Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 478
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Friday, July 30, 1999 2:03 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #478
champ-l-digest Friday, July 30 1999 Volume 01 : Number 478
In this issue:
Re: Construction Workshop HTML output filter
Re: Construction Workshop HTML output filter
Re: Defensive Strike ?
Re: Hero online store goes live
Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
Re: Young Justice Writeups?
Heromaker
Re: FH D&D Conversions.
Re: Heromaker
Re: Defensive Strike ?
Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
Re: FH D&D Conversions.
Re: Heromaker
Re: FH D&D Conversions.
Re: Defensive Strike ?
Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
Re: Heromaker
Re: Viper Sourcebook
Re: FH D&D Conversions.
Re: Heromaker
RE: D&D to FH conversions
RE: D&D to FH conversions
Re: Western?
RE: Western?
Re: Idea: Scale Hero
Re: Western?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:04:19 EDT
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: Construction Workshop HTML output filter
In a message dated 7/29/99 12:54:22 PM, johndesmarais@yahoo.com writes:
>So, was I the first customer?
>
I'll have to check on that...
=97 Steve Peterson, Hero Games=20
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:07:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Construction Workshop HTML output filter
On Thu, 29 Jul 1999 HeroGames@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 7/29/99 12:54:22 PM, johndesmarais@yahoo.com writes:
>
> >So, was I the first customer?
> >
>
> I'll have to check on that...
Yeah, I punched an order in for Kazei 5 pretty fast.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"Never give in. Never, never, never, never."
Winston Churchill
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 13:29:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Defensive Strike ?
Stainless Steel Rat writes:
> One hex, one shot. If the limitation says "2 shots", you get 2 shots, and
> you cannot shoot into 3 hexes. If you make an exception, the limitation
> bonus just dropped by a quarter.
Nah, I'd call it a -1/4 limitation either way.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:34:06 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Hero online store goes live
> Our online store is now up!
Oh, great. I'm already poor enough as it is.
Must...resist...
James
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:51:44 EDT
From: RButler96@aol.com
Subject: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
This may not apply, but I'm going to bring it up anyway...
I recently became a player, and bought myself the Champions Deluxe 4th
Edition. Anybody know how to get the software that the book says it comes
with? I originally thought it came with the book, but the book arrived and
the software didn't.
I bought it because I thought the software would make it easier on a
starting player, but now I seem to be out of luck...
Any suggestions?
Rebecca
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:06:03 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
At 05:51 PM 7/29/99 -0400, you wrote:
>
> This may not apply, but I'm going to bring it up anyway...
>
> I recently became a player, and bought myself the Champions Deluxe 4th
>Edition. Anybody know how to get the software that the book says it comes
>with? I originally thought it came with the book, but the book arrived and
>the software didn't.
>
> I bought it because I thought the software would make it easier on a
>starting player, but now I seem to be out of luck...
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Rebecca
You're more out of luck than you think, Rebecca. First of all, that software
("Heromaker") is no longer in production. The current version, which is really
two pieces, "Creation Workshop" and "Hero Template", is great, but the learning
curve is ugly.
Moreover, now that you've sunk your money into the 4th Edition, Hero is about
to come out with the 5th Edition in the Fall. That in itself shouldn't be a
terrible thing, as the word is that the changes are not big.
You have two options. You can try to find someone who owns Heromaker and buy
it from them, or you can purchase the two things listed above (I recommend
against buying the stripped-down version known as Hero Creator). There is a
Creation Workshop mailing list that is very helpful in getting over that
learning curve.
Scott
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I may not have always done what was right, but at least I had good
intentions."
Rousseau, 'Confessions'
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:31:44 -0600
From: "Mark Hayes" <mark@caislean.com>
Subject: Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
> At 05:51 PM 7/29/99 -0400, you wrote
> You have two options. You can try to find someone who owns Heromaker and buy
> it from them, or you can purchase the two things listed above (I recommend
> against buying the stripped-down version known as Hero Creator).
Why??? Looking at the software descriptions on the store I'm not sure why the full
blown version is that much better if all you want to do is create and manage your
Champions characters. Seems that the extra $20 for the full package plus templates
is is better spent if you're plugging in a lot of your own tables or plan on using
other template packs.
Mark
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:36:13 -0500
From: Gary & Kim Miles <miles.kim.gary@mcleodusa.net>
Subject: Re: Young Justice Writeups?
geoff heald wrote:
> At 08:56 PM 7/27/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >Has anyone done any Young Justice (DC's teen heroes) Champions writeups.
> >If so, can they email them to me, point me to the URL, send me Heromaker
> >or Hero Creator files, etc.?
> >
> >I'm doing a multiversal crossover adventure right now titled: "Secret
> >Crisis Wars on Infinite Worlds", and so far the characters (from San
> >Angelo) have met the X-Men, Gen-13, Dr. Destroyer, and they are
> >currently in the DCU. Young Justice arrived as the final "page" of the
> >last session, and I'm currently writing them up myself, but if someone
> >can save me some work...?
> >
> >Thanks in Advance,
> >Gary
> >
> >
>
> Could you post your results? I'd like to see Impulse most of all, but
> they'd all be worth a look.
I'll give it a shot. It may be a couple of weeks. (I've got to finish writing
them up this weekend for Sunday's run. Wish me luck...)
Gary
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:59:59 -0600
From: "Mark Hayes" <mark@caislean.com>
Subject: Heromaker
> ("Heromaker") is no longer in production.
Does anyone know if the old Heromaker has any bugs that would keep it from being
useful for helping a bunch of new players? My current gaming group has just
expressed a desire to try some Champions, so any a very long absence from the game
I'm brushing off my old stuff and picking up a few spare copies of Champions 4th
edition used (yes I know Hero 5th is on it's way) and one of these copies did come
with the software. Is this still fully functional to at least use long enough to
see if we decide to make Champions one of our regular games (Oh how I hope so) before
sinking any further cash into the current software.
BTW, after something like 6 years away from the system it's very nice to see it alive
and well.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:09:19 -0400
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
Subject: Re: FH D&D Conversions.
Personally, there are a whole lot of things I wouldn't port over to Hero ...
Character Classes (thought I might make package deals), Levels (what an ugly
concept :-), and things like that. I switched from AD&D to Fantasy Hero
(some 8 years ago?) because there was too much about D&D I didn't like.
I recently played AD&D again, for about half a year. Mainly because a group
of good (and, sigh, younger) friends invited me to join. The low level
campaign was fun, and I remembered a lot of the things I did like about D&D.
The higher level campaign later on reminded me of why I had quit playing
years ago.
I really dislike the way Fantasy Hero has done spells and the like. I have
seen some good things posted on this list over the years, and I liked the
Rainbow Fantasy Hero magic system posted in Red October some time back.
Still, I have not found something I like. Magi just seem to much like
superheroes to me.
The D&D Magic system has plenty of flaws, and needed work ... but it also
had a lot of charm. Spell Books, memorizing spells, and plenty of
predefined spells is somewhat attractive. If/when I develop my Fantasy Hero
campaign, I will probably combine part of the Rainbow magic system, and D&D
when it comes to how magic works.
Anyway, I am and have been interested in people porting D&D's magic system
to Fantasy Hero.
As for the whole thing ... I'll pass ... both as a GM and a player. :-)
~ Mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:30:27 -0700
From: Derek Hiemforth <derekfnord@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Heromaker
At 3:59 PM -0700 7/29/99, Mark Hayes wrote:
>> ("Heromaker") is no longer in production.
>
>Does anyone know if the old Heromaker has any bugs that would keep it from
>being
>useful for helping a bunch of new players?
Mark -
IMO, there are four main obstacles to using HeroMaker; I'll spell
'em out and let you decide how much of a problem they'll be:
1. The printer drivers are old and haven't had any ones added in a
long time. So you may have trouble printing, depending on what printers
you'll try to use and whether any of the drivers will work for them.
2. It's a DOS program, and as machines and OS's get newer and newer,
DOS programs get more and more tricky. It's not a particularly
demanding DOS program, but you never know what little thing might
cause a problem in Win98 or something.
3. As you mentioned, Hero System 5th Edition is coming out soon, and
HeroMaker won't be updated for it.
4. It's not supported anymore as far as I know, so if you have major
problems (unlikely; I never had any major problems and I used it quite
a lot) then Hero Software may not be able to help you out.
All that said, I never had any problems with HeroMaker, because
I happened to have access to printers it worked with, was able to
make it play nice in DOS, etc. Your mileage may vary. :-)
- - Derek
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:46:10 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Defensive Strike ?
At 01:29 PM 7/29/1999 -0700, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Stainless Steel Rat writes:
>> One hex, one shot. If the limitation says "2 shots", you get 2 shots, and
>> you cannot shoot into 3 hexes. If you make an exception, the limitation
>> bonus just dropped by a quarter.
>
>Nah, I'd call it a -1/4 limitation either way.
My take on it is to apply the Limitation that would reduce a Power
costing 5 points to the number of points equal to the number of shots you
want. Thus, 4 shots would be -1/4, 3 shots would be -1/2, and 2 shots
would be -1. (All are applied to the Autofire Advantage only, not the
whole Power.)
If you want to "skip over" hexes, I'd just allow the same Limitation,
but require an appropriate 5-point Combat Skill like those in An Eye For An
Eye.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:42:55 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
At 06:06 PM 7/29/1999 -0400, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
>
>You're more out of luck than you think, Rebecca. First of all, that software
>("Heromaker") is no longer in production. The current version, which is
really
>two pieces, "Creation Workshop" and "Hero Template", is great, but the
learning
>curve is ugly.
It can be bought in one piece, "Hero Creator" (to which you allude later
in the above-quoted post). And the learning curve isn't quite *that* bad
(though it is steeper than with HeroMaker -- such is all too often the
price of flexibility).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 20:18:06 EDT
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
In a message dated 7/29/99 2:53:00 PM, RButler96@aol.com writes:
> I recently became a player, and bought myself the Champions Deluxe 4th
>
>Edition. Anybody know how to get the software that the book says it comes
>
>with? I originally thought it came with the book, but the book arrived
>and
>the software didn't.
>
> I bought it because I thought the software would make it easier on
>a
>starting player, but now I seem to be out of luck...
>
> Any suggestions?
We no longer sell HeroMaker software. We have new software, HERO Creator,
which is native 32-bit Windows software. You can find it in our online store
at www.herogames.com.
Sorry about the confusion, but the Deluxe book hasn't been sold with the
software for several years. It was $50 with software, $35 without.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 20:09:22 +0000
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@inetnebr.com>
Subject: Re: FH D&D Conversions.
Another problem I have had in the past getting the DnD crowd to convert over
has been ... Many players like easy character creation They are used to rolling
dice 6 times, and selecting Race and Class bingo, Try presenting them with a
list of
dozens of skills and expect them to choose their stats.... and balance the
hundred
choices these "advanced" games entail, shhheeesh well can you see why we convert
so few. If we define their choices in terms they are familiar with well they may
actually
like the new freedoms we give em.
Jesse Thomas wrote:
> Thu, 29 Jul 1999 GAZZA <gazza@wantree.com.au> wrote:
>
> >The overall topic of this posting is "WHY??!!!"
>
> Character attachment. Here's the scenario:
>
> You're the GM of a long-running D&D campaign. All your players have level
> 9+ characters that they've been playing for months or years. They have
> grown attached to these characters, and have a lot invested in the abilities
> that they have acquired, especially their relative abilities. Now, you want
> to convert over to this cool new system. It's got all these great features,
> like increased flexibility, and greater control over character development.
> You're really excited about the potential, and you tell your players the
> good news! No longer will they have to be restricted by artificial class
> and level limits! No longer will magic users be required to die rather than
> don armor or swing a sword! Isn't this great?!
>
> You are answered by the sound of crickets chirping. Finally, one of your
> players recovers from his shock and asks, "Does this mean I can't be a 15th
> level Enchanter any more?"
>
> The fact of the matter is, players love their characters. They are very
> proud of the amount of time and effort that has gone into creating them.
> They are fond of the abilities that they have selected for their characters.
> Mages love to chuck fireballs, and players who play mages have probably
> spent months anticipating the acquisition of a particular spell that they
> couldn't use until they hit 11th level. Warriors and their players have
> worked hard for the right to attack 3 times per round. They are pleased
> with the progress they have made on the only terms with which they are
> familiar, and to some, the benefits of a new system are unlikely to be
> apparent to them when all they can think about is what they stand to lose.
> Thus, the GM's of these groups, which are by no means the only groups, are
> forced to convert their entire system over into HERO. Once they've played
> under the new rules for a while, most players come to accept them, even love
> them, and the thrill of making a level is replaced by the thrill of saving
> up enough xp's for a new spell or martial maneuver, but that first step is
> generally the hardest.
>
> Jesse Thomas
>
> haerandir@hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/lancelot/roleplay Lance Dyas
lancelot@inetnebr.com
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 21:18:38 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Heromaker
At 04:59 PM 7/29/99 -0600, you wrote:
>
>> ("Heromaker") is no longer in production.
>
>Does anyone know if the old Heromaker has any bugs that would keep it from
>being
>useful for helping a bunch of new players?
Heromaker has very few bugs beyond it's limited printing capability and
DOS-based functions.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I may not have always done what was right, but at least I had good
intentions."
Rousseau, 'Confessions'
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 20:28:02 +0000
From: Lance Dyas <lancelot@inetnebr.com>
Subject: Re: FH D&D Conversions.
Michael Sprague wrote:
> Personally, there are a whole lot of things I wouldn't port over to Hero ...
> Character Classes (thought I might make package deals), Levels (what an ugly
> concept :-), and things like that. I switched from AD&D to Fantasy Hero
> (some 8 years ago?) because there was too much about D&D I didn't like.
>
> I recently played AD&D again, for about half a year. Mainly because a group
> of good (and, sigh, younger) friends invited me to join. The low level
> campaign was fun, and I remembered a lot of the things I did like about D&D.
> The higher level campaign later on reminded me of why I had quit playing
> years ago.
>
> I really dislike the way Fantasy Hero has done spells and the like.
I'm not fond of there colleges and spells which a feel the same either.
> I have
> seen some good things posted on this list over the years, and I liked the
> Rainbow Fantasy Hero magic system posted in Red October some time back.
I missed that one.
> Still, I have not found something I like. Magi just seem to much like
> superheroes to me.
For me I think I need to define extra cost for effects which are more superhero
style
than Fantasy Magick,
If Flying, Fire ball shooters bug you ... They do me!
One might consider increasing the cost of flight by 50% or even 2x or requiring
they take a specific limit (without benefit)
such as flying must be linked with a major shape shift effect (which doesn't
allow fireballs because they require gestures)
or have flight via air elementals (which makes your flight erratic and penalizes
targeted effects)
Predefining all your players spells may be burdensome at first but can prevent
style conflict.
> The D&D Magic system has plenty of flaws, and needed work ... but it also
> had a lot of charm. Spell Books, memorizing spells,
I don't like either of these first two, spell books were made artificially
useful. Knowledge is useful enough....
and instant amnesia Blech.
The charm of D&D me thinks is nostalgia.
> and plenty of
> predefined spells is somewhat attractive.
This worked nicely it missed spell improvisation. and a bunch of other things.
> If/when I develop my Fantasy Hero
> campaign, I will probably combine part of the Rainbow magic system,
Ummmm details details I missed the post on Rainbow magic.
> and D&D
> when it comes to how magic works.
>
> Anyway, I am and have been interested in people porting D&D's magic system
> to Fantasy Hero.
>
> As for the whole thing ... I'll pass ... both as a GM and a player. :-)
>
> ~ Mike
- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/lancelot/roleplay Lance Dyas
lancelot@inetnebr.com
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 29 Jul 1999 21:40:44 -0400
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Defensive Strike ?
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
* Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> on Thu, 29 Jul 1999
| Nah, I'd call it a -1/4 limitation either way.
Maybe you misunderstand? If "2 shots" is a -1/2 limitation to Autofire,
then more than that is -1/4 less, or -1/4 total bonus.
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v0.9.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
iD8DBQE3oQKcgl+vIlSVSNkRAvAmAJ0dzCOadcDAh9A0BPnLqwvnznU2mQCgyFxi
xZV3ul5I8WfCrtGQK4Z+xa4=
=CnNy
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ returned to its special container and
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ kept under refrigeration.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:53:59 -0700
From: "Jim Dickinson" <gameknight@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Scott C. Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
> The current version, which is really
> two pieces, "Creation Workshop" and "Hero Template", is great, but the
learning
> curve is ugly.
Are there any manuals/instructions that come with the software? Are the
help files good? It says that you can create scripts and customize, etc.
Are there instructions for doing this as well?
Also, does it come on CD, disks, what?
And a question for Steve P. if he sees this: When it is downloadable, will
it be in a format that will be portable? If not, is there any way to
recover the software from the website or Hero Games if a HDD crashes
(without having to buy it again)? Maybe there is a way to make "original
disks" to re-install from?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 22:32:18 EDT
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
In a message dated 7/29/99 6:57:07 PM, gameknight@msn.com writes:
>Are there any manuals/instructions that come with the software? Are the
>help files good? It says that you can create scripts and customize, etc.
>Are there instructions for doing this as well?
>
There are very extensive help files for both Creation Workshop and the Fuzio=
n=20
template. There are also tutorials and plenty of examples for customizing.
>
>Also, does it come on CD, disks, what?
>
The software comes on floppies at retail, or soon you'll download it directl=
y.
>
>And a question for Steve P. if he sees this: When it is downloadable,
>will
>
>it be in a format that will be portable? If not, is there any way to
>
>recover the software from the website or Hero Games if a HDD crashes
>
>(without having to buy it again)? Maybe there is a way to make "original
>
>disks" to re-install from?
You'll be able to get a new password in case you lose your files... we keep =
a=20
record of every buyer, so we know if you've bought it. Though keeping a=20
backup means you won't have to download it again.
=97 Steve Peterson, Hero Games=20
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:55:12 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
At 10:32 PM 7/29/1999 EDT, HeroGames@aol.com wrote:
>
>You'll be able to get a new password in case you lose your files... we
keep a
>record of every buyer, so we know if you've bought it. Though keeping a
>backup means you won't have to download it again.
Yeah, no kidding! I wish I'd been able to back up my downloaded copy of
the CORPS Vehicle Design System 1.0 (though I did at least get to grab a
few ideas from it for TUV before my system destroyed it).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:46:12 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Champions 4th Edition Deluxe
At 06:53 PM 7/29/1999 -0700, Jim Dickinson wrote:
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Scott C. Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
>
>
>> The current version, which is really
>> two pieces, "Creation Workshop" and "Hero Template", is great, but the
>learning
>> curve is ugly.
>
>Are there any manuals/instructions that come with the software? Are the
>help files good? It says that you can create scripts and customize, etc.
>Are there instructions for doing this as well?
The answer to this is... sort of. The help files are really quite good;
the manual is so-so, being mostly designed to get a person started and
familiar with the way the program "thinks" (and it is good as far as that
goes).
The help files designed to assist in making your own scripts, templates,
and such have been converted into PDF format which (I think) is
downloadable from somewhere. I understand that these are also quite good,
though I personally have yet to make any serious try at it.
>Also, does it come on CD, disks, what?
One 3.5" floppy each.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:58:17 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Heromaker
At 09:18 PM 7/29/1999 -0400, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
>>
>>Does anyone know if the old Heromaker has any bugs that would keep it from
>>being
>>useful for helping a bunch of new players?
>
>Heromaker has very few bugs beyond it's limited printing capability and
>DOS-based functions.
It actually has almost no actual bugs; I found the only significant ones
by trying keyboard shortcuts for what were written as mouse functions.
(Pressing "A" from the main screen, for instance, starts to bring up a
menu, but then the whole system freezes up and only ctrl-alt-del will get
you out.) Those shouldn't affect new players much, though, as long as you
just use the mouse. Its only real weakness was that it was written with
the assumption that the user would want to use the mouse for virtually
*everything* but text entry.
Really, Creation Workshop is very much superior to HeroMaker, except
possibly for a few menu items that are arguably non-intuitive. (I wouldn't
say they're counter-intuitive, really; there are a number of terms that
were chosen for things mainly because similar, arguably more intuitive
terms were game specific in other systems and might cause confusion.
Creation Workshop is intended as a multi-system character and equipment
creation program, and of course as a program gets more generic, it almost
necessarily becomes less perfectly attuned to any given application.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 23:00:06 EDT
From: JVButlerJr@aol.com
Subject: Re: Viper Sourcebook
Anyone know where the Viper Sourcebook might be available?
Jack Butler
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 21:24:18 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <christopherrt@home.net>
Subject: Re: FH D&D Conversions.
>Another problem I have had in the past getting the DnD crowd to convert over
>has been ... Many players like easy character creation They are used to
rolling
>dice 6 times, and selecting Race and Class bingo, Try presenting them with a
>list of dozens of skills and expect them to choose their stats.... and
balance the
>hundred choices these "advanced" games entail, shhheeesh well can you see
why we convert
I've never had any trouble converting AD&D players, they typically hate the
system of making characters in it, love the flexibility, love the combat,
love the disads especially.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 22:55:47 -0600
From: Mark Hayes <mark@caislean.com>
Subject: Re: Heromaker
At 09:18 PM 7/29/99 -0400, Scott C. Nolan wrote:
> >Does anyone know if the old Heromaker has any bugs that would keep it from
> >being
> >useful for helping a bunch of new players?
>
>Heromaker has very few bugs beyond it's limited printing capability and
>DOS-based functions.
Well I found one of my local Hobby stores that actually has Hero Creator,
Creator Workshop and a few E-Books in stock. Thinking I might just pick up
the Hero Creator locally and then pick up the Upgrade to Creator Workshop
when it's available for direct download.
Anybody (maybe at HGames) know if the upgrade from creator to workshop
comes with the Fuzion template?
Mark Hayes
mark@caislean.com
http://www.caislean.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 01:35:50 EDT
From: MWStrong@aol.com
Subject: RE: D&D to FH conversions
Evidently, TSR(tm) has a wolf in the flock that pushed a suppliment through the system. The AD&D expansions Players Options: Skills and Powers, PO: Spells and Magic, and PO: Combat and Tactics have taken a big step toward becoming Fantasy Hero. In PO: S&P one is alloted "character points" based upon race and class to purchase racial abilities (Dwarven underground skills, Infravision, etc), class abilities (Hide in shadows, weapon spec), and weapon / nonweapon skills. There are even sections for perks, abilities (keen sight), and diadvantages.
I determined but forgot the convertion between "char points" and Champion real points, but it only took me about an hour to figure. If enough people bug me, I will recalc it.
Now to my question: I play AD&D with several people whom I want to convert to FH, but they resist even looking at the players options books. Any suggestions for enticing them to FH?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 01:40:47 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: RE: D&D to FH conversions
At 01:35 AM 7/30/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Evidently, TSR(tm) has a wolf in the flock that pushed a suppliment through
>the system. The AD&D expansions Players Options: Skills and Powers, PO:
>Spells and Magic, and PO: Combat and Tactics have taken a big step toward
>becoming Fantasy Hero. In PO: S&P one is alloted "character points" based
>upon race and class to purchase racial abilities (Dwarven underground
>skills, Infravision, etc), class abilities (Hide in shadows, weapon spec),
>and weapon / nonweapon skills. There are even sections for perks, abilities
>(keen sight), and diadvantages.
> I determined but forgot the convertion between "char points" and
>Champion real points, but it only took me about an hour to figure. If
>enough people bug me, I will recalc it.
> Now to my question: I play AD&D with several people whom I want to
>convert to FH, but they resist even looking at the players options books.
>Any suggestions for enticing them to FH?
Just do it. I did about five years ago. The storm of bitching was epic and
nearly non-stop. But six months later, 8 of my 10 players told me that they
really liked the flexibility a lot, although they missed yelling "20!".
When I converted, I spent a lot of time doing the conversions. I balanced the
AD&D levels so that the characters were still recognizable. I also threw them
several bones to ease the passage (I allowed them to buy a few Talents, and so
forth.) It all worked out.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I may not have always done what was right, but at least I had good
intentions."
Rousseau, 'Confessions'
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 23:07:03 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Western?
At 03:03 AM 7/29/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Actually this could be quite a good topic. Western Hero, Anyone? I was
>running a game until recently when my Gaming group fell apart. I even
>had a character who was a former Buffalo Soldier (For the deeply rare
>events when other people GMed.)
>
>Sometimes a tad difficult to come up with plots for Western hero that
>weren't "The bad guys show up and try to shoot you."
>
>
>Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
>
Alias Smith and Jones is a decent hook to hang a campaign on.
For those unfamiliar with the series, Hanabal Hayes and Kid Curry were
outlaws, but "in all the banks and trains they robbed, they never killed
_anybody_." They may have also said they never shot anybody. So, when they
decided to go straight, they approached a Sheriff they trusted who took
them to the Governor. The Governor told them that if they could keep their
noses clean for five(?) years, he'd grant them amnesty. Until then, only
the Governor, the Sheriff, and they would know about the amnesty offer. So,
they travelled around using the names Thaddeus Smith and Joshua(?) Jones.
The recurring gag was at the end of the opening, a posse would rush over a
hill behind them and as they spur their horses into a gallop, one would
say, "I sure wish the Governor would let a few more people in on our secret."
About half the episodes had them coming into town because a big crime had
been commited and witnesses identified Hanabal Hayes and Kid Curry as the
culprits, so they had to come prove that the bad guys weren't them. This
half was again divided about 50/50 between crimes commited by men who
resembled them and crimes like the bank manager was embezzeling and claimed
there had been a robbery.
The other half of the episodes dealt with them helping people in need
because they were basicly good people, often by running a scam with the
help of people they had known from their outlaw days.
The Sheriff is a contact, as sometimes when they got arrested, he'd come to
take them back for trial and then let them go with a warning like "If you
don't get this cleared up within a week, I'll have to come after you." He
would also rescue them if they had been arrested just for being the wanted
criminals they were, but only if the jusridiction was willing to turn them
over (instead of trying them). Some episodes began that way.
Sometimes the Sheriff was the one who alerted them to charges against them.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 23:36:47 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Western?
At 11:58 AM 7/29/99 -0400, you wrote:
>I think a western setting could be really interesting. If you push back the
>boundaries set by the old western movies and include some native mysticism,
>wandering Chinese kung fu masters and haunted gold mines you could come up
>with all kinds of nutty plots.
>
>The only real problem I see is keeping your PC's breathing. The number one
>genre rule for westerns is that one shot usually kills you. Gunfighting is
>the name of the game in any western story and nobody wears any armour
>heavier than a leather duster. I guess you could let the PC's buy defenses
>and have the special effect be that shots from banditos never really get a
>good piece of them, but I think that's a cheesy way to go.
>
I disagree. Lots of people in Westerns get shot and live, but shot in the
gut generally meant you would die slowly and unpleasantly. In fact, its
fairly genre to have the hero get shot and have to hole up with someone
(often a widow with a son) while he heals. He probably stays over the
winter, then works all spring to repay the kindness, then sets off to seek
revenge. That way he can get revenge and be back to settle down with the
widow by harvest time.
I mean, if you change the widow into a trusty native, that's the story of
the Lone Ranger, and you don't get more genre than that.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 23:40:10 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Idea: Scale Hero
At 09:01 AM 7/29/99 -0700, you wrote:
>geoff heald writes:
>> >
>> >Damage: add 4*RS damage classes to all of the character's attacks.
>>
>> This is a tad high. By this method, a 3' halfling with a bow will be hard
>> pressed to hurt me at all [Heavy Longbow, Str Min 17, would do 1/2d6] and a
>> gnome (1 1/2') could not hurt me using any or the medeval weapons in the
>> HSR.
>
>Hm...you realize that a 'STR min 17' on scale -1 is 'STR min 2' on scale
0. Half a die is reasonable. Halflings are _very_ strong for their size;
they have 20-25 STR on scale -1. I was actually thinking of making it 3
damage classes due to issues of concentration of force (lower total KE is
made up for by it being focused into a smaller area).
>
>
Well, regardless of the scaled STR min, there is no nastier bow in the
list. Perhaps you are suggesting that a halfling could use an out-of-scale
bow?
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 00:16:08 -0400
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Western?
At 09:41 AM 7/29/99 -0700, you wrote:
>At 03:03 AM 7/29/1999 -0700, jayphailey@juno.com wrote:
>>
>>Actually this could be quite a good topic. Western Hero, Anyone? I was
>>running a game until recently when my Gaming group fell apart. I even
>>had a character who was a former Buffalo Soldier (For the deeply rare
>>events when other people GMed.)
>>
>>Sometimes a tad difficult to come up with plots for Western hero that
>>weren't "The bad guys show up and try to shoot you."
>
> Yes, it certainly can be, especially since Westerns are almost as varied
>in tone as superhero stuff.
> For a more flighty Western, I like the "Wild Wild West," "Legend," and
>"The Adventures of Brisco County Jr" (at least, the post-John Bly stories)
>for ideas.
Allow me to suggest here Lazarus Man. Set just after the civil War, a man
is shot up and buried alive, but rescued by a young boy. He is carrying a
US military revolver, but has no memory of who he is or who left him for
dead. As the season ran on, we learned he had been a bodyguard for
President Lincoln, and may have uncovered a plot to kill him. About then,
the series got cancelled.
============================
Geoff Heald
============================
Attention all enemies of the Rival Ninja Corporation: You will lay down
your weapons and surrender to your nearest R.N.C. representative. Failure
to do so will result in your total destruction. Thank you.
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #478
*****************************
Web Page created with Text2Web v1.5.0 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Monday, September 06, 1999 10:48 AM