Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 429
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 1999 12:30 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #429
champ-l-digest Saturday, June 26 1999 Volume 01 : Number 429
In this issue:
RE: Variable powers
Re: Continuous/Constant attacks
Re: Mental Defense and other questions
RE: meeting date
Re: 100 pts.
Re: Continuous/Constant attacks
Re: Continuous/Constant attacks
Re: Partial Use of Powers
Re: No Fringe Debate (New terms proposed)
RE: Variable powers
Re: Partial Use of Powers
Re: Variable powers
Re: Variable powers
Re: Variable powers
Ofcr. Natalie Kelley, SAPD Mounted Detail
The Ultimate Boxer
RE: Variable powers
Re: Variable powers
RE: Variable powers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:18:24 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: RE: Variable powers
>>I guess, you could make a house rule that you could change your effects the
>>way you have said above. However what do you do for the character that has
>>bought that Armor Piercing Energy Blast and can't turn off the Armor
>Piercing?
>>Now you have to make up a Limitation for him.
>
>No house rule is needed for this, nor does it require a new Limitation be
>invented. If you want to be able to "turn off" Armor Piercing, all you
>have to do is apply Variable Advantage when you buy the Power; then when
>you don't want an Armor Piercing attack, switch to another Advantage of the
>same value: Autofire, Explosion, Increased STUN Multiplier (if it's a
>Killing Attack), Penetrating, Ranged...any of these might be appropriate
>depending on the what the base Power is, and the SFX of the Power.
Yeah but what if you don't want to use ANY advantages? The alternative is
to buy every power with an advantage on it in a Multipower with two slots
(with advantage, without advantage). While this works and is technically
according to the rules, it is awfully odd, and would be better served, I
believe, with an advantage:
VARIABLE EFFECT: This advantage allows powers to be used more flexibly than
normally possible. Energy blast with this may be used as stun only or
normal; an area effect attack with this may be used as a normal blast or as
the area effect, and so forth. A very partial list of examples would be:
- -Changing the PD or ED level of a defense power such as Force Field without
changing the other defense
- -Using a power with an advantage, such as Area Effect, with or without the
advantage
- -Varying the size of an Area Effect such as Radius or Ring to smaller than
its full area covered
- -Making the attack normal or stun only
- -Varying the DEF and BOD of an Entangle attack
- -Varying the senses affected by a Darkness or Images power
This cannot be used to represent any effect that another power or advantage
already does, it simply allows simple variation with the power. The GM
must keep a close watch on the power, as it often can be better represented
with a Multipower, and has great potential for abuse. Consider this to
have a magnifying glass next to it.
+1/4 advantage
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:27:59 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: Continuous/Constant attacks
>> Now I have always read from that two things, one, that only a continuous
>> power can be uncontrolled (obviously) and that you cannot attack if you
>> have a continuous attack power in place (not as obvious but inferred easy
>> enough). The FAQ apparently makes it more clear.
>
>You are right that is not an obvious assumption at all and clearly
>contradicts the section on page 52 of BBB Deluxe last paragraph at the
>bottom of the first column which clearly and specifically states that a
>half-phase action is NOT required to maintain a Constant power that is used
>to affect a target. Combine that with what is written under the section
It does say you do not have to continue making attack rolls to affect a
target with a constant power each phase, you make one attack roll and it
keeps working. However, it does NOT say that you can then make other
attacks while maintaining that one power. It doesn't talk about this at
all really, so you can't say either way from this section:
"If a Constant Power works against a target, then it requires an Attack
Roll on the Phase the Power is activated. ...However, the character does
not have to make a new Attack Roll or use a Half-Phase action to maintain
the Power; once such a Constant Power is set up, the character can do
whatever he wants."
The "whatever he wants" comes with a standard unstated caveat: legally
permissable (as in he is not given free reign to act 145 times on a single
phase, make 5 attack rolls or increase his experience points by 50% simply
by that line).
>Weigh that against what Rat has posted which is from a FAQ that is supposed
>to "clarify points" not change rules but simply "clarify" the rules as
>written and there shouldn't be a question.
I agree, but sometimes people will do that in any game system, they realize
changes are needed and they are stuck in the FAQ and hopefully later
editions. Magic: the Gathering is horrible about this, they make direct
contradictions to previous rules in a FAQ and you are supposed to just know
this by the next time you play (the Forcefield alteration is an infamous
example of this, later reversed in a subsequent FAQ).
>handy but if this rule change is in there then I offer my apologies to the
>FAQ and question why this change was not included in my copy of the BBB
>Deluxe for which I paid a fairly large sum of money compared to other games
>and supplements.
They did add in a lot of new stuff like "Transdimensional" which I have
only used once, but it would be nice to see this kind of thing yes.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 1999 19:37:29 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Mental Defense and other questions
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com> on Fri, 25 Jun 1999
| Weigh that against what Rat has posted which is from a FAQ that is supposed
| to "clarify points" not change rules but simply "clarify" the rules as
| written and there shouldn't be a question.
Ahem.
"This is the unofficial Champions/Hero System Points of Clarity List. It
is a resource of official and unofficial clarifications to many commonly
^^^^^^^^
asked questions and ambiguous rules. [...]
It is not *just* a POC list.
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE3dBK5gl+vIlSVSNkRAoVjAKDcpOw+NNHT0SkXOXg6wswPR+RJAgCgkjr7
X/9F0huapOjWWTAp3c6gsZk=
=w2tu
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 19:40:19 -0400
From: David Nasset <dnasset@cns.eds.com>
Subject: RE: meeting date
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
- ------_=_NextPart_000_01BEBF62.23D84E92
Content-Type: text/plain
Whatever you do, do not respond directly to this. Whether you flame them or
ask to be removed from their list, they'll just collect your name and add it
to a list to be sold to other spammers. Aside from being spammers, they are
unethical in that they claim to be a college, but have no accreditation,
else they would have a real .edu domain, instead of this fake .edu domain.
Unfortunately, only the list manager is in a position to properly trace
these guys to their ISP. After going through the list server, I wouldn't
trust a trace done on it to get to the proper place.
Filksinger
From: workshop@npcollege-edu.net [SMTP:workshop@npcollege-edu.net]
>Sent: Friday, June 25, 1999 4:39 AM
>To: champ-l@sysabend.org
>Subject: meeting date
>
>
>From:New Products Institute(NPI)
>To:The participants in
>NewAmerica University(NU)workshops.
>
>Re:Your inquiry about the workshops:
>SFN Sholarships,Internet Crime
>Syndicate,Learn Unusual Professions,
>Dismantling of the IRS.
>
>For the workshop dates email to Judy
>Anderson from http://newamerica.org/
>
>But,if you no longer need this info,
>please delete your name from the
>Participants List by contacting:
>ListStud@pacbell.net
>
>B.Morrison
>workshop@npcollege-edu.net
>
>PS:When you request info from EDU
>or R&D institution,your email might be
>forwarded to the NU via the SFSE to
>search for the requested material.
>(The NU is a member of the
>SFSE/Scientific Facts Search Engine).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
- ------_=_NextPart_000_01BEBF62.23D84E92
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64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- ------_=_NextPart_000_01BEBF62.23D84E92--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 99 01:03:44
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 100 pts.
On Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:47:00 -0400, David Nasset wrote:
>A couple of times, people have asked what you would get yourself if some
>alien or genie gave you 10 or 15 pts. I think this is pretty chincy.
>
>The God of People Who Need to Get a Life has just given you 100 pts.
>What do you purchase?
9 LS: Disease, Aging, Poison
20 4D6 Luck
15 Wealthy
10 +10 Pre (to 20)
5 + 10 COM (to 20)
7 +7 INT (to 20)
6 +3 EGO (to 13)
3 Oratory
3 Persuasion
3 Seduction
3 Streetwise
3 High Society
1 KS: Trivia
10 10x assorted KS
5 1 pt Regeneration OOC Only (-1)
Others have suggested Universal Translator: why bother when when you
have Wealth, you can just hire a translator?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 19:20:31 -0500
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Continuous/Constant attacks
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
> It does say you do not have to continue making attack rolls to affect a
> target with a constant power each phase, you make one attack roll and it
> keeps working. However, it does NOT say that you can then make other
> attacks while maintaining that one power. It doesn't talk about this at
> all really, so you can't say either way from this section:
>
> "If a Constant Power works against a target, then it requires an Attack
> Roll on the Phase the Power is activated. ...However, the character does
> not have to make a new Attack Roll or use a Half-Phase action to maintain
> the Power; once such a Constant Power is set up, the character can do
> whatever he wants."
>
> The "whatever he wants" comes with a standard unstated caveat: legally
> permissable (as in he is not given free reign to act 145 times on a single
> phase, make 5 attack rolls or increase his experience points by 50% simply
> by that line).
I know English is a difficult language but it isn't that difficult. This is
not a difficult sentence to understand. Playing semantics to the point of
absurdity is, well... pointless. The phrase "whatever he wants" when used
in reference to the phrase "maintain the Power" means to be free of
restrictions caused by the task of maintaining the power. Otherwise it
would be a ridiculous passage.
Alan
HeroRPG-owner@onelist.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:02:16 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <christopherrt@home.net>
Subject: Re: Continuous/Constant attacks
>> It does say you do not have to continue making attack rolls to affect a
>> target with a constant power each phase, you make one attack roll and it
>> keeps working. However, it does NOT say that you can then make other
>> attacks while maintaining that one power. It doesn't talk about this at
>> all really, so you can't say either way from this section:
>>
>> "If a Constant Power works against a target, then it requires an Attack
>> Roll on the Phase the Power is activated. ...However, the character does
>> not have to make a new Attack Roll or use a Half-Phase action to maintain
>> the Power; once such a Constant Power is set up, the character can do
>> whatever he wants."
>>
>> The "whatever he wants" comes with a standard unstated caveat: legally
>> permissable (as in he is not given free reign to act 145 times on a single
>> phase, make 5 attack rolls or increase his experience points by 50% simply
>> by that line).
>
>I know English is a difficult language but it isn't that difficult. This is
>not a difficult sentence to understand. Playing semantics to the point of
>absurdity is, well... pointless. The phrase "whatever he wants" when used
>in reference to the phrase "maintain the Power" means to be free of
>restrictions caused by the task of maintaining the power. Otherwise it
>would be a ridiculous passage.
Well, yes and no, that caveat wasn't aimed at you, it was sort of a slight
at what often happens where someone will try to get away with murder
because of a line in a rule book, sorry it was a little sarcastic :)
However I should note that if another rule says you cannot make further
attacks while maintaining a constant power, the "whatever he wants" would
not negate that rule.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:13:05 -0400
From: Juan Antonio Ramirez <tonio@prtc.net>
Subject: Re: Partial Use of Powers
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
<snip>
> (20 x (1 + 0.5)) + (10 x (1 + 0.5))
> which is simplified to
> (20 + 10) x (1 + 0.5)
> and simplified further to
> 30 x (1 + 0.5)
> because addition is commutative[1].
Um, ok, so this is a cheap shot, irrelevant, nitpicking, whatever... but the
engineer in me wouldn't let it pass, sooorry. :p
The commutative property of addition is the one that makes the following true:
3+2 = 2+3
I believe you refer to the distributive property:
(a x c) + (b x c) = (a+b) x c
Hmph... "New Math" inDEED!
*chuckle*
- --Tonio
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 20:15:12 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: No Fringe Debate (New terms proposed)
At 04:09 PM 6/25/1999 -0400, David Nasset wrote:
>What if you want no Advantage at all? Given the present rules, the Power
>couldn't do this.
Given the present rules, you can do this. You just have to buy the Power
twice; once with and once without the Advantage.
"The rules don't provide a way to do this" is not the same thing as "the
rules don't provide a way to do this that makes sense to me."
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 20:48:26 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: RE: Variable powers
At 04:18 PM 6/25/1999 -0700, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>VARIABLE EFFECT: This advantage allows powers to be used more flexibly than
>normally possible. Energy blast with this may be used as stun only or
>normal; an area effect attack with this may be used as a normal blast or as
>the area effect, and so forth. A very partial list of examples would be:
>
>-Using a power with an advantage, such as Area Effect, with or without the
>advantage
As you noted above (though you didn't like it) Variable Advantage will
allow the character to avoid use of any particular Advantage at any given
time, so this duplicates an effect achievable in another manner.
>-Making the attack normal or stun only
Variable Limitation will allow this for any Normal Attack except EB: as
needed, swap out "STUN Only, -1/2" for any other -1/2 Limitation.
>-Varying the DEF and BOD of an Entangle attack
>-Varying the senses affected by a Darkness or Images power
Too many different kinds of things, especially given the implication that
the list could be much longer. Makes the Advantage kind of broad and
difficult to nail down, and thus something I wouldn't enjoy seeing,
especially with the frequency that a mere +1/4 would encourage. Half the
Powers in the campaign would take this Advantage as a matter of course,
because it's a cheap way to do several different things by bypassing the
normal rules for "must always use Advantages".
Further, it's more flexible than the existing Variable Advantage (yeah, I
see that you can't add things, only make adjustments within the Power, but
it allows for a wider range of manipulations in that it also allows for the
selective application of de facto Limitations), and is cheaper. Other
modifiers that allow for "single option/related group/anything you want"
use much more sharply stepped cost increases than a +1/4 would correspond to.
>This cannot be used to represent any effect that another power or advantage
>already does, it simply allows simple variation with the power. The GM
>must keep a close watch on the power, as it often can be better represented
>with a Multipower, and has great potential for abuse.
I have to agree with you there. I really don't think a magnifying glass is
sufficient, or that +1/4 is high enough, but my main problem with it is
that is appears to allow so many different things that it'd be hard to
codify. It allows the selective use of Advantages, "Adders", de facto
Limitations, and overrides the restrictions inherent in many Power
descriptions to permit things they were not designed to allow, such as the
free shifting of points in an Entangle or a Force Field.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 1999 22:30:04 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Partial Use of Powers
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* Juan Antonio Ramirez <tonio@prtc.net> on Fri, 25 Jun 1999
| I believe you refer to the distributive property:
Yeah, whatever. :)
Neither mathematician nor engineer (anymore) I be.
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE3dDssgl+vIlSVSNkRAvHqAJ4pyhDuI9vV18e17EUIfH7qVGJr9wCg6Dqj
nBQPH0ZGfTOdmI2B2jsEL4A=
=rWuJ
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ head.
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 1999 22:37:00 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Variable powers
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net> on Fri, 25 Jun 1999
| As you noted above (though you didn't like it) Variable Advantage will
| allow the character to avoid use of any particular Advantage at any given
| time, so this duplicates an effect achievable in another manner.
No, using Variable Advantage is a mechanically valid method of doing it.
Thing is, if you have VA on a +1 Advantage, you still have to spend the END
for a +1 Advantage even if you are not using it (I do not figure the
Variable Advantage cost as increasing the DCs of the power). That is, a
6D6 EB with with a +1 Variable Advantage costs 6 END to use (12DCs) even if
you set the Advantage to nothing.
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE3dDzMgl+vIlSVSNkRAqsVAKCRqn5Y6k+VOaIgr5CBWCxJKZqwXgCgjl9a
d3hgymxwVakh4FpLt1ut43c=
=4jj9
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:56:47 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Variable powers
At 10:37 PM 6/25/1999 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>* "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net> on Fri, 25 Jun
1999
>| As you noted above (though you didn't like it) Variable Advantage will
>| allow the character to avoid use of any particular Advantage at any given
>| time, so this duplicates an effect achievable in another manner.
>
>No, using Variable Advantage is a mechanically valid method of doing it.
>Thing is, if you have VA on a +1 Advantage, you still have to spend the END
>for a +1 Advantage even if you are not using it (I do not figure the
>Variable Advantage cost as increasing the DCs of the power). That is, a
>6D6 EB with with a +1 Variable Advantage costs 6 END to use (12DCs) even if
>you set the Advantage to nothing.
I might have missed it, but I don't think we were told *why* the character
wanted to shut down the Advantage. If that desire has nothing to do with
the on-the-spot END cost (because the Power was built through a Focus, uses
Charges, or the character just has plenty of END/REC to cover it), then
Variable Advantage should serve nicely.
But suppose the character isn't really concerned one way or the other about
the Armor Piercing effects; he just needs to be able to scale his Power
back in order to reduce the END expenditure and thereby squeeze off
one...more...shot before END drops to nothing. In this case, it's true VA
won't help. However, the character does have the option of using STUN as
END (BBB p168) in order to accomplish this parting shot, so again the
existing rules provide an option, and I don't think "Variable Effect" is
needed.
Is there some reasonably likely situation I'm overlooking, where it's
important /both/ that the Advantage be negated /and/ the END cost be cut
back at the same time -- important, not merely convenient -- /and/ given
the concept it would make no sense for the character to have just bought
the Power twice (with and without Advantage)?
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:20:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Variable powers
On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
> Is there some reasonably likely situation I'm overlooking, where it's
> important /both/ that the Advantage be negated /and/ the END cost be cut
> back at the same time -- important, not merely convenient -- /and/ given
> the concept it would make no sense for the character to have just bought
> the Power twice (with and without Advantage)?
> Damon
I like to think of Unadvantaged shots to be useful vs. normal
"thugs", "mooks", or "popcorn enemies," and I often include them in
Projector's Multipower Slots. The difference comes in when you're
planning on firing alot of shots, even if theyre are very few of *them*,
but only one of you.
Always good to conserve, especially with other more potent powers
you need to use in case a major enemy should show on the scene...
Of note...
One Advantage that never adds to the END Cost of a power that can
be set a default slot: Autofire.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:24:24 EDT
From: GoldRushG@aol.com
Subject: Ofcr. Natalie Kelley, SAPD Mounted Detail
Here's one of the NPCs I've written up for Denizens of San Angelo.=20
Submitted for your approval. ;)
Mark @ GRG
Officer Natalie Kelley
Mounted Detail
STR 10=09DEX 13=09CON 13=09BODY 10=09INT 11
EGO 15=09PRE 12=09COM 14=09PD 2=09ED 3
SPD 3=09REC 5=09END 28=09STUN 24
Powers and Skills: Bureaucratics 12-, Combat Driving 11-, Conversation 11-,=20
CS: +2 w/Pistol, AK: Downtown 13-, CK: San Angelo 11-, KS: Law 8-, Paramedic=20
11-, PS: Police Officer 11-, PS: Ranch Hand 11-, Riding Tricks 13-,=20
Streetwise 11-, TF: Horses, WF: Small Arms
Disadvantages: Dist. Feat: Slight Oklahoma Accent (Conc, Always), Watched by=20
SAPD 8-, Psych: Duty to co-workers (Com, Str), Psych: Loves children (Com,=20
Str), Psych: Trying to prove herself (Com, Mod), Reputation: Hot-shot rookie=20
8-, Rivalry w/other female officers (Prof)
Notes: Natalie grew up in the open air of rural Oklahoma on her uncle=92s ra=
nch=20
with her five cousins. Her uncle raised her after her parents divorced and=20
Natalie could no longer tolerate living with either one. Most afternoons she=20
could be found riding one of her horse or cleaning or feeding them. Natalie=20
has always been fiercely independent and struggles with what she considers=20
her parents=92 abandonment of her.
After several years of college and several different majors, she graduated=20
with a degree in Administration of Justice and applied to the San Angelo=20
Police Department, deciding to make the delta region of the Golden City her=20
home. She was accepted and after a 6-month-long academy she went to the=20
patrol division. Barely six months into her year-long probation she put in a=20
letter for the Mounted Detail. Her enthusiasm and skill impressed her=20
supervisor and the detail=92s commander, who granted a waiver of the normal=20
requirement for 1 year of patrol experience.
Natalie has been assigned to the Mounted Detail for eight months now and=20
loves every minute of it. While passed her probation and a full-time=20
"permanent" officer with the department now, her coworkers still call her=20
"rookie" Natalie has worked hard to be accepted by her peers and is=20
frustrated by female officer who don=92t "pull their weight" and try to "get =
by=20
on their looks, or their backs." Natalie is always willing to go one step=20
farther than other female officers in an attempt to "prove" herself.
Natalie=92s horse, Twilight, is a popular fixture of the Downtown area.=20
Whenever and wherever Natalie and her equestrian partner are standing, there=20
is sure to be a cluster of children petting Twilight or just giggling and=20
pointing at him. Natalie loves children and will always take a moment to tal=
k=20
with the children if at all possible.
Natalie is 5=926" tall, thin with shoulder length auburn hair and blue eyes.=20
When in uniform she ties her hair up in back and wears the standard SAPD nav=
y=20
blue uniform, with knee-high riding boots pulled over her pants and an=20
open-faced helmet. Off-duty she prefers denim jeans and tee-shirts to dresse=
s=20
and heels, but she=92s been known to dress up from time to time for special=20
occasions.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:13:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: The Ultimate Boxer
I'm working on a number of 100 point + 150 point maximum disadvantage 250
point total characters. The majority of the characters will not have
powers unto themselves. The characters will have many of their abilities
supplied by simple close to real technology gadgets and special training.
One of the characters I am currently working on, tentatively named
"the Shadow Boxer" is a world-class athlete and an excellent fighter over
all. He can (you guessed it folks) box.
In constructing the good mister SB, I ran into a number of
problems.
First off, I wanted to give him an "ultra black bodysuit,"
which is merely a full body suit (except for eyes and lips/chin). It
should help him blend in with shadows. I was thinking of working this
with Images, but I am at a loss figuring out what Limitations I should
give the suit (OIF, Only in shadows/darkness, Set Effect: Images
represents he ability to blend with surrounding shadows).
Next, his Characteristics. I wanted to give him "limited"
statistics to represent "special training." Limited Dexterity for
"Lightning Reflexes," Limited Presesnce for PRE Defense... However, I
wanted to give him limited constitution for protection versus being
CON-Stunned and limited EGO for the same purpose (and also, perhaps, for
Pushing). I'm not suite sure how to limit these properly, but a minimum
ammount of -1/2 (which would be the same as Does Not Effect Figured
Characteristics) would be appropiate as a minimum to work from for the
Constitution.
His Running is going to be at maxium human levels (10"), and his
SPD will approximately fall around 5 or 6. I'm wondering if this would
make him unrealistically quick in combat situations.
Last, his punching. I'm trying to inquire about my close circle
of friends to find out what the fastest repetive punch has ever been. If
possible, I would like to make him just under or on par with that figure.
To simulate this, I would like to buy his STR with Autofire, and limit it
to either "one-two" punches (Requires Seperate OCV levels and Rolls
(-1/4)), or "rapid fire" punches (Can Not Spread).
I am unsure how to work additional Damage from Martial Arts, or
Martial Arts in general when coupled with autofire.
Final Note: If anyone has any suggestions for this character,
they would be greatly appreciated.
- -Jason
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:24:16 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <christopherrt@home.net>
Subject: RE: Variable powers
>>VARIABLE EFFECT: This advantage allows powers to be used more flexibly than
>>normally possible. Energy blast with this may be used as stun only or
>>normal; an area effect attack with this may be used as a normal blast or as
>>the area effect, and so forth. A very partial list of examples would be:
>>
>>-Using a power with an advantage, such as Area Effect, with or without the
>>advantage
>
>As you noted above (though you didn't like it) Variable Advantage will
>allow the character to avoid use of any particular Advantage at any given
>time, so this duplicates an effect achievable in another manner.
No I liked that fine, it was a good construct, it just would not allow you
to use a power with or without it's advantage (for example I buy Energy
Blast with Explosion, and wish to use it with NO advantages, not explosion,
nothing. The construct you suggested would not allow me to do so, I would
have to pick an advantage, and pay +1 1/2 for the privalege).
>>-Making the attack normal or stun only
>
>Variable Limitation will allow this for any Normal Attack except EB: as
>needed, swap out "STUN Only, -1/2" for any other -1/2 Limitation.
Again, you must use SOME limitation rather than none. This would allow you
to use it normally or stun only as desired, not stun only or x2 END or Side
effect or some odd other limitation.
>>-Varying the DEF and BOD of an Entangle attack
>>-Varying the senses affected by a Darkness or Images power
>
>Too many different kinds of things, especially given the implication that
>the list could be much longer. Makes the Advantage kind of broad and
>difficult to nail down, and thus something I wouldn't enjoy seeing,
>especially with the frequency that a mere +1/4 would encourage. Half the
>Powers in the campaign would take this Advantage as a matter of course,
>because it's a cheap way to do several different things by bypassing the
>normal rules for "must always use Advantages".
Well, the thing is first off, it doesn't give you any more power, in fact
all the uses of it make it LESS powerful. You have already purchased the
power AND the advantage, this simply lets you use the power within what is
already purchased. I pay for Darkness vs sight and hearing, and with this
I can use it against both or either as I choose, but for a price.
>Further, it's more flexible than the existing Variable Advantage (yeah, I
>see that you can't add things, only make adjustments within the Power, but
>it allows for a wider range of manipulations in that it also allows for the
>selective application of de facto Limitations), and is cheaper. Other
>modifiers that allow for "single option/related group/anything you want"
>use much more sharply stepped cost increases than a +1/4 would correspond
to.
Flexibility is useful but I find it hard to believe it would be worth more
than a +1/4 simply because of what I said above, it really never lets you
use your power in any way that is more powerful. Even Variable Special
effect lets you target vulnerabilities, etc, this really only lets you use
your powers at a lower power level. As such I would strongly object to it
costing more than this, why pay 1/2 to make my powers do less? Flexibility
is nice, but not THAT nice. The only real problem I see is it would
require a big, big list to explain what could be used, to avoid people
getting more than the power is supposed to do.
>>This cannot be used to represent any effect that another power or advantage
>>already does, it simply allows simple variation with the power. The GM
>>must keep a close watch on the power, as it often can be better represented
>>with a Multipower, and has great potential for abuse.
>
>I have to agree with you there. I really don't think a magnifying glass is
>sufficient, or that +1/4 is high enough, but my main problem with it is
>that is appears to allow so many different things that it'd be hard to
>codify. It allows the selective use of Advantages, "Adders", de facto
>Limitations, and overrides the restrictions inherent in many Power
>descriptions to permit things they were not designed to allow, such as the
>free shifting of points in an Entangle or a Force Field.
Actually it isn't free, you get 1/6th less of the power because of this (I
bought a 12D6 energy blast or I can buy a 10D6 Energy Blast and be able to
use it stun only when I want).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:25:35 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <christopherrt@home.net>
Subject: Re: Variable powers
>| As you noted above (though you didn't like it) Variable Advantage will
>| allow the character to avoid use of any particular Advantage at any given
>| time, so this duplicates an effect achievable in another manner.
>
>No, using Variable Advantage is a mechanically valid method of doing it.
>Thing is, if you have VA on a +1 Advantage, you still have to spend the END
>for a +1 Advantage even if you are not using it (I do not figure the
>Variable Advantage cost as increasing the DCs of the power). That is, a
>6D6 EB with with a +1 Variable Advantage costs 6 END to use (12DCs) even if
>you set the Advantage to nothing.
How can you set the advantage to nothing? Since you have to use advantages
at full level whenever you use them, how would it be possible to use it to
get NOTHING?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:28:56 -0400
From: "Scott A. Colcord" <sacolcor@ic.net>
Subject: RE: Variable powers
> -----Original Message-----
> At 04:18 PM 6/25/1999 -0700, Christopher Taylor wrote:
> >VARIABLE EFFECT: This advantage allows powers to be used more flexibly
than
> >normally possible. Energy blast with this may be used as stun only or
> >normal; an area effect attack with this may be used as a normal blast or
as
> >the area effect, and so forth. A very partial list of examples would be:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >This cannot be used to represent any effect that another power or
advantage
> >already does, it simply allows simple variation with the power. The GM
> >must keep a close watch on the power, as it often can be better
represented
> >with a Multipower, and has great potential for abuse.
>
> I have to agree with you there. I really don't think a magnifying glass
is
> sufficient, or that +1/4 is high enough, but my main problem with it is
> that is appears to allow so many different things that it'd be hard to
> codify. It allows the selective use of Advantages, "Adders", de facto
> Limitations, and overrides the restrictions inherent in many Power
> descriptions to permit things they were not designed to allow, such as the
> free shifting of points in an Entangle or a Force Field.
>
> Damon
I'd agree that this seems a bit too unspecified to be appealing, but I
think I'd be willing to allow a (+1/4) advantage on top of any other
advantage only to make that advantage optional at the time of use. To be
'legal', you might have to buy the full VA (+1), and then put a limitation
on it (limiting the choices to X and Difficult to Dispel (The advantage
with the least noticeable effect, IMHO), if you /really/ want to be purist),
but I don't see the need to impose that much active point overhead on the
power for such a minor advantage.
----Scott
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #429
*****************************
Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 04:18 PM