Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 41
Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 9:58 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #41
champ-l-digest Monday, November 16 1998 Volume 01 : Number 041
In this issue:
About Lightning Reflexes and Archery Manuevers
Re: Feedback Sought
Re: Breakable versus Unbreakable.
Re: About Lightning Reflexes and Archery Manuevers
Re: Breakable versus Unbreakable.
Re: About Lightning Reflexes and Archery Manuevers
Telekinetic Question
Re: CHAR: Bambolea (Part One)
Re: CHAR: Bambolea (part 2)
Re: Mental Defense vs. Mental Damage Reduction
Re: CHAR: Bambolea (part 2)
Re: Breakable versus Unbreakable.
Re: Telekinetic Question
Re: About Lightning Reflexes and Archery Manuevers
Re: FH Anyone?
Re: CHAR: Bambolea (part 2)
Re: CHAR: Bambolea (Part One)
Re: Mental Defense vs. Mental Damage Reduction
Re: Breakable versus Unbreakable.
Re: Mental Defense vs. Mental Damage Reduction
RE: FH Anyone?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 03:00:04 PST
From: "Roland Volz" <roland_volz@hotmail.com>
Subject: About Lightning Reflexes and Archery Manuevers
/Lurk Mode=OFF
Greetings to the list! I have been a loyal Hero System fan for nigh on
ten years now, and I have to say, it's never looked better. In fact, I
got the Ultimate Martial Artist at GenCon, and I was very, very
impressed. It definitely filled in the few blanks left by Ninja Hero.
However, I was left with a question: How would I break down the
Optional Ranged Combat Manuevers in Fantasy Hero into UMA Maneuver
elements? I am thinking specifically about Prepared Arrow Fire and
Rapid Fire, but I am kind of curious if it has been discussed on the
list before I subscribed. (I subscribed to the digest shortly before
the "HeroBomber". I thought he was letting me see all the
correspondance I missed!)
The other question I have is about Lightning Reflexes. I do not own a
copy of An Eye for an Eye, and my local gaming store doesn't carry an
extra copy. Can someone let me know what the game effects and cost are?
I would be much obliged.
Thanks in advance,
Roland
______________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:11:15 EST
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Subject: Re: Feedback Sought
>We are preparing Denizens of San Angelo (working title), a sourcebook
>providing "normal" NPCs for the San Angelo: City of Heroes setting, and
a
>format question has arisen. We are seeking your feedback before making a
final
>decision.
Another vote for option 1 (mix of summaries and full writeups).
I'm not sure how you're organizing the book, but if you've got it broken
down into sections based on type of character I'd like to see at least
one detailed writeup per section. For example, say there's a section for
academic figures -- give most of them summaries, but have one person with
either a full character sheet or summary stats and a longer character
description.
Leah
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------------------------------
Date: 15 Nov 1998 10:55:07 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Breakable versus Unbreakable.
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"bf" == bobby farris <redbf@ldd.net> writes:
bf> Under Focus in the BBB it says that there are no points given, or
bf> taken away, for an item being Breakable or Unbreakable because they both
bf> have advantages and disadvantages. What is the disadvantage of an item
bf> being unbreakable?
It is probably somewhat more difficult to replace should it be lost or
stolen, indestructible materials being somewhat more difficult to obtain,
and all.
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:11:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Kim Foster <nexus@uky.campus.mci.net>
Subject: Re: About Lightning Reflexes and Archery Manuevers
>The other question I have is about Lightning Reflexes. I do not own a
>copy of An Eye for an Eye, and my local gaming store doesn't carry an
>extra copy. Can someone let me know what the game effects and cost are?
>I would be much obliged.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Roland
>
The Lighting Reflexes Talent affects when a character acts during his/her
Phase. Every point of Lightning Reflexes increases a characters effective by
1 -only- for purpose of order of action. CV and skills are not affected. If
the character has Normal Characterstic Maxima the cost of Lightning Reflexes
is effected. \\
Cost: 3 Points for 2 points of Lightning Reflexes for all Actions
1 Point for 1 point of Lightning Reflexes for a single action/manuver
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
I know violence doesn't solve all problems...
But it sure feels good!
Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:27:02 EST
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Subject: Re: Breakable versus Unbreakable.
>Actually, the BBB is very explicit on this point: An unbreakable focus
>can *only* be damaged or destroyed by one specified means, but it is
>*impossible* to make a new one if it is destroyed or taken. A breakable
>focus can be repaired if broken, or replaced if taken.
Actually, Champs Deluxe says "The GM should be careful with an
Unbreakable Focus; if he destroys it, the character should have some way
(a quest, perhaps?) to get it remade." It wouldn't be _impossible_, but
it would be much harder.
If I'm reading the section correctly, an unbreakable focus doesn't get
any defenses against the one attack it's vulnerable to, while breakable
foci get a DEF rating. If an unbreakable focus can be destroyed by, say,
flame, then someone could trash it with a lit match. I'd call that a
disadvantage.
Leah
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:27:01 EST
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Subject: Re: About Lightning Reflexes and Archery Manuevers
>The other question I have is about Lightning Reflexes. I do not own a
>copy of An Eye for an Eye, and my local gaming store doesn't carry an
>extra copy. Can someone let me know what the game effects and cost
>are?
>I would be much obliged.
Lightning Reflexes lets one act before their actual DEX says they would.
Basically, it's like buying extra DEX that only affects when you move in
a phase -- it has no effect on your CV, skill/characteristic rolls, SPD,
or anything else.
+1 Lightning Reflexes with one action or attack is one point, +2
Lightning Reflexes with any action/attack is three points. If the game
uses normal characteristic maxima, then Lightning Reflexes that would
take you over the maximum cost double. (Example: character A has an 18
DEX. He could buy +2 L.R. for 3 points, and move as if he was DEX 20.
If he wanted another +2, it would cost him 6 more points, since his
effective DEX would then be 22 -- over the limit.)
There's a stop sign on Lightning Reflexes, so be careful with it.
Leah
___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:57:29 -0600 (CST)
From: Brats Incorporated <brat-inc@avalon.net>
Subject: Telekinetic Question
I ran into this recently in my campaign. What we did was have the
person using the TK and the other guy role off using TK -Vs- STR. The
person who rolled the most body won. In the case of a tie, the person
initiating the attack would win.
>I've ran into this several times, so I thought I throw it out to the list:
>
>A telekinetic (10 str, no fine manipulation) lifts a 90 strength Brick into
>the air. I've had GMs say that the brick now has no way to break out as
>there is nothing to "push" against. Others that say it works like any other
>grab. What do you all think?
>
>Personally, I'd say game balance means it work like any other grab.
>I know violence doesn't solve all problems...
> But it sure feels good!
> Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior
Visit us at http://www.avalon.net/~brat-inc/ ....
"In the words of Socrates... I drank what?" ... Real Genius
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:47:08 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Bambolea (Part One)
At 01:30 PM 11/14/98 -0800, Ell Egyptoid wrote:
> ...She also makes only about one video per album she
>releases. Her albums sell because they're good, not because they're
>all over MTV. (When she gets tv-play, it's from VH1, MTV won't touch
>her.)
If she's also a gospel performer, wouldn't she get some airplay on ZTV
as well, and perhaps make appearances on selected programs on CBN, Trinity,
and similar stations? In fact, you made a brief mention of this aspect of
her life early in her description, and never came back to it.
Also, one video per album seems awfully, awfully thin; it'd be hard to
get a record contract with even so few as two, unless one is established as
a Music Legend (such as Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder, or Elton John).
Other than that, the description is excellent.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:54:31 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Bambolea (part 2)
At 01:40 PM 11/14/98 -0800, Ell Egyptoid wrote:
>48 COM 33
Even as you describe it, this seems *awfully* high. I mean, if we
assume that a well-trained supermodel can (but doesn't necessarily) reach a
30 (as concluded in a discussion on this list some months ago), Bambi would
be well into the range of truly angelic beauty. COM 30, or maybe a little
higher, would seem about right for her with her training and such.
I think it might do well to waver her other Primary Characteristics away
from "exactly 20" (say, DEX 21, CON 18, PRE 18, etc.), but that's just a
matter of taste.
>PRAYER POWERS:
>21 5D6 Luck (blessing of God) Variable Limitation
I think one needs to define a list of Limitations for Variable Limitation.
>MARTIAL ARTS - La Condora Style:
Is this your own invention, or just one I haven't heard of? (No problem
with it either way; just curious.)
Other than these items, and that it all looks very nice and thorough, I
have no particular comments or quibbles. :-]
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 08:21:34 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Mental Defense vs. Mental Damage Reduction
At 10:06 PM 11/14/98 -0500, Michael Sprague wrote:
>So ... what Mental Powers do you think Mental Damage Reduction apply
>against? It's late. If my math was bad, please correct it. :-)
Mental Damage Reduction would work against anything that Mental Defense
would work against: Ego Attack, Mental Illusions, Mind Control, Mind Scan,
Telepathy, and anything BOECV defined as working against Mental Defense.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 98 19:27:15
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Bambolea (part 2)
On Sat, 14 Nov 1998 13:40:21 -0800 (PST), Ell Egyptoid wrote:
>PRAYER POWERS:
>21 5D6 Luck (blessing of God) Variable Limitation
>
>53 MP (Magic) (105), "Abjuration of God", Only In Hero ID,
> only for good purposes, only with a clear conscience,
> 1/2 END, Variable Limitation, 0 END
>3u 3D6 Drain (Magic), "anti-magic spell", fade rate: 3 months
> (season), vs SFX (one power)
>3u 7D6 Aid (Magic), "Healing on any stat below 20", uses optional
> healing rules, only to starting value, vs SFX (all powers)
>3u 30/30 Force Field, AE 1-hex, selective target (divine protection)
>3u 39 Mental Defense (sovereignty of mind)
>3u 39 Power Defense (sovereignty of body)
>
>ALTA-AURA POWERS:
>13 Telepathy 8D6 (Mutant Powers), only if target knows more than
> 100 words of Spanish or is a mentalist, Extra Time: 5 phases
>3end
>26 Clairsentience (Mutant Powers), Hearing Group, see past,
> x250 Increased Range, Extra Time: 1 turn, only locations with
> three or more Spanish speakers or mentalists present 5end
Wouldn't these be better in Elemental Controls?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 08:02:40 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Breakable versus Unbreakable.
At 10:01 AM 11/14/98 -0600, bobby farris wrote:
> I have a player that is buying a suit of armor as OIF. He has
>asked me a question:
>
> Under Focus in the BBB it says that there are no points given, or
>taken away, for an item being Breakable or Unbreakable because they both
>have advantages and disadvantages. What is the disadvantage of an item
>being unbreakable?
>
> The only reply I have been able to think of is that an unbreakable
>item is harder to repair and fix. It would almost have to be replaced in
>entirely first. Can anyone think of anythig else or give me something to
>tell this player?
The usual reason given is that it can't be damaged or destroyed in the
event your enemies get ahold of it.
I do like something akin to the idea you give, though: treat an
Unbreakable Focus as Independent in some ways. If someone does manage to
stal or destroy it, the character has to go through a difficult process to
replace or rebuild it. The specifics may have to be determined by the GM,
and depend on the specifics of the item.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 08:22:51 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Telekinetic Question
At 09:40 AM 11/14/98 -0800, Kim Foster wrote:
>I've ran into this several times, so I thought I throw it out to the list:
>
>A telekinetic (10 str, no fine manipulation) lifts a 90 strength Brick into
>the air. I've had GMs say that the brick now has no way to break out as
>there is nothing to "push" against. Others that say it works like any other
>grab. What do you all think?
>
>Personally, I'd say game balance means it work like any other grab.
And, IMO, you say so correctly. At any rate, I'd agree with you, unless
someone points out something in the HSR that says otherwise.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:56:20 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: About Lightning Reflexes and Archery Manuevers
At 03:00 AM 11/15/98 PST, Roland Volz wrote:
>The other question I have is about Lightning Reflexes. I do not own a
>copy of An Eye for an Eye, and my local gaming store doesn't carry an
>extra copy. Can someone let me know what the game effects and cost are?
>I would be much obliged.
I can help with this one, at least.
In a nutshell, Lightning Reflexes has the effect of increasing one's DEX
for purposes of combat order *only*. It costs 3 points per +2 Lightning
Reflexes, or 1 point per +1 only for purposes of a single type of action
(such as Running).
Thus, a character with 15 DEX and +4 Lightning Reflexes would act on DEX
19. A mentalist with 15 DEX and 23 EGO, who would otherwise have to delay
his EGO-based Phase until his DEX (15) if he wanted to do a half move and
then use a Mental Power, could get +8 Lightning Reflexes only for his
Running for 8 points, and do his movement on his EGO-based Phase (23). He
could even get an extra +2 Lightning Reflexes with his Running (for another
+2 points), a Run on 25 (though he'd still have to wait for 23 to use his
Mental Powers).
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 08:24:25 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: FH Anyone?
At 10:35 AM 11/14/98 -0800, Jay P Hailey wrote:
>> - Someone had a huge stash of treasure, and wanted to keep it
>>somewhere that it would be safe from thieves. This type/section of
dungeon is
>>usually filled with deadly but circumventable traps, and occasionally
>>undead or synthetic monsters (or other types on a Triggered Summon).
>>The owner is usually dead, but you never know what might pop up.
>
>This would fit into the usual generic dungeon, nicely
In a way, it *is* the usual "generic" dungeon, but with a purpose and a
plot hook, and a little logic behind monster appearance.
>Ooo. The Dungeon Under the City sounds neato! Part of your campaign?
>Please tell me more, oh wise one.
It was just an idea I had. I just figured that there should be some
rationale for an underground complex beneath a fantasy city, since I'd seen
it a few times in the past with no rhyme or reason, as well as some good
reasons that were restrictive about what could be found; and then I
figured, why not more than one? So I wrote out a series of possibilities,
made a rationale for them to all be together, and the final result is more
or less what I described before.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:43:38 -0700
From: Curtis A Gibson <mhoram@relia.net>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Bambolea (part 2)
Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> >PRAYER POWERS:
> >21 5D6 Luck (blessing of God) Variable Limitation
>
> I think one needs to define a list of Limitations for Variable Limitation.
That one was in the desc I thing.. the cross or in a pinch
incantations..?
I was reading this character to my wife and she said "Oh, a female
Latina Buckaroo Banzaii with super powers." Great character. I plan to
do some campaign specific modifications to her and use her as a foil for
a PC.
- -Mhoram
- --
What is called glory, I think, is mostly the relief you feel after
you've fought and lived through battle without getting maimed.
- -Harry Turtledove Krispos Rising
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:45:02 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Re: CHAR: Bambolea (Part One)
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Actually, look at Pearl Jam which sold several album without making one
video--the recent one for "Do the Evolution" is their first video in
YEARS.....
"'Money doesn't talk--it screams."
--A.J. Benza, HOLLYWOOD MYSTERIES AND SCANDALS
____________________________________
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_______________________________
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Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:47:08 -0800
To: champ-l@sysabend.org
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Bambolea (Part One)
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At 01:30 PM 11/14/98 -0800, Ell Egyptoid wrote:
> ...She also makes only about one video per album she
>releases. Her albums sell because they're good, not because they're
>all over MTV. (When she gets tv-play, it's from VH1, MTV won't touch
>her.)
If she's also a gospel performer, wouldn't she get some airplay on ZTV
as well, and perhaps make appearances on selected programs on CBN, Trinity,
and similar stations? In fact, you made a brief mention of this aspect of
her life early in her description, and never came back to it.
Also, one video per album seems awfully, awfully thin; it'd be hard to
get a record contract with even so few as two, unless one is established as
a Music Legend (such as Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder, or Elton John).
Other than that, the description is excellent.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:22:39 -0500
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
Subject: Re: Mental Defense vs. Mental Damage Reduction
> This question has come up before and IIRC, it was agreed that it
>applies to all of the mental powers. You roll you dice for effect,
>apply the DR level and then see what level you get. You would be fairly
>sure that bying "normal" DR would be all that is required
Unfortunatly, I have been kind of hit or miss on this mail list for the past
five or six years. Not a lot of time to contribute or read.
>> And then, what about Normal Cost vs. Resistant Cost. As far as ED and PD
>> goes, if you can afford the points, there is a lot of attraction for
going
>> with the Resistant cost. But in general, it would be a waste of points.
>> Only Ego Blast could be a killing attack ... and that only by house
rule!!
>
> Actually mental illusions can do body damage. Whether it is treated as
> killing or normal would depend on the illusion.
Hmmm brings up another interesting question. First note that if Mental
Damage Reduction does work against Mental Illusions, it would be a bit more
difficult to even get to the actual point of doing damage. I would most
likely (depending on the illusion) insist that any damage done be treated as
ED or PD. That is, the Mental Damage Reduction doesn't kick in a second
time, and shave off 25% of the damage, after making it difficult to even do
damage.
On the other hand, if Mental Damage Reduction did not work against Mental
Illusions, then I would claim that the damage done was mental, whether it
"felt" like Physical or Energy. Thus, Mental Damage Reduction would work
against any damage done _by_ the Mental Illusions.
BTW: I'm going to play it that Mental Damage Reduction works against the
same things Mental defense does.
~ Mike (msprague@eznet.net)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 18:10:02 -0500
From: "dflacks" <dflacks@ican.net>
Subject: Re: Breakable versus Unbreakable.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Leah L Watts <llwatts@juno.com>
Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: Breakable versus Unbreakable.
>>Actually, the BBB is very explicit on this point: An unbreakable focus
>>can *only* be damaged or destroyed by one specified means, but it is
>>*impossible* to make a new one if it is destroyed or taken. A breakable
>>focus can be repaired if broken, or replaced if taken.
>
>Actually, Champs Deluxe says "The GM should be careful with an
>Unbreakable Focus; if he destroys it, the character should have some way
>(a quest, perhaps?) to get it remade." It wouldn't be _impossible_, but
>it would be much harder.
>
>If I'm reading the section correctly, an unbreakable focus doesn't get
>any defenses against the one attack it's vulnerable to, while breakable
>foci get a DEF rating. If an unbreakable focus can be destroyed by, say,
>flame, then someone could trash it with a lit match. I'd call that a
>disadvantage.
>
>Leah
Usually the attack it is vulnerable to is very specific. So specific as to
not qualify as a disadvantage. For example, Thor's hammer is vulnerable
only to the one forge it was made in. Another example, In Lord of the
Rings, the ring could only be destroyed by being thrown into one specific
vulcano.
So an unbreakable focus would not generally be vulnerable to flame per say,
perhaps only to the eternal flame burning in a specific temple. Just
finding out an unbreakable objects vulnerability is a quest in itself. Then
one has to get there and do the appropriate things.
High tech items can be similarly unbreakable. I remember from Marvel comics
they had a substance called admantium (sp?) that was unbreakable.
Eventually a specific high tech device was invented to destroy it. This
device was extreamly bulky, expensive, and hard to build. An unbreakable
focus made of admantium could not be broken by your average super villain.
Thus the hero has a chance to recover his focus while the villian builds his
unbreakable focus breaking machine.
Daniel Flacks dflacks@ican.net
Give me ambiguity or give me something else
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:30:07 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Mental Defense vs. Mental Damage Reduction
Michael Sprague wrote:
> Hmmm brings up another interesting question. First note that if Mental
> Damage Reduction does work against Mental Illusions, it would be a bit more
> difficult to even get to the actual point of doing damage. I would most
> likely (depending on the illusion) insist that any damage done be treated as
> ED or PD. That is, the Mental Damage Reduction doesn't kick in a second
> time, and shave off 25% of the damage, after making it difficult to even do
> damage.
We have one player in our group who has a character who does mental
illusions to do damage. As I am usally the ref when this character is
in play, I always apply the damage effects against a targets PD or ED.
After all, the target imangines that he has just been shot by his friend
in the corner with the Burp Gun. But he also knows that his armour will
take most of the sting off.
Ah, isn't the mind a wonderful place!
- --
Rick Holding
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:27:20 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
Subject: RE: FH Anyone?
> >So why would people build these? I came up witha fantasy world that
> >occasionally is bathed in terrible radiation. or something. The
> only
> >way for the Human population to survive intact is to dig in.
>
[Brian Wawrow] I'm currently playing in an 'evil' game where
all the PC's are evil. Our plan is to hire a traps guy and a bunch of
dwarves and build ourselves a dungeon. Then, we poison a couple of towns
and kidnap a couple of princesses. When word gets out of these
atrocities, we just wait for the heros to come get us, kill them with
our traps and the monsters we've trapped and collect their loot.
The dungeon is a big trap for heros, dig?
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #41
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Date: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 02:58 PM