Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 400
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 8:45 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #400
champ-l-digest Tuesday, June 15 1999 Volume 01 : Number 400
In this issue:
RE: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
RE: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: Space Battleship
RE: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: Hero site & web design trends
Re: Hero site & web design trends
Re: Hero site & web design trends
RE: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: Hero site & web design trends
Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
RE: New Power Advantage:Innate
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:32:10 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: RE: New Power Advantage:Innate
At 04:18 PM 6/15/99 -0400, David Nasset wrote:
>
> In fact, I could shrink a semi by casting "Drain Growth".
>
I'll have no truck with that.
:-)
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:56:33 -0500
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
On 6/15/99 at 12:48 PM Joe Mucchiello wrote:
>Personally, I don't see the point. If Mass Master can alter the size
>of any living creature, why should an elephant be immune to it? Or
>mechanically speaking, why would you have to buy it as a Transform when
>UAO Shrinking/Growth already exists?
I think the issue has more to do with Dispel, Suppress, and Drain. You=
shouldn't be able to suppress an elephant's Growth, frinstance, or a=
rabbit's Shrinking.
Guy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:01:13 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
On Tue, Jun 15, 1999 at 03:56:33PM -0500, Guy Hoyle wrote:
> On 6/15/99 at 12:48 PM Joe Mucchiello wrote:
> >Personally, I don't see the point. If Mass Master can alter the size
> >of any living creature, why should an elephant be immune to it? Or
> >mechanically speaking, why would you have to buy it as a Transform when
> >UAO Shrinking/Growth already exists?
>
> I think the issue has more to do with Dispel, Suppress, and Drain. You shouldn't be able to suppress an elephant's Growth, frinstance, or a rabbit's Shrinking.
As is usual w/Hero, a lot depends on the SFX.
For example, I have a wizard in a fantasy game with the spell
'Corrode', bought as a Drain vs. Armor, only vs. metal armor. He
encounters an Iron Golem, who is 100% iron, and has armor bought as
'innate' -- as it should be, since a dispel magic shouldn'y remove the
'power' of Armor in this case. But a 'corrode metal' spell SHOULD
damage it. OTOH, a differently defined drain vs. armor should not.
This gets back to the Power Defense problem, or Affect Desolid. What
SFX can logically explain a single power which can deal with both a
ghost, a human mist, and a speedster vibrating at super-speed?
Every game has its problems;these are Hero's.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:35:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Mucchiello <jmucchiello@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: New Power Advantage:Innate
- --- David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com> wrote:
> > From: Joe Mucchiello [SMTP:jmucchiello@yahoo.com]
> >
> >Personally, I don't see the point. If Mass Master can alter the
size
> >of any living creature, why should an elephant be immune to it? Or
> >mechanically speaking, why would you have to buy it as a Transform
> >when UAO Shrinking/Growth already exists?
>
> You misunderstand. You can make the target Grow or Shrink all you
> want. You just can't cast "Drain Shrinking", and watch an amoeba grow
> to the size of a human being, cast "Drain Desolidification" and make
> a ghost solid, or "Drain Growth" and shrink an elephant to man size.
Not to be annoying but how tall is a target with 2 15-point levels of
Growth, Always On when MM hits him with 3 10-point levels of Shrinking,
UAO?
He still gets the +6 PD/ED (IIRC) for the growth even though he is no
longer 8m tall. If you required MM to do a Growth Drain as well, this
inconsistency is removed.
> >Surprisingly, I also think it's too cheap. Two levels of Difficult
> >to Dispel (+1/4 each IIRC) would have the same affect of making it
> >undrainable, but not be 0 END Persistent for free. Besides I think
> >two levels of Difficult to Dispel is more than sufficient to get the
> >same result. Under what circumstances would I buy 0 END Persistent
> >for +1 and not Innate for +1/2?
>
> Because, if you have 12 lvls of Growth, O END Persistent, you can
> turn them off?
Not what I asked. If I have a power that I want Always On but not
because it is Innate, why would I buy it the right way. Innate
eliminates the need for Always On because +1/2 Innate (Cannot Dispel)
is cheaper and more effective that +1 0 END Persistent / -1/2 Always On
(Can Dispel). I'm glad Steve posted elsewhere that he already created
this construct in 5th Ed as -1/4 limitation on Persistent Only powers.
> >Additionally, your description is too genre based. There are many
> >games where there are no superpowers. Just alien races with innate
> >abilities. Would all of the Elf and Dwarf racial packages have to
> >be rewritten? (That was sarcasm, btw.)
>
> Under the present rules, I could cast "Dispel Shrinking" on a Dwarf,
> and he will grow to human size, or "Dispel Growth" on a house-sized
> dragon, and it would shrink. In fact, I could shrink a semi by
> casting "Drain Growth".
"Dispel Growth" is not a spell. It is a power construct. Call it
"Down to My Size", a spell which causes large foes to be brought down
to my size. Guess how it's constructed. If you are worried about this
being an abusive spell give your Dragons' growth a couple of Difficult
to Dispel levels. HERO does not like absolutes. There is already a
construct to "prevent" shrinking dragons.
> The only purpose of the new modifier (it could be an Advantage or a
> Limitation, depending upon the overall mechanics) is to prevent
> powers from being Drained or Surpressed that aren't powers, but just
> the way the object is.
I don't understand: "powers... that aren't powers" Just because
something is a power construct does not mean that other power
constructs should be unable to affect them. Should I by my BODY Innate
so that it cannot be Drained? How about my STR? Afterall, Conan is
very strong, it is innate in him. It should not be drainable? No,
Conan should by his STR difficult to dispel if that is the archetype he
is going for.
I am serious about this. Why should Growth/Shrinking/Desolid be
logical to have as Innate powers, but STR and BODY and ED and Flight
not be?
> >Nope. I don't like this power advantage at all. YMMV.
>
> You might wish to reconsider.
Thank you. I did. I decided that for me, I was right the first time.
Of course, Steve did say he included Inherent as a -1/4 limitation
which can only apply to Persistent powers. I hope he exempted
characteristics though.
> Filksinger
Joe
_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:55:33 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Space Battleship
>>A SPD 3 for the Ship overall seems about right for movement purposes,
(but
>>what about all the different weapon elements? There were a LOT of
different
>>energy weapons in turrets and missile launchers of various types and a
crew
>>to man them all independently. She could fire her main and secondary
guns
>>all in a "broadside" or target independently at several different
targets.
>>How to portray this? Again, don't worry about game mechanics yet for
the
>>various specific weapons, we'll get there in due time. I just want to
know
>>how to portray the robust fighting capabilities of the ship in terms of
how
>>many attacks can be targeted per turn or phase.)
>
> Per TUV, given the most liberal option (and I present more than one),
a
>vehicle can fire as many weapons as it has, against as many targets as
it
>has gunners. If it has twenty weapons and five gunners, then those
twenty
>weapons can be distributed among those gunners in any way, either fixed
or
>variable, and fired at up to five targets.
> BTW for a ship of this size I generally recommend that the 180 degree
>arc of fire be taken on all weapons. Different weapons will have
different
>specific arcs, but each will be limited to 180 degrees.
In Trek Hero, when the ship went into battle, I had the Tactical officer
control the weapons, meaning the weapons operated at his SPD with his
OCV-
Each weapon that was adopted by a gunner operated at the Gunner's SPD,
with the Gunner's CV, and operated on the Gunner's phase.
>>With that data in mind, anyone want to take a crack at defining the
Wave
>>Motion Engine in Hero terms?
Teleport 2X10^18 NCM....
> My guess would be either Extra-Dimensional Movement with 4 charges
(warp
>space and back twice), or possibly Teleport with the Mega-Scale
Advantage
>that Steve has mentioned for Hero5.
>
>>Atter that, we get to the really interesting bits!
>
> Oh, funzoids.... :-]
Wheeee!
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/
___________________________________________________________________
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Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:28:41 -0400
From: Kim Foster <nexus@qx.net>
Subject: RE: New Power Advantage:Innate
>Not what I asked. If I have a power that I want Always On but not
>because it is Innate, why would I buy it the right way. Innate
>eliminates the need for Always On because +1/2 Innate (Cannot Dispel)
>is cheaper and more effective that +1 0 END Persistent / -1/2 Always On
>(Can Dispel). I'm glad Steve posted elsewhere that he already created
>this construct in 5th Ed as -1/4 limitation on Persistent Only powers.
An Innate power can also not be Aided, nor fed by Absorption or Transfer.
>
>> >Additionally, your description is too genre based. There are many
>> >games where there are no superpowers. Just alien races with innate
>> >abilities. Would all of the Elf and Dwarf racial packages have to
>> >be rewritten? (That was sarcasm, btw.)
>>
>> Under the present rules, I could cast "Dispel Shrinking" on a Dwarf,
>> and he will grow to human size, or "Dispel Growth" on a house-sized
>> dragon, and it would shrink. In fact, I could shrink a semi by
>> casting "Drain Growth".
>
>"Dispel Growth" is not a spell. It is a power construct. Call it
>"Down to My Size", a spell which causes large foes to be brought down
>to my size. Guess how it's constructed. If you are worried about this
>being an abusive spell give your Dragons' growth a couple of Difficult
>to Dispel levels. HERO does not like absolutes. There is already a
>construct to "prevent" shrinking dragons.
DIfficult to Dispel does not affect Drains. Only Surppress and Dispel. Even
at that, it can still be surppressed. It just takes longer. That is the main
reason I came up with this power advantage. Its not an "absolute" as Innate
can be avoided in a number of ways. "Down to my size" can be constructed as
Shrinking UAO or, perhaps more accurately Tranform large target to targer
"my size"
>
>> The only purpose of the new modifier (it could be an Advantage or a
>> Limitation, depending upon the overall mechanics) is to prevent
>> powers from being Drained or Surpressed that aren't powers, but just
>> the way the object is.
>
>I don't understand: "powers... that aren't powers" Just because
>something is a power construct does not mean that other power
>constructs should be unable to affect them. Should I by my BODY Innate
>so that it cannot be Drained? How about my STR? Afterall, Conan is
>very strong, it is innate in him. It should not be drainable? No,
>Conan should by his STR difficult to dispel if that is the archetype he
>is going for.
>
As mentioned before, Difficult to dispel doens't affect Drains.
>I am serious about this. Why should Growth/Shrinking/Desolid be
>logical to have as Innate powers, but STR and BODY and ED and Flight
>not be?
Its a matter of sfx. An elephants growth is inherent, a natural part of its
make up. Its not "mass alteration" or a magical spell. Like some power
modifiers its not universal, but if you can come with a good reason for it,
it could be applied to other powers as I said.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:27:29 EDT
From: SteveL1979@aol.com
Subject: Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
In a message dated 6/15/99 5:32:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jmucchiello@yahoo.com writes:
<< Of course, Steve did say he included Inherent as a -1/4 limitation which
can only apply to Persistent powers. >>
Assuming I'm the Steve being referred to, there's been a
misunderstanding (perhaps on my part) -- Inherent is a +1/4 *Advantage*, not
a Limitation. Sorry if I caused any confusion.
Steve Long
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:43:07 -0500
From: "Daniel" <drake01@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Hero site & web design trends
First off I'd like to say. Steve, that email didn't really answer anyones
questions or complaints about the site. Anyways.
I have to agree with Michael. With places like Xoom & Geocities adding their
own windows, pop-ups, etc (the price for haveing "free pages" I know). It
would be nice to see a simple non-framed non-java page. I'm not saying get
rid of them totaly, but KISS is still an idea in HTML isn't it? The idea is
to get the information to the public, in desiging all the bells and whistles
you've forgotten that simple message it seems.
And I only half agree with you mark. True this isn't the place to start a
flame war against anyone for their homepage. It does allow us (the fans) to
get what we feel about hero/grg/fuzion/whatever out in the public and see if
we stand alone in our thoughts or if others agree with us in what we feel.
'Nuff said
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:49:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Hero site & web design trends
On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Daniel wrote:
> It
> would be nice to see a simple non-framed non-java page. I'm not saying get
> rid of them totaly, but KISS is still an idea in HTML isn't it? The idea is
> to get the information to the public, in desiging all the bells and whistles
> you've forgotten that simple message it seems.
This is the driving idea behind my page. Keep it simple and easy to read.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!"
Susano Orbatos, _Orion_
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:58:29 -0700
From: Rodger Bright <rodger.bright@cbpr.com>
Subject: Re: Hero site & web design trends
I personally feel that a "well written" site is much more important then the
quantity or generation of "cool" web generation technology used.
I for one think Java, frames, Shockwave and the like are great, and "CAN" make a
site look better and more inviting, but they can also make a site so complicated
it is impossible to decipher how to use the damn thing. I created a site for my
Fantasy Hero game that uses a little bit of java, but it is very basic,
uncluttered, and uses a top-down outline style to make navigation easy.
Just my couple 'o' cents.
- --Rodger
http://i.am/altandara
Daniel wrote:
> First off I'd like to say. Steve, that email didn't really answer anyones
> questions or complaints about the site. Anyways.
>
> I have to agree with Michael. With places like Xoom & Geocities adding their
> own windows, pop-ups, etc (the price for haveing "free pages" I know). It
> would be nice to see a simple non-framed non-java page. I'm not saying get
> rid of them totaly, but KISS is still an idea in HTML isn't it? The idea is
> to get the information to the public, in desiging all the bells and whistles
> you've forgotten that simple message it seems.
> And I only half agree with you mark. True this isn't the place to start a
> flame war against anyone for their homepage. It does allow us (the fans) to
> get what we feel about hero/grg/fuzion/whatever out in the public and see if
> we stand alone in our thoughts or if others agree with us in what we feel.
> 'Nuff said
- --
Rodger Bright, Senior Network Engineer
Copithorne & Bellows
100 First Street 26th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94105
[415]-975-2251 Direct, [415]-284-5200 Main
[415]-243-9664 FAX, [888]-519-8546 Pager
rodger.bright@cbpr.com
rodger.bright.pager@cbpr.com (Alpha Paging)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:08:17 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: RE: New Power Advantage:Innate
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEB78A.68D34A40
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
> From: Joe Mucchiello [SMTP:jmucchiello@yahoo.com]
>
>--- David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com> wrote:
<snip>
>> You misunderstand. You can make the target Grow or Shrink all
you
>> want. You just can't cast "Drain Shrinking", and watch an
amoeba grow
>> to the size of a human being, cast "Drain Desolidification"
and make
>> a ghost solid, or "Drain Growth" and shrink an elephant to
man size.
>
>Not to be annoying but how tall is a target with 2 15-point
levels of
>Growth, Always On when MM hits him with 3 10-point levels of
Shrinking,
>UAO?
He is normal size. Why do you ask?
>He still gets the +6 PD/ED (IIRC) for the growth even though he
is no
>longer 8m tall. If you required MM to do a Growth Drain as
well, this
>inconsistency is removed.
Actually, that isn't an inconsistency. If you remove that
effect, you will create an inconsistency.
If you used the same Power on a normal human, he would get all
of the Advantages of being full sized even though he was shrunk. Why
should Shrinking weaken elephants but not humans? I find your example
less consistent than the original.
>> >Surprisingly, I also think it's too cheap. Two levels of
Difficult
>> >to Dispel (+1/4 each IIRC) would have the same affect of
making it
>> >undrainable, but not be 0 END Persistent for free. Besides
I think
>> >two levels of Difficult to Dispel is more than sufficient to
get the
>> >same result. Under what circumstances would I buy 0 END
Persistent
>> >for +1 and not Innate for +1/2?
>>
>> Because, if you have 12 lvls of Growth, O END Persistent, you
can
>> turn them off?
>
>Not what I asked.
Your last question specified 0 END Persistent, with no mention
of Growth. So yes, that _is_ what you asked. It just wasn't what you
meant to ask.
>If I have a power that I want Always On but not
>because it is Innate, why would I buy it the right way.
Better question. And the answer is, "You are correct. His
version is to cheap."
>Innate
>eliminates the need for Always On because +1/2 Innate (Cannot
Dispel)
>is cheaper and more effective that +1 0 END Persistent / -1/2
Always On
>(Can Dispel). I'm glad Steve posted elsewhere that he already
created
>this construct in 5th Ed as -1/4 limitation on Persistent Only
powers.
So am I. It is a better construct.
>> >Additionally, your description is too genre based. There
are many
>> >games where there are no superpowers. Just alien races with
innate
>> >abilities. Would all of the Elf and Dwarf racial packages
have to
>> >be rewritten? (That was sarcasm, btw.)
>>
>> Under the present rules, I could cast "Dispel Shrinking" on a
Dwarf,
>> and he will grow to human size, or "Dispel Growth" on a
house-sized
>> dragon, and it would shrink. In fact, I could shrink a semi
by
>> casting "Drain Growth".
>
>"Dispel Growth" is not a spell. It is a power construct.
I didn't necessarily intend for it to be a spell. "Cast" was
phrasing brought on by talking about giants and dwarves. Even as a
Power, I still don't know why a Drain would shrink a giant. Nor do I
know why a ghost would become solid because you used the Power Dispel
Desolidification.
>Call it
>"Down to My Size", a spell which causes large foes to be
brought down
>to my size. Guess how it's constructed. If you are worried
about this
>being an abusive spell give your Dragons' growth a couple of
Difficult
>to Dispel levels. HERO does not like absolutes. There is
already a
>construct to "prevent" shrinking dragons.
I have no problem with such a spell, normally. But innate
abilities such as simply being bigger shouldn't simply be Dispelled.
Among other things, this makes shrinking an elephant to the size of a
man much less expensive than shrinking a man to the size of a cat _and_
weakens the elephant for free, while the man gets full strength.
To top it off, anything not human size would become human sized
if killed. While amusing, this is undesirable. Shoot a whale and watch
it deflate as if inflated. Step on an ant hill and be launched into the
air by the suddenly swelling pile of bodies that arise under your feet.
Anyone who took antibiotics would be killed when all the bacteria in his
body lost their Shrinking upon death and swelled to man sized.
>> The only purpose of the new modifier (it could be an
Advantage or a
>> Limitation, depending upon the overall mechanics) is to
prevent
>> powers from being Drained or Surpressed that aren't powers,
but just
>> the way the object is.
>
>I don't understand: "powers... that aren't powers" Just
because
>something is a power construct does not mean that other power
>constructs should be unable to affect them. Should I by my
BODY Innate
>so that it cannot be Drained? How about my STR? Afterall,
Conan is
>very strong, it is innate in him. It should not be drainable?
No,
>Conan should by his STR difficult to dispel if that is the
archetype he
>is going for.
Agreed. However, some things, such as a ghost's lack of
solidity, shouldn't be "dispelled" by Dispell, Supress, or Drain. And
imagine a creature that is literally made of mist. His Desolidification
cannot be "dispelled", either. If it can, what is the justification?
"Oh, Drain Desolidification works against mist, too." "Great! The next
time I see a fog, I'll make it solid!"
True, there are ways around these. However, so long as there are
generic Drains such as "Drain Desolidification", there needs to be a way
to prevent Drains from Draining certain Innate Powers. And a new
Advantage to allow Draining those Powers, anyway, generally limited by
SFX.
>I am serious about this. Why should Growth/Shrinking/Desolid
be
>logical to have as Innate powers, but STR and BODY and ED and
Flight
>not be?
Because Drain is based on the idea of taking Powers and
Characteristics away from human beings. Drain assumes a human, possibly
with "special powers", is the normal default position. It encounters a
number of problems when the default _isn't_ based upon a human.
>> >Nope. I don't like this power advantage at all. YMMV.
>>
>> You might wish to reconsider.
>
>Thank you. I did. I decided that for me, I was right the
first time.
>Of course, Steve did say he included Inherent as a -1/4
limitation
>which can only apply to Persistent powers. I hope he exempted
>characteristics though.
I hope not. Under the present rules, a robotic form either takes
damage from a Drain STR with the SFX "Creates lactic acid in muscles",
or gets immunity from too many SFX for free. Or you end up with using
lots of Power Defense, with the new, rather silly effect that you have a
robot that gets weak when you put lactic acid in its muscles, but only
when you use a whole bunch, yet doesn't actually get damaged from all
that liquid inside its body.
Under the present rules, there are just too many silly things
going on. I have no intention of exterminators being killed in my
campaign when they get buried under hundreds of human-sized termites,
collapsing the house they are fumigating.
Filksinger
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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEB78A.68D34A40--
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:06:59 +0800
From: Allan Dunbar <adunbar@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Hero site & web design trends
At 09:42 14/06/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I visited the revamped Hero Games site tonight and am not very happy with
>the layout. It seems to be fairly typical of commercial sites these days
>to incorporate wide banners, frames and/or button bars into the page,
>squeezing out the actual page content in the process.
>
>I usually use Netscape, which already takes up the top 2.5" of my screen
>with its own button bar. The newly designed Hero page fills the next 2"
>with a black strip containing a button bar and gold Hero logo. My screen
>is now half full. Subtract 0.75" for the Win95 staus bar at the bottom of
>the screen and I only have 2.5" left to view the page itself in! This is
>not satisfactory. Hell, the "Under Construction" image alone fills three
>times that space.
>
>Web designers need to take pity on those of us with 15" monitor screens and
>make the banners, fixed frames, and button bars as small and unobtrusive as
>possible.
>
>Damon
>
>
If you can, simply set your resolution higher. Fit more on the same screen.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:13:23 -0400
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net>
Subject: Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
At 06:27 PM 6/15/99 EDT, SteveL1979@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 6/15/99 5:32:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>jmucchiello@yahoo.com writes:
>
><< Of course, Steve did say he included Inherent as a -1/4 limitation which
>can only apply to Persistent powers. >>
>
> Assuming I'm the Steve being referred to, there's been a
>misunderstanding (perhaps on my part) -- Inherent is a +1/4 *Advantage*, not
>a Limitation. Sorry if I caused any confusion.
You were and good. As an advantage it makes more sense. But why would
anyone by Difficult to Dispel for +1/4 when this is +1/4?
How does it work with regard to Characteristics? I hope that would be
illegal.
Joe
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:15:29 +0800
From: Allan Dunbar <adunbar@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
At 10:55 14/06/99 -0400, you wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> on Mon, 14 Jun 1999
>| Yes, but an Energy Blast is a power that normally (with no additional points
>| spent) affects things other than the owner. Teleport only affects other
>| animates if you pay additional points. The amount of those additional
>| points determines how much extra mass you can move with you.
>
>Here is another example: Telekenesis. 25 Strength TK with AoE affects each
>individual object in that area with 25 Strength. That means all objects in
>the area massing 800Kg or less can be picked up and moved.
>
>The multiplication of effect over the area is a function of the Area of
>Effect advantage, not the base power.
No, see, I have to disagree. Otherwise you could have someone with 25 STR
AoE TK moving around a couple of hundred tonnes in no time. If you have ten
objects, each 800kg, then by your statement, if I have interpreted it
correctly, someone with the aforementioned power could move all of them, at
the same time, effectively moving 8 tonnes, if they were within the AoE of
his TK.
And it just does not work like that. Therefore, AoE Teleport, with an
additional 800kg worth of mass multiples, could move 800kg only, as long as
that is within the area of effect, and only if that 800kg was willing to go
with the teleporter. To teleport objects that are unwilling (or to make
people fly who are unwilling) you need to buy Usuable against Others.
Regards
Allan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:22:04 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: New Power Advantage:Innate
> You were and good. As an advantage it makes more sense. But why would
> anyone by Difficult to Dispel for +1/4 when this is +1/4?
You wouldn't, unless the power you were buying it for didn't fulfill
whatever requirements this new advantage had. It sounds like it can only be
taken if the power is Always On, but that may not be true.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:27:23 +0800
From: Allan Dunbar <adunbar@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>Actually, he's isn't necessarily going to be, either, since many people
>interpet a zero range area effect to not necessarily have to have the user
>be at the centerpoint. I've let people do such things and be right at the
>edge of the area.
>
>
>
What a bizarre interpretation of the no range limitation. Of course you are
going to be at the centre of the effect, you can't move it away from
yourself so that you are at the edge of it. An explosion for instance, how
do you make the centre of a power with explosion on it, occur over there, so
that you are at the edge of it, if you bought no range. You can't,
therefore you are going to be right in the middle of whatever you set off...
"Surrender or die humans."
"I have set my Fusion reactor to overload, you have ten seconds to clear the
area...8...7...6...5..."
"ALRIGHT!"
*sometime later*
"Uh, Technocrat, you didn't really set your reactor to overload did you?"
"Of course I did, the threat would not have had any value if I hadn't been
willing to go through with it."
"Uh huh. How did you get into our team again?"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:39:22 -0400
From: Joe Mucchiello <why@superlink.net>
Subject: RE: New Power Advantage:Innate
At 08:08 PM 6/15/99 -0400, David Nasset wrote:
>> From: Joe Mucchiello [SMTP:jmucchiello@yahoo.com]
> >If I have a power that I want Always On but not
> >because it is Innate, why would I buy it the right way.
>
> Better question. And the answer is, "You are correct. His
>version is to cheap."
Thanks for agreeing.
> >I'm glad Steve posted elsewhere that he already created
> >this construct in 5th Ed as -1/4 limitation on Persistent Only
> >powers.
>
> So am I. It is a better construct.
Ooops. He corrected that to a +1/4 advantage on persistent powers.
> >I am serious about this. Why should Growth/Shrinking/Desolid be
> >logical to have as Innate powers, but STR and BODY and ED and Flight
> >not be?
>
> Because Drain is based on the idea of taking Powers and
>Characteristics away from human beings. Drain assumes a human, possibly
>with "special powers", is the normal default position. It encounters a
>number of problems when the default _isn't_ based upon a human.
What? Drain lowers the active points of a power construct. It has
absolutely nothing to do with being or not being human. Why can't CON be
Innate in Dwarves? Aren't wings inherent to birds? Can their flight be
drained? Why just shrinking, growth and desolid? What really makes
something Innate or Inherent? Why would height be innate but not swimming
in a fish? This is my question.
Joe
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:16:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>>Actually, he's isn't necessarily going to be, either, since many people
>>interpet a zero range area effect to not necessarily have to have the user
>>be at the centerpoint. I've let people do such things and be right at the
>>edge of the area.
>>
>>
>>
>What a bizarre interpretation of the no range limitation. Of course you are
>going to be at the centre of the effect, you can't move it away from
>yourself so that you are at the edge of it. An explosion for instance, how
>do you make the centre of a power with explosion on it, occur over there, so
>that you are at the edge of it, if you bought no range. You can't,
>therefore you are going to be right in the middle of whatever you set off...
There's no 'of course' about it. Since you're still within one hex of the
effect, it's still not ranged. You still can't put it a half a block away.
A melee attack is 'no range' but it still doesn't happen in the hex with
you. I can see an argument that you may not be able to be at the edge of a
radius attack, but I don't believe for a moment that someone buying a zero
range cone or line or single hex has to be in that target hex, any more than
someone with a zero range energy blast can only use it on the hex he's in.
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #400
*****************************
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Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 04:14 PM