Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 421
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 1:13 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #421
champ-l-digest Wednesday, June 23 1999 Volume 01 : Number 421
In this issue:
Re: supplements
Re: Fantasy Hero - spell focus
Re: Fantasy Hero - spell focus
Re: Question about Concepts
Re: Partial Use of Powers
RE: Welcome to the Modern Age (fwd)
Re: Welcome to the Modern Age (fwd)
Darn, erased... Reply to ARM
Re: Full Strength Beers (was The Metric System)
Re: Welcome to the Modern Age (fwd)
Re: Top 5 things
Double Messages...
Re: Full Strength Beers (was The Metric System)
RE: Online Store
Re: Partial Use of Powers
No Fringe Debate
Re: Partial Use of Powers
Re: No Fringe Debate
RE: Fantasy Hero - spell focus
Re: Top 5 things
Re: Full Strength Beers (was The Metric System)
Re: Fantasy Hero - spell focus
Re: Top 5 things
Re: Welcome to the Modern Age (fwd)
Re: Welcome to the Modern Age (fwd)
Re: Top 5 things
Skills in VPP's (was Welcome to the Modern Age)
RE: Skills in VPP's (was Welcome to the Modern Age)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:22:41 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: supplements
At 06:29 PM 6/22/1999 -0500, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
>I may be one of the few people *not* anxiously awaiting the online store.
>I badly want a copy of New Bedlam Asylum, but I've decided to wait and see
>if it might ever come to a paper edition. [Insert tired old rehash of my
>opinion on Hero Plus "books" here.]
>
>I'd agree that taking time out to install any kind of work around at this
>stage would delay the debut of the online store, but, two questions:
Considering that the person(s) assembling this theoretical order form
would presumably be working for Hero Games (probably Bruce) while the
person(s) working on the online store have already been identified as
working for someone else (the ISP, I think), I don't think that this is the
case.
>1) So what? If there's a temporary fix that actually allows people to
>order stuff, it matters less that the online store will take longer.
Yes, this is the case.
>2) What happened to snail mail and the telephone? Am I to understand that
>this online store will be the only way to get product from Hero Games --
>that currently there is NO WAY to do so? It's not possible, right now, to
>send a check or money order, or phone in a credit card order?
The order form will make these easier. Other than that, your point is
(and should be) well taken.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:36:26 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero - spell focus
>Hey can someone help me? I don't have a copy of Fantasy Hero and I was
>wondering...What were the standard limitations put on spells? Thanks.
That's hard to answer, as it varies by how you understand magic to work.
Typically a skill roll, extra time, gestures, incantation, concentrate and
even side effects are included in various numbers.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:35:41 -0700
From: Rodger Bright <rodger.bright@cbpr.com>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero - spell focus
Well, you MUST have "requires a skill roll". In my game it is called
'Embrace the True Source'. Which means basically "Magic Skill Roll". For
each 10 active points in a power you apply a -1 to the skill roll.
I don't use a basic magic system in my game, but I discuss how it is all
done very thoroughly. Check it out, if you have any more questions, let me
know.
- --Rodger
http://i.am/altandara
Carl and Becka wrote:
> Hey can someone help me? I don't have a copy of Fantasy Hero and I was
> wondering...What were the standard limitations put on spells? Thanks.
- --
Rodger Bright, Senior Network Engineer
Copithorne & Bellows
100 First Street 26th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94105
[415]-975-2251 Direct, [415]-284-5200 Main
[415]-243-9664 FAX, [888]-519-8546 Pager
rodger.bright@cbpr.com
rodger.bright.pager@cbpr.com (Alpha Paging)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:56:18 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Question about Concepts
Wayne Shaw wrote:
> >At 10:31 PM 6/21/99 -0500, Ross Rannells wrote:
> >> Yes but where did Ti Malice go and what is the power that sent him
> >> there. Transdimensional Movement, usable against others, can send
> >> then anywhere the user is familiar with included figments of his owm
> >> imagination?!? That is an ungodly powerful...
> >
> >IIRC, the "figment" in question was based on Popinjay's nightmares of seeing
> >preserved joker-babies at the Jokertown museum. Remember what Ti Malice
> >*looks* like?
> >
> >I haven't read any of the later books, so I can't say this with 100%
> >accuracy, but I always read this that Popinjay unintentionally "popped" Ti
> >Malice into a jar of formaldehyde -- not literally into his nightmare, but
> >rather into the *source* of the nightmare.
>
> Personally, I suspect he really did go someplace like that nightmare, since
> we find out later with Chalktalk that there _are_ other dimensions in the
> Wild Cards universe.
Popinjay clearly stated that he sent Ty Malice to a location he new very
well, that location was in his nightmare. Not the Jokertown museum but
a location that was a figment of his owm imagination.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:03:50 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Partial Use of Powers
At 06:49 AM 6/22/1999 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>>The word 'module' does not appear in the Glossary; nor does 'add-on'. I
>>accept the use of these terms as accurate general descriptions, but as they
>>are not reserved [captilized] words with specific meaning, they cannot be
>>used exclusively. That is, you can't say they are the only words that
>>*can* correctly be used to describe those options.
>
> Advantages are Power Advantages, applied using the formula at the top of
>HSR page 90. What Christopher is referring to here is what the Hero Guys
>are now calling "Adders" (after the similar items from Fuzion).
Y'know, when I mentioned Fuzion a couple of posts back, I was told that
reference was irrelevant, 'cause Fuzion ain't Hero. ;)
Hey, no problem. If, beginning with 5th Ed, we're going to start using the
reserved term Adders to describe these things, that's fine. I don't know
what the Hero Guys are doing behind the scenes, and I hadn't seen anything
like that in print yet, so all I have to go on for now is what's in 4th Ed.
> Whether the "must-use" rule applies to Adders or not, I don't know. The
>HSR isn't clear on that point one way or the other.
Even after we start calling them Adders, a modifier that does what an
Advantage does (improves on the power via modification, not mere increase)
should be subject to the same restrictions as an actual Advantage. No
Fringe should be a must-use modifier; if you don't want to use it, you need
to buy Invisibility again.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:21:04 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Welcome to the Modern Age (fwd)
At 10:23 AM 6/22/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Stimulate, as in control.
>
>My prediction is that you'll see little plugs at the top of the spinal cords
>of USAF test pilots within five years. Lots of people are working on this
>technology. I first read about Motorola successfully sending reliable
>signals from a metal conductor to organic nerves three or four years ago.
>Obviously, they're not the only ones looking into this.
>
>Have a super day.
>BRI
>
Only problem is there are laws preventing them from _requiring_ surgery.
But I can see it becoming a popular ELECTIVE.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:22:02 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Welcome to the Modern Age (fwd)
At 07:44 AM 6/22/99 -0700, you wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Curt Hicks wrote:
>>
>> > > From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
>> > >
>> > > One step at a time, next they'll be able to stimulate thought in
humans too.
>> >
>> > s*T*imulate or s*I*mulate ?
>>
>> I'm thinking 'simulate'.
>>
>
>Dunno. Sometimes stimulating thought in humans seems to be the harder task.
>
>-Ben (who is off topic, but can't resist a straight line)
>
But it has already done that, hasn't it. I count at least four people
thinking because of this article.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:25:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Darn, erased... Reply to ARM
Most of my messages in my mailbox got erased...
There were a few questions I wanted to contribute...
Here's one...
That ARM thing is just like a combination of your write up of Darth
Vader's TK Choke, your suggestions on how to write up the Crow, Ozzy's
Prediction powers, 'cept the (optionally BECV) TK is used along with
Clairsentience, IIF (Television Monitor and Camera), Can only see what
Camera Sees (-1). Make the (optionally BECV) TK require a PER roll
(Requires Skill Roll: Perception) and penalize the power by standard
rules for crappy reception or bonus it for crystal clarity.
Thou hast the answers, Michael. Now make us proud!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 01:45:50 -0400
From: "Dale A. Ward" <daleward@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Full Strength Beers (was The Metric System)
Greetings!
David Nasset wrote:
>
> Sounds like a fan of the Viking brews.
>
> It's made of these ingredients, of hops, dead bears, and snow.
> And what gives it its color, you do not want to know.
> But of all the world's great lagers, there's none to stand beside a
> Brew that keeps your liver alive long after you have died.
>
> Personally, the only thing I'll drink, as a rule, is 307 Ale.
>
> Filksinger
Personally, I think beer and ale are okay... fer them folks whut raises thar
pinkies when they drinks!
Now, if'n y'all want sumthin good, I know whar thar's a still runnin' off the
finest corn likker you ever put a lip to... heck, if ya pull back a few bushes,
you can look right down on top o' Fort Knox, KY and the revenooers STILL ain't
found it!
Dale Ward
****************************************
* Did you ever notice when you blow in *
* a dog's face he gets mad at you? *
* But when you take him in a car, *
* he sticks his head out the window. *
****************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 01:48:52 -0400
From: "Dale A. Ward" <daleward@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Welcome to the Modern Age (fwd)
Greetings!
Michael Surbrook wrote:
> > >One step at a time, next they'll be able to stimulate thought in humans too.
> >
> > Now, that would *really* be advanced technology!
>
> Cute typo.
>
> BTW: that does lend itself to some superhero ideas, doesn't it?
>
Wasn't there a TV show or movie back in the 70's about a guy who had some sort
of mental problem, but he could receive "programming" from his doctors/keepers,
basically pumping him up to genius level (but only for one subject at a time).
The programming had a rather generous fade rate, but still managed to conk out
at the most inopportune moment (leaving him a tossed-salad-from-the-neck-up once
more).
Yeah, I know... as far as I'm concerned, PC means "pretentious crap".
Dale Ward
************************************************
* Everyone thinks I'm psychotic... *
* except for my friends deep inside the earth. *
************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 01:49:59 -0400
From: "Dale A. Ward" <daleward@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Top 5 things
Greetings!
Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>
> This would also avoid the problem of having a lower SPD character with a
> higher per phase movement catching up with a higher SPD character with a
> lower per phase move, even if the higher SPD character is moving at a
> higher rate per turn. For example, Character A has SPD 3 and 30" Flight;
> this character moves at 90" per turn. Character B has SPD 5 and 25" Flight,
> thus moving 125" per turn. If combat begins on Segment 12 and B attempts to
> flee from A, he'll be overtaken, despite the fact that B started moving
> first and is moving at a theoretically higher rate.
>
There is real world precedent for your example above. Take the case of a 250cc
motorcycle vs. a muscle car... from a standing start, the motorcycle will have
the edge for about 5 seconds (until the muscle car overcomes its inertia). But,
nobody would argue that the motorcycle is faster. It just has better
acceleration off the line.
I would agree, however, that the movement rules need to be separated from SPD
somehow. I'm not "up to speed" on the movement rules... are there any provisions
made for acceleration factors?
You hardly ever encounter drag racing in a medieval fantasy setting... can you
imagine a warhorse with a 3 second e.t.?!? Talk about champin' at the bit!
Dale Ward
*******************************
* Madness Takes It's Toll!! *
* Left Lane Exact Change Only *
*******************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 02:02:25 -0400
From: "Dale A. Ward" <daleward@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Double Messages...
Greetings!
It has been brought to my attention (by my cat, no less) that I sent out
replies to 2 messages that were addressed to the list AND the original authors.
Mike Surbrook and Bill Svitavsky... I apologise for the double messages you
will find in your mail.
My cat has also just pointed out that I am having intelligent conversation with
a feline... in his own language. This would seem to indicate that sleep is
required...
TTFN
Dale Ward
*********************************************************
* Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, *
* for they are subtle and will piddle on your computer. *
*********************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:37:52 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@deskmail.com>
Subject: Re: Full Strength Beers (was The Metric System)
From: Dale A. Ward <daleward@ix.netcom.com>
<snipo>
> >
> > Personally, the only thing I'll drink, as a rule, is 307 Ale.
> >
> > Filksinger
>
> Personally, I think beer and ale are okay... fer them folks whut
raises thar
> pinkies when they drinks!
>
> Now, if'n y'all want sumthin good, I know whar thar's a still
runnin' off the
> finest corn likker you ever put a lip to... heck, if ya pull back a
few bushes,
> you can look right down on top o' Fort Knox, KY and the revenooers
STILL ain't
> found it!
I guarantee nothing made anywhere in Kentucky has the kick of 307 Ale.
You won't find a stronger drink on the planet.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 01:48:05 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Online Store
At 01:13 PM 6/22/99 -0600, you wrote:
>As someone else who does this stuff for a living, I say "give up".
>
>Hero's been advertising an online store, on and off, for well over a year.
>It hasn't happened yet, despite the "any day now" messages.
>
>If Hero had picked an appropriate (or even half-decent) ISP the first time,
>they might have had a store by now. Instead they're on their third ISP in
>the last few years. And still no store.
>
>It's just like Fantasy Hero 2.5. It never happened and probably never will.
>
>Terry Wilcox
>terry@arcane.com
IIRC, 1 or 2 ISPs ago the store was working, at least for a while. And
with ISPs, they're cropping up everywhere and it's hard to tell who's good
and who's not. And I'll wager Hero was looking to save some bucks (as I
understand it a high volume website can cost hundreds of dollars per month)
and so didn't go with the very biggest ISP out there. They got a few
lemons, and while they do seem to have unfairly bad luck, I doubt it's
really their fault.
But it does make them look bad, and sometimes appearance is more important
than reality.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:25:11 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Partial Use of Powers
At 08:57 AM 6/22/1999 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
>
>> Tunneling allows a character to move through the ground by creating a
>> tunnel; this does not change meaningfully if the character buys +1 DEF for
>> 3 points. The character can still tunnel through the ground, and that's
>> all he can do. The ability to fill in the tunnel behind the character
>> could be considered an Advantage, because it creates a distinction from the
>> base Power: it allows the character to do something the base Power does
not.
>
>But it is clearly *NOT* an advantage.
>
>Advantages MUST be used at all times - everyone agrees on this.
>
>The character who pays the +10 points MAY fill in the tunnel if he so
>wishes - that's clear from the Tunnelling writeup.
Oops. You're right, of course. The ability to fill in the tunnel cannot
be considered an Advantage. (This is what happens when I let myself get
distracted from the original point of the discussion; I should have
remained focused on No Fringe.)
>Also, the other big difference between Advantages by the HERO definition
>and any other added cost, which I have not seen you deal with:
>
>Added costs like No Fringe and Fills in Tunnel add to the BASE COST.
>
>Power Advantages add to the ACTIVE COST.
After reading the several messages that followed the above comment, it
seems there is some difference of opinion over your statement. And on
whether or not the FAQ can resolve that question (I read it this morning
and didn't see anything on the subject). I think I'll let you, Rat and the
others sort that part out.
Not to be obtuse, but anything that adds to the Base Cost also adds to the
Active Cost, whether or not any [other] Advantages are applied:
Invisibility (20) + 10 for No Fringe = 30 Active. In this simple example,
the Active Cost is derived by applying the cost increase associated with No
Fringe to the base cost of Invisibility. That's the same thing you do with
Power Advantages: you apply their cost increase factor to the base cost to
get Active Points. It doesn't strike me as a relevant distinction that the
power advantages we all call Power Advantages involve multiplication, while
the power advantages Bob (and the Hero Guys, apparently) refer to as Adders
involve only addition.
To paraphrase my earlier statements, an option should be considered an
Advantage or not based on how it affects the nature, scope and utility of
the Power, not on which mathematical operation is used to determine the
cost increase for that Power.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:35:23 -0400
From: John P Weatherman <jweatherman@lsfi.com>
Subject: No Fringe Debate
Consider the following Power:
Invisibility, No Fringe +10, No END Cost (+1/2), Concentration (-1/4)
If No Fringe is an Advantage the +10 is not part of the base cost, so
the cost calculation becomes:
((20x1.5)+10)/1.25=32
On the other hand, if No Fringe is NOT an advantage, but an "Adder",
the plus 10 is part of the base cost, resulting in:
((20+10)x1.5)/1.25=36
Personally, I think the latter is correct, but YMMV.
John
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:54:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Partial Use of Powers
On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
> At 08:57 AM 6/22/1999 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
> >On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
> >
> >> Tunneling allows a character to move through the ground by creating a
> >> tunnel; this does not change meaningfully if the character buys +1 DEF for
> >> 3 points. The character can still tunnel through the ground, and that's
> >> all he can do. The ability to fill in the tunnel behind the character
> >> could be considered an Advantage, because it creates a distinction from the
> >> base Power: it allows the character to do something the base Power does
> not.
> >
> >But it is clearly *NOT* an advantage.
> >
> >Advantages MUST be used at all times - everyone agrees on this.
> >
> >The character who pays the +10 points MAY fill in the tunnel if he so
> >wishes - that's clear from the Tunnelling writeup.
>
> Oops. You're right, of course. The ability to fill in the tunnel cannot
> be considered an Advantage. (This is what happens when I let myself get
> distracted from the original point of the discussion; I should have
> remained focused on No Fringe.)
So, Tunnelling is a sole exception to this 'Advantage' policy?
> >Also, the other big difference between Advantages by the HERO definition
> >and any other added cost, which I have not seen you deal with:
> >
> >Added costs like No Fringe and Fills in Tunnel add to the BASE COST.
> >
> >Power Advantages add to the ACTIVE COST.
>
> After reading the several messages that followed the above comment, it
> seems there is some difference of opinion over your statement. And on
> whether or not the FAQ can resolve that question (I read it this morning
> and didn't see anything on the subject). I think I'll let you, Rat and the
> others sort that part out.
OK, good, I'm not going insane. I didn't see it in there either.
> Not to be obtuse, but anything that adds to the Base Cost also adds to the
> Active Cost, whether or not any [other] Advantages are applied:
So anything that adds to the Active Cost is an advantage? If you go that
route, then *everything* is an Advantage, because buying anything with a
Base Cost raises the Active Cost as well. That is clearly not the case.
My biggest problem is that if it adds only to Active Cost, that is very
much *not* clear in the books. After all, the formula for Active Cost is
given as:
Active Cost = Base Cost x (1 + Advantages)
Clearly we're not meant to multiply base cost by 11 for the 'no fringe'
power...and the formula isn't AC = BC x (1 + Advantages) + Flat Fee
Advantages...so that at least implies it's not an Advantage, and that it
adds to Base Cost, and is therefore 'switchable'.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:38:45 -0500
From: "Bobby Farris Jr." <BJ@redbow.net>
Subject: Re: No Fringe Debate
John P Weatherman wrote:
> Consider the following Power:
> Invisibility, No Fringe +10, No END Cost (+1/2), Concentration (-1/4)
> If No Fringe is an Advantage the +10 is not part of the base cost, so
> the cost calculation becomes:
> ((20x1.5)+10)/1.25=32
> On the other hand, if No Fringe is NOT an advantage, but an "Adder",
> the plus 10 is part of the base cost, resulting in:
> ((20+10)x1.5)/1.25=36
> Personally, I think the latter is correct, but YMMV.
Actually, this is they way that I have always done it. I would be
interested in what everyone else says. I was on the side of the argument
that said No Finge is an advantage, however, I have to say that now I am
not so sure.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:38:25 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Fantasy Hero - spell focus
Hi,
I allow my players to take the 'hard to recover' lim on foci even if the
focus in not expendable. The only danger with this limitation is that the GM
has to be aware of it and make it a hassle in an appropriate way. Every now
and again, you've got to target spell foci, grab 'em, smash 'em and hide
them under the sofa cushions. If one of your PC's has taken 'hard to
recover', he has a problem. How big of a problem is defined by the size of
the 'hard to recover' lim.
Soooo.... let's talk about creative ways to take away foci. Here are a
couple of cool things I've seen people do to kill foci.
The Mosaic Hand: An artifact of an ancient war. This is a steam/magic
powered over sized prosthetic hand with a big TK that only effects magic
items [foci]. Once the Hand has successfully grabbed retreived the foci from
its owner, it returns to the hand where the hydrolics kick in and start
crushing the focus into dust. The crushing is an uncontrolled continuous BOD
Drain against the focus in question. So the user can go on with his day
while the Hand continues its destructive work.
Pillage Bomb: This relates to last week's area effect tport debate. The
Pillage Bomb is a manually triggered expendable focus. When the bomb is
triggered, it sets off a long range NC teleport with AoE:Radius and extra
mass. The teleport only effects inanimate objects. This was used against my
PC's laboratory in his underground stronghold in a high end FH game. It's
excellent for quickly snatching up all the things a high mage keeps in his
lab like large foci, grimoires, artifacts being investigated, workbenches,
traps, floors, cages around animals, all that fun stuff. Does it ever suck.
However, the thing that makes it fun is that someone needs to bring it in
and they don't leave when it goes off.
So, what's the dirtiest, sneakiest, most underhanded way that you've ever
stripped a character of their focus?
BRI
] I'm doing spell design for a fantasy hero setting.
] I see that there are limitations for extra time to prepare a focus up
] to one day with a skill roll required.
] I also see that there are limitations for spells that require
] an expendable
] material based on the cost of the material.
]
] What if my spell focus takes more than a day to prepare ?
] What if it's an expensive item, but one that is not expended when the
] spell is cast ?
]
] Curt hicks
]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:56:37 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Top 5 things
At 01:49 AM 6/23/99 -0400, Dale A. Ward wrote:
>Greetings!
>
>Bill Svitavsky wrote:
>>
>> This would also avoid the problem of having a lower SPD character with a
>> higher per phase movement catching up with a higher SPD character with a
>> lower per phase move, even if the higher SPD character is moving at a
>> higher rate per turn. For example, Character A has SPD 3 and 30" Flight;
>> this character moves at 90" per turn. Character B has SPD 5 and 25" Flight,
>> thus moving 125" per turn. If combat begins on Segment 12 and B attempts to
>> flee from A, he'll be overtaken, despite the fact that B started moving
>> first and is moving at a theoretically higher rate.
>>
>
> There is real world precedent for your example above. Take the case of a
250cc
>motorcycle vs. a muscle car... from a standing start, the motorcycle will
have
>the edge for about 5 seconds (until the muscle car overcomes its inertia).
But,
>nobody would argue that the motorcycle is faster. It just has better
>acceleration off the line.
>
> I would agree, however, that the movement rules need to be separated from
SPD
>somehow. I'm not "up to speed" on the movement rules... are there any
provisions
>made for acceleration factors?
>
Yes, acceleration could explain the situation in the example you quoted
above. I don't think it could explain my later example, which I'll repeat
here for clarity:
- ---------------
Character C is SPD 4, DEX 15, with 13" Flight. (52" per turn.)
Character D is SPD 5, DEX 20, with 12" Flight. (60" per turn.)
On Segment 3, D moves first: 12" toward their mutual goal. D is immediately
passed by C moving 13".On 5, D moves another 12"; D has moved 24" now. On
6, C moves another 13" for a total of 26" covered. On 8, D takes the lead
once again (36" total). On 9, C passes yet another time (39"). Finally, on
10 D takes the lead and keeps it.
While this can capture the feel of a neck and neck race, it probably
shouldn't - that's more the role of Pushing. It's pretty absurd for two
characters moving at constant rates to pass each other again and again.
- --------------
In any event, it seems odd to couple acceleration to the situation of
having a lower SPD and DEX but higher move than your opponent. If I want a
character with instantaneous acceleration, do I have to give him SPD 1 DEX
0 (or lower)?
The old vehicle rules in Champions II had a characteristic for
Acceleration. While I think it was a good idea for the 4th edition to bring
vehicle construction more in line with character construction, I do miss
ACC. It seems to me it would be handy to have a consistent method to define
different capacities for acceleration in both vehicles and characters.
Bill Svitavsky
(P.S. No problem about the multiple responses, Dale. It's an easy mistake
to make; I've done it myself a few times, and some people seem to do it
habitually.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:17:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Mucchiello <jmucchiello@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Full Strength Beers (was The Metric System)
- --- Filksinger <filkhero@deskmail.com> wrote:
> From: Dale A. Ward <daleward@ix.netcom.com>
>
>
> <snipo>
> > >
> > > Personally, the only thing I'll drink, as a rule, is 307 Ale.
> > >
> > > Filksinger
> >
> > Personally, I think beer and ale are okay... fer them folks whut
> raises thar
> > pinkies when they drinks!
> >
> > Now, if'n y'all want sumthin good, I know whar thar's a still
> runnin' off the
> > finest corn likker you ever put a lip to... heck, if ya pull back a
> few bushes,
> > you can look right down on top o' Fort Knox, KY and the revenooers
> STILL ain't
> > found it!
>
> I guarantee nothing made anywhere in Kentucky has the kick of 307
> Ale.
> You won't find a stronger drink on the planet.
I don't know how many other people care but unless you guys are
collaborating on The Ultimate Brewer could you stop discussing beers on
this RPG mailing list? The list gets far too many on topic posts as it
is.
Thanks,
Joe
_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:29:54 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero - spell focus
At 12:20 AM 6/23/1999 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Carl and Becka <c_hewett@bellsouth.net>
>Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero - spell focus
>
>Hey can someone help me? I don't have a copy of Fantasy Hero and I was
>wondering...What were the standard limitations put on spells? Thanks.
It varies from one Spell College to another. Most common were Focus
(varied when used, but usually OAF), Gestures, Incantations, and of course
Requires Skill Roll.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:23:38 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Top 5 things
At 01:49 AM 6/23/1999 -0400, Dale A. Ward wrote:
>
> I would agree, however, that the movement rules need to be separated from
SPD
>somehow. I'm not "up to speed" on the movement rules... are there any
provisions
>made for acceleration factors?
In my manuscript for TUV, I address acceleration in regard to size (you
mentioned how a larger vehicle has some extra inertia to overcome), and
allow Acceleration and Deceleration as Talents. I don't know if these will
make the final cut of the book, though, especially the latter idea; they
might've been sliced, or on the other hand they might've been transplanted
into the 5th Edition main rulebook.
> You hardly ever encounter drag racing in a medieval fantasy setting...
can you
>imagine a warhorse with a 3 second e.t.?!? Talk about champin' at the bit!
How would one *do* drag racing in such a setting? I think chariot races
and straight horse races would be two completely different things from that.
(Of course, whenever I see or hear the phrase, "drag racing," I think of
the classic SNL skit with Eric Idle and Dan Ackroyd....)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:28:07 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Welcome to the Modern Age (fwd)
At 01:48 AM 6/23/1999 -0400, Dale A. Ward wrote:
>
> Wasn't there a TV show or movie back in the 70's about a guy who had some
sort
>of mental problem, but he could receive "programming" from his
doctors/keepers,
>basically pumping him up to genius level (but only for one subject at a
time).
>The programming had a rather generous fade rate, but still managed to conk
out
>at the most inopportune moment (leaving him a
tossed-salad-from-the-neck-up once
>more).
I remember that show. As far as I can recall, it never got past the
two-hour pilot stage.
As I remember, it seems that an Air Force pilot was captured by the
Chinese, and convicted of espionage. It took only a couple of years to get
him back, but that was long enough for the Chinese to do medical
experiments on him, one of which involved a chemical that wiped out his
memory and left him with only language and motor skills. American
scientists figured out how to "download" skills into his brain, either in
the lab or over the telephone, though these skills vanished after 72 hours.
I don't recall the name of this show, but it's one thing that makes me
hesitate when someone says that a VPP can't be used for Skills (because
that's the only way I can think of to represent what this guy had).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:42:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Welcome to the Modern Age (fwd)
On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> As I remember, it seems that an Air Force pilot was captured by the
> Chinese, and convicted of espionage. It took only a couple of years to get
> him back, but that was long enough for the Chinese to do medical
> experiments on him, one of which involved a chemical that wiped out his
> memory and left him with only language and motor skills. American
> scientists figured out how to "download" skills into his brain, either in
> the lab or over the telephone, though these skills vanished after 72 hours.
> I don't recall the name of this show, but it's one thing that makes me
> hesitate when someone says that a VPP can't be used for Skills (because
> that's the only way I can think of to represent what this guy had).
I did use a VPP for skills in the Kazei 5 book. It was used for a
piece of cyberware called Skilljack that let one 'plug-in' skills as
needed. Typical skills for a Skilljack would be WFs, TFs, AKs and
languages.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Feel the sting of a Draconian stun-stick, Erf-trash!"
A jive Draconian, from the TV show _Buck Rogers in the 25th Century_
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:47:25 -0400
From: Bill Svitavsky <nbymail11@mln.lib.ma.us>
Subject: Re: Top 5 things
At 07:23 AM 6/23/99 -0700, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 01:49 AM 6/23/1999 -0400, Dale A. Ward wrote:
>>
>> I would agree, however, that the movement rules need to be separated from
>SPD
>>somehow. I'm not "up to speed" on the movement rules... are there any
>provisions
>>made for acceleration factors?
>
> In my manuscript for TUV, I address acceleration in regard to size (you
>mentioned how a larger vehicle has some extra inertia to overcome), and
>allow Acceleration and Deceleration as Talents. I don't know if these will
>make the final cut of the book, though, especially the latter idea; they
>might've been sliced, or on the other hand they might've been transplanted
>into the 5th Edition main rulebook.
>
I hope these do get included somewhere. Though from what Steve Long told us
about the 5th Edition's take on Talents, they could be Skills or Powers now.
And if they don't include Deceleration, well, those are the brakes...
Bill Svitavsky
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:55:58 PDT
From: Jesse Thomas <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Skills in VPP's (was Welcome to the Modern Age)
On Wed, 23 Jun 1999 Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
> I don't recall the name of this show, but it's one thing that makes me
>hesitate when someone says that a VPP can't be used for Skills (because
>that's the only way I can think of to represent what this guy had).
>---
The other way would be to use Cramming and Skill Levels (either Overall
Levels or Levels bought specifically for 'Crammed' skills).
Sadly, people object to that just as strongly as they do against skills in
VPP's. And for the same reason. Technically against the rules.
<sigh> All of my best ideas are illegal, both in Hero and reality...
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:10:00 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: RE: Skills in VPP's (was Welcome to the Modern Age)
From: Jesse Thomas [SMTP:haerandir@hotmail.com]
>On Wed, 23 Jun 1999 Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
>
>> I don't recall the name of this show, but it's one thing that
makes me
>>hesitate when someone says that a VPP can't be used for Skills
(because
>>that's the only way I can think of to represent what this guy had).
>>---
>
>The other way would be to use Cramming and Skill Levels (either Overall
>Levels or Levels bought specifically for 'Crammed' skills).
>
>Sadly, people object to that just as strongly as they do against skills
in
>VPP's. And for the same reason. Technically against the rules.
I'd allow something like that, but with special limitations.
A) You cannot ever use skill levels with Crammed skills.
B) You can stack Cramming. If you want to have a 3 pt skill, then you
need Cramming three times. Each level of Cramming gives you one point of
skill.
This is still potentially full of abuse, but it could work.
><sigh> All of my best ideas are illegal, both in Hero and reality...
Surely you aren't going to let that stop you....
Filksinger
------------------------------
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Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 04:17 PM