Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 406

Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 406
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 11:02 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #406

champ-l-digest Thursday, June 17 1999 Volume 01 : Number 406

In this issue:

Re: Space Battleship
Re: Clarifying a point(attn:HERO)
Re: dialects
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: dialects
Re: dialects
Re: dialects
Re: dialects
Re: dialects
Re: Swapping stats
RE: Darkness (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)
Byronic HERO
Re: Byronic HERO
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
House Rules that become "real."
Re: House Rules that become "real."
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: subscription change
RE: Darkness (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)
Re: dialects
Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage
Re: Darkness (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)
RE: Space Battleship
RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]
Re: dialects
Re: Area Effect (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)
Re: Byronic HERO
Re: Byronic HERO
RE: House Rules that become "real."

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:00:24 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Space Battleship

Logan Darklighter wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 7:08 PM
> Subject: RE: Space Battleship
>
> >At 05:06 PM 6/16/99 +0200, you wrote:
> >>
> >> Laser Cannons and Rockets are probably RKA and EB depending.
> >>Missles are best done up as seperate vehicles that are carried by
> >>the ship. The last time I did up the Argo, the Wave Motion Gun looked
> >>something
> >>like this: 30D6RKA, Extended Range, 4 x1 charge clips, 1 turrn to reload,
> >> Giving the WMG about a 23KM
> >>range (we played 1 Cap Ship hex is 512 standard hexes) and costs 107
> points,
> >>********************
> >
> >Worth pointing out that the Wave Motion Gun had recoil. The main engine
> >fired with the gun to counteract the recoil, but in one ep they disengaged
> >this function and used the gun to push the ship backwards.
>
> Yes, that is true. Although, from a game mechanics standpoint, it doesn't
> really effect anything. It's just a reminder that the gun does do knockback.
> In fact, you can see often see ships getting pushed backwards somewhat,
> before going up like a piece of paper in a blast furnace, that is....
>
> I suppose if you were on the extreme edge of the range of the gun, like,
> say, a ship to the far rear of the formation, and actually survived the
> blast, you'd be pushed back considerably.
>

I forgot about the recoil, that means that two additional disads can
be added tothe weapon. Namely Strength Min (likely 1/3) and
Strength Does Not Add. This would allow 4 more levels of
Extended Range which would give a range or 14 mega meters
and cost 156 points. Of course the ship would need a strength
of 150 to fire the gun though.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:00:22 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Clarifying a point(attn:HERO)

At 10:02 PM 6/16/99 -0400, you wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com> on Wed, 16 Jun 1999
>| If I have the Power Transfer, _designed strictly to attack others_, and
>| turn it on myself, does it work?
>
>Transfer:
> "A character with this Adjustment Power can temporarilly take points from
> an opponent's Characteristic or Power and add those points to one of his
> own Characteristics or Powers."
>
>Personal Immunity:
> "This Advantage prevents the character from being affected by his own
> power."
>
>1. You cannot turn your Transfer on yourself. Transfer takes points from
> your opponent (someone else) and gives them to you temporarilly. It
> does not take points from yourself and give them to yourself.

Throughout the HSR, "opponent" is used interchangably with "target". I'm
not the only one who feels this was not meant to mean that your "opponent"
could not be yourself, but the term is not in the HSR glossary. Could Hero
Games please define "opponent" for us?

============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:39:46 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: dialects

In a message dated 6/16/99 7:57:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sarudy@hotmail.com writes:

> >cheerleading, as a hobby, is largely regarded as a stupid thing

but we all agree that cheerleaders are a good and wonderful thing... right?

andy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:40:07 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage

> >The only reference in the book that I can find about targeting hexes and
no
> >range attacks says you have to be in the target hex. True this is in
> >section regarding the Explosion Advantage but I can't see why it would be
> >different for other types of "Area Effect" Advantages. Especially since
it
> >also states that the Attack Roll for Explosions is treated identically to
> >other Area Effects on page 150, BBB.
>
> Bluntly, I don't care.

<Unimportant stuff clipped>

Me neither. The rule book no longer matters if you can dismiss a fairly
clearly written part as an "aberration." Just have fun and peace be with
you, that is what it is all about after all.

Alan
HeroRPG-owner@onelist.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:19:08 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
To: Champions <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage

> A couple of points:
>
> While at base cost Teleporation is a "self-only" power, the Extra Mass
> option quite specifically makes it not a self-only power. Treating it as
a
> self-only power at that point is contradictory.

No. I can't explain it any better than I have so just, no.

> The rule in Champions is that if a power has a "built-in" method of
> expanding its capabilities, advantages which have similar effects on other
> powers cannot be used. You always use the power's built-in method of
> extension. For instance, you cannot use Area of Effect to increase the
> area of Darkness or Change Environment.

Haven't ever seen that rule. Even if it is a real rule it doesn't apply to
Teleportation. The extra mass I can purchase for Teleportation is extra
mass teleporters can take with them. The extra mass of the UAO Advantage is
the extra mass that an inanimate target can have. Two similar but entirely
different things. If it isn't too much trouble could you tell me where in
the rule book the rule from above is? I haven't been able to find it and it
is going to bug me until I do.

> Teleportation has a built-in method of increasing the number of people or
> the mass of objects being teleported. Usable By Others and Usable Against
> Others have add-on advantages that do exactly the same thing.

Well sure they do the exact same thing if you use them differently than they
are written. I personally have no problem with you brushing off entire
paragraphs of the rule book as being "wrong." There are paragraphs we have
rewritten for my game to make us happy and I am always interested in things
others have done to tweak the game for themselves because I might like it
and want to apply it to my game as well, like the newsgroup posting I read
where a group subtracts BODY from defenses before applying STUN. I haven't
decided whether or not I like it but it does have possibilities and I had
never thought of it before. The problem is that once you do that and
include these dismissals of what the original rules in the discussion of
what the rules are we can't help but to disagree because we are referring to
different games with different rules.

>Given the
> second point, these add-on advantages cannot be used with Teleportation.
I
> would say that using these add-on advantages with Teleportation is the
> house rule, not the other way around, especially when you use
> Teleportation's Extra Mass for people but UAO's extra mass for objects.

If in the last sentence you mean me specifically you are in error. I use
Teleportation's Extra Mass for people and objects going with a teleporter
and UAO's extra mass for objects being teleported by a person with
Teleportation because that is what is written in the book. I didn't dismiss
part of the rules and then try to force sense out of what was left. I am
sorry you don't see the distinction and sorry that I can't explain it any
better.

BTW, hypothetically speaking, if there were such a thing as a nonattack
powers would there have to be attack powers?

Alan
HeroRPG-owner@onelist.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:19:39 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage

> >The only reference in the book that I can find about targeting hexes and
no
> >range attacks says you have to be in the target hex. True this is in
> >section regarding the Explosion Advantage but I can't see why it would be
> >different for other types of "Area Effect" Advantages. Especially since
it
> >also states that the Attack Roll for Explosions is treated identically to
> >other Area Effects on page 150, BBB.
>
> Bluntly, I don't care.

<Unimportant stuff clipped>

Me neither. The rule book no longer matters if you can dismiss a fairly
clearly written part as an "aberration." Just have fun and peace be with
you, that is what it is all about after all.

Alan
HeroRPG-owner@onelist.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:01:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage

>> >The only reference in the book that I can find about targeting hexes and
>no
>> >range attacks says you have to be in the target hex. True this is in
>> >section regarding the Explosion Advantage but I can't see why it would be
>> >different for other types of "Area Effect" Advantages. Especially since
>it
>> >also states that the Attack Roll for Explosions is treated identically to
>> >other Area Effects on page 150, BBB.
>>
>> Bluntly, I don't care.
>
><Unimportant stuff clipped>
>
>Me neither. The rule book no longer matters if you can dismiss a fairly
>clearly written part as an "aberration." Just have fun and peace be with
>you, that is what it is all about after all.

It matters. But when it contradicts both the way the general use for the
limitation involved is done, clearly makes many uses of the Limitation when
applied to a set of common Advantages almost pointless and contrary to the
sources, and only is referenced in the middle of one particularly quirky
power Advantage description, I don't feel obliged to not judge it in context
of the whole system. If it was spelled out explicity in the general Area
Effect advantage write-up, or elsewhere in the book, I'd at least take it
somewhat seriously.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:28:02 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: dialects

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <AndMat3@aol.com>
To: <sarudy@hotmail.com&> <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: dialects

> In a message dated 6/16/99 7:57:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> sarudy@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > >cheerleading, as a hobby, is largely regarded as a stupid thing
>
> but we all agree that cheerleaders are a good and wonderful thing...
right?

I can't speak for everyone here but if you are taking a poll put me in the
"Yeah boy howdy" side. I consider cheerleading to be one of the better
spectator events around.

Alan
HeroRPG-owner@onelist.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:34:40 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: dialects

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Leah L Watts <llwatts@juno.com>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: dialects

> >How about the US regional dialects. For instance, a peice of
> >livingroom
> >furnature big enough to seat three. Do you call it a couch, sofa, or
> >davenport?
>
> I've heard and used all three, but then we moved around a *lot* when I
> was a kid (Dad was active-service Navy). I probably use "couch" the
> most.

I grew up with the term "settee", I am unsure of the spelling but pronounced
"seh-tea" with the accent on the last syllable, usually, but occasionally on
the first like "ceti."

Alan
Mobile, AL
HeroRPG-owner@onelist.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:39:00 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: dialects

- ----- Original Message -----
From: S A Rudy <sarudy@hotmail.com>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: dialects

> says Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com&>
> >I'd like to have Canadian colloquialisms counted as well.
> >
> >pop, not soda
>
> This actually varies geographically inside the US. It's "soda" in the
North
> Atlantic states, "pop" in much of the MidWest, etc. And, in some parts of
> the South, for some reason, "coke" refers to any soda/pop, regardless of
> flavor.

That would have to do with the extremely heavy presence of Coca-Cola in the
area. A lesser used version but still fairly common is "co-coler", as in
"Hand me one of them, there, co-colers."

Alan
Mobile, AL
HeroRPG-owner@onelist.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:47:10 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: dialects

- ----- Original Message -----
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: dialects

> At 04:45 PM 6/16/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >I'd like to have Canadian colloquialisms counted as well.
> >
> >a warm knit cap is a toque [pronounced too-k], not a ski hat
>
> Where I'm from (New England), a warm knit cap is called a wool hat. A ski
> mask may be worn like a wool cap, but it is long enough to pull down over
> your face and has holes for your eyes and mouth.

We call them "a good way to get arrested."

> That would be a snowmobile suit.

A what-mobile suit? Oh yeah, snow, that's the white stuff that comes out of
the sky once or twice every 8 or 10 years and disappears right after it hits
the ground isn't it. Amazing stuff.

Alan
Mobile, AL
HeroRPG-owner@onelist.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:42:26 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: dialects

> shitkickers are big work boots with steel toes and thinsulate lining

I have never heard that use of the word. We only use that term to refer to
someone who likes to drive pickup trucks, hang out at beer barns and get
into fights.

Alan
Mobile, AL
HeroRPG-owner@onelist.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 20:08:55 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats

At 09:42 PM 6/16/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> on Wed, 16 Jun 1999
>| So far the only reason I've seen you give for a character not being able
>| to use Transfer on himself is that attacking oneself is not a
>| psychologically normal action, yet you've agreed that a gun turned on
>| oneself would certainly affect oneself. What makes Transfer different from
>| RKA in this respect?
>
>Nothing whatsoever.

So given this, plus your recent "clarification" that a character cannot
affect himself with Transfer, I can only conclude....
Well, never mind. I just wish guns worked like that in the real world.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:06:19 -0500
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: RE: Darkness (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)

At 05:34 PM 6/16/99 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> Except villains. They should always be allowed to do the nasty things
>that heroes would never dream of doing. (This is balanced by the fact that
>heroes usually have a much better support network.)

I would say that they "can sometimes be allowed" rather than "should always
be allowed". The latter leans towards a killer-GM environment.

- --

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 01:00:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Byronic HERO

I was wondering if any one could direct me to any information on
the archetype of the "Byronic Hero," being the hero most typified in
Byron's stories.

I require this for a character write up (for which I will need to
dismantle the Byronic Hero for parts. :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 01:20:29 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Byronic HERO

At 01:00 AM 6/17/99 -0400, you wrote:
> I require this for a character write up (for which I will need to
>dismantle the Byronic Hero for parts. :)
>
My that sounds ghastly. Rather Frankensteinian. Of course, he was a
Shellyesque Hero.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:09:43 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage

> >> >The only reference in the book that I can find about targeting hexes
and
> >no
> >> >range attacks says you have to be in the target hex. True this is in
> >> >section regarding the Explosion Advantage but I can't see why it would
be
> >> >different for other types of "Area Effect" Advantages. Especially
since
> >it
> >> >also states that the Attack Roll for Explosions is treated identically
to
> >> >other Area Effects on page 150, BBB.
> >>
> >> Bluntly, I don't care.
> >
> ><Unimportant stuff clipped>
> >
> >Me neither. The rule book no longer matters if you can dismiss a fairly
> >clearly written part as an "aberration." Just have fun and peace be with
> >you, that is what it is all about after all.
>
> It matters. But when it contradicts both the way the general use for the
> limitation involved is done, clearly makes many uses of the Limitation
when
> applied to a set of common Advantages almost pointless and contrary to the
> sources, and only is referenced in the middle of one particularly quirky
> power Advantage description, I don't feel obliged to not judge it in
context
> of the whole system. If it was spelled out explicity in the general Area
> Effect advantage write-up, or elsewhere in the book, I'd at least take it
> somewhat seriously.

It is spelled out clearly in the Area Effect Advantage write-up that a
AE-Radius is going to be centered on the target hex and spread out from that
point in a circle. If I buy that Advantage on any power of 20 points or
more I am going to be in the area if I put it on a power that isn't ranged.
That is even assuming you were correct about being able to place it in an
adjacent hex. The cost of adding this advantage is +1 which is double the
original cost. You buy the same attack as a AE-Cone and you get to be out
of the area for the same +1 expenditure. Doesn't seem fair to me,
regardless of what you consider to be "general use." I have to admit I
don't really understand what you mean by "general use." Unless you are
implying that my interpretation of the rules goes against the most commonly
accepted interpretation. If that is the case, I feel it necessary to point
out that what people generally do and what is right is often two different
things. Generally here in Mobile, people rarely use turn signals. You
might say that the general use of the turn signal lever here is to hang an
air freshener on. I still try to use them properly because it is right,
don't always succeed, but I do try.

Alan
HeroRPG-owner@onelist.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:22:09 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: House Rules that become "real."

I once played in a AD&D game, in which the GM let any Cleric throw any spell
in the book on-the-fly. This meant that as a Magic-User I had to pick my
spells before beginning the adventure and could only use what I had picked,
a Cleric could wait until combat began and pick the most advantageous spell
at that moment from the entire Player's Handbook and even several spells
from other sources like the Tome of Mighty Magic, not the one by TSR the old
one from a local publisher hereabouts. It didn't really adversely affect
the game as much as it might seem. A few other unimportant adjustments and
we rebalanced the game.

The reason I bring this up is that I found myself in a discussion with one
of the players who had been in this game for years and found out that he
didn't even remember that it was a house rule anymore. The only reason it
came up is that we were both working on a tournament for a local convention
and he didn't understand why I typed up a form for the Cleric characters to
write their spells out on ahead of time. We argued for awhile until a
couple of people he trusted confirmed it to him for me.

Anybody out there ever run into a similar situation in your Champions games?
I have occasionally but I find out it usually is based on a rule from an
earlier game edition. We started with first edition and kept up-to-date and
played all of the editions since. I am usually the one to notice because I
stopped playing with this group during second edition and joined back up
after they had moved on to fourth and personally never played third.

Alan
HeroRPG-owner@onelist.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:04:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: House Rules that become "real."

>Anybody out there ever run into a similar situation in your Champions games?
>I have occasionally but I find out it usually is based on a rule from an
>earlier game edition. We started with first edition and kept up-to-date and
>played all of the editions since. I am usually the one to notice because I
>stopped playing with this group during second edition and joined back up
>after they had moved on to fourth and personally never played third.

I frequently run into people who think you still take a -1 OCV if you half
move. As for the other, it's hard to say; my situation has been compounded
by the fact occasionally the Hero guys have liked one of my house rules
enough they've made it a real rule, such is apparently going to be the case
with my killing attack stun multiple (though the latter will be an optional)
if what I heard was correct. But we've hit odd cases of that in other
games, certainly.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:12:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage

>> It matters. But when it contradicts both the way the general use for the
>> limitation involved is done, clearly makes many uses of the Limitation
>when
>> applied to a set of common Advantages almost pointless and contrary to the
>> sources, and only is referenced in the middle of one particularly quirky
>> power Advantage description, I don't feel obliged to not judge it in
>context
>> of the whole system. If it was spelled out explicity in the general Area
>> Effect advantage write-up, or elsewhere in the book, I'd at least take it
>> somewhat seriously.
>
>It is spelled out clearly in the Area Effect Advantage write-up that a
>AE-Radius is going to be centered on the target hex and spread out from that
>point in a circle. If I buy that Advantage on any power of 20 points or
>more I am going to be in the area if I put it on a power that isn't ranged.

Not, as I noted, with Cones, One-Hex Area, and Line. I've admitted my
dealing with Explosion and Radius is non-canonical; now I'm talking about
the others.

>That is even assuming you were correct about being able to place it in an
>adjacent hex. The cost of adding this advantage is +1 which is double the
>original cost. You buy the same attack as a AE-Cone and you get to be out
>of the area for the same +1 expenditure. Doesn't seem fair to me,

Seems part of the whole point in the Cone to me. Cone is much harder to
place so you get the full benefit of the area than Radius generally.

>regardless of what you consider to be "general use." I have to admit I
>don't really understand what you mean by "general use." Unless you are

I'm talking about other No Range powers, which are clearly useable in
adjacent hexes because of the way combat is normally run; you don't hit
people in your hex, you hit people in the one next to you.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:47:24 -0500
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@inetnebr.com>
Subject: Re: subscription change

Looks like I no longer have access to either of my old addresses

lancelot@binary.net
lancelot@radiks.net

John Desmarais wrote:

> --- Lance Dyas <lancelot@inetnebr.com> wrote:
> > exactly how do i get my subscription changed to...
> > lancelot@inetnebr.com
>
> >From the old email address send an email to champ-l-request@sysabend.org with
> UNSUBSCRIBE as the body of the message.
>
> Then, from the new address, send an email ot champ-l-request@sysabend.org with
> SUBSCRIBE as the body of the message.
>
> The listserver will automatically process the requests.
>
> If you no longer have access to the old email account just subscribe the new
> one and let me know what the old was is and I can unsubscribe it manually.
>
> -=>John Desmarais
> http://www.sysabend.org/champions
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 05:56:55 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: Darkness (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)

At 12:06 AM 6/17/1999 -0500, Bryant Berggren wrote:
>At 05:34 PM 6/16/99 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> Except villains. They should always be allowed to do the nasty things
>>that heroes would never dream of doing. (This is balanced by the fact that
>>heroes usually have a much better support network.)
>
>I would say that they "can sometimes be allowed" rather than "should always
>be allowed". The latter leans towards a killer-GM environment.

Quite so; I stand corrected. How about "should generally be allowed"?
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 05:58:10 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: dialects

At 11:48 PM 6/16/1999 EDT, Leah L Watts wrote:
>>How about the US regional dialects. For instance, a peice of
>>livingroom
>>furnature big enough to seat three. Do you call it a couch, sofa, or
>>davenport?
>
>I've heard and used all three, but then we moved around a *lot* when I
>was a kid (Dad was active-service Navy). I probably use "couch" the
>most.

I generally use "couch", but growing up it was a "davino". (Then again,
my mom is from Missouri.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 06:12:45 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage

At 11:10 PM 6/16/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
>A couple of points:
>
>While at base cost Teleporation is a "self-only" power, the Extra Mass
>option quite specifically makes it not a self-only power. Treating it as a
>self-only power at that point is contradictory.
>
>The rule in Champions is that if a power has a "built-in" method of
>expanding its capabilities, advantages which have similar effects on other
>powers cannot be used. You always use the power's built-in method of
>extension. For instance, you cannot use Area of Effect to increase the
>area of Darkness or Change Environment.
>
>Teleportation has a built-in method of increasing the number of people or
>the mass of objects being teleported. Usable By Others and Usable Against
>Others have add-on advantages that do exactly the same thing. Given the
>second point, these add-on advantages cannot be used with Teleportation. I
>would say that using these add-on advantages with Teleportation is the
>house rule, not the other way around, especially when you use
>Teleportation's Extra Mass for people but UAO's extra mass for objects.

I agree with the general principle here. I don't think that the extra
mass option from UAO/UBO *cannot* be used with Teleportation, but I do
think that it *should not* be, because given the above points it (among
other things) just plain becomes confusing to both GM and player.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:42:47 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: Darkness (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)

>Not to mention that a 200" UAO Teleport (which can, indeed, be used whether
>the target likes it or not...that's the whole point of the distinction
>between UAO and UBO) would cost, hmmm, about 800 character points.

You don't need that many points:

Teleport 10", UAO, AOE 1 hex, Continuous (70 Active): The teleport
transports you one hex above the affected hex.

Turn this on someone, let them fall until they are at terminal velocity,
turn it off.

I named the character I gave this to Splat. :)

Geoff Speare (no, never actually used the character...)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:42:22 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: RE: Space Battleship

At 10:53 AM 6/16/99 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 06:08 PM 6/16/1999 +0200, Henrik Giese wrote:
>>>>>
>>
>>You forgot -peta- (10^15).
>>
>>(Sorry, couldn't help myself)
>>
><<<<
>
> I did forget about peta.
> (He's a nice-a guy, though.) ;-]
>

Do you know his sister tera? You really ought to meter.

Bill Yottasvitavsky

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:58:27 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: The Metric System [was...Space Battleship]

Good Morning,

I thought of another one. A case of beer with 24 bottles is called a
'two-four'.

] I was responding to Brian, who I thought was a fellow
] Canadian. _We_ use
] millimetres.
I'm as Canadian as Stompin' Tom Connors, maple syrup and the electron
microscope. Sure, we use them little millimetres all the time. Millilitres
not so much.

] > Country-dependent spelling, like color vs colour. Meter is
] correct in
] > the US.
Sadly, Canadian spellings are being pushed out in favour of American
spellings in a lot of written material because the spell checkers use
American spellings and don't offer a Canadian dictionary.

] I'm surprised by how many Americans had to point that out. US
] is correct in
] the US, but U.S.A is correct everywhere else, especially in
] countries named
] United States of Something Else.
Yea, but everybody knows who the Americans are. I may live on one of two
American continents but I'm no American.

Oh yea, someone asked if there's anything wrong with spiting the French. My
answer is no. Every time a French prime minister comes on an official visit
to Canada, they stop in Quebec City, give a public address and set
english/french relations in Canada back 15 years. Given how France left its
colonists to twist in the wind and get worked over by the English while
Canada was being colonized, I just can't see how they could come to my
country and start shouting about 'Une Quebec Libre!!'.

There's an old joke about Canada. Given who colonized the area and who are
neighbour is, Canada could have had the economy of the Americans, The
culture of the English and the cuisine of the French. Instead we got the
culture of the Americans, the cuisine of the English and the economy of the
French. Alas.

BRI

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:10:10 PDT
From: S A Rudy <sarudy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: dialects

Andy says:

>In a message dated 6/16/99 7:57:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>sarudy@hotmail.com writes:
>
>>>cheerleading, as a hobby, is largely regarded as a stupid thing
>
>but we all agree that cheerleaders are a good and wonderful thing... right?

I was in my high school's marching band. We held the cheerleaders largely
in contempt. (Of course, this may have had something to do with the fact
that, due to the socioeconomic dynamic of the school, we were a
significantly higher quality band than they were a cheerleading squad.)

- --S A Rudy http://www.eclipse.net/~srudy
+----------------------------------------------------------+
|"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what |
| feminism is; I only know that people call me a feminist |
| whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from |
| a doormat or a prostitute." -- Rebecca West, 1913 |
+----------------------------------------------------------+

_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:10:26 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Area Effect (Was RE: Teleport & the Area Effect Advantage)

At 09:27 AM 6/16/99 -0700, Grant Enfield wrote:
[snip]
>
>Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
>> That causes a problem with Change Environment, though. A 60
>> active point
>> CE using this system, doubling the radius for every +1/4, has over a
>> billion mile radius (2^40 inches) - roughly the distance from
>> the Earth to
>> Saturn. It's even worse with the system others have proposed, where CE
>> starts with an area affect as usual, but doubles with each
>> +1/4 advantage;
>> that more than covers the Solar System.
>>
>> Consistent cost structures are nice, but in this case I think
>> there's a
>> good reason for different systems. The ability to alter the
>> environment on
>> multiple planets seems a little out of proportion to other 60
>> point powers;
>> can you imagine power gamers sticking one of these CE's in
>> every multipower?
>
>
>Of course you have to change the base costs for those powers (Images and
>Darkness).
>
>Change Environment has more problems than its goofy area effect rules. I'm
>curious about Long's changes in the new edition, but it still strikes me as
>a power that costs lots to do nothing. (I don't think I've ever bought it
>for a PC.)
>
>

I'm rather fond of it, but I do think it needs some expansion to cover
combat effects. In the mean time, you may want to take a look at my house
rule version of CE on Geoff Speare's house rule site:
http://www.shalott.com/hero/houserule/ (If you haven't seen it before, that
is; it was developed on this list, and I've reposted it several times.)

I went with the +5 points to double the area construction, for the reason I
cited above. If I were to revise this power again, I'd consider James
Jandebur's suggestion that the base 5 point power be single target, only
affecting a hex for 10 points. I'd have to think through the ramifications
of single target CE's, though; there's a lot of redundance there with
Drain, Suppress, Flash, and other Powers. I don't feel the need to tinker
with this any further, though, as the 5th edition isn't that far away now.

Bill Svitavsky

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:19:54 PDT
From: S A Rudy <sarudy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Byronic HERO

Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu> says:
>I was wondering if any one could direct me to any information on
>the archetype of the "Byronic Hero," being the hero most typified
>in Byron's stories.
>I require this for a character write up (for which I will need to
>dismantle the Byronic Hero for parts. :)

Are you sure you're not just trying to get us to do your English Lit
homework for you? :)

- -S

_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:35:28 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Byronic HERO

At 01:00 AM 6/17/99 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> I was wondering if any one could direct me to any information on
>the archetype of the "Byronic Hero," being the hero most typified in
>Byron's stories.
>
> I require this for a character write up (for which I will need to
>dismantle the Byronic Hero for parts. :)
>

The Oxford Companion to English Literature (5th ed.) quotes Thomas Macaulay
in his summation of the Byronic hero: "a man proud, moody, cynical, with
defiance on his brow, and misery in his heart, a scorner of his kind,
implacable in revenge, yet capable of deep and strong affection." (p. 154.)
Romantic (capital R) heroes in general also tend to dress in black and hang
around ruins.

Dismantling a Byronic hero for parts sounds like a very good idea to me. :-)

Bill Svitavsky

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:45:50 +0200
From: Henrik Giese <henrik.giese@lgp.se>
Subject: RE: House Rules that become "real."

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01BEB8D0.198617E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Even tho' we finally noticed that we're wrong, we still play that using =
an
attack doesn't end your phase. ie, attack on phase N (=BD phase) then =
again on
phanse N+1 (rest of phase), if you attack twice in a phase, you get a =
- -2
OCV.

/Henrik

- -----Original Message-----
From: J. Alan Easley [mailto:alaneasley@email.com]
Sent: den 17 juni 1999 07:22
To: HERO System List
Subject: House Rules that become "real."

I once played in a AD&D game, in which the GM let any Cleric throw any =
spell
in the book on-the-fly. This meant that as a Magic-User I had to pick =
my
spells before beginning the adventure and could only use what I had =
picked,
a Cleric could wait until combat began and pick the most advantageous =
spell
at that moment from the entire Player's Handbook and even several =
spells
from other sources like the Tome of Mighty Magic, not the one by TSR =
the old
one from a local publisher hereabouts. It didn't really adversely =
affect
the game as much as it might seem. A few other unimportant adjustments =
and
we rebalanced the game.

The reason I bring this up is that I found myself in a discussion with =
one
of the players who had been in this game for years and found out that =
he
didn't even remember that it was a house rule anymore. The only reason =
it
came up is that we were both working on a tournament for a local =
convention
and he didn't understand why I typed up a form for the Cleric =
characters to
write their spells out on ahead of time. We argued for awhile until a
couple of people he trusted confirmed it to him for me.

Anybody out there ever run into a similar situation in your Champions =
games?
I have occasionally but I find out it usually is based on a rule from =
an
earlier game edition. We started with first edition and kept =
up-to-date and
played all of the editions since. I am usually the one to notice =
because I
stopped playing with this group during second edition and joined back =
up
after they had moved on to fourth and personally never played third.

Alan
HeroRPG-owner@onelist.com

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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2448.0">
<TITLE>RE: House Rules that become "real."</TITLE>
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<BODY>

Even tho' we finally noticed that we're wrong, we =
still play that using an attack doesn't end your phase. ie, attack on =
phase N (=BD phase) then again on phanse N+1 (rest of phase), if you =
attack twice in a phase, you get a -2 OCV.

/Henrik


-----Original Message-----
 From: J. Alan Easley [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:alaneasley@email.com">mailto:alaneasley@email.com</A>]</F=
ONT>
 Sent: den 17 juni 1999 07:22
 To: HERO System List
 Subject: House Rules that become =
"real."

 

I once played in a AD&D game, in which the GM let =
any Cleric throw any spell
 in the book on-the-fly.  This meant that as a =
Magic-User I had to pick my
 spells before beginning the adventure and could only =
use what I had picked,
 a Cleric could wait until combat began and pick the =
most advantageous spell
 at that moment from the entire Player's Handbook and =
even several spells
 from other sources like the Tome of Mighty Magic, =
not the one by TSR the old
 one from a local publisher hereabouts.  It =
didn't really adversely affect
 the game as much as it might seem.  A few other =
unimportant adjustments and
 we rebalanced the game.


The reason I bring this up is that I found myself in =
a discussion with one
 of the players who had been in this game for years =
and found out that he
 didn't even remember that it was a house rule =
anymore.  The only reason it
 came up is that we were both working on a tournament =
for a local convention
 and he didn't understand why I typed up a form for =
the Cleric characters to
 write their spells out on ahead of time.  We =
argued for awhile until a
 couple of people he trusted confirmed it to him for =
me.


Anybody out there ever run into a similar situation =
in your Champions games?
 I have occasionally but I find out it usually is =
based on a rule from an
 earlier game edition.  We started with first =
edition and kept up-to-date and
 played all of the editions since.  I am usually =
the one to notice because I
 stopped playing with this group during second =
edition and joined back up
 after they had moved on to fourth and personally =
never played third.


Alan
 HeroRPG-owner@onelist.com


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