Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 416
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 9:09 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #416
champ-l-digest Monday, June 21 1999 Volume 01 : Number 416
In this issue:
Re: Spirit rules
Re: TK tricks
Re: Partial Use of Powers
RE: Partial Use of Powers
Re: Partial Use of Powers
Re: Partial Use of Powers
Re: Partial Use of Powers
Re: Swapping stats
Re: Question about Concepts
Heroic-level TK [was RE: [Off Topic] [5th Ed] Fuzed?]
Re: Heroic-level TK [was RE: [Off Topic] [5th Ed] Fuzed?]
Re: Heroic-level TK [was RE: [Off Topic] [5th Ed] Fuzed?]
Re: TK tricks
Re: Heroic-level TK [was RE: [Off Topic] [5th Ed] Fuzed?]
Re: Heroic-level TK [was RE: [Off Topic] [5th Ed] Fuzed?]
Re: Heroic-level TK [was RE: [Off Topic] [5th Ed] Fuzed?]
Re: TK tricks
Teleportation Revisited
Re: Fantasy HERO & Questions about it...
Re: Partial Use of Powers
Re: Heroic-level TK
Re: Fantasy HERO & Questions about it...
Re: Question about Concepts
Re: Partial Use of Powers
Re: Question about Concepts
Re: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:57:30 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Spirit rules
At 11:04 AM 6/21/1999 -0500, Bobby Farris Jr. wrote:
>I am creating some androids/robots for a science fiction campaign and
>have some questions. In this campaign players can choose to play an
>android if they so choose. Right now I have two ways of making up the
>androids. The first way is to make them up as normal characters and just
>
>buy back characteristics such as CON, COM, and REC. (STUN will be gone
>with Takes No STUN).
>
>The second way is to use the Spirit rules as presented in Hero Almanac
>#1. My question is on the spirit rules. The problem is that the campaign
>
>is going to be a 75+75disadvantage campaign and I can't make up a Spirit
>
>Android under 290 pts. The main problem is coming from the fact that
>every android must buy a +2 Advantage: Usable in real world on any thing
>
>that is bought that can be used in the "real world."
> EXAMPLE: One of the "droids" has a small circular saw: I bought it
>as an HKA. Now, there is not way the android will ever use this power in
>
>the "spirit world." It is only for the "real world".
>
>My question is: If the spirit isn't going to be using the "power" in the
>
>"spirit" world and will ONLY use the power in the real world do they
>still have to use the +2 Advantage?
Well, the way I look at the rules as printed in HSA1, it looks like the
answer to this is yes. However, they can get a -1/2 Limitation for OIF:
Body, which should alleviate the cost for this somewhat.
The sample Android in HSA1 has STR, BODY, and COM bought ARW/OIF (also
No END Cost on the STR, with other characteristics bought straight. I
don't think I would've put ARW on the COM, but that's just me.
By similar token, though, the Armor and Running were bought unmodified.
On a slightly different slant, I do have a third option for building an
android: use the Vehicle rules, letting them be Size 0 Vehicles with INT
and EGO (and optionally PRE and/or COM) at base levels of 10, and the
Physical Limitation: No Cargo (Infrequent, Slight).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:02:00 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: TK tricks
At 09:56 AM 6/21/1999 -0700, James Jandebeur wrote:
>
>However, as per the recent Castling discussion, you may very well get away
>with Transdimensional for this very limited ability: what I just described
>is going to be far too expensive for the effect desired. That's up to the
>GM. If you're him, I'd say go for it.
XDM would only be appropriate for the Castling ability, because it could
target a particular point. (It's kinda like using XDM to travel from New
York to Tokyo; one could *only* go from New York to Tokyo and back with it.
If someone with such a Power were to go to, say, Brussels, it's the GM's
call whether the Power would take them to Tokyo, some other location, or
nowhere.)
On the other hand, unless I misread, Gil's ability works versus any
particular target, so XDM wouldn't be appropriate. Loads of Increased
Range, No Range Modifier, and Clairsentience are probably the way to go
here.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
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------------------------------
Date: 21 Jun 1999 14:16:56 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Partial Use of Powers
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* "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net> on Sun, 20 Jun 1999
| How would you GMs rule on a power that doesn't have to use all its options
| all the time?
A Power with an Advantage is a new power. You *must* use the Power with
the Advantage.
| For example, if a character had Invisibility with No Fringe, and wanted to
| turn the Fringe on, would you allow it? Would it take up the full 30 points
| or just 20 in a multipower multi slot?
No, and all 30.
The exceptions are rare, like the infrequent Armor Piercing on Strength.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ Earth, presumably from outer space.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:27:37 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Partial Use of Powers
G'Day,
I agree that advantages on powers should be considered active whenever the
power is active. However, I don't agree that a character must use all the
active points of a power.
I would allow a PC to run his invisibility with a fringe to save himself 2
(or 4) END. Why not? Also, the limitation 'beam attack' implies that if you
don't take it as a limitation, you can use a power at less than full
strength. Otherwise, it's an irrelevant limitation.
Of course, one could argue that it's not much of a limitation at all, but
that's neither here nor there. It's also not relevant that I make all the
invisible people in my game do it with images because invisible is just too
absolute.
Take care,
BRI
] -----Original Message-----
] From: Stainless Steel Rat [mailto:ratinox@peorth.gweep.net]
] Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 2:17 PM
] To: Champions
] Subject: Re: Partial Use of Powers
]
]
] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
] Hash: SHA1
]
] * "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net> on Sun, 20 Jun 1999
] | How would you GMs rule on a power that doesn't have to use
] all its options
] | all the time?
]
] A Power with an Advantage is a new power. You *must* use the
] Power with
] the Advantage.
]
] | For example, if a character had Invisibility with No
] Fringe, and wanted to
] | turn the Fringe on, would you allow it? Would it take up
] the full 30 points
] | or just 20 in a multipower multi slot?
]
] No, and all 30.
]
] The exceptions are rare, like the infrequent Armor Piercing
] on Strength.
] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
] Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
] Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
]
] iD8DBQE3boGYgl+vIlSVSNkRAijLAJ9HbOozaGfhJIB84q9QqVijgNRnUwCgrqpU
] 1EJvTrtKcgXO1oNOBjnCGlQ=
] =pNjX
] -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
]
] --
] Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun
] Ball include an
] Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ unknown glowing
] substance which fell to
] PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ Earth, presumably from
] outer space.
]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:39:56 -0500
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Partial Use of Powers
On 6/21/99 at 2:16 PM Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>| For example, if a character had Invisibility with No Fringe, and wanted=
to
>| turn the Fringe on, would you allow it? Would it take up the full 30=
points
>| or just 20 in a multipower multi slot?
>
>No, and all 30.
OK, how about this concept: a character has the ability to turn invisible.=
Normally, a fringe effect is discernable, but when he wants to, he can=
eliminate the fringe (by using more END, Concentrating, etc.). How would=
this be written up in game terms? How would that be usable in a=
Multipower?
Guy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:46:01 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: Partial Use of Powers
>OK, how about this concept: a character has the ability to turn invisible.
>Normally, a fringe effect is discernable, but when he wants to, he can
>eliminate the fringe (by using more END, Concentrating, etc.). How would
>this be written up in game terms? How would that be usable in a Multipower?
I think you could slime this under the current rules by buying Limitations
on the fringe only:
20 Invis
5 No Fringe, 4x END (or whatever Increased END is worth -1)
Purists might not allow this, however. Something else to hope for in 5th. :)
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:08:09 PDT
From: S A Rudy <sarudy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Partial Use of Powers
>On 6/21/99 at 2:16 PM Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>OK, how about this concept: a character has the ability to turn invisible.
>Normally, a fringe effect is discernable, but when he wants to, he can
>eliminate the fringe (by using more END, Concentrating, etc.). How would
>this be written up in game terms? How would that be usable in a Multipower?
You see, now *this* example is why I think that (SFX
permitting), it's all right to let people use part of a
power.
According to the rules, you can take advantages and
disadvatages on only part of a power. So, you'd take the
"Concentration" disad only on the Fringe.
In the case of the "sometimes it has a fringe, sometimes
it doesn't" power with no disads involved, in a multipower,
I'd still make the player use the full points in the
multipower slot, but I'd probably let them take the break
on the END cost.
Of course, YMMV.
- -S
S A Rudy http://www.eclipse.net/~srudy
+----------------------------------------------------------+
|"I myself have never been able to find out precisely what |
| feminism is; I only know that people call me a feminist |
| whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from |
| a doormat or a prostitute." -- Rebecca West, 1913 |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:24:23 -0700
From: Rodger Bright <rodger.bright@cbpr.com>
Subject: Re: Swapping stats
I actually do Side Effects very differently then the books.
In my Fantasy Hero game I have somethig called Channeling Potential (it's a
skill that represents how much "magic" you are able to handle, in game
terms it is represented as a number that relates to DC's and the active
points availble to a specific DC). If someone takes a 1/2 side effect it
has the active points of half their Channeling Potential, if they take
full, then it has the effect of their full Channeling Potential.
If a PC has a Channeling Potential of 4 then a 1/2 Side Effect will only
hit them with 10 active points, and a full would only 20. BUT, if someone
had a Channeling Potential of 20 then they are talking 50 active points or
100. it gives a break to starting characters, and it slams bad-ass strong
characters. it is very game balancing.. 30 active points is HUGE in a
game that starts with 150 point characters and Channeling Potentials of 6.
I *ALSO* do the roll for side effect differently. I do a GREATER THAN
roll. You can buy the side effect limitation with an 11+ for example.
Your power might only require a 13- to activate, but if you roll anything
higher then an 11 you get the side effect. It makes for very exciting
combat. I actually pilferd the idea from someones web page I liked it so
much.
- --Rodger
http://i.am/altandara
GAZZA wrote:
> Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
> > * Rodger Bright <rodger.bright@cbpr.com> on Wed, 16 Jun 1999
> > | I think a great power would be the ability to sacrifice some of one
> > | characteristic or power to boost another one.
> >
> > +40 Strength, Side Effect: 2D6 Drain INT (-1/2).
>
> Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. You mistyped that, right? Because surely
> you know that it would have to be 3d6 rather than 2d6; it's 30 Active
> Points OR 1/2 the Active Cost of the power, whichever is GREATER.
>
> (As an aside, I've always thought Drains as Side Effects borders on
> abusive. You could always take 3d6 Drain BODY - average loss 5 BODY,
> which will return in less than 30 seconds - rather than 6d6 Energy
> Blast, which will do an average of 6 BODY, which WON'T come back
> by itself, as well as an average of 21 STUN).
> --
> GAZZA
> "To know others is wisdom.
> To know one's self is enlightenment."
- --
Rodger Bright, Senior Network Engineer
Copithorne & Bellows
100 First Street 26th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94105
[415]-975-2251 Direct, [415]-284-5200 Main
[415]-243-9664 FAX, [888]-519-8546 Pager
rodger.bright@cbpr.com
rodger.bright.pager@cbpr.com (Alpha Paging)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:01:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Question about Concepts
>
> I am hoping that at least a few people on this list are familiar with
>the Wild Card series of books. If so:
>
> 1. How would one go about writing up Ti Malice and his "addictive"
>saliva and its effects on others?
>
> 2. How would one write up the Jumper's interesting variant on mind
>control?
>
Both of these strike me as Transforms. I'd have to go back and reread to
see how to do all the details of how all the bells and whistles on Ti's
power is, but the Jumper's power is an all-or-nothing mental transform
(Based on ECV and targets Ego instead of Body), with the Limitation that it
Transforms your own mind in the process. Given some of the people in the
book it worked on, it'd be a pretty big one too...at least 180 Active
Points, I'd think.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:20:00 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: Heroic-level TK [was RE: [Off Topic] [5th Ed] Fuzed?]
>My next
>character adaption will probably be Gil Hamilton, agent of ARM.
A character who I have long considered to point out a significant flaw
in HERO, when used to simulate telekinetic powers in heroic games. It
does not scale well to people who can move only very small masses. In
the case of Gil Hamilton, he can't manage more than 10 ounces on Earth.
A useful ability in the real world, but not readily purchasable in HERO.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:30:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis C Hwang <dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: Heroic-level TK [was RE: [Off Topic] [5th Ed] Fuzed?]
On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, David Nasset wrote:
> >My next
> >character adaption will probably be Gil Hamilton, agent of ARM.
>
> A character who I have long considered to point out a significant flaw
> in HERO, when used to simulate telekinetic powers in heroic games. It
> does not scale well to people who can move only very small masses. In
> the case of Gil Hamilton, he can't manage more than 10 ounces on Earth.
> A useful ability in the real world, but not readily purchasable in HERO.
As a tangent to this idea--
When the HSR talks about a "minimum cost" for a Power, does that refer to
a minimum base cost, or a minimum cost including Advantages and
Limitations? For instance, if you wanted to build your STR 1 (or 2)
Telekinesis, you could probably add enough Increased Range, No Range
Modifiers, Invisible, etc. to push the cost up past the minimum listed (15
points?)
Just curious.
- --Dennis
*************************************************************
* dchwang@itsa.ucsf.edu * xenopathologist at large! *
*************************************************************
* "Why would the government want to turn Scully into *
* a bimbo?" -- Frohike, THE X-FILES 5/2/99 *
*************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:45:32 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Heroic-level TK [was RE: [Off Topic] [5th Ed] Fuzed?]
At 01:30 PM 6/21/1999 -0700, Dennis C Hwang wrote:
>
>When the HSR talks about a "minimum cost" for a Power, does that refer to
>a minimum base cost, or a minimum cost including Advantages and
>Limitations? For instance, if you wanted to build your STR 1 (or 2)
>Telekinesis, you could probably add enough Increased Range, No Range
>Modifiers, Invisible, etc. to push the cost up past the minimum listed (15
>points?)
In Fourth Edition, it's the base cost.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:44:32 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: TK tricks
> On the other hand, unless I misread, Gil's ability works versus any
> particular target, so XDM wouldn't be appropriate. Loads of Increased
> Range, No Range Modifier, and Clairsentience are probably the way to go
> here.
True enough. However, it only worked if he got a very good picture through
some sensing equipment, which in all the stories I read of him only happened
twice. The XDM would be to "other end of very good, live action picture",
which comes up rarely enough: this could be viewed as a set of related
dimensions.
Paying for it the normal way, I'd expect him to use it much more often than
he did in the stories, and for it to be much more useful when used that way.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:34:30 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Heroic-level TK [was RE: [Off Topic] [5th Ed] Fuzed?]
>A useful ability in the real world, but not readily purchasable in
>HERO.
>
>Filksinger
Sure it is. Buy one point of TK STR. If you're into fractional
accounting you can buy 0.5 STR TK. What's so hard about that?
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/
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Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:36:57 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Heroic-level TK [was RE: [Off Topic] [5th Ed] Fuzed?]
>When the HSR talks about a "minimum cost" for a Power, does that refer
to
>a minimum base cost, or a minimum cost including Advantages and
>Limitations? For instance, if you wanted to build your STR 1 (or 2)
>Telekinesis, you could probably add enough Increased Range, No Range
>Modifiers, Invisible, etc. to push the cost up past the minimum listed
>(15 points?)
>
>Just curious.
>
>--Dennis
I ghave always read that as "the Minimum cost given that the GM doesn't
want characters with a million 1 point powers and wants the math to work
in nice, round figures.
I have basically ignore the minimum costs rule because I am more
interested in accurately portraying the character concept.
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://www.geocities.com/~tesral/jay/
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:30:32 -0700
From: Lizard <lizard@dnai.com>
Subject: Re: Heroic-level TK [was RE: [Off Topic] [5th Ed] Fuzed?]
On Mon, Jun 21, 1999 at 01:20:00PM -0400, David Nasset wrote:
> >My next
> >character adaption will probably be Gil Hamilton, agent of ARM.
>
> A character who I have long considered to point out a significant flaw
> in HERO, when used to simulate telekinetic powers in heroic games. It
> does not scale well to people who can move only very small masses. In
> the case of Gil Hamilton, he can't manage more than 10 ounces on Earth.
> A useful ability in the real world, but not readily purchasable in HERO.
>
>
Shrug. Buy 1 point of TK STR? The problem is that Hero point costs
don't include 'rarity' as a factor. A person who can life even a few
ounces, in a world where TK is effectively noneexistent, has extreme
power in that world -- but toss him into a typical superhero universe,
and his ability is effectively useless. (Assuming Vegas casinos have
anti-TK safeguards in place. OTOH, it would explain where Professor X
got all that money....danger rooms don't come cheap!)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:39:23 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: TK tricks
At 01:44 PM 6/21/1999 -0700, James Jandebeur wrote:
>> On the other hand, unless I misread, Gil's ability works versus any
>> particular target, so XDM wouldn't be appropriate. Loads of Increased
>> Range, No Range Modifier, and Clairsentience are probably the way to go
>> here.
>
>True enough. However, it only worked if he got a very good picture through
>some sensing equipment, which in all the stories I read of him only happened
>twice. The XDM would be to "other end of very good, live action picture",
>which comes up rarely enough: this could be viewed as a set of related
>dimensions.
Yeah, I could see that.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:22:21 PDT
From: St Julian Perkins Jr <sjp_enterprises@hotmail.com>
Subject: Teleportation Revisited
Greetings one and all.
Thanks to Archie for posting the original question & thanks for the input on
the teleportation power. The scenario that spawned the question is as
follows:
Four characters on custom motorcycles are herded into a trap in an alley;
one of them has 2 lvls DI, always on. A fifth character is in the alley,
aware of the trap, and trying to save the others. 10" of TP can save them
if he takes them all WITH him in one shot. The options appear to be:
Tp 10" w/ x16 extra mass, Ranged {to negate the touch limitation, BUT must
roll to 'acquire' all passengers}
Tp 10" w/ x16 extra mass, AE:Radius {to negate the touch and individual
targeting rolls}; no bonus for no range
Tp 10", Use Vs Others w/ x2 extra mass {the motorcycles}, AE:Radius, No
Range; The character goes along because he's always in the area effect
Tp 10", Plot Device, Use when GM feels like it. 8-)
Personally, I prefer the third option, but in the interest of fair play
would like other opinions Thanks again for the input.
L8r -- 8-)
Julian AKA
The Saint
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 99 16:50:13
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fantasy HERO & Questions about it...
On Tue, 01 Jun 1999 20:09:49 -0500, Lance Dyas wrote:
>
>
>qts wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 25 May 1999 22:57:45 -0400 (EDT), Jason Sullivan wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > You have to forgive my ignorance when dealing with the Heroic 75
>> >base + 75 point Disadvantages Fantasy HERO standard campagin. I'm very
>> >used to using the 100 point base + 150 point Disadvantage Superheroic
>> >Campagin rules from Champions.
>> >
>> > My first question arises:
>> >
>> > What to do about "Special Weapon Maneuvers."
>> >
>> > For example, in a Champions game, if I wanted a two-weapon knife
>> >fighter, I would buy a standard HKA with OAF, and then buy Autofire, OAF
>> >(the other knife), and Limited Power: Uses seperate Levels and attack
>> >rolls (-1/4) to simulate the ginsu-type chopping action of the two bladed
>> >attack.
>> >
>> >In Fantasy HERO, this is not so... you don't pay points for
>> >standard weapon attacks.
>>
>> >My question is: How do I resolve this?
>>
>> The 'two weapon' is SFX. You only get one hit on the opponent.
>> Otherwise you'd have people fighting with two katana. For the first
>> strike or two, you'd probably get an OCV bonus for the surprise of the
>> unusual fighting style - unless your opponent knew beforehand (eg
>> Reputation).
>>
>
>In the real world the most skilled of Martial Artist Samurai do indeed use
>two katana. I am sure they do so for some other reason than special effects
>;)
Well, yes - I have some swords and can wield two simultaneously. But
that doesn't mean that I can hit twice as often. The second sword is
often better used for blocking, and for providing an unexpected attack
- - you can switch the other sword to block. Not a lot of good against
ranged attacks, though.
But, in game terms, you only get one Strike per phase, and, I'd
suggest, 1/2 Str vs Disarms.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:00:44 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Partial Use of Powers
At 07:24 AM 6/21/1999 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>> I don't see how that's relevant. An Advantage should be defined by what it
>> does to enhance a Power, not by the pricing scheme.
>
>Well, it's not an Advantage, for one. It's not in the section for
>Power Advantages, and therefore it's not subject to the same rules.
If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... I'll rephrase my
earlier comment: An option should be considered an Advantage, or not, based
on what it does to enhance a Power, not on the basis of pricing scheme (or
on what page it appears in the book).
The No Fringe optional add-on increases the utility of the Power, in a way
that changes, if only slightly, the way the Power works. That is, it's not
just extra dice of effect. In my mind, that describes a Power Advantage.
Since this one only applies to Invisibility, I'm not troubled by the fact
that it was included under the writeup of Invisibility rather than in the
general Power Advantages section.
>> It could be argued that the +20 cost for time travel doesn't act like an
>> Advantage or an add-on option at all, but represents an either/or choice:
>
>It could equally be argued that the +10 cost for Invisibility acts the
>same way.
No, because for +10 points you get everything Invisibility normally does,
plus the advantage [lower-case "a", for now] of having no fringe effect.
In the XDM choice I described, you get *either* Spatial *or* [more
expensive] Temporal XDM, but Temporal XDM would not include the utility of
Spatial XDM; you'd *only* be able to move through time.
>Other examples of powers with additions that you don't always have to use:
>Clairsentience (as for XDM)
As with XDM, this *could* be interpreted as a set of distinct Powers you
choose from: Clairsentience (base cost 20 points), Precognition (base cost
40) or Retrognition (base cost 40); the ability to see in other dimensions
would be treated as an Advantage on whichever base Power you chose, but in
fact may be redundant with the Transdimensional Advantage. [I just re-read
both that Advantage and Power description, and cannot tell under what
circumstances, if any, you'd be required to have both, or why it would be
in any way desirable to do so.]
[remaining Power list snipped because I don't want to go through them all
one at a time.]
>It goes on to say that you must use all Advantages and Limitations...but
>Advantage is a specific word with a specific definition in the HERO
>system, and the 'no fringe' effect doesn't fall under that definition.
No? Let's look at that definition:
"Advantage: A modifier applied to a Power that makes the Power more useful.
This increases the cost of the Power because it makes the Power better."
That's the full definition of Advantage from the Glossary on page 212.
Is "No Fringe" a modifier? Yes, because it alters the Power in some way.
Note that the definition above uses lowercase, general usage version of the
word 'modifier'; it does not require that it be a Power Modifier
(capitalized, specific reference).
Does the "No Fringe" make the Power more useful? Yes.
Does the "No Fringe" increase the cost of the Power? Yes.
Does the Glossary definition require that an Advantage appear in any given
section of the book? No.
Does the Glossary definition exclude modifiers that use flat-cost pricing?
No.
Conclusion: Advantage is a specific word with a specific definition in the
HERO system, and nothing in that definition excludes the 'no fringe'
effect. You say potato, I say it's an advantage that *can* be treated as
an Advantage.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:06:19 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Heroic-level TK
At 01:34 PM 6/21/99 -0700, jayphailey@juno.com wrote:
>>A useful ability in the real world, but not readily purchasable in
>>HERO.
>>
>>Filksinger
>
>
>Sure it is. Buy one point of TK STR. If you're into fractional
>accounting you can buy 0.5 STR TK. What's so hard about that?
Well the thing is negative strength still lifts quite a bit, to whit:
STR KG LIFT
- -25 .8
- -23 1.0
- -20 1.6
- -18 2.0
- -15 3.2
- -13 4.0
- -10 6.4
-8 8.0
-5 12.5
-3 16.0
0 25.0
as you can see very tiny weights (even .8 kg is around 20 ounces) would
mean you actually got points BACK if you used standard math and bought TK
on it (1.5 x -25 = -31 points wooo!!! I get points for buying TK!!!). This
is why some powers have a minimum cost in my world when most don't, cause
they do something even at low levels.
Perhaps a doubling effect would be nice, start at like .1 KG for TK at 5
points, and double for each +3 points? Hmm lets see, the math on this...
LIFT STR EQUIV COST OLD COST
.1 -40 5 --
.2 -35 8 --
.4 -30 11 --
.8 -25 14 --
1.6 -20 17 --
3.2 -15 20 --
6.4 -10 23 --
12.5 -5 26 --
25 0 29 --
50 5 31 15
100 10 34 15
200 15 37 15
400 20 40 30
800 25 43 37
1600 30 46 45
3200 35 49 52
6400 40 52 60
12.5 T 45 55 67
25 T 50 58 75
50 T 55 61 82
100 T 60 64 90
200 T 65 67 97
400 T 70 70 105
Hmm interesting, probably underpriced but at least it would allow a
character to buy very low STR TK ... and the upper end would be lower so
the "TK costs too much" crowd would be happier (I think its well priced, TK
is INCREDIBLY useful).
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:05:11 -0700
From: Rodger Bright <rodger.bright@cbpr.com>
Subject: Re: Fantasy HERO & Questions about it...
I actually allow PC's that are super bad ass to buy 2 weapon attacking.
They have to have Ambidexterity, then they need to buy the DEX based skill
Florentine (fightinh with 2 weapons of equal length). They need to have martial
maneuvers that are compatible with florentining (i.e. a lunge does NOT work with 2
weapons, whereas a slash possibly could). They need to buy a 1 point "2nd Hand
Weapon use" for their martial maneuvers, AND they are at -2 OCV for each attack.
- --Rodger
qts wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Jun 1999 20:09:49 -0500, Lance Dyas wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >qts wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 25 May 1999 22:57:45 -0400 (EDT), Jason Sullivan wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > You have to forgive my ignorance when dealing with the Heroic 75
> >> >base + 75 point Disadvantages Fantasy HERO standard campagin. I'm very
> >> >used to using the 100 point base + 150 point Disadvantage Superheroic
> >> >Campagin rules from Champions.
> >> >
> >> > My first question arises:
> >> >
> >> > What to do about "Special Weapon Maneuvers."
> >> >
> >> > For example, in a Champions game, if I wanted a two-weapon knife
> >> >fighter, I would buy a standard HKA with OAF, and then buy Autofire, OAF
> >> >(the other knife), and Limited Power: Uses seperate Levels and attack
> >> >rolls (-1/4) to simulate the ginsu-type chopping action of the two bladed
> >> >attack.
> >> >
> >> >In Fantasy HERO, this is not so... you don't pay points for
> >> >standard weapon attacks.
> >>
> >> >My question is: How do I resolve this?
> >>
> >> The 'two weapon' is SFX. You only get one hit on the opponent.
> >> Otherwise you'd have people fighting with two katana. For the first
> >> strike or two, you'd probably get an OCV bonus for the surprise of the
> >> unusual fighting style - unless your opponent knew beforehand (eg
> >> Reputation).
> >>
> >
> >In the real world the most skilled of Martial Artist Samurai do indeed use
> >two katana. I am sure they do so for some other reason than special effects
> >;)
>
> Well, yes - I have some swords and can wield two simultaneously. But
> that doesn't mean that I can hit twice as often. The second sword is
> often better used for blocking, and for providing an unexpected attack
> - you can switch the other sword to block. Not a lot of good against
> ranged attacks, though.
>
> But, in game terms, you only get one Strike per phase, and, I'd
> suggest, 1/2 Str vs Disarms.
> qts
>
> Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
- --
Rodger Bright, Senior Network Engineer
Copithorne & Bellows
100 First Street 26th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94105
[415]-975-2251 Direct, [415]-284-5200 Main
[415]-243-9664 FAX, [888]-519-8546 Pager
rodger.bright@cbpr.com
rodger.bright.pager@cbpr.com (Alpha Paging)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:03:14 +0800
From: Allan Dunbar <adunbar@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Question about Concepts
At 12:04 21/06/99 EDT, you wrote:
>
> I am hoping that at least a few people on this list are familiar with
>the Wild Card series of books. If so:
>
> 1. How would one go about writing up Ti Malice and his "addictive"
>saliva and its effects on others?
>
> 2. How would one write up the Jumper's interesting variant on mind
>control?
>
> Jack Butler
>
>
The Jumpers were covered in the Ultimate Mentalist and let me tell you, they
are scary. Imagine, a mentalist with the jumper ability. Now imagine your
team brick. Now imagine the evil possibilities.
Ti Malice *shudder* is one of the characters from WildCards I was actually
interested in making. I can't remember if his saliva was physically or
mentally addictive. Regardless, it is better done as a Transformation
attack (since you are giving someone a disadvantage) cumulative. The
disadvantage would be along the lines of "Addicted to Ti Malice" - physical
or psychological depending on whether or not it was a physical or mental
addiction. And or, you could give a dependence, although drug addictions
and addictions in general are better handled as psychological or physical
disadvantages.
Additionally, there is his mind control, to reinforce the addiction.
Ti Malice was just such a swell guy...I loved what Popinjay did to him.
Just loved it.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:16:15 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Partial Use of Powers
>>> I don't see how that's relevant. An Advantage should be defined by
what it
>>> does to enhance a Power, not by the pricing scheme.
>>
>>Well, it's not an Advantage, for one. It's not in the section for
>>Power Advantages, and therefore it's not subject to the same rules.
>
>If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... I'll rephrase my
>earlier comment: An option should be considered an Advantage, or not, based
>on what it does to enhance a Power, not on the basis of pricing scheme (or
>on what page it appears in the book).
Here is my take on it. Add ons are not advantages, they are additional
'modules' to the power, like oh +1" of flight adds on to the power and
increases the utility of the power (I fly FASTER!). Advantages are clearly
labled as such, example:
Page 68: Entangle Stops a Given Sense: Entangles can be purcahsed so that
(they) are impervious to certain senses...to be impervious to one sense
group costs +10 points.
Page 68: Entangle Takes No Damage From Attack: This +1/2 ADVANTAGE
(emphasis mine) represents an entangle that is transparent to attacks...
As you can see if it is an Advantage they say so clearly, if it is an
add-on, they are just given a straight cost. Consider them to be extra
powers that only work in conjunction with a given power, rather than an
advantage. Your definition of Advantage applies to any power that you
spend points on (buying Force Wall? that +3 ED is an additional cost that
increases the utility of the PD force wall that you bought originally.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:42:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chuk Goodin <cgoodin@sfu.ca>
Subject: Re: Question about Concepts
On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jun 1999 JVButlerJr@aol.com wrote:
>
> > I am hoping that at least a few people on this list are familiar with
> > the Wild Card series of books. If so:
> >
> > 1. How would one go about writing up Ti Malice and his "addictive"
> > saliva and its effects on others?
>
> My character sheet for Ti Malice is here:
>
> http://www.otd.com/~susano/timalice.html
>
> There are over 100 Wild Cards characters here.
>
> > 2. How would one write up the Jumper's interesting variant on mind
> > control?
>
> It's not. It is some sort of massive Transform that allows one sto swap
> minds. The Ultimate Mentalist has notes on how to do this power. I also
> saw some other Wild Cards designs for these characters, they were *very*
> expensive.
Yep. Mine is available at:
http://www.mactyre.net/scm/deejay/champs/characters/wildcards/loophole.html
The character there doesn't actually have the jumper power, but he can
give it to other people. The jumper power itself is 480 pts. And it
should be; it's darn scary.
chuk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 20:05:57 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [we-be-games] 5th Ed. Teaser
At 12:38 PM 6/21/1999, qts wrote:
>>BobG and I discussed Star Hero's megahex system last year in connection
>>with TUV (though I don't know if it was included in the final edit) and I
>>used it to build some sensor probes for a Star Hero game. IIRC, it boiled
>>down to +1 per increase in scale:
>>
>> Kilohex scale = 1000" = +1
>> Megahex scale = 1,000,000" = +2
>> Gigahex scale... you get the idea
>>
>
>Going by your method, it would be better to use the normal rules for
>such large ranges.
Why?
Damon
>
>The problem here is that it doesn't follow the HSR standard of
>doubling.
>qts
>
>Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
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Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 04:16 PM