Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 430
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 1999 9:10 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #430
champ-l-digest Sunday, June 27 1999 Volume 01 : Number 430
In this issue:
RE: Variable powers
Re: No Fringe Debate (New terms proposed)
Re: Variable powers
Re: Variable powers
RE: Variable powers
Re: Variable powers
Re: 100 pts.
Re: No Fringe Debate (New terms proposed)
Proposal for New Advantage: Conceptual
Modifying Powers: Conditional Time Duration
Re: 100 pts
Re: Deconstruction Blues (PC Robots)
Re: Modifying Powers: Conditional Time Duration
Re: The Ultimate Boxer
Re: Modifying Powers: Conditional Time Duration
Re: Modifying Powers: Conditional Time Duration
Re: Modifying Powers: Conditional Time Duration
Re: Modifying Powers: Conditional Time Duration
Re: The Ultimate Boxer
Re: The Ultimate Boxer
Re: The Ultimate Boxer
Re: The Ultimate Boxer
Re: The Ultimate Boxer
Help Wanted
RE: 100 pts.
Re: Variable powers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 00:01:57 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: RE: Variable powers
At 09:24 PM 6/25/1999 -0700, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>No I liked that fine, it was a good construct, it just would not allow you
>to use a power with or without it's advantage (for example I buy Energy
>Blast with Explosion, and wish to use it with NO advantages, not explosion,
>nothing. The construct you suggested would not allow me to do so, I would
>have to pick an advantage, and pay +1 1/2 for the privalege).
There are rules in place to allow you to get pretty much any result you
want (perhaps not for the price you'd like) but in some cases, which of the
existing options makes sense depends on *why* you want to do something;
what do you want to accomplish?
"I want to buy the Power once, with an Advantage, and use the Advantage as
a case by case option, not as a fixed requirement."
Sorry, the rules prohibit that and are pretty clear about it.
"But that's not reasonable. I just want to be able to use the Power with
the Advantage sometimes and without it at other times."
Okay, buy two versions. Put them in a Multipower. Cost for two versions
of a 12d6 EB should be 120 points before any Limitations are applied [see
below]. Buying a 12d6 EB with Armor Piercing would normally have cost you
90 points (or 105 points if you tacked on "Variable Effect, +1/4").
Functionally, these two options are the same, except that the "legal"
version is 15-30 points more expensive. New options should be created when
existing ones will not do the job, not when the existing ones seem too
expensive. That way lies the disruption of game balance, as some options
become cheaper than they should be.
Multipower, 90 pt reserve
18 12d6 EB w/Armor Piercing
12 12d6 EB
Damon
>
>>>-Making the attack normal or stun only
>>
>>Variable Limitation will allow this for any Normal Attack except EB: as
>>needed, swap out "STUN Only, -1/2" for any other -1/2 Limitation.
>
>Again, you must use SOME limitation rather than none. This would allow you
>to use it normally or stun only as desired, not stun only or x2 END or Side
>effect or some odd other limitation.
>
>>>-Varying the DEF and BOD of an Entangle attack
>>>-Varying the senses affected by a Darkness or Images power
>>
>>Too many different kinds of things, especially given the implication that
>>the list could be much longer. Makes the Advantage kind of broad and
>
>>difficult to nail down, and thus something I wouldn't enjoy seeing,
>>especially with the frequency that a mere +1/4 would encourage. Half the
>>Powers in the campaign would take this Advantage as a matter of course,
>>because it's a cheap way to do several different things by bypassing the
>>normal rules for "must always use Advantages".
>
>Well, the thing is first off, it doesn't give you any more power, in fact
>all the uses of it make it LESS powerful. You have already purchased the
>power AND the advantage, this simply lets you use the power within what is
>already purchased. I pay for Darkness vs sight and hearing, and with this
>I can use it against both or either as I choose, but for a price.
>
>>Further, it's more flexible than the existing Variable Advantage (yeah, I
>>see that you can't add things, only make adjustments within the Power, but
>>it allows for a wider range of manipulations in that it also allows for the
>>selective application of de facto Limitations), and is cheaper. Other
>>modifiers that allow for "single option/related group/anything you want"
>>use much more sharply stepped cost increases than a +1/4 would correspond
>to.
>
>Flexibility is useful but I find it hard to believe it would be worth more
>than a +1/4 simply because of what I said above, it really never lets you
>use your power in any way that is more powerful. Even Variable Special
>effect lets you target vulnerabilities, etc, this really only lets you use
>your powers at a lower power level. As such I would strongly object to it
>costing more than this, why pay 1/2 to make my powers do less? Flexibility
>is nice, but not THAT nice. The only real problem I see is it would
>require a big, big list to explain what could be used, to avoid people
>getting more than the power is supposed to do.
>
>>>This cannot be used to represent any effect that another power or advantage
>>>already does, it simply allows simple variation with the power. The GM
>>>must keep a close watch on the power, as it often can be better represented
>>>with a Multipower, and has great potential for abuse.
>>
>>I have to agree with you there. I really don't think a magnifying glass is
>>sufficient, or that +1/4 is high enough, but my main problem with it is
>>that is appears to allow so many different things that it'd be hard to
>>codify. It allows the selective use of Advantages, "Adders", de facto
>>Limitations, and overrides the restrictions inherent in many Power
>>descriptions to permit things they were not designed to allow, such as the
>>free shifting of points in an Entangle or a Force Field.
>
>Actually it isn't free, you get 1/6th less of the power because of this (I
>bought a 12D6 energy blast or I can buy a 10D6 Energy Blast and be able to
>use it stun only when I want).
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 01:09:07 -0500
From: "Bobby Farris Jr." <BJ@redbow.net>
Subject: Re: No Fringe Debate (New terms proposed)
"Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" wrote:
> At 04:09 PM 6/25/1999 -0400, David Nasset wrote:
> >What if you want no Advantage at all? Given the present rules, the Power
> >couldn't do this.
>
> Given the present rules, you can do this. You just have to buy the Power
> twice; once with and once without the Advantage.
> "The rules don't provide a way to do this" is not the same thing as "the
> rules don't provide a way to do this that makes sense to me."
> Damon
What if you gave the power an advantage that really couldn't be useful? For
example if you have an Energy Blast that you normally keep Armor Piercing and
for some reason you don't want Armor Piercing and you don't want any other
advantages why not give it an advantage like Affects Desolidification. This
way you supply the advantage for the Variable advantage and don't have any
real useful advantage, unless of course you are trying to attack someone that
is desolid.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 01:21:38 -0500
From: "Bobby Farris Jr." <BJ@redbow.net>
Subject: Re: Variable powers
Christopher Taylor wrote:
> >>I guess, you could make a house rule that you could change your effects the
> >>way you have said above. However what do you do for the character that has
> >>bought that Armor Piercing Energy Blast and can't turn off the Armor
> >Piercing?
> >>Now you have to make up a Limitation for him.
> >
> >No house rule is needed for this, nor does it require a new Limitation be
> >invented. If you want to be able to "turn off" Armor Piercing, all you
> >have to do is apply Variable Advantage when you buy the Power; then when
> >you don't want an Armor Piercing attack, switch to another Advantage of the
> >same value: Autofire, Explosion, Increased STUN Multiplier (if it's a
> >Killing Attack), Penetrating, Ranged...any of these might be appropriate
> >depending on the what the base Power is, and the SFX of the Power.
>
> Yeah but what if you don't want to use ANY advantages? The alternative is
> to buy every power with an advantage on it in a Multipower with two slots
> (with advantage, without advantage). While this works and is technically
> according to the rules, it is awfully odd, and would be better served, I
> believe, with an advantage:
>
> VARIABLE EFFECT: This advantage allows powers to be used more flexibly than
> normally possible. Energy blast with this may be used as stun only or
> normal; an area effect attack with this may be used as a normal blast or as
> the area effect, and so forth. A very partial list of examples would be:
>
> -Changing the PD or ED level of a defense power such as Force Field without
> changing the other defense
> -Using a power with an advantage, such as Area Effect, with or without the
> advantage
> -Varying the size of an Area Effect such as Radius or Ring to smaller than
> its full area covered
> -Making the attack normal or stun only
> -Varying the DEF and BOD of an Entangle attack
> -Varying the senses affected by a Darkness or Images power
>
> This cannot be used to represent any effect that another power or advantage
> already does, it simply allows simple variation with the power. The GM
> must keep a close watch on the power, as it often can be better represented
> with a Multipower, and has great potential for abuse. Consider this to
> have a magnifying glass next to it.
> +1/4 advantage.
They have already done exactly what you want and with the rules. It is called a
Variable Power Pool.
Why can't I have a +1/4 advantage that lets me change the power? Because it is
unbalancing. Imagine a character that could spend just a couple of points for
Darkness and yet stop EVERY sense. Or what about the character that could change
the BODY and DEF of an Entanglement. Seems like a small power. However no matter
who you run into you will stop.
"Oh, he is Super Strong! Well, I will just give it a very high DEF!"
As I said there is a way to do this with the Hero rules as written: Variable
Power Pool.
Would you let a character decide not to count sixes as body in his Energy Blast
because he thought he might kill an agent?
This is to much tinkering with the rules for my blood.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 01:37:52 -0500
From: "Bobby Farris Jr." <BJ@redbow.net>
Subject: Re: Variable powers
Christopher Taylor wrote:
No I liked that fine, it was a good construct, it just would not allow you
> to use a power with or without it's advantage (for example I buy Energy
> Blast with Explosion, and wish to use it with NO advantages, not explosion,
> nothing. The construct you suggested would not allow me to do so, I would
> have to pick an advantage, and pay +1 1/2 for the privalege).
Ahh, you have said it yourself you purchased Energy Blast with Explosion. If you
didn't an explosive energy blast you should have just purchased energy blast. Why
is there a difference? Think if it this way. I buy a grenade. How do I turn off
the explosion part? It is an integral part of the Grenade. Note: See Variable
Power Pool
>
>
> Well, the thing is first off, it doesn't give you any more power, in fact
> all the uses of it make it LESS powerful. You have already purchased the
> power AND the advantage, this simply lets you use the power within what is
> already purchased. I pay for Darkness vs sight and hearing, and with this
> I can use it against both or either as I choose, but for a price.
That is not the way you have described you advantage. The way I understood it for
+1/4 I would have Darkness versus a sense of my choice whether it be Sight,
hearing, infrared or the green googly moster senses. This is why I do not like
your advantage it makes powers such as Darkness WAY to powerful. If you want all
that use a Multipower or a Variable Power pool as the rules suggest.
> Flexibility is useful but I find it hard to believe it would be worth more
> than a +1/4 simply because of what I said above, it really never lets you
> use your power in any way that is more powerful. Even Variable Special
> effect lets you target vulnerabilities, etc, this really only lets you use
> your powers at a lower power level.
Okay, first thing you can Always use powers at a lower level. For example if I
have a 6d6 armor piercing EB I could only shoot a 3d6 armor piercing Eb. What you
can't do is come up with a hole new power that doesn't have the armor piercing.
Also you are wrong your simple advantage DOES make powers more powerful. For
example. Lets say I have the Darkness with your +1/4 advantage. Now, now matter
who I run into in no matter what situation I can make them blind by just changing
the sense the power effects.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:38:46 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <christopherrt@home.net>
Subject: RE: Variable powers
>There are rules in place to allow you to get pretty much any result you
>want (perhaps not for the price you'd like) but in some cases, which of the
>existing options makes sense depends on *why* you want to do something;
>what do you want to accomplish?
Yeah but sometimes it doesn't hurt to modify or add things because the
rules make it more dificult or complex to do what you want, and this is
something that does come up in comic books enough to warrant a specific
rule rather than using other structures.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 23:48:52 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <christopherrt@home.net>
Subject: Re: Variable powers
>> VARIABLE EFFECT: This advantage allows powers to be used more flexibly than
>> normally possible. Energy blast with this may be used as stun only or
>> normal; an area effect attack with this may be used as a normal blast or as
>> the area effect, and so forth. A very partial list of examples would be:
>They have already done exactly what you want and with the rules. It is
called a
>Variable Power Pool.
Sort of, Multipower is a lot closer to what you mean though. This allows
you to make a power WEAKER not into a different one.
>Why can't I have a +1/4 advantage that lets me change the power? Because
it is
>unbalancing. Imagine a character that could spend just a couple of points for
>Darkness and yet stop EVERY sense. Or what about the character that could
change
You grossly misunderstand how the advantage works here. The Variable
Effect would not let you ADD things to your power. Only adjust what you
already have. If you buy Darkness vs Sight and Sound, for example, it
would allow you to use the dark vs sight or sound or both, not add other
senses in ANY sense of the word. It only lets you adjust the power you
bought lower, use it in parts of what you have not add parts or increase it.
>the BODY and DEF of an Entanglement. Seems like a small power. However no
matter
>who you run into you will stop.
Again you misunderstand, you cannot increase the power, only lower parts of
it. With Entangle you could lower your DEF to be 1 not increase anything.
It can only be as high as you bought it (say, 4 DEF, 4D6, you could lower
the DEF to 1 or 2 or 3, but this would NOT allow you to increase the D6
proportionally, the most any can be is 4 in this case).
>Would you let a character decide not to count sixes as body in his Energy
Blast
>because he thought he might kill an agent?
Sort of, you can always lower your dice if you are worried about that.
This would allow a character to use his blast stun only if he wanted, but
you PAY for the privalege, a +1/4 advantage.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 01:49:39 -0700
From: Eric Chaves <rambler@sowest.net>
Subject: Re: 100 pts.
>On Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:47:00 -0400, David Nasset wrote:
>
>>A couple of times, people have asked what you would get yourself if some
>>alien or genie gave you 10 or 15 pts. I think this is pretty chincy.
>>
>>The God of People Who Need to Get a Life has just given you 100 pts.
>>What do you purchase?
>
Here's what I'd do:
Filthy Rich - 15pts.
Lightning Calculator - 3pts. (Would make writing up characters easier)
Speed Reading - 3pts.
Eidict Memory -3pts.
+9 Int (to 20pts) - 9pts.
Computer Programming at 18- 13pt
Cryptography -3pts
+4 Com (to 14) -4pts
Inventor -3pts
Electronics -3pts
System Operations -3pts
Combat Driving -3pts (to help get through rush hour traffic)
Seduction -3pts
10d6 Telepathy - only vs. Computers and Automations (-1/2) 33pts.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 07:05:06 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: No Fringe Debate (New terms proposed)
At 01:09 AM 6/26/1999 -0500, Bobby Farris Jr. wrote:
>
>What if you gave the power an advantage that really couldn't be useful?
Well, that would be kind of a silly thing to do, wouldn't it? Especially
given the number of useful Advantages to choose from.
>example if you have an Energy Blast that you normally keep Armor Piercing and
>for some reason you don't want Armor Piercing and you don't want any other
>advantages why not give it an advantage like Affects Desolidification. This
>way you supply the advantage for the Variable advantage and don't have any
>real useful advantage, unless of course you are trying to attack someone that
>is desolid.
While there is nothing illegal about this, it seems a shame to waste points
that way. Why wouldn't a character want to choose a second useful
Advantage, since he's going to have to pay points for it anyway?
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:58:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Proposal for New Advantage: Conceptual
CONCEPTUAL [STOP]
This Advantage is, in many ways, similar to Transdimensional.
This Advantage allows the character to use a Power to affect certain
conceptual notions. Although normally applied to Clairsentience or
Adjustment powers, Conceptual can be used with any power (with in reason)
that is indirect or has purchased the Advantage Indirect to the +1/2 or
+3/4 level. Unlike Transdimensional, this Advantage does involve
geographical distance. Since the target of the Conceptual power exists
only within the realm of concept and thought, the powers that are not
"Conceptual" must purchase Based on Ego Combat Value. The character must
be able to sense the "concept" in question in order to affect it. The
"ECV" is determined by the GM. Often times, the best defense against a
Conceptual power is having the "concept" in question be undetectable,
wither through the Advantage Invisible or (if detected) Skill Rolls.
For +1 (in addition to the cost of the Indirect and BOECV), the
character can use the Power on any one aspect of a concept. For +1 1/2
additional Advantage, the character can use the Power on any group of
related concepts.
Example: The Big Boss has a 3d6 Wealth Drain with the Power Advantage
Conceptual, which represents his ability to manipulate other people's
finances.
Conceptual is an extremely potent Advantage. GM's should regulate
its use very carefully. In addition, certain campaigns might find powers
that would be considered Conceptual not extremely useful, especially in
campaigns (Four Color comes to mind) where concepts and forces have their
own Dimensions or energy manifestations ("Wealth Force," "Dream Lands,"
"Cyber Space," etc.) In these cases, Transdimensional may be more
appropriate.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 09:03:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Modifying Powers: Conditional Time Duration
How would one model an Adjustment Power with a Conditional
Duration? Conditional in the same way Transform has a Conditional
All-or-Nothing retransformation (scars being healed for a COM Drain, for
example), where an identifiable treatment resolves the Adjustment/Power.
I think this would be useful for constructing curses or effects
similar to Transform that have long lasting effects on Characteristics.
Your input would be greatly appreciated.
- -Jason
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:11:04 EDT
From: ErolB1@aol.com
Subject: Re: 100 pts
In a message dated 99-06-24 20:21:54 EDT, adunbar@iinet.net.au writes:
> Anyway, if you know what a Draka is, then you'd know how I'd spend my
> points. Although the skills would be expensive. Basically, a geneticall
> engineered supersoldier, that never ages, is smarter than God and has it's
> desire to conquer linked to it's sex drive. They have a very high libido
> and therefore an overwhelming desire to conquer. And since they don't age,
> they are patient. A Draka's knowledge alone would be worth it.
>
> Pity about the psych and phys lims they come with. Bloodthirsty, soulless,
> totally arrogant. Nice guys, if you're one of them.
Also the Hunted they come with: "Extradimensional beings who like to think of
creative ways to make them suffer and die."
There are regular threads on Usenet on what sort of extradimensional "gift"
should be dropped on them or where they should be sent when they use their
own molehole XDM. E.g. "Drop them into the Lensman Civilization and let them
see what *real* supermen are like." or "Drop some Tree-of-Life Root into
their world - with genetic modifications so that the resulting Protectors
smell Draka phermones as 'bad mutant enemy smell - must destroy'"
Erol K. Bayburt
Evil Genius for a Better Tomorrow
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:00:14 -0400
From: "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net>
Subject: Re: Deconstruction Blues (PC Robots)
>A while ago, there was a discussion about having a
>"Deconstructable Body", or a body that could be disassembled into parts
>with no ill effect to the user other than being deprived of the particular
>limb for use. If anyone recalls this post (or has a copy of it), I would
>greatly appreciate if you could forward it to me (or contact me).
If you're talkinga about someone who can still control their own limbs at a
distance, check out my character Jigsaw, at
http://www.haymaker.org/haym21l.html
Dave Mattingly
http://haymaker.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:11:37 -0400
From: "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net>
Subject: Re: Modifying Powers: Conditional Time Duration
>How would one model an Adjustment Power with a Conditional
>Duration? Conditional in the same way Transform has a Conditional
>All-or-Nothing retransformation (scars being healed for a COM Drain, for
>example), where an identifiable treatment resolves the Adjustment/Power.
How about Continuous Suppress? The Suppress would continue to keep the
power/stat below its normal level, until such time as the Continuous was
turned off by the reasonable set of circumstances required.
Dave Mattingly
http://haymaker.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:31:14 -0400
From: "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net>
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Boxer
>First off, I wanted to give him an "ultra black bodysuit,"
>... should help him blend in with shadows.
Instead of Images, I'd go with Invisibility (with a Fringe). Only in
Darkness/Shadows (-1/2), Fringe "range" is equal to distance moved (-1/2).
The second Lim is to represent that he's harder to be seen if he stays
still. When he's not moving, he can be spotted with a PER Roll from 1". If
he moves 6", he can be spotted within 6".
>limited constitution for protection versus being CON-Stunned
I'd give this an Activation Roll equal to his EGO Roll. What might work
better, though, is Damage Reduction, STUN only (-1/2), Activation = EGO
Roll, Only to Not Be Stunned (-1). Possibly add Must Be Aware of Attack
(-1/2) if it's a "bracing himself" kind of ability.
Dave Mattingly
http://haymaker.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:43:25 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <christopherrt@home.net>
Subject: Re: Modifying Powers: Conditional Time Duration
> How would one model an Adjustment Power with a Conditional
>Duration? Conditional in the same way Transform has a Conditional
>All-or-Nothing retransformation (scars being healed for a COM Drain, for
>example), where an identifiable treatment resolves the Adjustment/Power.
>
> I think this would be useful for constructing curses or effects
>similar to Transform that have long lasting effects on Characteristics.
>Your input would be greatly appreciated.
That just sounds like a transform to me, one that acts like a drain.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:44:58 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <christopherrt@home.net>
Subject: Re: Modifying Powers: Conditional Time Duration
>>How would one model an Adjustment Power with a Conditional
>>Duration? Conditional in the same way Transform has a Conditional
>>All-or-Nothing retransformation (scars being healed for a COM Drain, for
>>example), where an identifiable treatment resolves the Adjustment/Power.
>
>How about Continuous Suppress? The Suppress would continue to keep the
>power/stat below its normal level, until such time as the Continuous was
>turned off by the reasonable set of circumstances required.
You probably meant persistent there, since it already is continuous. In a
fantasy game where this probably would take place, any power like that
would take a slot up (INT/5) to maintain the spell effect and thus be a
drain. It also would adjust the magic roll in most systems.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 12:07:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Modifying Powers: Conditional Time Duration
On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, Dave Mattingly wrote:
> >How would one model an Adjustment Power with a Conditional
> >Duration? Conditional in the same way Transform has a Conditional
> >All-or-Nothing retransformation (scars being healed for a COM Drain, for
> >example), where an identifiable treatment resolves the Adjustment/Power.
>
> How about Continuous Suppress? The Suppress would continue to keep the
> power/stat below its normal level, until such time as the Continuous was
> turned off by the reasonable set of circumstances required.
A Continous, 0 END, Persistant, Uncontrolled Supress...
I have two concearns about this construct:
a) Wouldn't the Supress continue to work, but at varying levels?
b) Isn't Supress vs. a Characteristic a not-well accepted power
construct?
Other than that, it works.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 14:13:05 -0400
From: "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net>
Subject: Re: Modifying Powers: Conditional Time Duration
>a) Wouldn't the Supress continue to work, but at varying levels?
I'd handwave it as a set effect for a -0 Lim. Whatever you roll on the first
roll is what you always get.
>b) Isn't Supress vs. a Characteristic a not-well accepted power
>construct?
Not as far as I'm concerned. I think it's a great way to represent many
effects.
Dave Mattingly
http://haymaker.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 15:24:58 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Boxer
At 12:13 AM 6/26/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
> I'm working on a number of 100 point + 150 point maximum disadvantage 250
>point total characters. The majority of the characters will not have
>powers unto themselves. The characters will have many of their abilities
>supplied by simple close to real technology gadgets and special training.
>
> One of the characters I am currently working on, tentatively named
>"the Shadow Boxer" is a world-class athlete and an excellent fighter over
>all. He can (you guessed it folks) box.
>
> In constructing the good mister SB, I ran into a number of
>problems.
> First off, I wanted to give him an "ultra black bodysuit,"
>which is merely a full body suit (except for eyes and lips/chin). It
>should help him blend in with shadows. I was thinking of working this
>with Images, but I am at a loss figuring out what Limitations I should
>give the suit (OIF, Only in shadows/darkness, Set Effect: Images
>represents he ability to blend with surrounding shadows).
>
I'd call this Invisability, OIF, Only in shadows/darkness.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 15:48:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Boxer
On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, geoff heald wrote:
> At 12:13 AM 6/26/99 -0400, you wrote:
> I'd call this Invisability, OIF, Only in shadows/darkness.
They're just black clothes. I don't want to make it overly
powerful, either... Invisibility does have a Fringe that can be seen
though with PER... I wonder if there could be a way to "scale" it to the
ammount of darkness present?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 13:26:50 -0700
From: "Ron Abitz" <abitz@richpoor.com>
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Boxer
- ----------
> From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
> On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, geoff heald wrote:
> > At 12:13 AM 6/26/99 -0400, you wrote:
> > I'd call this Invisability, OIF, Only in shadows/darkness.
>
> They're just black clothes. I don't want to make it overly
> powerful, either... Invisibility does have a Fringe that can be seen
> though with PER... I wonder if there could be a way to "scale" it to the
> ammount of darkness present?
How about buying it as stealth skill levels oif?
Ron Abitz
abitz@richpoor.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 16:06:38 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Boxer
At 03:48 PM 6/26/99 -0400, you wrote:
>On Sat, 26 Jun 1999, geoff heald wrote:
>> At 12:13 AM 6/26/99 -0400, you wrote:
>> I'd call this Invisability, OIF, Only in shadows/darkness.
>
> They're just black clothes. I don't want to make it overly
>powerful, either... Invisibility does have a Fringe that can be seen
>though with PER... I wonder if there could be a way to "scale" it to the
>ammount of darkness present?
>
Well, this is the construct I've seen used for Nightcrawler, who's just
covered with indigo fur.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 13:34:52 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <christopherrt@home.net>
Subject: Re: The Ultimate Boxer
>> > I'd call this Invisibility, OIF, Only in shadows/darkness.
>>
>> They're just black clothes. I don't want to make it overly
>> powerful, either... Invisibility does have a Fringe that can be seen
>> though with PER... I wonder if there could be a way to "scale" it to the
>> ammount of darkness present?
>
>How about buying it as stealth skill levels oif?
I still like the Images not there trick:
Images (senses affected, not UV or IR probably), PER modifier; Self Only
(-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Single effect (-1), 0 END (+1/2)
Ends up pretty cheap, makes a nice camoflauge/hide in shadows effect,
people can see you if they are really perceptive. You aren't invisible,
just difficult to see.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:21:53 EDT
From: Sbennie@aol.com
Subject: Help Wanted
I'm trying to get a Hero Plus product (Gestalt) finished some time soon, but
I'm finding myself pressed for time with a pair of other projects, and I've
come to the conclusion that if I'm not going to have a lot of time to
complete it in the near future given my current schedule. So I'm sending out
a cry for help.
I have stats for about fifty characters. I need to have them inputed into
Hero Creator format, then have their point totals proofed, and then converted
into Fuzion for use as Creation Workshop files..
There'll be a bit of money and book credit in it for anyone who is willing to
do it. The person should be familiar with Hero system, Hero Creator, and
Fuzion, and be willing to do a lot of work in a short time, and be able to
start in the next week.
Thanks,
Scott Bennie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 18:17:58 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: 100 pts.
David Nasset wrote:
> You are assuming skills like Persuasion, Oratory, and
> Seduction, without
> purchasing them. Without them, you don't sound any more persuasive,
> friendly, or convincing than other people; you are just awesome.
and. . .
> Not if you didn't buy Persuasion. Then you get only an 8-, no
> matter what your PRE.
and. . .
> The problem is, you assumed you _already have_ the PRE-based Skills to
take
> advantage of your awesome PRE, and I see no reason to assume this. You
might
> have such skills, but are you certain you have more than an 8-? And are
you certain the
> original poster did, as well? If you are wrong, then unless
> you purchase the skills to get the people to like you, you are really just
an
> incredibly awesome and intimidating person, with no way to control
> whether people like you or fear you. And those who fear you will fear you
a great deal.
This came up in a game I recently joined. My character has 23 PRE (30 to
attack) in his Hero ID, so when the press showed up after the Big Fight, he
went to talk to them. The GM told me it didn't matter how much PRE I had, I
had no skills (no Oratory or Persuasion) to deal with the press.
I thought that was a little silly--I've never played like that before. This
GM also requires Deduction rolls to figure things out and that sort of
thing.
While I'm fine with this style of play, it took a little getting used to. I
was used to the player simply playing those sorts of skills. I've never seen
a need for a PC to have Deduction or Conversation unless they want to have
some amazing ability (like Super Conversation). This comes from my opinion
that skills need to be rolled in unusual circumstances. Anything that's
normal doesn't need a skill roll. I guess I'd just extrapolated that
"normal" things like talking to people didn't require a skill.
Of course, that 110 PRE gives you one hell of a complimentary PRE Roll for
your 8- Persuasion anyway. . . . :)
grant
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 08:10:13 -0500
From: "Bobby Farris Jr." <BJ@redbow.net>
Subject: Re: Variable powers
Christopher Taylor wrote:
> >> VARIABLE EFFECT: This advantage allows powers to be used more flexibly than
> >> normally possible. Energy blast with this may be used as stun only or
> >> normal; an area effect attack with this may be used as a normal blast or as
> >> the area effect, and so forth. A very partial list of examples would be:
>
> You grossly misunderstand how the advantage works here. The Variable
> Effect would not let you ADD things to your power. Only adjust what you
> already have. If you buy Darkness vs Sight and Sound, for example, it
> would allow you to use the dark vs sight or sound or both, not add other
> senses in ANY sense of the word. It only lets you adjust the power you
> bought lower, use it in parts of what you have not add parts or increase it.
Okay, so lets do it your way and see what it look like.
I buy 5d6 Darkness vs Sight/Sound with the +1/4 advantage Variable Effect cost
comes to a 75 active point power costing 7 end.
Now lets do it per the Champions rules;
60 Darkness Multipower
Slot #1 Darkness versus Sight u-5 END: 5
Slot #2 Darkness versus Sound u-5 END: 5
Slot #3 Darkness versus Sight and Sound u-6 END: 6
So, for the cost of doing my way it takes 76 points. 1 more point then your way
and less 1 or 2 more endurance.
If I do it as a Variable power pool, which I really wouldn't want to do for so
little thing as this, it would cost me 90 points. However, as I said using a
Variable power pool for just this one power wouldn't be worth it.
Note also that the more powers I put into the Multipower the more I will save
versus your +1/4 advantage.
> Again you misunderstand, you cannot increase the power, only lower parts of
> it. With Entangle you could lower your DEF to be 1 not increase anything.
> It can only be as high as you bought it (say, 4 DEF, 4D6, you could lower
> the DEF to 1 or 2 or 3, but this would NOT allow you to increase the D6
> proportionally, the most any can be is 4 in this case).
See above explanation of Darkness Multipower.
> Sort of, you can always lower your dice if you are worried about that.
> This would allow a character to use his blast stun only if he wanted, but
> you PAY for the privalege, a +1/4 advantage.
Actually, if all you want to do is less dice of effect you can already to that per
the current Hero System rules. If you have a 6d6 Armor Piercing energy blast you
CAN choose to only throw a 2d6 energy blast it just HAS to be Armor Piercing. In
the Darkness example above if at anytime you wanted to have just a 2d6 Darkness
you can choose to do that unless you have bought the limitation, Only at Maximum
Power. This is a great way to save endurance.
You could do this for other powers as well, entangle and even Force Field. If you
have a 30pd/30ed Force Field you could only turn it on for a 15pd/15ed FF (Note
the proportion is the same).
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #430
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Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 04:18 PM