Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 465
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Friday, July 23, 1999 12:34 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #465
champ-l-digest Friday, July 23 1999 Volume 01 : Number 465
In this issue:
EarthQuake ???
Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
RE: Stun from Killing Attacks
RE: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: EarthQuake ???
Re: Addition To Walking Through Walls
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Group Mind
Re: EarthQuake ???
RE: Stun from Killing Attacks
RE: Stun from Killing Attacks
RE: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: [Fwd: Name help]
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: [Fwd: Name help]
Hero Games Online Store
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: [Fwd: Name help]
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: [Fwd: Name help]
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
RE: Addition To Walking Through Walls
RE: [Fwd: Name help]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:53:15 +0200
From: BISHOP@mail.sirnet.it
Subject: EarthQuake ???
hi folks,
I am curious... how do you simulate a earthquake power ???
I though about
TK AE Only to simulate Earthquake effect (-1) linked with
EB Physical, AE (to simulate people fall and things break down)
But I don't like it... anyone has a better idea about it ???
Thank ya
B.b.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:09:02 +0100
From: "Simon David Taylor" <beron@labyrinth.free-online.co.uk>
Subject: Stun from Killing Attacks
In a Hero System game I ran recently, one of the PCs was hit by a HKA, and
due to the hit location rolled and a +1 Stun multiplier ended up taking 50
points of Stun damage and 10 Body. The Body didn't penetrate the armour he
was wearing, but the Stun did, and was enough to leave him unconscious. I'm
wondering now if I was fair to that character.
The Hero System Rules aren't entirely clear on this; do Killing Attacks
still do Stun even if no Body damage penetrates the target's Resistant
defences? Is there a rule anywhere that the target of a Killing Attack only
takes Stun if at least 1 point of Body damage is taken? At the moment, I can
think of justifications for doing it either way.
Simon D. Taylor
beron@unforgettable.com
http://start.at/labyrinth
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:10:11 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
At 06:09 PM 7/22/99 +0100, you wrote:
>In a Hero System game I ran recently, one of the PCs was hit by a HKA, and
>due to the hit location rolled and a +1 Stun multiplier ended up taking 50
>points of Stun damage and 10 Body. The Body didn't penetrate the armour he
>was wearing, but the Stun did, and was enough to leave him unconscious. I'm
>wondering now if I was fair to that character.
>
>The Hero System Rules aren't entirely clear on this; do Killing Attacks
>still do Stun even if no Body damage penetrates the target's Resistant
>defences?
You bet. Ever seen someone hit with a bullet while wearing body armor? They
may not have any broken bones, but boy do they go down hard. Killing Attacks
do stun regardless of whether they do body.
You could always buy up your non-resistant PD.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The only deadly sin I know is cynicism."
Henry Stimson, 'On Service in Peace and War'
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:31:51 -0400
From: "Johnson, Adam" <AJohnson@clariion.com>
Subject: RE: Stun from Killing Attacks
Well, look at this from a realistic point of view.
You're wearing a Kevlar vest, which provides resistant defense from bullets. (Not knives, though... a knife or icepick will go through Kevlar rather easily, if memory serves.) Just for grins, you have a hard armor insert.
You get hit in the insert, but the bullet does not penetrate. The energy is still transferred, but as something called blunt trauma, over the area (or a portion) of the armored insert. Granted, it will knock the wind out of you, probably break a couple of ribs, and knock you over. However, you didn't take any BODY, just STUN. (What is the STUN multiple for a chest shot? I don't have any of my books with me right now.)
Also look at someone who gets shot in the helmet... even a glancing blow has a rather good chance of knocking the subject out.
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Adam Johnson
Product Support -- Head Lab Resident Area Tech (LabRAT)
ajohnson@clariion.com
- ----------------------------------------------------------
- -----Original Message-----
From: Simon David Taylor [mailto:beron@labyrinth.free-online.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, 22 July, 1999 13:09
To: Champions Mailing List
Subject: Stun from Killing Attacks
In a Hero System game I ran recently, one of the PCs was hit by a HKA, and
due to the hit location rolled and a +1 Stun multiplier ended up taking 50
points of Stun damage and 10 Body. The Body didn't penetrate the armour he
was wearing, but the Stun did, and was enough to leave him unconscious. I'm
wondering now if I was fair to that character.
The Hero System Rules aren't entirely clear on this; do Killing Attacks
still do Stun even if no Body damage penetrates the target's Resistant
defences? Is there a rule anywhere that the target of a Killing Attack only
takes Stun if at least 1 point of Body damage is taken? At the moment, I can
think of justifications for doing it either way.
Simon D. Taylor
beron@unforgettable.com
http://start.at/labyrinth
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:41:16 -0700
From: "John Jerles" <jjerles@pacificnet.net>
Subject: RE: Stun from Killing Attacks
Not to be a complete stickler, but... You are absolutely right about the=
transfering of energy over the area of a armored plate. And yes, a knife=
or ice pick will go quite easily through kevlar, as will a .22 caliber=
slug due to the slow velocity and narrow point of impact.
The one point that I would like to clarify is that if you are wearing armor=
and a bullet hits you, you stand a VERY slim chance of being knocked over.=
For a real world example of this watch the news footage of the San=
Fernando Valley bank robbery where the robbers had on body armor and the=
police were shooting them with everything they had. They never fell once=
due to blows to their armored sections. They only fell later when one was=
shot in the legs and the other put a bullet through his own head.
Anyway, if properly armored, the worst you will get is a bruised bone.=
Falling over almost never happens. If it did, armor would loose a great=
deal of it's effectiveness.
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 7/22/99 at 1:31 PM Johnson, Adam wrote:
>Well, look at this from a realistic point of view.
>
>You're wearing a Kevlar vest, which provides resistant defense from=
bullets. (Not knives, though... a knife or icepick will go through Kevlar=
rather easily, if memory serves.) Just for grins, you have a hard armor=
insert.
>
>You get hit in the insert, but the bullet does not penetrate. The energy=
is still transferred, but as something called blunt trauma, over the area=
(or a portion) of the armored insert. Granted, it will knock the wind out=
of you, probably break a couple of ribs, and knock you over. However, you=
didn't take any BODY, just STUN. (What is the STUN multiple for a chest=
shot? I don't have any of my books with me right now.)
>
>Also look at someone who gets shot in the helmet... even a glancing blow=
has a rather good chance of knocking the subject out.
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>Adam Johnson
>Product Support -- Head Lab Resident Area Tech (LabRAT)
>ajohnson@clariion.com
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Simon David Taylor [mailto:beron@labyrinth.free-online.co.uk]
>Sent: Thursday, 22 July, 1999 13:09
>To: Champions Mailing List
>Subject: Stun from Killing Attacks
>
>
>In a Hero System game I ran recently, one of the PCs was hit by a HKA, and
>due to the hit location rolled and a +1 Stun multiplier ended up taking 50
>points of Stun damage and 10 Body. The Body didn't penetrate the armour he
>was wearing, but the Stun did, and was enough to leave him unconscious.=
I'm
>wondering now if I was fair to that character.
>
>The Hero System Rules aren't entirely clear on this; do Killing Attacks
>still do Stun even if no Body damage penetrates the target's Resistant
>defences? Is there a rule anywhere that the target of a Killing Attack=
only
>takes Stun if at least 1 point of Body damage is taken? At the moment, I=
can
>think of justifications for doing it either way.
>
>Simon D. Taylor
>
>beron@unforgettable.com
>http://start.at/labyrinth
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:46:24 PDT
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 "Simon David Taylor" <beron@labyrinth.free-online.co.uk>
wrote:
>The Hero System Rules aren't entirely clear on this; do Killing Attacks
>still do Stun even if no Body damage penetrates the target's Resistant
>defences? Is there a rule anywhere that the target of a Killing Attack only
>takes Stun if at least 1 point of Body damage is taken? At the moment, I
>can
>think of justifications for doing it either way.
It's always been my understanding that STUN & BOD damage are applied to
defenses independently of one another. It doesn't matter if any BOD damage
gets through, you should still take the STUN. This is handy for
representing effects such as the following: "The massive claymore smashes
into your chest. The links hold, and you don't think you heard anything
break, but you're going to have a major bruise..." The bruise, in this
case, indicates that the character is in major pain, and is that much closer
to falling unconscious. In other words, he's taken STUN, but no BOD.
Hope that helps.
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 13:29:41 -0400
From: Chris Hartjes <chartjes@littlehart.net>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Simon David Taylor wrote:
>
> In a Hero System game I ran recently, one of the PCs was hit by a HKA, and
> due to the hit location rolled and a +1 Stun multiplier ended up taking 50
> points of Stun damage and 10 Body. The Body didn't penetrate the armour he
> was wearing, but the Stun did, and was enough to leave him unconscious. I'm
> wondering now if I was fair to that character.
>
> The Hero System Rules aren't entirely clear on this; do Killing Attacks
> still do Stun even if no Body damage penetrates the target's Resistant
> defences? Is there a rule anywhere that the target of a Killing Attack only
> takes Stun if at least 1 point of Body damage is taken? At the moment, I can
> think of justifications for doing it either way.
>
Of course they still do STUN if no BODY damage gets through. It seems
pretty clear to me in the rulebook, or maybe I'm just dense... :)
Chris Hartjes
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:52:10 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
> In a Hero System game I ran recently, one of the PCs was hit by a HKA, and
> due to the hit location rolled and a +1 Stun multiplier ended up taking 50
> points of Stun damage and 10 Body. The Body didn't penetrate the armour he
> was wearing, but the Stun did, and was enough to leave him unconscious.
I'm
> wondering now if I was fair to that character.
>
> The Hero System Rules aren't entirely clear on this; do Killing Attacks
> still do Stun even if no Body damage penetrates the target's Resistant
> defences? Is there a rule anywhere that the target of a Killing Attack
only
> takes Stun if at least 1 point of Body damage is taken? At the moment, I
can
> think of justifications for doing it either way.
To a great extent, it depends on what you want the game to be like. If you
want the heroes to go down from killing attacks, then you should use the
rules straight out of the book as they are normally interpreted (which is
what you were using). If you want them to stay on their feet after the small
arms fire bounces off of their chests (common in comic books, and not to
uncommon in action/adventure settings), then you would use another system.
Giving a straight Stun multiple, like x3, rather than using the "Stun
lottery" die roll is commong, and one GM I know simply has the stun multiple
apply to the Body that gets through defenses. But in more "realistic"
settings, the way it's written up in the book is probably all right,
although in my opinion unbalanced.
Of course, it's also possible to simply have the people who are going to
stay up after a hit buy the powers to do it, in the afformentioned comic
setting. Which would mean a 108 total defense to be able to ignore small
arms fire... (ok, perhaps I exagerate: I was including .50 cal rounds as
small arms. It's how they're listed in the book)
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:31:39 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <christopherrt@home.net>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
>>The Hero System Rules aren't entirely clear on this; do Killing Attacks
>>still do Stun even if no Body damage penetrates the target's Resistant
>>defences?
>
>You bet. Ever seen someone hit with a bullet while wearing body armor?
They
>may not have any broken bones, but boy do they go down hard. Killing Attacks
>do stun regardless of whether they do body.
You best believe it. I saw a news bit where a reporter (clearly not the
sharpest pencil in the drawer) put on a new bulletproof vest and had a guy
shoot him with a .22 caliber pistol from about 5 feet away. He was knocked
on his ass swearing profusely about the pain and shock. It hurts, it hurts
a lot, but you LIVE and between the two I'll take the stun.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 11:47:28 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: EarthQuake ???
At 06:53 PM 7/22/1999 +0200, BISHOP@mail.sirnet.it wrote:
>hi folks,
>I am curious... how do you simulate a earthquake power ???
>I though about
>
>TK AE Only to simulate Earthquake effect (-1) linked with
>EB Physical, AE (to simulate people fall and things break down)
>
>But I don't like it... anyone has a better idea about it ???
I'd just call it TK AE, Only to Cause an Earthquake. The character is
basically moving a large chunk of earth, which basically is what an
earthquake is.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:57:38 -0700
From: Mark Lemming <icepirat@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Addition To Walking Through Walls
Mike Christodoulou wrote:
>
> "TUNNELING
> A character with this Movement Power can move through the ground by
> creating a tunnel roughly his own size. [stuff deleted] Tunneling
> cannot be used on living creatures to cause damage. The tunnel is
> normally left open behind the charcter. If a character wishes to be
> able to fill in the tunnel behind himself, the cost is +10 points."
>
> I'd say that the barrier IS damaged by the Tunneling. In fact, depending
> on your reading of the rules, it might be a permanent damage. It doesn't
> say that you can move through the wall and leave the wall intact. It says
> that you have the option (for 10 extra points) to fill it in behind you.
Maybe have +10 for filling in and also get invisible effects. The special
effects should drive the power, not the power the effect. Tunneling would
have the advantage of just ignoring the wall damage.
You could also just go with Desolid and since it's a heavily limited
Desolid, just waive the +2 advantage for attacks.
- -Mark
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 12:43:52 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
> Well, look at this from a realistic point of view.
As he has not mentioned what type of Hero game it is, this is not
necessarily an appropriate way to look at it. In anything from a cinematic,
action/adventure game to a superhero game realism has little place.
JAJ, Gaming Philosopher
http://www.javaman.to/philosopher.html
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jul 1999 16:52:07 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* "Simon David Taylor" <beron@labyrinth.free-online.co.uk> on Thu, 22 Jul 1999
| The Hero System Rules aren't entirely clear on this; do Killing Attacks
| still do Stun even if no Body damage penetrates the target's Resistant
| defences?
Yes.
| Is there a rule anywhere that the target of a Killing Attack only takes
| Stun if at least 1 point of Body damage is taken? At the moment, I can
| think of justifications for doing it either way.
You are thinking of Force Wall, which works different from other defenses.
Specifically, if the Body of an attack does not penetrate the wall, neither
does the Stun. Otherwise, Body and Stun damage are figured separately, and
even if Body does not penetrate defenses, Stun might.
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Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 10:20:22 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@flashmail.com>
Subject: Re: Group Mind
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
> At 09:42 PM 7/20/99 EDT, you wrote:
> >I'm working on a critter with a group mind -- all members of a
given pack
> >share their thoughts constantly. The obvious place to start (for
me, at
> >least) is Mind Link, Always On. Three questions about this,
though:
> >
> >1) The softcover BBB lists Mind Link as Persistent (p. 57), and the
> >description says it costs 0 END -- so does it really need Always
On, or
> >can I handwave that part and just say they never want to "hang up"?
> >
>
> Handwave away.
That works fine, so long as you don't mind that any one who gets a
Mind Control on one can make him hang up. Otherwise, you need some
sort of physical method of preventing this.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 14:41:47 -0700
From: Darrin Kelley <backflash@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: EarthQuake ???
Actually, I used the following when I made my earth controlling
character to simulate a localized quake power.
Explosion, x2 area, only effects targets who are on the ground.
BISHOP@mail.sirnet.it wrote:
> hi folks,
> I am curious... how do you simulate a earthquake power ???
> I though about
>
> TK AE Only to simulate Earthquake effect (-1) linked with
> EB Physical, AE (to simulate people fall and things break down)
>
> But I don't like it... anyone has a better idea about it ???
> Thank ya
> B.b.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:53:20 -0500
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: RE: Stun from Killing Attacks
At 01:31 PM 7/22/99 -0400, Johnson, Adam wrote:
> You're wearing a Kevlar vest, which provides resistant defense from
> bullets. (Not knives, though... a knife or icepick will go through Kevlar
> rather easily, if memory serves.) Just for grins, you have a hard armor
> insert.
>
> You get hit in the insert, but the bullet does not penetrate. The energy
> is still transferred, but as something called blunt trauma, over the area
> (or a portion) of the armored insert. Granted, it will knock the wind out
> of you, probably break a couple of ribs, and knock you over. However, you
> didn't take any BODY, just STUN. (What is the STUN multiple for a chest
> shot? I don't have any of my books with me right now.)
A hit that "breaks a couple of ribs" probably did BODY. STUN damage is
transient; breaking bones sticks around for a long painful time after the fight.
- --
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:54:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: RE: Stun from Killing Attacks
On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, Bryant Berggren wrote:
> At 01:31 PM 7/22/99 -0400, Johnson, Adam wrote:
> > You're wearing a Kevlar vest, which provides resistant defense from
> > bullets. (Not knives, though... a knife or icepick will go through Kevlar
> > rather easily, if memory serves.) Just for grins, you have a hard armor
> > insert.
> >
> > You get hit in the insert, but the bullet does not penetrate. The energy
> > is still transferred, but as something called blunt trauma, over the area
> > (or a portion) of the armored insert. Granted, it will knock the wind out
> > of you, probably break a couple of ribs, and knock you over. However, you
> > didn't take any BODY, just STUN. (What is the STUN multiple for a chest
> > shot? I don't have any of my books with me right now.)
>
> A hit that "breaks a couple of ribs" probably did BODY. STUN damage is
> transient; breaking bones sticks around for a long painful time after the fight.
This makes an interesting question...what would the limitation on armor be
for the opposite of Hardened? i.e. the armor acts as though all attacks
against it were Penetrating? -1/2? More? This would be an ideal
limitation for 'flexible armor'...
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:20:51 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: Stun from Killing Attacks
At 04:54 PM 7/22/1999 -0500, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>> A hit that "breaks a couple of ribs" probably did BODY. STUN damage is
>> transient; breaking bones sticks around for a long painful time after
the fight.
>
>This makes an interesting question...what would the limitation on armor be
>for the opposite of Hardened? i.e. the armor acts as though all attacks
>against it were Penetrating? -1/2? More? This would be an ideal
>limitation for 'flexible armor'...
For this, I'd just give it "Half BODY Gets Through As Normal-Damage
BODY" for a bonus of -1/4. I'd call it Normal damage, because it doesn't
bleed the way Killing damage would.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:24:40 +0100
From: "Simon David Taylor" <beron@labyrinth.free-online.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
I wrote:
>> In a Hero System game I ran recently, one of the PCs was hit by a HKA,
and
<snip></snip>
Scott A. Colcord wrote:
>You did it exactly right (See the Hero System Rulebook, p160). Killing
>attacks in the HERO System sometimes do large amounts of STUN to simulate
>blunt trauma. In general, HERO is designed for it to be relatively easy
>to knock an opponent out, but hard to kill them. Normal attacks do more
>STUN than killing attacks (on the average), but killing attacks have a
>much larger variance (determined by the STUN multiple). This models the
>effect of the attack either glancing off of the armor (and doing little),
>or impacting solidly on it (and probably knocking the person out).
Which raises another point. I've seen in a couple of places the use of an
increased Stun multiplier for weapons which cause uglier or more painful
wounds,
which was my rationale for adding it to the HKA in question. However, that
kind of
effect should only apply if Body damage penetrates armour. I suppose I could
have
an increased Stun multiplier with the limitaion "Only if Body taken", but I
really don't
want to go there, though I guess it wouldn't be too hard to calculate.
Looking at the Hero System Rulebook, I notice that most of the weapons given
a +1 Stun multiplier are blunt or impact weapons, with the strange exception
of the Energy Sabre. Cyberclaws (which it was in my case) probably don't
warrant it. What do most people here use an Increased Stun multiplier to
represent?
Simon D. Taylor
beron@unforgettable.com
http://start.at/labyrinth
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:58:45 PDT
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
On Fri, 23 Jul 1999 "Simon David Taylor" <beron@labyrinth.free-online.co.uk>
wrote:
>What do most people here use an Increased Stun multiplier to
>represent?
The Tire Iron of the Gods.
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:46:07 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Name help]
Bob Greenwade wrote:
> At 06:23 PM 7/21/1999 -0500, Tim Statler wrote:
> >
> >I'm needing help with names for foriegn supers.
> >
> >the first I need help with in English would roughly translate into "The
> >Red Bull". What is the Spanish Equivelent? I've been told it might be
> >"El Toro Rojo". The name might also be called "The Demon Bull" in
> >English.
>
> My sources also indicate that "El Toro Rojo" is correct; another
> possibility would be "El Toro Colorado." (I don't have the translation for
> the word "demon" for Spanish, though.)
>
Asked my wife last night, she's a native spanish speaker. She
said that the poper translation is "El Toro Del Demonio."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:48:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Simon David Taylor wrote:
> What do most people here use an Increased Stun multiplier to
> represent?
I use it to represent a waste of points...
(If you do the math, you're better off just buying the extra dice that a
straight KA would give you...
Example: 3d6 RKA (45) vs 2d6 RKA w/ +1 Stun Mult (45) vs 1d6 RKA w/+4 Stun
(45)
Min Max Average
3d6 3 Body, 3 STUN 18 Body, 90 STUN 11 Body, 28 STUN
2d6 w/+1 Stun 2 Body, 2 STUN 12 Body, 72 STUN 7 Body, 25 STUN
1d6 w/+4 Stun 1 Body, 4 STUN 6 Body, 54 STUN 4 Body, 26 STUN
)
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:06:44 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Name help]
Oscar Tibor wrote:
> --- Jesse Thomas <haerandir@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >At 06:23 PM 7/21/1999 -0500, Tim Statler wrote:
> >
> > > >I'm needing help with names for foriegn supers.
> > > >
> > > >the first I need help with in English would roughly
> > translate into "The
> > > >Red Bull". What is the Spanish Equivelent? I've been
> > told it might be
> > > >"El Toro Rojo". The name might also be called "The
> > Demon Bull" in
> > > >English.
> >
> > On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 Bob Greenwade
> > <bob.greenwade@klock.com> wrote:
> >
> > > My sources also indicate that "El Toro Rojo" is
> > correct; another
> > >possibility would be "El Toro Colorado." (I don't have
> > the translation for
> > >the word "demon" for Spanish, though.)
> >
> > 'Rojo' does mean red. I don't know about the Spanish for
> > 'demon', but
> > 'diablo' = 'devil'. You might also consider 'malo',
> > meaning 'bad' or
> > 'evil'.
> >
> > Jesse Thomas
>
> How about "El Toro Malvado" for The Demon Bull. Or for a
> truly cruel twist "El Toreador" The Bullfighter.
> Interesting name for a 500kg bipedal bull that tramples,
> gores, and bites people.
> Of course if you want a more humorous character, call him
> or her El Chupacabra. Many a Mexican spouse has beaten
The Chupacabra is Sheep Biter/Sucker. Cabra translate to
sheep and and chupar is to bite or suck. My wife was born
and raised in Nicaragua. She says the legend of the
Chupacabra is started in the mid eighties and is limited to
nothern mexico. So bacially the Chupacabra is a goat
vampire from northern mexico.
>
> and/or divorced their mate for coming home at 2am and
> seriously claiming the hicky on their neck was caused by
> the Chupacabra.
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 02:28:49 GMT
From: "S A Rudy" <sarudy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Hero Games Online Store
Well, it's a start.
I just wandered over to the Hero Games site and, while I still got the under
construction message, I got a popup window claiming to be my "shopping
cart".
It may not be in effect, but I'd call it a promising sign.
- -S
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:38:25 -0500
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Simon David Taylor wrote:
> <snip>
> Which raises another point. I've seen in a couple of places the use of an
> increased Stun multiplier for weapons which cause uglier or more painful
> wounds,
> which was my rationale for adding it to the HKA in question. However, that
> kind of
> effect should only apply if Body damage penetrates armour. I suppose I could
> have
> an increased Stun multiplier with the limitaion "Only if Body taken", but I
> really don't
> want to go there, though I guess it wouldn't be too hard to calculate.
> Looking at the Hero System Rulebook, I notice that most of the weapons given
> a +1 Stun multiplier are blunt or impact weapons, with the strange exception
> of the Energy Sabre. Cyberclaws (which it was in my case) probably don't
> warrant it. What do most people here use an Increased Stun multiplier to
> represent?
Look at Hollow Points and Mecury Tipped bullets. Both are modifications
to bullets that do not increase the damage done to a persons body, but
increases the shock effect when the bullet hits. I interpret this to be an
increased stun multiplier. Conversely, a laser would probably have a lower
stun multiplier (1D3 for 1/2 limitation) since it cuts through what it hits and
converts very little kinetic energy into damage. On top of that it catarizes
the wound it makes, leaving little possibility for bleeding damage.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:43:45 EDT
From: AndMat3@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Name help]
In a message dated 7/22/99 10:00:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rossrannells@worldnet.att.net writes:
> The Chupacabra is Sheep Biter/Sucker. Cabra translate to
> sheep and and chupar is to bite or suck. My wife was born
> and raised in Nicaragua. She says the legend of the
> Chupacabra is started in the mid eighties and is limited to
> nothern mexico. So bacially the Chupacabra is a goat
> vampire from northern mexico.
the goat vampire of northern mexico... cool... hehehe...
that's very very very odd...
but in a weird way.
andy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 23:01:38 -0500
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
At 09:38 PM 7/22/99 -0500, Ross Rannells wrote:
> Look at Hollow Points and Mecury Tipped bullets. Both are modifications
> to bullets that do not increase the damage done to a persons body, but
> increases the shock effect when the bullet hits.
I know very little about mercury-tipped bullets, but hollow-points certainly
DO increase the "damage done to the person's body" -- as they expand they
carve out a larger wound channel. In other words, they do more BODY,
assuming they get through defenses at all.
> I interpret this to be an increased stun multiplier. Conversely, a laser
> would probably have a lower stun multiplier (1D3 for 1/2 limitation)
> since it cuts through what it hits and converts very little kinetic
> energy into damage. On top of that it catarizes the wound it makes,
> leaving little possibility for bleeding damage.
This would (IMO, of course) better be described by making a laser do less
damage dice period, but also Armor Piercing.
- --
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:46:00 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@flashmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
From: John Jerles <jjerles@pacificnet.net>
<<Not to be a complete stickler, but... You are absolutely right
about the transfering of energy over the area of a armored plate. And
yes, a knife or ice pick will go quite easily through kevlar, as will
a .22 caliber slug due to the slow velocity and narrow point of
impact.
>>
More accurately, a .22 caliber slug _can_ go through, not will. It
usually won't. An ice pick will virtually every time, unless it is one
of a breed of more expensive body armors, usually using some newer
fiber than aramid (Kevlar), specially woven. A knife can, but won't
always, go though a Kevlar vest. A slash is not very likely to, just
as a slash is likely to be deflected by heavy leather, but a thrust
generally will.
>>The one point that I would like to clarify is that if you are
wearing armor and a bullet hits you, you stand a VERY slim chance of
being knocked over.<<
Actually, you usually will, at short ranges.
>>For a real world example of this watch the news footage of the San
Fernando Valley bank robbery where the robbers had on body armor and
the police were shooting them with everything they had. They never
fell once due to blows to their armored sections. They only fell
later when one was shot in the legs and the other put a bullet through
his own head.>>
Depends upon what you are hit with. The police were generally hitting
them with 9 mm rounds fired from automatic pistols, or buckshot, at
extreme range. When the police went to a nearby gun shop, they not
only got more powerful weapons, they got more powerful ammo. They not
only didn't have very powerful pistols, they weren't even using the
best ammo.
A .45, a .357, or a .44 Magnum will put you on your ass real quick,
body armor or no, as will a short-range shotgun blast. It is not
uncommon for rounds as small as a .22 to knock a person wearing body
armor over. In fact, being knocked over while wearing body armor is so
common that some experts claim that good marksmanship and .38s should
have done the job.
>>Anyway, if properly armored, the worst you will get is a bruised
bone. Falling over almost never happens. If it did, armor would
loose a great deal of it's effectiveness.<<
As for only getting a bruised bone, police in body armor have had
broken bones on a number of occasions. Ribs are most common, but
broken collar bones and even broken shoulder joints are not uncommon.
A shotgun blast will crack ribs for sure.
The robbers in Los Angeles did as well as they did because police were
issued guns with poor knockdown capabilities at any real range, and
forbidden to carry heavier weapons. Ignoring any issues of
marksmanship, they were trying to knock down the bank robbers at the
extreme range for their weapons, their side arms had comparitively
little power, and their shotguns have almost none at real ranges. If
it had been King County/Seattle, where I live, the officers would have
gotten out their M-16 rifles and put a quick end to it.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 15:50:22 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@flashmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Name help]
From: Oscar Tibor <oscartibor@yahoo.com>
<snip>
> How about "El Toro Malvado" for The Demon Bull. Or for a
> truly cruel twist "El Toreador" The Bullfighter.
> Interesting name for a 500kg bipedal bull that tramples,
> gores, and bites people.
Works in English, but the pun does _not_ work in Spanish. Toreador
isn't "bullfighter", but more "man who fights bulls".
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:43:37 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@flashmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
From: Ross Rannells <rossrannells@worldnet.att.net>
<snip>
>
> Look at Hollow Points and Mecury Tipped bullets. Both are
modifications
> to bullets that do not increase the damage done to a persons body,
but
> increases the shock effect when the bullet hits.
Actually, both _increase_ the damage done to a person's body, as
measured by wound cavity and fatality statistics.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:49:41 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: Addition To Walking Through Walls
Mike Christodoulou wrote:
> As for the SFX of vibrating, I'd be very hesitant to allow that as
> Tunneling. It sounds more like Desolid. The only reason
> Tunneling was
> brought up in this thread was that the character in question should be
> vulnerable to attack.
This thread has brought to light the fact that while the HERO System does a
wonderful job of being a "generic" or "universal" system, it doesn't go all
the way to being an entirely effects-based system. Instead of having
completely generic "powers" like Move or Damage, HERO powers still have some
vestiges of the comic-book powers they appear to have grown out of. In this
case Desolid simulates Kitty Pryde-like "phasing" where the character is
both immune to most forms of attack and can pass through solid objects;
Tunneling just lets characters pass through solid objects, but is itself a
movement power.
I'd really like to see the "next generation" of HERO System (or some system)
go all the way toward making entirely effects-based powers in which a
character would simply buy the ability to pass through solid objects--or
something even more abstract than that--and add immunity to damage to it to
create "phasing" abilities. Until then we're stuck arguing over which power
is for passing through objects, Desolid or Tunneling.
Because of my own bias, I'd choose Desolid primarily for being immune to
damage and Tunneling for passing through objects, so I vote for Tunneling.
How the character Tunnels is purely the choice of special effects.
grant
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:08:59 -0700
From: Grant Enfield <enfield@asu.edu>
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Name help]
> At 06:23 PM 7/21/1999 -0500, Tim Statler wrote:
> >
> >I'm needing help with names for foriegn supers.
[...]
> >The other name is for a Japanese girl speedster. The name I'd like to
> >use is "Pretty Quick". Is there a way to translate that into Japanese
> >and keep the double meaning of "pretty"? If not, what's the
> translations
> >for both meanings?
I could ramble about translation theory for a bit, but that wouldn't be
helpful. :)
Finding a word in the "target" (translating _to_) language that means
something nearly synonymous to the word in the source language as well as
having similar connotations is difficult enough even among European
languages. For example, to translate the English word _traffic_ into French
a translator must choose between _le trafic_ and _la circulation_.
Forgetting the problems of gender, _le trafic_ is more closely related
etymologically to _traffic_, but it means primarily "trade" and calls the
idea of drug trafficking quickly to mind. _La circulation_ means vehicular
traffic, as well as things similar to the concepts associated with the
English words "circulation" and "currency." So a translator need to decide
what the word "means" in the source language first, then deal with the fact
that all translations must interpret that meaning.
Adding that the target language word have a homonym with a similar meaning
to a homonym of the source language is nearly impossible outside of closely
related languages. This will be complicated because the languages that use
Chinese characters (like Japanese) also associate words with similar-looking
characters despite that they sound nothing like each other. (The number four
is bad luck in China, Japan, and Korea because the character looks very
similar to the character for "death.")
So after the rambling I promised I wouldn't give you, my advice would be to
find a native Japanese speaker and get them to help choose a name for the
superhero. You can also give them a name that sounds to your ear like the
English translation a Japanese hero might give for their own name.
grant
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #465
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Date: Monday, September 06, 1999 10:46 AM