Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 403
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 6:25 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #403
champ-l-digest Wednesday, June 16 1999 Volume 01 : Number 403
In this issue:
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Space Battleship
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
Re: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
Re: Swapping stats
RE: Space Battleship
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
Draining Innate abilities
RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
RE: Swapping stats
Clarifying a point (was Re: Swapping stats)
RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
dialects
RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
Re: Draining Innate abilities
RE: Swapping stats
RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
Re: Swapping stats
Re: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
Re: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
Area Effect (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)
Darkness (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)
Re: Darkness (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)
Re: Draining Innate abilities
Re: Darkness (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:33:00 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> on Wed, 16 Jun 1999
>| "Powers with this Advantage can be used against inanimate objects of
>| approximately human mass; this inanimate mass can be increased x2 for
an
>| additional +1/4 Advantage (It's very expensive to get enough
Teleport
>| Usable Against Others to Teleport the Earth.) The target's mass is
only
>| relevant for inanimate objects."
>
>That... makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Advantages modify how a
>power functions. That is why they are called power modifiers. Having
one
>that fundamentally changes the basic cost structure of a power is
>just... wrong.
But it doesn't modify the basic cost at all.
UAO is an extension of UBO. With UBO, you give others a Power, and they
can use it. In UAO, you give others a Power, and they _must_ use it.
Thus, Teleport UAO can move anyone, because if the target had that
Power, they could use it, no matter how much they weighed.
OTOH, if it affected inanimate objects the same way, then it would be a
cheap way of buying large amounts of Extra Mass. Therefore, you must pay
for the Extra Mass with inanimate objects.
I'm not claiming this is rational, mind you. But, from a real world
standpoint, many game mechanics aren't, especially powers. Irrationality
is often needed for game balance.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: 16 Jun 1999 13:44:02 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Space Battleship
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* Ben Brown <benbrown@primenet.com> on Wed, 16 Jun 1999
| groucho, harpo, chico, and sometimes zeppo
Those are 'Marks' unit prefixes, not Metric. :)
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE3Z+Jigl+vIlSVSNkRAvayAJ93s3/c9cjbAX2gfAeALNCPg+jcqgCg+20w
0xkmR2TKy+kR7yDQ+y72pH8=
=KG/X
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: 16 Jun 1999 13:54:08 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com> on Wed, 16 Jun 1999
| But it doesn't modify the basic cost at all.
It *does* modify the cost structure. Teleportation gets incrased mass,
regardless of animation, at double mass for 5 points. UAO changes it so
that doubling mass is a +1/4 advantage. Evil. Bad. Yuck. At best, this
mass rule should only apply to powers that do not already have a means of
increasing affected mass, which means just about everything but
Teleportation and Telekenesis.
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE3Z+TAgl+vIlSVSNkRAqxZAJ9ZXk3eY41fiw+CGs8WKO1EjsLyZgCgrgEF
i6anNTyStSBzxU0fqMhbUgo=
=funY
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ of skin.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: 16 Jun 1999 14:02:06 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com> on Wed, 16 Jun 1999
| Next weeks lesson is on why water freezes at 0 and boils at 100.
... it does? I thought water freezes at 273.15 and boils at 373.15.
Oh, wait... you mean Centigrade! You really should use unit measurements
if you do not mean absolute degrees. :)
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE3Z+aegl+vIlSVSNkRApumAJ4uNECcR/tsbbyZVloTH4IiVF7cVACgtmvX
6WjzjSi0JwXdemVRj7SE7E0=
=n3jV
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 14:10:56 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
Oh Rat, you clever monkey! You've confounded my nefarious plans for a
mind-bendingly dull lecture series on the metric system! It would have
worked too if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Yes, the degrees are in Celsius, 273.15 degrees off the Kelvin scale.
Now, who knows what a hectare is?
BRI
] * Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com> on Wed, 16 Jun 1999
] | Next weeks lesson is on why water freezes at 0 and boils at 100.
]
] ... it does? I thought water freezes at 273.15 and boils at 373.15.
]
] Oh, wait... you mean Centigrade! You really should use unit
] measurements
] if you do not mean absolute degrees. :)
] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
] Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
] Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
]
] iD8DBQE3Z+aegl+vIlSVSNkRApumAJ4uNECcR/tsbbyZVloTH4IiVF7cVACgtmvX
] 6WjzjSi0JwXdemVRj7SE7E0=
] =n3jV
] -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
]
] --
] Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball
] on concrete.
] Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
] PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 14:44:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Brian Wawrow wrote:
> Now, who knows what a hectare is?
A heckin' long stare? A hero of the Trojan War?
(either that or 100 acres)
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
The Phoenicians were not great philosophers... they pondered the simpler
questions, like "If I stick this spear in you, can I take your stuff?",
"Do you have relatives that would be mad if I took your stuff?", and
"Can my relatives beat up your relatives?"
(c) Doug Robarchek
------------------------------
Date: 16 Jun 1999 15:02:40 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com> on Wed, 16 Jun 1999
| (either that or 100 acres)
Nope. The acre is an Imperial unit, a square area slightly larger than 2
miles on a side.
One are is 100 square meters (an area 10 meters by 10 meters). A hectare
is 100 ares, or 10,000 square meters. Looking at my references table, a
hectare is 2.47 acres.
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE3Z/TQgl+vIlSVSNkRAosuAJ44LTnAatsqtbwXtXPlYVXLxubHKgCeIc/G
5J0l04tpFweCyJTkp7bpWZI=
=es6V
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ of skin.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:05:01 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
In fact, a hectare is an area measuring 100m by 100m or 10 000 square
meters. It comes out to something like 2.47104393 acres.
Right. How much mass does one cubic centimeter of water have?
Hint: This is how the base unit of mass is defined in the metric system.
I'm having flashbacks to Grade 5 science.
Sorry. I'll stop now.
BRI
] On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Brian Wawrow wrote:
]
] > Now, who knows what a hectare is?
]
] A heckin' long stare? A hero of the Trojan War?
]
] (either that or 100 acres)
]
] --
] Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com -
] http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
]
] The Phoenicians were not great philosophers... they pondered
] the simpler
] questions, like "If I stick this spear in you, can I take
] your stuff?",
] "Do you have relatives that would be mad if I took your stuff?", and
] "Can my relatives beat up your relatives?"
] (c) Doug Robarchek
]
]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:35:01 -0600
From: "Terry Wilcox" <terry@arcane.com>
Subject: RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
> Right. How much mass does one cubic centimeter of water have?
> Hint: This is how the base unit of mass is defined in the metric system.
We don't use cubic centimetres these days. We use millilitres.
And it's metre, not meter. A meter measures something, a metre is a unit of
length.
How many Newtons do you weigh? What's your mass in slugs? What's your metric
astrological sign?
Terry Wilcox
terry@arcane.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:55:46 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
At 12:16 PM 6/16/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
>* "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com> on Wed, 16 Jun 1999
>| Your first post on the subject, dated June 6th, 1999 6:49PM, signed by
>| you using your PGP key, states, "You cannot use Transfer on yourself".
>
>Right. You cannot use Transfer on yourself. That does not mean it cannot
>affect you. Transfer reflected back at yourself certainly will affect you
>(assuming that it can be reflected in the first place). Transfer with AoE
>and you within the area of effect certainly will affect you.
So far the only reason I've seen you give for a character not being able
to use Transfer on himself is that attacking oneself is not a
psychologically normal action, yet you've agreed that a gun turned on
oneself would certainly affect oneself. What makes Transfer different from
RKA in this respect?
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:53:03 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: Space Battleship
At 06:08 PM 6/16/1999 +0200, Henrik Giese wrote:
>>>>
<excerpt>
<smaller>You forgot -peta- (10^15).</smaller>
<smaller>(Sorry, couldn't help myself)</smaller>
</excerpt><<<<<<<<
I did forget about peta.
(He's a nice-a guy, though.) ;-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:57:36 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
At 12:13 PM 6/16/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
>* "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> on Wed, 16 Jun 1999
>| "Powers with this Advantage can be used against inanimate objects of
>| approximately human mass; this inanimate mass can be increased x2 for an
>| additional +1/4 Advantage (It's very expensive to get enough Teleport
>| Usable Against Others to Teleport the Earth.) The target's mass is only
>| relevant for inanimate objects."
>
>That... makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Advantages modify how a
>power functions. That is why they are called power modifiers. Having one
>that fundamentally changes the basic cost structure of a power is
>just... wrong.
However, it is the Hero System Rulebook, Fourth Edition, and it's how
Usable Against Others works, at least for another two months.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/Sarrusophone
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:36:04 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
At 02:02 PM 6/16/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com> on Wed, 16 Jun 1999
>| Next weeks lesson is on why water freezes at 0 and boils at 100.
>
>... it does? I thought water freezes at 273.15 and boils at 373.15.
>
>Oh, wait... you mean Centigrade! You really should use unit measurements
>if you do not mean absolute degrees. :)
Actually, I think he means Celsius.... ;-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:36:53 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
At 02:10 PM 6/16/1999 -0400, Brian Wawrow wrote:
>Oh Rat, you clever monkey! You've confounded my nefarious plans for a
>mind-bendingly dull lecture series on the metric system! It would have
>worked too if it weren't for you meddling kids!
>
>Yes, the degrees are in Celsius, 273.15 degrees off the Kelvin scale.
>
>Now, who knows what a hectare is?
Isn't that one of the Green Lantern's enemies, from the Silver Age? ;-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:37:59 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
At 01:35 PM 6/16/1999 -0600, Terry Wilcox wrote:
>
>> Right. How much mass does one cubic centimeter of water have?
>> Hint: This is how the base unit of mass is defined in the metric system.
>
>We don't use cubic centimetres these days. We use millilitres.
>
>And it's metre, not meter. A meter measures something, a metre is a unit of
>length.
In the United States (and noplace else in the English-speaking world
that I'm aware of), it's meter.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:54:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
On Wed, 16 Jun 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 01:35 PM 6/16/1999 -0600, Terry Wilcox wrote:
> >> Right. How much mass does one cubic centimeter of water have?
> >> Hint: This is how the base unit of mass is defined in the metric system.
> >We don't use cubic centimetres these days. We use millilitres.
> >And it's metre, not meter. A meter measures something, a metre is a unit of
> >length.
> In the United States (and noplace else in the English-speaking world
> that I'm aware of), it's meter.
I happen to like English words: colour, flavour, aluminium, etc.
...they even have different game snacks than we do! (found that
out in an issue of the UK RPG magazine "Arcane").
Shall we compare Aussie/UK/American dialects and slang? :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:00:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Mucchiello <jmucchiello@yahoo.com>
Subject: Draining Innate abilities
> >BTW, why can't ghosts be made solid?
>
> They can. But a "Drain Desolid" designed to stop Kitty Pride from
> phasing and the Vision from sending large portions of his molecules
> into another dimension shouldn't really affect the ghost. To solidify
> a ghost, you would probably have to Transform it into something not a
> ghost. This is probably even more true for a creature made of mist,
> gas, or water. "Drain Desolid" is hokey enough without giving it the
> Power to force spirits to become solid, turn mist into some sort of
> solid substance obviously much more dense than mist, and freeze
> water, all at the same time.
I disagree with this completely. You should always avoid Transform
where something else exists to do it. If Drain Desolid is SFXed as a
solidifying of molecular cohesion, it cannot effect the ghost.
Likewise, if it's SFX is to pull ghosts back into this plane of
existence, then it cannot effect Kitty Pride or Vision.
> >Seems like that would be a useful
> >spell/power for fighting ghosts.
>
> It would be. 1d6 Transformation: Ghost into living being, Cumulative.
Who said the ghost would be living? He could remain undead. All I was
doing was making him substantial. Removing his (lowercase) innate
ability to move through objects solid on this plane.
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:58:00 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
>
>> Right. How much mass does one cubic centimeter of water have?
>> Hint: This is how the base unit of mass is defined in the metric
system.
>
>We don't use cubic centimetres these days. We use millilitres.
But _we_ do still use cubic centimeters, though not often.
>And it's metre, not meter. A meter measures something, a metre is a
unit of
>length.
Country-dependent spelling, like color vs colour. Meter is correct in
the US.
>How many Newtons do you weigh?
Newtons are not a measure of weight.
>What's your mass in slugs?
Banana slugs, tiger slugs, or one of the Northwest's ten thousand other
varieties?
>What's your metric
>astrological sign?
Gee, that's a tough one.:)
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:05:02 -0700
From: "Harvey, Michael" <michael.harvey@intel.com>
Subject: RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
> Nope. The acre is an Imperial unit, a square area slightly
> larger than 2 miles on a side.
Huh? An acre is 43560 sq. ft., so there are 640 acres in a square mile.
Put another way, an acre is a rectangle one furlong (660') in length, and
one chain (66') in width... which is an approximation of a typical field in
medieval times. So, not very intuitive in modern times when fields cover
hundreds of acres and only a tiny fraction of the population actually works
in them, but very meaningful and intuitive to the medieval peasant. For
example, a furlong is the distance an ox can plow before it needs a rest.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:01:00 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: RE: Swapping stats
From: Bob Greenwade [SMTP:bob.greenwade@klock.com]
<snip>
>
> So far the only reason I've seen you give for a character not being
able
>to use Transfer on himself is that attacking oneself is not a
>psychologically normal action, yet you've agreed that a gun turned on
>oneself would certainly affect oneself. What makes Transfer different
from
>RKA in this respect?
I _think_ that Rat has indicated that his position is that a person is
not immune to their own Transfer, only that Transfer should not be used
upon oneself as the intended purpose of the power.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:04:00 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: Clarifying a point (was Re: Swapping stats)
Rat,
There seems to be some disagreement as to just what it is you are
saying. Please answer the following question.
If I have the Power Transfer, _designed strictly to attack others_, and
turn it on myself, does it work?
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:09:42 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
Do you not see that these archaic measurements will drag the U.S. into
anarchy and darkness! Convert! My thoery is that the U.S. won't change to
the metric system just to spite the French.
] Huh? An acre is 43560 sq. ft., so there are 640 acres in a
] square mile.
] Put another way, an acre is a rectangle one furlong (660') in
] length, and
] one chain (66') in width... which is an approximation of a
] typical field in
] medieval times. So, not very intuitive in modern times when
] fields cover
] hundreds of acres and only a tiny fraction of the population
] actually works
] in them, but very meaningful and intuitive to the medieval
] peasant. For
] example, a furlong is the distance an ox can plow before it
] needs a rest.
]
] Mike
]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:19:12 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
At 12:36 PM 6/16/99 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 02:10 PM 6/16/1999 -0400, Brian Wawrow wrote:
>>Oh Rat, you clever monkey! You've confounded my nefarious plans for a
>>mind-bendingly dull lecture series on the metric system! It would have
>>worked too if it weren't for you meddling kids!
>>
>>Yes, the degrees are in Celsius, 273.15 degrees off the Kelvin scale.
>>
>>Now, who knows what a hectare is?
>
> Isn't that one of the Green Lantern's enemies, from the Silver Age? ;-]
no, its the guy that Achilles chased around Troy for days on end, and
eventually killed because he accidentally killed Achilles' uh, good friend.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:40:25 PDT
From: Jesse Thomas <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
On Wed, 16 Jun 1999 Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com> wrote:
>
>Do you not see that these archaic measurements will drag the U.S. into
>anarchy and darkness! Convert! My thoery is that the U.S. won't change to
>the metric system just to spite the French.
You make that sound like a bad thing, somehow.
And, for the record, they did teach me the metric system in school. Several
times. I like it, personally. Sadly, it seems it was beyond the capacity
of my fellow students, and so the US remains mired in the gap between the
Imperial and metric systems of measurement. Sad.
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:45:08 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: dialects
I'd like to have Canadian colloquialisms counted as well.
pop, not soda
grade 6, not the 6th grade.
a piece means a small chunk of hashish, not a gun.
colleges offer 2 or 3 year diploma programs, universities offer degrees
booty means pirate treasure, not an ass
mild means 'not too cold', usually used early in the spring
gun is a hunting rifle, never a pistol or assault weapon
shinny is a game of pick-up hockey played on an outdoor rink
shitkickers are big work boots with steel toes and thinsulate lining
a warm knit cap is a toque [pronounced too-k], not a ski hat
a now suit big enough for an adult is a sk'doo suit
a sk'doo is a snowmobile
'down south' means Florida or Arizona, where you spend the winter if you're
retired
cheerleading, as a hobby, is largely regarded as a stupid thing
'the french' means the government and/or people of Quebec.
beer has at least 5.5% alchohol. anything less is pisswater
pisswater means light beer or American beer
rye [eg. Canadian Club, Crown Royal] is whiskey made from rye grains
'south of the border' means Buffalo <gag, what a hole>
'the lake' or 'up north' is where your weekend cottage is
'weak ankles' is your only excuse if you can't skate
a fishhut is a little plywood structure you drag out onto a frozen lake to
sit in while you go ice fishing - not me, but some people do it
hose can be a verb as in 'Man, I'm so hosed!'
This is fun but I'm gotta boogie. I'm running my game tonight! yum yum yum!
G'Day, eh?
BRI
] Shall we compare Aussie/UK/American dialects and slang? :)
]
]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 14:49:30 -0600
From: "Terry Wilcox" <terry@arcane.com>
Subject: RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
David Nasset wrote
> >We don't use cubic centimetres these days. We use millilitres.
> But _we_ do still use cubic centimeters, though not often.
I was responding to Brian, who I thought was a fellow Canadian. _We_ use
millimetres.
> >And it's metre, not meter. A meter measures something, a metre is a
> unit of
> >length.
> Country-dependent spelling, like color vs colour. Meter is correct in
> the US.
I'm surprised by how many Americans had to point that out. US is correct in
the US, but U.S.A is correct everywhere else, especially in countries named
United States of Something Else.
> >How many Newtons do you weigh?
> Newtons are not a measure of weight.
Yes they are. Weight is mass * acceleration, which is measured in Newtons.
kilograms are not a measure of weight.
> >What's your mass in slugs?
> Banana slugs, tiger slugs, or one of the Northwest's ten thousand other
> varieties?
Imperial system, measure of mass = slugs. Not commonly used for some reason.
Terry Wilcox
terry@arcane.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:49:00 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: Re: Draining Innate abilities
>From: Joe Mucchiello [SMTP:jmucchiello@yahoo.com]
<snip>
>
>I disagree with this completely. You should always avoid Transform
>where something else exists to do it.
Good rule of thumb, bad rule. Using this rule, many horrendously abusive
powers using UAO would be the right way to go, rather than a reasonably
priced Transform.
>If Drain Desolid is SFXed as a
>solidifying of molecular cohesion, it cannot effect the ghost.
>Likewise, if it's SFX is to pull ghosts back into this plane of
>existence, then it cannot effect Kitty Pride or Vision.
You are basing this on SFX rather than upon the Power and Advantages and
Limitations. This is not unreasonable; in fact, it makes a great deal of
sense.
However, it damages play balance. If you do this, then you are
penalizing people who bought Drain Desolid, while granting a free
defense to people who bought unusual SFX on their Powers. The more
unusual the SFX, the greater the likelihood that they are immune to
Powers aimed at countering them.
For example, let us suppose that I want to create a character who is, by
nature, Desolid all the time. I discover that, in the campaign universe,
95% of all Desolid beings go Desolid due to dimensional shifting, and
that, because of this, 95% of all Suppresses, Dispels, Drains, and
Transfers that are aimed at preventing the use of Desolidification work
against dimensional shifting. So I create Mist, who is Desolid because
he is a creature made of mist. I now am immune to 95% of all Drains in
the campaign universe for free.
OTOH, if we include Innate (and, preferably, other, similar,
Advantages), then Mist is the one who pays for the immunity, rather than
having the immunity for free.
>> >Seems like that would be a useful
>> >spell/power for fighting ghosts.
>>
>> It would be. 1d6 Transformation: Ghost into living being, Cumulative.
>
>Who said the ghost would be living? He could remain undead. All I was
>doing was making him substantial. Removing his (lowercase) innate
>ability to move through objects solid on this plane.
He wouldn't have to be living. You could change him into a mobile
corpse, for example. However, using your method, he would be solid,
capable of being cut, take STUN from being punched, subject to bleeding
rules, etc.,. Sounds pretty much like living to me.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:57:46 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: Swapping stats
At 01:01 PM 6/16/1999 -0400, David Nasset wrote:
>From: Bob Greenwade [SMTP:bob.greenwade@klock.com]
><snip>
>>
>> So far the only reason I've seen you give for a character not being
>able
>>to use Transfer on himself is that attacking oneself is not a
>>psychologically normal action, yet you've agreed that a gun turned on
>>oneself would certainly affect oneself. What makes Transfer different
>from
>>RKA in this respect?
>
>I _think_ that Rat has indicated that his position is that a person is
>not immune to their own Transfer, only that Transfer should not be used
>upon oneself as the intended purpose of the power.
No, he stated outright in the part that I quoted (and you snipped), "You
cannot use Transfer on yourself."
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:57:00 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
From: Jesse Thomas [SMTP:haerandir@hotmail.com]
<snip>
>And, for the record, they did teach me the metric system in school.
Several
>times. I like it, personally. Sadly, it seems it was beyond the
capacity
>of my fellow students, and so the US remains mired in the gap between
the
>Imperial and metric systems of measurement. Sad.
It always seemed to me that the problem the US has with teaching the
metric system is that they start by teaching you how to convert to the
old system. What they should do is teach it just the same as the present
measurements. They don't convert to feet to teach you feet; they give
you a ruler and tell you to measure things. Then they teach you how
different measurements in the US system compare to each other. _Then_
they teach you to convert to other systems, like metric.
This results in an intuitive grasp of what the various US measurements
are: a pound weighs so much, a foot is so long, etc. Teach the metric
system the same way. Knowing the conversion from kilometers to miles is
less important than teaching what a kilometer is to begin with, and a
kilometer is no more defined by comparing it to a mile than the other
way around.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 14:08:00 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
From: Bob Greenwade [SMTP:bob.greenwade@klock.com]
>At 01:01 PM 6/16/1999 -0400, David Nasset wrote:
<snip>
>>I _think_ that Rat has indicated that his position is that a person is
>>not immune to their own Transfer, only that Transfer should not be
used
>>upon oneself as the intended purpose of the power.
>
> No, he stated outright in the part that I quoted (and you snipped),
"You
>cannot use Transfer on yourself."
He has also stated outright that he did not state that, in unusual
circumstances, you could not turn your damaging Powers, even Transfer,
upon yourself. He has also said you could turn it on yourself, _in
unusual circumstances_.
Even if we agreed that Rat did originally intend to say that a Transfer
turned upon yourself would just bounce, he has since indicated
otherwise. Let's let him out gracefully.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: 16 Jun 1999 17:14:00 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com> on Wed, 16 Jun 1999
| >How many Newtons do you weigh?
| Newtons are not a measure of weight.
Weight is a force. Pound is a measurement of force. Newton is also a
measurement of force. Yes, weight is measured in Newtons.
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE3aBOYgl+vIlSVSNkRAggGAJwIN9pfn0tBhdnuALR4/CnKXveFhACfUVAf
aQ+TTHkBbs5AFK9GFoFuh68=
=fpzl
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ Earth, presumably from outer space.
------------------------------
Date: 16 Jun 1999 17:14:56 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* "Harvey, Michael" <michael.harvey@intel.com> on Wed, 16 Jun 1999
| Huh? An acre is 43560 sq. ft., so there are 640 acres in a square mile.
Duh... is what I get for trying to do the conversion incorrectly in my head.
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE3aBPQgl+vIlSVSNkRAo9jAKCtwtmagEwufOy9Gkxtypauc8kWBgCgk/SP
670fnsXEJcNSI5XswuzUBJY=
=IfkS
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:27:32 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: Area Effect (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)
Christopher Taylor wrote:
> >I left force wall the way it is, but I changed Darkness,
> Images, and Change
> >Environment because their area effect rules blow. Each one
> has NO area,
> >affecting only a single target. To affect an area, simply
> use the AE rules
> >as printed for any other power.
Bill Svitavsky wrote:
> That causes a problem with Change Environment, though. A 60
> active point
> CE using this system, doubling the radius for every +1/4, has over a
> billion mile radius (2^40 inches) - roughly the distance from
> the Earth to
> Saturn. It's even worse with the system others have proposed, where CE
> starts with an area affect as usual, but doubles with each
> +1/4 advantage;
> that more than covers the Solar System.
>
> Consistent cost structures are nice, but in this case I think
> there's a
> good reason for different systems. The ability to alter the
> environment on
> multiple planets seems a little out of proportion to other 60
> point powers;
> can you imagine power gamers sticking one of these CE's in
> every multipower?
Of course you have to change the base costs for those powers (Images and
Darkness).
Change Environment has more problems than its goofy area effect rules. I'm
curious about Long's changes in the new edition, but it still strikes me as
a power that costs lots to do nothing. (I don't think I've ever bought it
for a PC.)
grant
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 14:47:55 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: Darkness (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)
Donald Tsang wrote:
> Basically, since the Power already lists a cost for
> "affecting more stuff",
> you shouldn't try to sneak "LOTS more stuff" into the
> equation by buying
> another advantage. You can't buy (Darkness, 1" radius), then
> buy "Area
> Effect Radius, x256 (+3)" for a total of 40 points, and use
> it the same
> as (Darkness, 256" radius) bought for 2560 pts. You just can't.
But this is because Darkness, due to historical precedent, works screwy.
I really wish that the powers could be standardized (again). Teleport is
just another example of this. All the movement powers should work
identically. If they did, we wouldn't have to argue about AE teleport.
(Although I can't tell if Teleport should be a Movement Power or one that
requires an attack roll, and our writers and editors probably couldn't
either.)
grant
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:56:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: Re: Darkness (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)
> From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
>
> I really wish that the powers could be standardized (again). Teleport is
> just another example of this. All the movement powers should work
> identically. If they did, we wouldn't have to argue about AE teleport.
> (Although I can't tell if Teleport should be a Movement Power or one that
> requires an attack roll, and our writers and editors probably couldn't
> either.)
>
IMO teleport usable AGAINST others is an offensive power / attack power.....
However, teleport usable by others or plain-vanilla teleport is a movement
power...
Curt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:03:27 -0700
From: James Jandebeur <jimalj@best.com>
Subject: Re: Draining Innate abilities
> OTOH, if we include Innate (and, preferably, other, similar,
> Advantages), then Mist is the one who pays for the immunity, rather than
> having the immunity for free.
Actually, I have always MUCH preferred to give the attacker a limitation
to cover these things than make the defender pay for it. It goes with
the idea of rewarding a well thought out character: the person who has
an Affects Desolid EB that only affects certain classes of desolid is
better (and, in fact, dumping Affects Desolid and just using the powers
normal vulnerability has appeal). If you have a Power Drain Growth that
wouldn't logically affect an elephant (and there are special effects
that would), you get a small Limitation for it, probably (perhaps only a
- -1/4 lumped together "reasonable" limitation).
Ah, well. That's not the way the wind is blowing.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:22:55 -0700
From: Rodger Bright <rodger.bright@cbpr.com>
Subject: Re: Darkness (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)
I was under the impression that "Usable Against Others" still requires that the
target be willing to be teleported. There is no way (I could be wrong here) to
teleport an enemy away, or else I would have 200" teleport and my only
offenseive move would be to teleport the bad guys 200" in the air. If they
didn't have gliding or flight they would basically be dead. (Unless they were
of the super-brick variety).
- --Rodger
Curt Hicks wrote:
> > From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
> >
> > I really wish that the powers could be standardized (again). Teleport is
> > just another example of this. All the movement powers should work
> > identically. If they did, we wouldn't have to argue about AE teleport.
> > (Although I can't tell if Teleport should be a Movement Power or one that
> > requires an attack roll, and our writers and editors probably couldn't
> > either.)
> >
>
> IMO teleport usable AGAINST others is an offensive power / attack power.....
> However, teleport usable by others or plain-vanilla teleport is a movement
> power...
>
> Curt
- --
Rodger Bright, Senior Network Engineer
Copithorne & Bellows
100 First Street 26th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94105
[415]-975-2251 Direct, [415]-284-5200 Main
[415]-243-9664 FAX, [888]-519-8546 Pager
rodger.bright@cbpr.com
rodger.bright.pager@cbpr.com (Alpha Paging)
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #403
*****************************
Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 04:14 PM