dispel (+1/4 each IIRC) would have the same affect of making it
>undrainable, but not be 0 END Persistent for free. Besides I think two
>levels of Difficult to Dispel is more than sufficient to get the same
>result. Under what circumstances would I buy 0 END Persistent for +1
>and not Innate for +1/2?
>
Any circumstances where you'd buy a 0 END Persistant Power that's not
always on - for instance, a force field that continues to protect you
after you're unconscious, but can be turned off at will.
>Additionally, your description is too genre based. There are many
>games where there are no superpowers. Just alien races with innate
>abilities. Would all of the Elf and Dwarf racial packages have to be
>rewritten? (That was sarcasm, btw.)
>
Actually, I think an Innate-type modifier would mandate rewriting racial
packages. A dwarf entering an anti-magic zone shouldn't grow to human size
in most campaign worlds.
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #399
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