Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 428
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 7:11 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #428
champ-l-digest Friday, June 25 1999 Volume 01 : Number 428
In this issue:
Re: Odd of the Everchanging
Re: Serial Immortality
Re: Mental Defense and other questions
Re: Serial Immortality
Re: Serial Immortality
ENEMIES OF SAN ANGELO ships Monday!
Re: Serial Immortality
Re: Mental Defense and other questions
Re: Serial Immortality
Re: Mental Defense and other questions
meeting date
Re: Mental Defense and other questions
Re: Serial Immortality
Re: Mental Defense and other questions
Re: No Fringe Debate (New terms proposed)
Re: Deconstruction Blues (PC Robots)
Re: Mental Defense and other questions
Re: Need some help w/Martial maneuvers
Re: Odd of the Everchanging
Re: Mental Defense and other questions
Re: Mental Defense and other questions
Re: No Fringe Debate (New terms proposed)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:02:59 -0400
From: Geoff Speare <geoff@igcn.com>
Subject: Re: Odd of the Everchanging
> If someone were to Mind Scan and telepathy Odd, they wouldn't
>expect that Odd is a Shape Shifter.
I would go for Images to the Mental Sense Group: really good telepaths can
see through it, but otherwise you are all set.
Geoff Speare
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:55:00 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: Re: Serial Immortality
I am beginning to have doubts that we have the same abilities in mind on
this topic. Lets look at several forms of immortality, and we can discuss
what the best ways to simulate each is, and whether or not any are
munchkinee.
Character heals from anything: Under new rules, Regeneration from beyond
death. If character only heals at a normal rate, this is 20 pts.
Character's body vanishes. Character is found later, alive, somewhere else:
As above, but Teleport, maybe?
Character's body does not vanish. Character is found later, alive, exactly
as he was.
Character dies normally. Character is found later in a new body, with
exactly the same knowledge, personality, and skills.
Character dies normally. Character is found later, in a new body, with
different skills, but remembers (somewhat), having been someone else.
Character dies normally. Character is reborn as a baby with all knowledge
and skills of previous incarnation.
Character dies normally. Character is reborn as a baby, but only partly
remembers having lived before.
Some of these, such as the last, should probably cost the original character
very little. In fact, if your campaign has a religion built into it, this
may just be the way things work.
Now, we know how number one works. What about the others? The SFX and game
effects are sufficiently different that they cannot all be free. How should
these be simulated? I'm sure you can understand why I can't call #2 just
"SFX of buying a new character with KS: Past lives".
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 1999 16:09:02 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Mental Defense and other questions
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com> on Fri, 25 Jun 1999
| I really wish I had the book on me. I don't think that suppress works as
| the continuous advantage does and I could of sworn this was in the
| suppress power description.
It is not so much as how Suppress works as how Continuous powers used in an
offensive capacity work. If you use it offensively, it requires a
half-phase attack action to maintain.
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE3c+Hegl+vIlSVSNkRAsTuAJ47mgNRJrS11DESc1vsyQcf2A9JmACdGjDN
z+gP7YPgRTlTIJihAQdr+Qw=
=yq/Y
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:08:18 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Serial Immortality
> As a GM I've never killed off a player's character. And you do charge
> them more than a confection, you take away all of their XPs. I reward
> the player with XPs for showing up and for good role-playing. The fact
> that he writes those XPs on his current character sheet is incidental.
> That might not be the way you are looking at XPs but over the last
> couple decades I've found that that makes more sense in a good game.
You're still missing something very important, here: I'm not talking about
what I would do to a player. I'm talking about how to cover the situation if
I was the player. I have never killed a Hero character that the player did
not want to have killed for whatever reason, and rarely killed characters in
other game systems. IF it came up, I would consider allowing the person to
be built on more points, to be balanced with the other characters in the
game and if it was necessary. However, I know other GM's would not allow
this without a power, and I wouldn't expect them to, so I came up with that
construct for that purpose.
Moreover, it covers more than just keeping experience: like purchasing any
other form of immortality, it covers the schtick of coming back to life when
"killed". The schtick itself would be worth a few points to me if I was
playing the character. Even if it never comes up. But, when it comes down to
it, yes, the only game mechanical effect is to keep your experience with a
new character. Since you insisted on looking for a practical application of
those points, that's what I focused on. And am accused of munchkinism for
it.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:21:00 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: Re: Serial Immortality
From: Joe Mucchiello [SMTP:jmucchiello@yahoo.com]
>--- James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to> wrote:
>> Generally, though, sans experience points. I admit freely that this
>> is the primary mechanical advantage to this power construct. But if
>> the player wants to show off the ability to die and come back from
>> time to time, this seems preferable to actually having them lose
>> their points.
>
>Well, then, that's where we differ. I don't dump the new character
>down to original campaign start CPs. I generally have them restart at
>5-10 points below the average XP level. So only if they had the
>highest XP total before dying would it be a lot of XP.
Unless you wanted to rewrite the rules to make the game match your campaign,
that's house rules. The original poster wanted a general way of designing
the Power in general, not just for games where you are GM.
>> > Sounds munchkinnie to me.
>>
>> For something like 20 points in the 5th Edition, there's apparently
>> going to be the ability to come back from the dead. Many people
>> already play that having Regeneration with no further powers allows
>> you to do this. That's seven points more to be a munchkin, or even as
>> low as 10 for the regeneration as it is currently written up.
>
>Yep, and I'm only charging 3 points to the next character. But
>remember I consider the "Please don't let me lose my XPs" part to be
>munchkinnie. Obviously if I want to charge less for the ability, I
>don't consider serial immortality munchkinnie.
Why should people who die and come back to life in the same body get their
XP, when people who get a different body are "munchkinnie" for wanting the
same thing? Quite a few concepts people have asked to do did _not_ involve
becoming another person with nothing more than KS about the last one.
Suppose my Power was that, when I died, a spell placed upon me caused my
soul to float to a far-off magic glade, where a brand new magically cloned
body was waiting. Why would a guy whose body just heals get his XP, while
I'm "munchkinnie" if I want the same thing but with a body that appears
elsewhere?
<snip>
>Also, whether or not he gets all skills back is a SFX/concept question.
Yes. But you're concept seems to be wedded to the SFX/concept of "I am a
completely different person with memories of a past life". It doesn't do all
SFX well, and it wouldn't work in many campaigns.
>Personally though, I give the XP to the player. They put them on the
>character sheet. There is no reason to penalize the player for his
>character's death if he was playing the character properly. If someone
>roleplayed a death really well, they might return with more XPs.
That's nice for your campaign, but doesn't help someone who wants the power
in mine.
>> Since the power to come back from death is (supposed to be) coming
>> up, and since I was talking about using that with a limitation, you
>> presumably consider that power cheesy.
>
>Well, would you remove the player's XP for dying? You'll do it to the
>guy who didn't buy the 20 point power. Is that fair?
Why not? He paid for it.
You don't seem to object to charging 20 pts for "Can heal back if dead".
Yet, in many campaigns, no one ever dies. In such campaigns, wouldn't it be
unfair to the guy who paid 20 pts never to die that other people's
characters never die either, but they get it for free?
>> ... And if someone wants this power as their schtick, I will charge
>> them appropriately for it. If they die in the natural course of the
>> game, and want to be a reincarnation of their first character, I will
>> simply have them buy the KS as you suggest, and perhaps will give
>> them an infusion of points later in the game as they start fully
>> remembering their previous life more (depending on various
>> circumstances).
>
>I didn't realize you were going to use my suggestion if this ever came
>up. Cool.
I'd gladly use it, too, _if_ it fit what I wanted to do with serial
immortality. It generally doesn't. It sounds more like "reincarnation",
which is a subset of serial immortality, and one of the wimpiest versions.
<snip>
>Besides, I told you I would let someone have the power for the cost of
>the KS. Their new character would have a different XP value to realign
>them with campaign norms.
All of this assumes that the new character is a _new character_. What about
people who want the same character, but he gets a brand new _identical_ body
each time he dies?
<snip>
>As a GM I've never killed off a player's character.
Don't you find it unfair to charge them for the ability to heal from the
dead, since only people with that power would ever die?
<snip>
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:19:27 EDT
From: GoldRushG@aol.com
Subject: ENEMIES OF SAN ANGELO ships Monday!
Much to my surprise, I contacted the printer and Enemies of San Angelo (GRG
Stock # H301) is being bound tonight and will ship out Monday. Hooray!
This also means that Enemies of San Angelo *will* appear at Origins this
year.
Mark @ GRG
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:13:27 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Serial Immortality
> Character heals from anything: Under new rules, Regeneration from beyond
> death. If character only heals at a normal rate, this is 20 pts.
Okey dokey.
> Character's body vanishes. Character is found later, alive, somewhere
else:
> As above, but Teleport, maybe?
I'm not sure the character's body vanishing is actually worth points, and
almost certainly not worth as many points as it would probably cost using
Teleport with Only at "death"(-2?). I suppose it does prevent being carted
off and put in a capsule and sunk into the ocean, though. Hmm, maybe another
of those instances of that nasty use of EDM is in order. (sorry: XDM)
> Character's body does not vanish. Character is found later, alive, exactly
> as he was.
Put Invisible Power Effects on the previous Teleport or XDM.
> Character dies normally. Character is found later in a new body, with
> exactly the same knowledge, personality, and skills.
The new body could be covered with Distinctive Features: New face, for
probably 5 points. More if it causes major social difficulties. It's easily
concealable because it only comes up on death: if death happens frequently,
it might be more. Otherwise, this might be as above.
> Character dies normally. Character is found later, in a new body, with
> different skills, but remembers (somewhat), having been someone else.
Depends on a variety of things. Here's what I have so far:
1. Player only going to do this once: No charge, new character takes the KS.
2. Player wants it as a major part of character, XP associated with
character (lost on death): Regeneration with limitations, mainly Side
Effect, becomes someone else. A bit cheap, perhaps, but it shouldn't be
happening too often, especially considering the trouble it causes. The
alternative would be to have the character lose points for character
concept, which is generally not good.
3. Player wants it as a major part of character, XP associated with player
(not lost on death): No charge, or very little. The only game mechanical
effect of (2) is that you keep the points with the new character. In Fuzion,
I might charge a 3 point Schtick talent (mentioned since there is the
possibility of 5th Edition having it); in Hero 4th, it might be a
small-point Perk, or a larger one if warranted by the campaign.
There are probably others.
> Character dies normally. Character is reborn as a baby with all knowledge
> and skills of previous incarnation.
Ouch. That is getting into the realm of major and permanent (well, lasting
years) side effect or something on the power. If you need to grow up all
over again, it may be just that 3 point Immunity to Death from the UMA. I
don't know that I'd go so far as saying no charge, though, unless the other
PC's all did it too.
> Character dies normally. Character is reborn as a baby, but only partly
> remembers having lived before.
There your going into the realm of pure special effect: even taking the
suggested KS: Past Life might be pushing it. It could be an Everyman skill
or Familiarity for that kind of vague knowledge, depending on whether others
do it too.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:27:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Mental Defense and other questions
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> on Fri, 25 Jun 1999
>| Sorry, but that is _not_ how Continuous attacks work. A Continuous attack
>| works just like a Constant Power, as per the description of the Continuous
>| Advantage. Constant Powers do not even require a half-phase action to
>| maintain them only to use them initially(see pg 52 BBB Deluxe). Further
>| attacks are completely legal.
>
>>From the FAQ:
>
><p>Bruce "I'm Line Editor So I'm Right" Harlick sez:</p>
>
><blockquote>
>A Continuous Attack Power requires that a character spend a half-phase
>attack action to maintain the Power. He could make a half-move, but could
>not make any full move maneuvers, nor could he launch any other attacks. To
>be able to launch new attacks or do full moves the Attack Power would also
>need to be Uncontrolled for a total Advantage of +1 1/2.
></blockquote>
Then I hope to hell they note that in the new edition, because there isn't a
_hint_ of it under the Contuous rules or Constant. Every GM I've ever known
once you had a Continuous attack on someone let you do whatever else you
pleases as long as you A) stayed awake, B) kept the target within LOS and C)
Kept paying the Endurance. Frankly, if applied to some of the already
constant attack powers (like Suppress and TK) it makes them tantamount to
useless for the user.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:51:00 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: Re: Serial Immortality
From: James Jandebeur [SMTP:james@javaman.to]
<snip>
>
>I'm not sure the character's body vanishing is actually worth points, and
>almost certainly not worth as many points as it would probably cost using
>Teleport with Only at "death"(-2?). I suppose it does prevent being carted
>off and put in a capsule and sunk into the ocean, though. Hmm, maybe
another
>of those instances of that nasty use of EDM is in order. (sorry: XDM)
I'd say that "Only at 'death'" is worth -3, at least, combined with either
"Only one location -2" or "Random location -1", at least. However, I'd
probably go XDM or the new cheaper long range teleport movement powers.
Additionally, you can dramatically reduce the cost by increasing the amount
of time it takes. For instance, if your new body appears in a year, you have
saved considerable points on the Teleport. Of course, unless the campaign
does years in real-world days, your character is out of the action for a
while.
>> Character's body does not vanish. Character is found later, alive,
exactly
>> as he was.
>
>Put Invisible Power Effects on the previous Teleport or XDM.
That would be one way to do it. I probably wouldn't charge for it; after
all, why is leaving a body behind more than SFX on the TP? It isn't really
worth any more than most SFX are, certainly not such a large amount. If
anything, it is more an inconvenience, if not worse. "I can prove you aren't
Capt. Marvelous! I have exhumed his body, and it is positively identified as
him!"
>> Character dies normally. Character is found later in a new body, with
>> exactly the same knowledge, personality, and skills.
>
>The new body could be covered with Distinctive Features: New face, for
>probably 5 points. More if it causes major social difficulties. It's easily
>concealable because it only comes up on death: if death happens frequently,
>it might be more. Otherwise, this might be as above.
Sounds fairly good. Additionally, the new Social Limitation might cover
this: SL: Not recognized as former self. After all, it only affects how you
interact with people when you want to be known as Don, but look like Dawn.
Mostly a social problem. It wouldn't usually be a DF, because most people
would never notice. Even your old friends would never notice, if you didn't
call attention to your new self. "Jim, its me, Frank!" "Get away from me,
you crazy woman! Frank wasn't even black!"
Could be Side Effects, using the optional (or possible new) rules for giving
people Disadvantages as Side Effects. Or Side Effects: Transformation into
entirely new person w/Social Limitation "Not recognized as past self".
>> Character dies normally. Character is found later, in a new body, with
>> different skills, but remembers (somewhat), having been someone else.
>
>Depends on a variety of things. Here's what I have so far:
<snip>
>
>> Character dies normally. Character is reborn as a baby with all knowledge
>> and skills of previous incarnation.
>
>Ouch. That is getting into the realm of major and permanent (well, lasting
>years) side effect or something on the power. If you need to grow up all
>over again, it may be just that 3 point Immunity to Death from the UMA. I
>don't know that I'd go so far as saying no charge, though, unless the other
>PC's all did it too.
I might not go for no charge, either, but I suspect that, if the character
always comes back as a player-character level being, then the first is
probably more valuable than the second. I'd probably charge less for this
version than the previous one.
>> Character dies normally. Character is reborn as a baby, but only partly
>> remembers having lived before.
>
>There your going into the realm of pure special effect: even taking the
>suggested KS: Past Life might be pushing it. It could be an Everyman skill
>or Familiarity for that kind of vague knowledge, depending on whether
others
>do it too.
Agreed.
I don't see that we actually disagree significantly on this issue, at all.
We just got off on the wrong foot.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:02:03 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Mental Defense and other questions
>><p>Bruce "I'm Line Editor So I'm Right" Harlick sez:</p>
>>
>><blockquote>
>>A Continuous Attack Power requires that a character spend a half-phase
>>attack action to maintain the Power. He could make a half-move, but could
>>not make any full move maneuvers, nor could he launch any other attacks. To
>>be able to launch new attacks or do full moves the Attack Power would also
>>need to be Uncontrolled for a total Advantage of +1 1/2.
>></blockquote>
>
>Then I hope to hell they note that in the new edition, because there isn't a
>_hint_ of it under the Contuous rules or Constant. Every GM I've ever known
>once you had a Continuous attack on someone let you do whatever else you
>pleases as long as you A) stayed awake, B) kept the target within LOS and C)
>Kept paying the Endurance. Frankly, if applied to some of the already
>constant attack powers (like Suppress and TK) it makes them tantamount to
>useless for the user.
Look under Uncontrolled for more information on it. The quote from
Uncontrolled is:
"A Continuous or Constant power with this Advantage can maintain itself
without conscious thought from its user... or a power can be a Power with
the Power Advantage Continuous."
"Once the character has set up an Uncontrolled Power, he is not restricted
in any way -- he can make more attacks for example."
(Page 98)
Now I have always read from that two things, one, that only a continuous
power can be uncontrolled (obviously) and that you cannot attack if you
have a continous attack power in place (not as obvious but inferred easy
enough). The FAQ apparently makes it more clear.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:38:36
From: <workshop@npcollege-edu.net>
Subject: meeting date
From:New Products Institute(NPI)
To:The participants in
NewAmerica University(NU)workshops.
Re:Your inquiry about the workshops:
SFN Sholarships,Internet Crime
Syndicate,Learn Unusual Professions,
Dismantling of the IRS.
For the workshop dates email to Judy
Anderson from http://newamerica.org/
But,if you no longer need this info,
please delete your name from the
Participants List by contacting:
ListStud@pacbell.net
B.Morrison
workshop@npcollege-edu.net
PS:When you request info from EDU
or R&D institution,your email might be
forwarded to the NU via the SFSE to
search for the requested material.
(The NU is a member of the
SFSE/Scientific Facts Search Engine).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:19:34 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Mental Defense and other questions
> Now I have always read from that two things, one, that only a continuous
> power can be uncontrolled (obviously) and that you cannot attack if you
> have a continous attack power in place (not as obvious but inferred easy
> enough).
However, like Mr. Shaw I know a number of people who have not interpreted
Constant or Continuous powers that way, and in fact don't myself. Perhaps
that was what was intended, but it did not come through that way in the
final work, at least not clearly. And personally, I prefer it the other way:
there are several instances where the character will start up a power to
affect one person, then another, then another, and so on, and it eventually
becomes a continuing strain on them. That isn't covered with Uncontrolled,
it is covered by the incorrect/house rule application of Constant or
Continuous powers. If this is clarified in the new rules, then that idea
becomes a bit messy.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:27:08 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Serial Immortality
> I'd say that "Only at 'death'" is worth -3, at least,
I was thinking that it was about the equivalent of Uncontrolled, but I
suppose it could be more. I'm also used to thinking of Limitations in -1/4
to -2 chunks, but that's beside the point.
> combined with either
> "Only one location -2" or "Random location -1", at least. However, I'd
> probably go XDM or the new cheaper long range teleport movement powers.
I do keep forgetting about those.
> Additionally, you can dramatically reduce the cost by increasing the
amount
> of time it takes. For instance, if your new body appears in a year, you
have
> saved considerable points on the Teleport. Of course, unless the campaign
> does years in real-world days, your character is out of the action for a
> while.
Ouchie.
<in response to invisible power effects on the Teleport/XDM>
> That would be one way to do it. I probably wouldn't charge for it; after
That depends to a certain extent on the character: there are some that I
could see it being a benefit for (those that WANT people to believe they're
dead, for whatever reason) that it might be an Advantage for. However, that
might make the power too expensive for the effect again, so it's probably
better to not charge for it, yes.
> Sounds fairly good. Additionally, the new Social Limitation might cover
> this: SL: Not recognized as former self. After all, it only affects how
you
> interact with people when you want to be known as Don, but look like Dawn.
Forgot about that, too. But DF is the current closest thing, I should think:
the Feature that is Distinctive is that you are trying to be someone you
look nothing like.
> Could be Side Effects, using the optional (or possible new) rules for
giving
> people Disadvantages as Side Effects. Or Side Effects: Transformation into
> entirely new person w/Social Limitation "Not recognized as past self".
That last is how I suggested it be done, pretty much, when the character is
completely different.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:24:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Mental Defense and other questions
>>><p>Bruce "I'm Line Editor So I'm Right" Harlick sez:</p>
>>>
>>><blockquote>
>>>A Continuous Attack Power requires that a character spend a half-phase
>>>attack action to maintain the Power. He could make a half-move, but could
>>>not make any full move maneuvers, nor could he launch any other attacks. To
>>>be able to launch new attacks or do full moves the Attack Power would also
>>>need to be Uncontrolled for a total Advantage of +1 1/2.
>>></blockquote>
>>
>>Then I hope to hell they note that in the new edition, because there isn't a
>>_hint_ of it under the Contuous rules or Constant. Every GM I've ever known
>>once you had a Continuous attack on someone let you do whatever else you
>>pleases as long as you A) stayed awake, B) kept the target within LOS and C)
>>Kept paying the Endurance. Frankly, if applied to some of the already
>>constant attack powers (like Suppress and TK) it makes them tantamount to
>>useless for the user.
>
>Look under Uncontrolled for more information on it. The quote from
>Uncontrolled is:
>"A Continuous or Constant power with this Advantage can maintain itself
>without conscious thought from its user... or a power can be a Power with
>the Power Advantage Continuous."
>"Once the character has set up an Uncontrolled Power, he is not restricted
>in any way -- he can make more attacks for example."
>(Page 98)
>
>Now I have always read from that two things, one, that only a continuous
>power can be uncontrolled (obviously) and that you cannot attack if you
>have a continous attack power in place (not as obvious but inferred easy
>enough). The FAQ apparently makes it more clear.
All I read from that was that the conditions that normally deactivated
Continuous powers (moving out of line of sight or going unconscious...or,
say switching a multipower) did not apply. Admittedly, I didn't notice the
'can make more attacks' line. But if this was supposed to be the case,
you'd sure as hell never know it from Continuous, or it's reference to
Constant, neither of which address this at all.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:57:25 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: No Fringe Debate (New terms proposed)
At 09:44 AM 6/25/1999 -0500, Bobby Farris Jr. wrote:
>I guess, you could make a house rule that you could change your effects the
>way you have said above. However what do you do for the character that has
>bought that Armor Piercing Energy Blast and can't turn off the Armor
Piercing?
>Now you have to make up a Limitation for him.
No house rule is needed for this, nor does it require a new Limitation be
invented. If you want to be able to "turn off" Armor Piercing, all you
have to do is apply Variable Advantage when you buy the Power; then when
you don't want an Armor Piercing attack, switch to another Advantage of the
same value: Autofire, Explosion, Increased STUN Multiplier (if it's a
Killing Attack), Penetrating, Ranged...any of these might be appropriate
depending on the what the base Power is, and the SFX of the Power.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:42:37 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Deconstruction Blues (PC Robots)
At 10:44 AM 6/25/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> I'm working on a PC who is very much an Automaton type character.
>
> I want her to have typical Automaton powers and Automaton traits.
>
> Among these traits, I want to simulate the ability to resist STUN
>damage and Not Bleed. I am unsure wether this should be a limited form
>of Armor or a special form of Aid.
How about just giving her Takes No STUN and Does Not Bleed?
> I would also want her to have classic Automaton powers. This is
>up for debate... What first comes to mind are mostly powers centered in
>and around her form. Armor, LS, PowDef, MenDef are all possibilities.
>Most of these are resistances, but to have problems in the long run.
>Buying STR and Running 0 END are possibilities as well.
These are all quite reasonable. In fact, you could have the character
actually bought as an Automaton, with the exception of having an EGO
characteristic.
> Something I have never been able to figure out in HERO: How to
>make an "Omni Jointed" character. A character who can swerve wrists,
>elbows, shoulders, etc. around and around, bent in any which way, as long
>as it's along a joint.
I think Double Jointed, alone, could manage this. If you don't feel
right with that, maybe you can have the charater take it twice.
> A while ago, there was a discussion about having a
>"Deconstructable Body", or a body that could be disassembled into parts
>with no ill effect to the user other than being deprived of the particular
>limb for use. If anyone recalls this post (or has a copy of it), I would
>greatly appreciate if you could forward it to me (or contact me).
Ditto. In fact, there might be enough interest in this to post it to
the list in general....
> I would also like to have the Automaton/Vehicle flaw of having
>systems that "kink out" if damaged.
I have a system for that, based on something Sean Fannon did, but I'm a
little tight for time this afternoon. Tomorrow I can see if I can find the
URL for Sean's rules, or else the time to type in the relevant portion. (I
included the rule in TUV, with Sean's blessing, but it may not get in the
final cut.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:45:51 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Mental Defense and other questions
At 09:57 AM 6/25/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> on Fri, 25 Jun 1999
>| Sorry, but that is _not_ how Continuous attacks work. A Continuous attack
>| works just like a Constant Power, as per the description of the Continuous
>| Advantage. Constant Powers do not even require a half-phase action to
>| maintain them only to use them initially(see pg 52 BBB Deluxe). Further
>| attacks are completely legal.
>
>From the FAQ:
>
><p>Bruce "I'm Line Editor So I'm Right" Harlick sez:</p>
>
><blockquote>
>A Continuous Attack Power requires that a character spend a half-phase
>attack action to maintain the Power. He could make a half-move, but could
>not make any full move maneuvers, nor could he launch any other attacks. To
>be able to launch new attacks or do full moves the Attack Power would also
>need to be Uncontrolled for a total Advantage of +1 1/2.
></blockquote>
This does clear it up, officially, as far as I'm concerned.
The next question is, does this clarification appear in the final Hero5
manuscript? :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:48:09 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Need some help w/Martial maneuvers
At 09:39 AM 6/25/1999 -0700, Rodger Bright wrote:
>Once again i am at work, have an idea, but don't have a rule book in front of
>me.
>
>I am working on a martial maneuver for an Archetype that is a "Passing
Strike"
>
>It should do extra damage for velocity.... Who remembers the cost of adding
>Velocity to a martial maneuver? And is it v/2 or v/5?
Passing Strike, in TUMA, is 5 pts, +1 OCV, +0 DCV, STR+v/5, Full Move.
>(I should really keep an Ultimate Martial Artist with me at all times!)
Yeah, I do (at least, when I'm going to do email)! :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:52:32 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Odd of the Everchanging
At 02:38 PM 6/25/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> Odd of the Everchanging belongs to a race of Shape Shifts able to
>take the form of any humanoid creature.
>
> Odd's powers not only allow it to change forms, but also set up a
>convincing "mental screen."
>
> If someone were to Mind Scan and telepathy Odd, they wouldn't
>expect that Odd is a Shape Shifter.
>
> This "Mental Deception" is the effect I'm trying to aceive, and I
>need help with the Power Construct.
>
> One Power Construct would be Mental Defense, Only to Prevent
>Surface Thought Scans, with Invisible power effects. The only thoughts
>that would get through would be the "shapeshifted" ones.
> Another would be a Damage Shield or Triggered Mental Illusions or
>Mind Control, Only to Convince Opponent that Character is Shapeshifted
>Form.
> Another would be ShapeShift BECV... (I don't expect this one to
>get mass appeal).
> Another would be Invisibility to the Mental Sense Group, Invisible
>Power Effects, with the effect being "normal thoughts" as opposed to the
>"shapeshifted" ones.
If I'm understanding what you're after correctly, Shape Shift actually
is the best way to go, at least if you go by TUM. The suggestion there
(one I go along with) is not to buy Shape Shift BOECV, but Shape Shift that
affects one's mental self rather than one's physical self, for the same
cost.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:03:29 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Mental Defense and other questions
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
> Then I hope to hell they note that in the new edition, because there isn't
a
> _hint_ of it under the Contuous rules or Constant. Every GM I've ever
known
> once you had a Continuous attack on someone let you do whatever else you
> pleases as long as you A) stayed awake, B) kept the target within LOS and
C)
> Kept paying the Endurance. Frankly, if applied to some of the already
> constant attack powers (like Suppress and TK) it makes them tantamount to
> useless for the user.
Keeping in mind that Mr. Harlick is the Line Editor I would assume that the
change would be in the new edition of the rules assuming of course that the
quote is accurate. Still doesn't make it a part of the current rules
though.
Alan
HeroRPG-owner@onelist.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:08:14 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Mental Defense and other questions
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
> Look under Uncontrolled for more information on it. The quote from
> Uncontrolled is:
> "A Continuous or Constant power with this Advantage can maintain itself
> without conscious thought from its user... or a power can be a Power with
> the Power Advantage Continuous."
> "Once the character has set up an Uncontrolled Power, he is not restricted
> in any way -- he can make more attacks for example."
> (Page 98)
>
> Now I have always read from that two things, one, that only a continuous
> power can be uncontrolled (obviously) and that you cannot attack if you
> have a continuous attack power in place (not as obvious but inferred easy
> enough). The FAQ apparently makes it more clear.
You are right that is not an obvious assumption at all and clearly
contradicts the section on page 52 of BBB Deluxe last paragraph at the
bottom of the first column which clearly and specifically states that a
half-phase action is NOT required to maintain a Constant power that is used
to affect a target. Combine that with what is written under the section
describing the Continuous Advantage that states that Continuous Powers are
handled exactly the same as Constant Powers and even refers the reader to
the section I just described on page 52 and there shouldn't be any
difficulty in understanding how Constant and Continuous Powers work.
Weigh that against what Rat has posted which is from a FAQ that is supposed
to "clarify points" not change rules but simply "clarify" the rules as
written and there shouldn't be a question.
Even if the portion of Rat's 'FAQ' that disagrees with this is a direct
quote from Mr. Harlick it is in the wrong place. A self-purported "Points
of Clarity list" should not include outright rule changes. The fix for this
error should be published by Hero Games or at least made available in an
Errata for the book. I don't have my copy of the Errata to the original BBB
handy but if this rule change is in there then I offer my apologies to the
FAQ and question why this change was not included in my copy of the BBB
Deluxe for which I paid a fairly large sum of money compared to other games
and supplements.
Alan
HeroRPG-owner@onelist.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:09:00 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: Re: No Fringe Debate (New terms proposed)
From: Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin [SMTP:griffin@txdirect.net]
<snip>
>No house rule is needed for this, nor does it require a new Limitation be
>invented. If you want to be able to "turn off" Armor Piercing, all you
>have to do is apply Variable Advantage when you buy the Power; then when
>you don't want an Armor Piercing attack, switch to another Advantage of the
>same value: Autofire, Explosion, Increased STUN Multiplier (if it's a
>Killing Attack), Penetrating, Ranged...any of these might be appropriate
>depending on the what the base Power is, and the SFX of the Power.
What if you want no Advantage at all? Given the present rules, the Power
couldn't do this. Why? Because if it did, you wouldn't be using the Variable
Advantage, and that violates the rule that you must use all Advantages.:)
BTW, if you consider this silly, you are correct. But it is also true.
Filksinger
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #428
*****************************
Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 04:17 PM