Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 442
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 1999 11:00 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #442
champ-l-digest Saturday, July 3 1999 Volume 01 : Number 442
In this issue:
Re: Cyber HERO
RE: Variable powers
Re: Fantasy Hero Magic System Design
Re: Fantasy Hero Magic System Design
FH: Weapons Defense
Re: FH: Weapons Defense
unsubscribe
Re: 100 pts.
RE: Variable powers
Re: Aid for Stats
I'll Grab him and use him as a shield.
Re: I'll Grab him and use him as a shield.
Re: FH: Weapons Defense
Fw: I'll Grab him and use him as a shield.
Re: I'll Grab him and use him as a shield.
Re: FH: Weapons Defense
Uppin the ante - 250 Pts! Heroic dreams come true!
Re: Aid for Stats
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:37:32 +0800
From: "Colin aka Arkham aka the God King" <astroboy@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Cyber HERO
For those interested in cyberpunk I humbly offer my own webst for
inspection. The address is in the .sig While the game is actually being
played in GURPS there is nothing there that actually has game stats except
for the PCs. If anybody's really interested I'm sure I could provide you
with a HERO equivalent of them.
********************************************************
Colin Clark
For RPG stuff including:
Hong Kong 2028 Campaign and
HERO bits & pieces
see http://www.iinet.net.au/~astroboy
********************************************************
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Cc: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Cyber HERO
> On Tue, 29 Jun 1999, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
> > My understanding of the situation is that someone at ICE decided to
make
> > some changes (about 98% of the changes between the actual Final Draft
and
> > what was seen in print) to make it more closely match something that
they
> > had of their own in the cyberpunk arena.
>
> Large portions of the book smacked of ICE's cyberpunk world. I know that
> much of the material really didn't make a lot of sense.
>
> > And so, maybe another edition of Cyber HERO is in order, this time
using
> > the original manuscript and Michael Surbrook's new rules as a basis.
>
> Wow, uhm... I'm game.
>
> > PS: I'm going to go look around a little later for the original
> > manuscript for Cyber HERO, and if I can find it, I'll let the list know.
>
> Please! I'd love to see it again!
>
> --
> Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
>
> If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an
> infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even
> considering if there is a man on base. - Dave Barry
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 12:33:32 -0400
From: "Nasset, Dave (TransAlliance)" <dave.nasset-eds@eds.com>
Subject: RE: Variable powers
From: Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin [mailto:griffin@txdirect.net]
>At 09:20 PM 6/30/1999 -0700, Filksinger wrote:
<snip>
>You may feel it covers every example in the book (I don't, and see below
>for details) but it's taken directly from the writeup of Limited Power, so
>I don't feel I'm in error by using those parameters.
You are correct, it doesn't quite cover them all. But it does cover more
than it doesn't.
<snip>
>Where we disagree is on whether or not those cases /are/ adequately
>covered, and whether the Advantage is doing its job as well as it could,
>and thus on whether there's a need to do it at this time.
Agreed.
<snip>
>
>I have taken the position that Limited Power is adequate for pretty much
>anything not covered by one of the other, more specific, Limitations; in
>effect, I'd have to work /against/ that argument in order to find and
>create a new Limitation -- a Limitation I do not presently see any need
for.
I wasn't asking for the Limitation itself, per se. Just an example of how a
Power could be limited without being in the category of Limited Power. Your
examples from the present Limitations are good enough to tell me what you
think isn't a Limited Power.
<snip>
>Again, not all existing modifiers are covered by the parameters I extracted
>from Limited Power. Let's look at a few, in connection with these phrases:
>
> * Power only works (or does not work) when/if/unless/while <condition>
> * Power loses some of its effectiveness
>
>ALWAYS ON, INCREASED END COST, INDEPENDENT
<snip>
Agreed.
>SIDE EFFECTS, VISIBLE
<snip>
Agreed.
>FOCUS - Focus *does* make a Power conditional. However, it's legitimately
>broken out of Limited Power due to the sheer volume of the explanatory
>text; there are enough things to be specified about a Focus that it isn't
>adequately covered by: Limited (Conditional) Power, "Only when holding
><object>" -1/2. You have to define whether or not it's obvious, how
>accessible it it, bulk, fragility...
I assume that this means you think that Charges would also be covered under
such a case.
However, this still leaves roughly half of the Limitations in HERO. By your
reasoning, Activation, Gestures, Incantations, RSR, Reduced by Range, and
Reduced Penetration should all be eliminated. Additionally, since this
Advantage is no more than an expansion of Variable Advantage, this argues
that, if I can think of a combination of present Advantages and Limitations
(including Limited Power) that will do the job, the Advantage should not be
expanded to cover the job. While this may be a good idea in some cases, it
can cause a variety of clunky creations when a simple expansion of a given
Advantage would take care of them.
<snip>
>
>Then remind me why you think it needs rewriting. Perhaps then it will
>makes sense to me that you are ready to rewrite and replace an existing
>modifier rather than get a clairification on it.
First of all, I have always disliked Variable Advantage. As written, it
gives you _all_ Advantages of a given cost and below. This is reasonable for
the cost, but how do we write up a Power that has a choice between two
Advantages only? As it stands, we can only purchase Variable Advantage with
a Limitation on the Advantage, like this:
10d6 EB, Variable Advantage +1 1/2, (Limited Power: Can only use VA for 0
END or AP -1), Active Cost 125 pts, Real Cost 83.
My primary purpose was to eliminate such things, by giving some control over
the number of Advantages purchased with Variable Advantage. First you would
pay for the largest possible Advantage in the group, then pay for VA on top
of that, just like now. For a +1/4, you get two Advantages, for +1/2, you
get several (I suggested five), or a tight group that matches some SFX
closely, and for +1 you get any, just like now. I think this is a reasonable
expansion on the present state of affairs.
I believe the confusion was when I attempted to expand it further. At this
time, you can define Advantages that are exclusive, but not Limitations (or
other states other than SFX). I thought to expand Variable Advantages even
further, to allow multiple Limitation states as well as multiple Advantage
states. This is where it begins to tread on the toes of Limited Power.
At a minimum, I still want Variable Advantage to be expanded to cover cases
with less than _all_ Advantages. That I think is very reasonable. I also
like the idea of expanding it to cover multiple states, whether Advantages
or not, but YMMV. Besides, I admit that that part hasn't been run through my
play-and-cost-balance-o'meter exhaustively.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:49:11 -0400
From: Indiana Joe <jrc3@home.com>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Magic System Design
My own experimental magic system requires characters to have certain kinds
of Disadvantages (termed "mystic flaws" in my game). The more points they
have in mystic flaws, the more powerful spells they can cast. Characters
are limited to 25 points of mystic flaws, same as any other disad.
Joe Claffey | "In the end, everything is a gag."
jrc3@home.com | - Charlie Chaplin
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 11:02:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero Magic System Design
- --- Indiana Joe <jrc3@home.com> wrote:
> My own experimental magic system requires characters to have certain kinds
> of Disadvantages (termed "mystic flaws" in my game). The more points they
> have in mystic flaws, the more powerful spells they can cast. Characters
> are limited to 25 points of mystic flaws, same as any other disad.
What do these disads do (other than define the power level of the spells they
can cast)?
- -=>John Desmarais
http://www.sysabend.org/champions
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 17:06:01 -0500
From: Mitchel Santorineos <mitchels@megsinet.net>
Subject: FH: Weapons Defense
Can someone please tell me what the formula is for determining the Defense
of weapons and shields? For some reason I don't remember, and I know I'll
be an old man before Hero gets out a new Fantasy Hero rulebook.
Also, has anyone done a Fantasy Hero template for Creation Workshop? I
would be very interested in getting a copy.
Mitchel Santorineos
ICQ# 22259362
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 15:48:36 -0700
From: Rodger Bright <rodger.bright@cbpr.com>
Subject: Re: FH: Weapons Defense
I have created a pretty decent Excel 7.0 Character sheet for FH. It does all
sorts of calculating for you, and really optimizes space. It has headers and
verbage that are specific to my world, but those could very easily be edited
out. It's available on my web page under the "building your PC" section.
- --Rodger
http://i.am/altandara
Mitchel Santorineos wrote:
> Can someone please tell me what the formula is for determining the Defense
> of weapons and shields? For some reason I don't remember, and I know I'll
> be an old man before Hero gets out a new Fantasy Hero rulebook.
>
> Also, has anyone done a Fantasy Hero template for Creation Workshop? I
> would be very interested in getting a copy.
>
> Mitchel Santorineos
> ICQ# 22259362
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 19:03:33 -0400
From: Carl and Becka <c_hewett@bellsouth.net>
Subject: unsubscribe
unsubscribe champions
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 99 00:30:20
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 100 pts.
On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 01:38:00 GMT, Acid Rainbow wrote:
>On Sat, 26 Jun 99 01:03:44 , "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk> sent these symbols
>into the net:
>
>>On Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:47:00 -0400, David Nasset wrote:
>>
>>>A couple of times, people have asked what you would get yourself if some
>>>alien or genie gave you 10 or 15 pts. I think this is pretty chincy.
>>>
>>>The God of People Who Need to Get a Life has just given you 100 pts.
>>>What do you purchase?
>>
>>9 LS: Disease, Aging, Poison
>>20 4D6 Luck
>>15 Wealthy
>>10 +10 Pre (to 20)
>>5 + 10 COM (to 20)
>>7 +7 INT (to 20)
>>6 +3 EGO (to 13)
>>3 Oratory
>>3 Persuasion
>>3 Seduction
>>3 Streetwise
>>3 High Society
>>1 KS: Trivia
>>10 10x assorted KS
>>5 1 pt Regeneration OOC Only (-1)
>>
>>Others have suggested Universal Translator: why bother when when you
>>have Wealth, you can just hire a translator?
> To me this sounds like the words of a person who has never approached
>fluency with a 2nd language. For example, only if you're fairly fluent can
>you appreciate the quintuple puns possible only in Japanese, or other such
>things, altho I suspect in some ways linguist and a slew of languages would
>be more appropriate.
>
Actually, I used to be able to speak English, French, Latin, and Greek.
After a couple of weeks in France, I'm fluent in French.
What was your point again?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 18:28:32 -0500
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: RE: Variable powers
At 12:33 PM 7/2/1999 -0400, Nasset, Dave (TransAlliance) wrote:
>From: Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin [mailto:griffin@txdirect.net]
>
>>At 09:20 PM 6/30/1999 -0700, Filksinger wrote:
><snip>
>>You may feel it covers every example in the book (I don't, and see below
>>for details) but it's taken directly from the writeup of Limited Power, so
>>I don't feel I'm in error by using those parameters.
>
>You are correct, it doesn't quite cover them all. But it does cover more
>than it doesn't.
Well, I never claimed otherwise. I guess I'll consider that a point of
agreement.
>>FOCUS - Focus *does* make a Power conditional. However, it's legitimately
>>broken out of Limited Power due to the sheer volume of the explanatory
>>text; there are enough things to be specified about a Focus that it isn't
>>adequately covered by: Limited (Conditional) Power, "Only when holding
>><object>" -1/2. You have to define whether or not it's obvious, how
>>accessible it it, bulk, fragility...
>
>I assume that this means you think that Charges would also be covered under
>such a case.
Yes. I only needed to provide a few examples to make my point, so I wasn't
trying to categorize every Limitation in the book as belonging to one group
or the other.
>However, this still leaves roughly half of the Limitations in HERO. By your
>reasoning, Activation, Gestures, Incantations, RSR, Reduced by Range, and
>Reduced Penetration should all be eliminated.
You have taken a series of facts I outlined and drawn a different
conclusion from them than I did. I was not involved in the original game
design, of course, and can make no claim to special knowledge regarding
what went through the minds of the developers when these Limitations were
written up separately. However, it seems reasonable to suppose that the
Limitations you cite above were expected to be among those most commonly
used. So the game designers may have chosen to break these out in order to
quantify their value, thus standardizing their use.
For example, if RSR were not a separate Limitation, it might just fall
under the broad Conditional Power umbrella, and be worth anywhere from -1/4
to -2. Some GMs might value it at -1/4. Most wouldn't be using the -1 per
10 AP modifier, unless they'd invented it as a house rule. And some of
them would argue that RSR without such a penalty might be worth -1/2, but
/with/ such a penalty it should be worth -3/4. Given the number of
different authors writing up characters for Hero sourcebooks and
adventures, this could have been a royal mess.
I would guess that it is this sort of thing the Hero Guys sought to avoid
by breaking out the Limitations they anticipated would be most frequently
used. In theory, a new Limitation could be broken out of Limited Power,
despite its parameters being covered by Limited Power, if it was perceived
to be one that would be used a great deal and thus required a standardized
(intercampaign, rather than intracampaign) value.
But that would require finding something we've all been overlooking for
years, some hole that is simultaneously large enough to require filling so
that lots of people can immediately start using it, yet small enough to
have been overlooked throughout four published revisions of the rules.
>...if I can think of a combination of present Advantages and Limitations
>(including Limited Power) that will do the job, the Advantage should not be
>expanded to cover the job. While this may be a good idea in some cases, it
>can cause a variety of clunky creations when a simple expansion of a given
>Advantage would take care of them.
Hero can be clunky at times. Every game has its faults.
>First of all, I have always disliked Variable Advantage. As written, it
>gives you _all_ Advantages of a given cost and below. This is reasonable for
>the cost, but how do we write up a Power that has a choice between two
>Advantages only? As it stands, we can only purchase Variable Advantage with
>a Limitation on the Advantage, like this:
>
>10d6 EB, Variable Advantage +1 1/2, (Limited Power: Can only use VA for 0
>END or AP -1), Active Cost 125 pts, Real Cost 83.
>
>My primary purpose was to eliminate such things, by giving some control over
>the number of Advantages purchased with Variable Advantage. First you would
>pay for the largest possible Advantage in the group, then pay for VA on top
>of that, just like now. For a +1/4, you get two Advantages, for +1/2, you
>get several (I suggested five), or a tight group that matches some SFX
>closely, and for +1 you get any, just like now. I think this is a reasonable
>expansion on the present state of affairs.
I believe one campaign I played in did permit something the GM called
Limited Variable Advantage, which did pretty much what you describe: give
cost breaks based on the number of Advantages in the Power's bag of tricks,
so to speak. He allowed the same for Limitations. I'm not certain, but I
think he wound up discontinuing the "five-power" (it may have been four
powers in his case, I don't recall) discount level, because he thought that
for a lot of Powers, five (or four) was for all practical purposes all the
Advantages that would be applicable; that outside a Cosmic Power Pool, you
probably wouldn't have a Power that could reasonably adapt itself to a
dozen different Advantages. I'm not sure I agree with him there.
Invisibility, for example: Ablative, Mental Powers Based on CON, No
Knockback, Reduced By Range, Reduced Pentration, and Visible don't seem to
be applicable in any way. Out of 21 Limitations (I didn't count Limited
Power or Variable Limitation for these purposes), six are elimiated right
off the bat. Given the ability to switch out Limitations, Always On
doesn't make much sense either. That still leaves 14, a few of which
/might/ be inappropriate given the SFX of the character's Power.
>At a minimum, I still want Variable Advantage to be expanded to cover cases
>with less than _all_ Advantages. That I think is very reasonable.
If you stop there, so do I. It's one of those things where I don't see a
real /need/ for it, but I can see where others might. I would have no
objection to an expansion of Variable Advantage and Variable Limitation
that gave reasonable cost breaks for limiting the number of Adv/Lims that
could be selected, which I see is what you started off describing. I'm a
little leery of mixing in "other states" (by which I think you mean
modifiers other than Advantages and Limitations?)
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 20:13:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: Re: Aid for Stats
You know...
I really like the Aid: All Physical Characteristics at Once, 0
END, Persistant, Invisible to All Senses; Self Only, Only Up To Starting
Values construct.
Good for those "Unstoppable" Bricks. Couple this with some Armor,
Damage Reduction, KB Reduction, and Power Defense, and you have quite the
dapper cad... able to recover from all sorts of ills.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 20:17:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Subject: I'll Grab him and use him as a shield.
A very common maneuver I've seen in cinema:
Action Hero Judo Chops the Bad-Guy Mook/Hood and grabs him,
putting the poor dupe in front of him to use a shield before a hail of
bullets crashes into B-G M/H's chest, leaving our Action Hero unharmed.
How would you model this in HERO terms?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 17:30:15 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: I'll Grab him and use him as a shield.
Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> A very common maneuver I've seen in cinema:
>
> Action Hero Judo Chops the Bad-Guy Mook/Hood and grabs him,
> putting the poor dupe in front of him to use a shield before a hail of
> bullets crashes into B-G M/H's chest, leaving our Action Hero unharmed.
>
> How would you model this in HERO terms?
+X DCV Levels(5), Must have Stunned Mook available (-1/2 to -1)
Season X to taste. And of course a CVK would upgrade limitation, since
bulletproof Mooks are rather rare.
- -Mark
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 17:04:20 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: FH: Weapons Defense
At 05:06 PM 7/2/1999 -0500, Mitchel Santorineos wrote:
>Can someone please tell me what the formula is for determining the Defense
>of weapons and shields? For some reason I don't remember, and I know I'll
>be an old man before Hero gets out a new Fantasy Hero rulebook.
Per the Focus rules in the HSR, any Focus (which I'd think would include
weapons and shields) gets 1 DEF per 5 Active Points.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 19:56:12 -0500
From: "Daniel" <drake01@flash.net>
Subject: Fw: I'll Grab him and use him as a shield.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Daniel <drake01@flash.net>
To: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: I'll Grab him and use him as a shield.
> Personaly I'd just use the person's Body until it reached -10 or so
(showing
> that it was nothing but a bloody pulp)..this would cut down on just
HOLDING
> the body until the hero had no use for it. Another possible way as a power
> might be +10-20 body w/ Independent Focus (OAF) w/ limitation (needs
> dead/unconcious body). when the body runs out on the "focus" he starts
> taking it (showing again that the body is too far gone to be used as an
> effective shield)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@NJCU.edu>
> To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 7:17 PM
> Subject: I'll Grab him and use him as a shield.
>
>
> >
> > A very common maneuver I've seen in cinema:
> >
> > Action Hero Judo Chops the Bad-Guy Mook/Hood and grabs him,
> > putting the poor dupe in front of him to use a shield before a hail of
> > bullets crashes into B-G M/H's chest, leaving our Action Hero unharmed.
> >
> > How would you model this in HERO terms?
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 17:54:16 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: I'll Grab him and use him as a shield.
At 08:17 PM 7/2/1999 -0400, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>
> A very common maneuver I've seen in cinema:
>
> Action Hero Judo Chops the Bad-Guy Mook/Hood and grabs him,
>putting the poor dupe in front of him to use a shield before a hail of
>bullets crashes into B-G M/H's chest, leaving our Action Hero unharmed.
>
> How would you model this in HERO terms?
Very carefully.
No, wait....
Okay, this probably should be done with Standard Maneuvers, rather than
Martial Maneuvers or Powers, since it's essentially something anyone could do.
What I'd do is have the "Hero" do a Grab maneuver, and then get the +6
DCV bonus for being in 7/8 cover. If the attacks coming at him miss, but
would have hit without that DCV bonus, then they hit the poor guy being
used as a shield.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 23:29:31 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: FH: Weapons Defense
In a message dated 7/2/99 8:42:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bob.greenwade@klock.com writes:
> Per the Focus rules in the HSR, any Focus (which I'd think would include
> weapons and shields) gets 1 DEF per 5 Active Points.
and 1 BODY per power... so (in many cases) 1.
andy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 22:46:33 -0700
From: Chad Riley <chadriley01@sprynet.com>
Subject: Uppin the ante - 250 Pts! Heroic dreams come true!
Alrighty then.
Grab your radioactive spiders, warm up your poorly shielded space craft
and start your gammabomb countdowns. (Or alternately, have your parents
ship your nekked ass, watchem die infront o' you, or pour hard water on
yourself!)
I have actually been rather facinated by the 10/100 pt stuff here. You
guys and gals are pretty dang creative when given the points. So now I
wanna go all the way with this one. Make a 250 superheroic (or just
heroic) or villainish (depending on how you see yourself) version of
yerself.
Limiting the munchkiness as much as I care to:
No Attack power over 75 active points
No Defenses over 40 Active Pts (Singly 80 pts total (PD/ED)
Dex/SPD Limits 35/8
Movement/other powers limit 75 points...
All Stopsign/looking glass abilities acceptable.
Would like disads, origin, personality, and appearance noted as well.
If ya wanna do this you can send the characters to the group or just to
me or both. I'll collect them as best as I can and since I occasionally
consider myself somthing of a skilled doodler, I'll see about drawing
the characters up...I don't get to play much anymore, but character
creation is a favorite past time of mine. Maybe I will write up a little
Newsgroup Universe or sumthing.
If this sounds like a complete waste of time and you don't even want to
dignify it with an answer, that's okay. I'll recover.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 10:59:39 -0400
From: "Dale A. Ward" <daleward@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Aid for Stats
Greetings!
James Jandebeur wrote:
>
> > Sounds pretty cheesy. Just out of curiosity, what kind of special effect
> did
> > he come up with to justify effect ALL primary stats?
>
> "SHAZAM!"
>
> No, that's not the way I'd buy it, but it is a character whose powers cause
> all of his stats to go up, by whatever means they are bought.
>
> Of course, that doesn't actually answer your question, since you asked what
> special effect the other fellow had. I just thought I'd point out that they
> do exist, even if the power construct IS cheesy (and it is SO cheesy, too).
Hmmm... perhaps we now know the true origin of Cap's nickname "The Big Red
Cheese"?
Just a thought.
Dale A. Ward
****************************
* Working without a net... *
* or, Frankie, either! *
****************************
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #442
*****************************
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Date: Monday, September 06, 1999 10:37 AM