Digest Archive vol 1 Issue 479
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Friday, July 30, 1999 2:52 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #479
champ-l-digest Friday, July 30 1999 Volume 01 : Number 479
In this issue:
Re: Western?
Re: Western?
Re: Western?
Re: Western?
[Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Western?
Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
Re: Heromaker
Re: Adventure Idea: Millennium Bug
Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
PC feedback
Re: PC feedback
Power Point???
PC Feedback
re: Player Feedback
I GOT MY BOOK!!!
Re: I GOT MY BOOK!!!
Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
Re: FH D&D Conversions.
Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
Re: Western?
Re: FH D&D Conversions.
RE: Player Feedback
Re: Power Point???
Re: I GOT MY BOOK!!!
Re: FH D&D Conversions.
Re: FH D&D Conversions.
Re: Heromaker
Re: Adventure Idea: Millennium Bug
RE: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:59:08 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Western?
>> Sometimes a tad difficult to come up with plots for Western hero that
>> weren't "The bad guys show up and try to shoot you."
>
> And what exactly is wrong with that plot? :)
>
> JAJ, GP
Well nothing on the face of it. And it's a nice addftion to any real
plot. But by itself it gets boring after the third or fourth time. And
Jay as a bored GM is Jay as a non-motivated GM.
But big shootouts in HSR are really great fun!
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com/jay/
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:01:46 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Western?
> The problem I see with this is it throws the Complexity: Lethality
ratio
> off. I don't mind losing a character that I spent 5 minutes rolling
up, but
> if I spend a half an hour or more building it only to get gunned down
at the
> opening of the game, I'm unhappy. Not that it takes me that long to
build a
> simple character, but there are others that aren't so fortunate that
still
> play the game.
>
> JAJ, GP
Then it's a matter of the GM carefully tuning the lethality ratio to
provide a credible threat, while making the death of a PC rare enough so
that it's a real event and not just "oops! There goes another one!"
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com/jay/
___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:49:06 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Western?
> My solution to this would be to run it as a High Western. The bad
guys
> might get gunned down mercilessly and allowed to bleed to death, but
when
> the PCs get hit they're only Hurt Real Bad. With time, they'll heal.
:-]
yup-yup. No hero ever dies ina Western unless it's at the Alamo or
something. Other wise they get shot in the arms... a lot.
> Playing villains with poor tactics is another way to keep the PCs
alive.
> I think just about every Bad Guy in Westerns has Psych Limit:
Arrogant,
> and this lends itself quite well to stupidity.
> (Of course, you could also let the PCs buy extra BODY, and Damage
> Reduction vs BODY only, through an IIF -- they'll never die with
> their boots on!)
I LIKE that one!!
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com/jay/
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:47:19 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Western?
> Yes, it certainly can be, especially since Westerns are almost as
varied
> in tone as superhero stuff.
> For a more flighty Western, I like the "Wild Wild West," "Legend,"
and
> "The Adventures of Brisco County Jr" (at least, the post-John Bly
> stories) for ideas.
I *loved* Brisco Country Jr. That was one of the things that inspired me
to start our Western game. I never thought much of Wild Wild West. And
I never got to see Legend. The short lived "Magificent Seven: The
Series" was also quite interesting.
"A Dollar for the Dead" just had me howling. The Scene where Estevez
drops the shot glass, quickdraws, wastes the bad guy, reholsters the gun
and snatches the shot glass from mid-air *without spilling a drop* had me
English optional for several minutes. My friend who loves those sorts of
movies asked me why I thought it was so funny. I had to ask him if he'd
let my SPD 10 DEX 30 speedster do that trick if he were GMing.
he sulked but did not answer.
> For something more down to Earth, I'd gladly lift stories from
movies.
> There are the classics (many of which were lifted from other sources,
like
> "The Magnificent Seven"), and even some more unusual stories such as
> "Hawmps!" (based on a true story about an experimental cavalry
regiment
> that used camels instead of horses).
yup-yup.
> To my mind, for as nice as the Western Hero sourcebook is, it does
have
> two significant weaknesses: it doesn't give a big help in coming up
with
> story ideas, and it focuses so much on the traditional and historical
> Westerns that it virtually ignores other styles.
Oh yeah. And try to keep Heroic Characters within certain SPD, DEX, XCV
limits after those write ups of famous gunslingers. Sheesh!
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com/jay/
___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 02:30:25 -0500
From: Russ Harper <comix@radiks.net>
Subject: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
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Fowrarding this to where it was supposed to go in the first
place....sorry for the dupes Lance & Michael
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 01:31:36 -0500
From: Russ Harper <comix@radiks.net>
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To: Lance Dyas <lancelot@inetnebr.com>
Subject: Re: FH D&D Conversions.
References: <009001beda17$6432b3e0$878469d1@msprague.eznet.net> <37A0B952.52EDD087@inetnebr.com>
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Lance Dyas & Michael Sprague wrote:
> > I really dislike the way Fantasy Hero has done spells and the like.
>
> I'm not fond of there colleges and spells which a feel the same either.
>
> > I have
> > seen some good things posted on this list over the years, and I liked the
> > Rainbow Fantasy Hero magic system posted in Red October some time back.
>
> I missed that one.
>
> > Still, I have not found something I like. Magi just seem to much like
> > superheroes to me.
>
> For me I think I need to define extra cost for effects which are more superhero
> style
> than Fantasy Magick,
>
The thing about converting D&D magic to FH is that for me, the systems are hard to translate
back & forth when you try to get specific spell effects.
For example, the first level spell Magic Missile is usually on the 'required list' for D&D mages.
Ever try to build magic missle in FH? GAWD you have to allot wayyy too many points to get that
'automatic hit' effect, especially if it starts out as only a d6 attack, which would be comparable
to the D&D magic
missile's d4. I include as many limitiations as I can (gestures, etc...) but I still think it's a
little pricy.
The only thing that I can do to work around it is a VPP or other framework for magic.
But man, I hate making up spells on the fly. Especially if its a beginning character and only
supposed to have
one 'wimpy' spell like magic missile available to him. (I only do this when I try to be
'faithful' to D&D which isn't
often!)
Of course, I could be going about this in a really dumb way - I do more 'homebrew' systems than
anything out of
FH.
What's this Rainbow Fantasy Hero magic system? Anyone know where I can get more info?
- --------------BD8630AFBC859857839E80AA--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 03:39:18 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
First of all, when you forward something to the list, please be considerate
enough to strip out the headers if they're 25 freaking lines long.
Second, when translating AD&D spells to FH, don't bother with exactness.
Magic Missile translates nicely as:
1 pip RKA, NND (defense is 'Shield' spell or any of the numerous
anti-magic-missile spells) (+1), Does Body (+1), Autofire x5 (+1/2), No Range
Penalty (+1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Requires Skill Roll
(-1/2). AP: 20, RP: 10
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I may not have always done what was right, but at least I had good
intentions."
Rousseau, 'Confessions'
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 04:28:42 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
At 03:22 AM 7/30/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>Magic Missile translates nicely as:
>>
>>1 pip RKA, NND (defense is 'Shield' spell or any of the numerous
>>anti-magic-missile spells) (+1), Does Body (+1), Autofire x5 (+1/2), No Range
>>Penalty (+1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Requires Skill Roll
>>(-1/2). AP: 20, RP: 10
>
>Except that two missiles kills the average orc or 0th level human in
>AD&D,
True.
>these don't hit automatically,
Like I said, don't try for an exact translation. It'll drive you nuts.
>and we're ignoring the active point minimum for RKA...
Something I strongly advocate in any case.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I may not have always done what was right, but at least I had good
intentions."
Rousseau, 'Confessions'
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 04:54:50 -0500
From: Russ Harper <comix@radiks.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
"Scott C. Nolan" wrote:
> >>Magic Missile translates nicely as:.
You came up with about what I did, but see below.
Since I was trying to drag D&D players kicking and screaming into FH, I tried to
duplicate some of the more popular spells for them. They still thought it was too
complex, although they only had to tell me what spell they wanted and I cooked it
up for them.
>these don't hit automatically,
Boy did the mage whine when that happened.
>Like I said, don't try for an exact translation. It'll drive you nuts.
You said it, brother. I eventually chucked the whole idea & started FH characters
from scratch without any D&D spells.- and cheated and gave an "auto-hit" 1d6
stun-only NND attack to the whiny mage that he wasn't allowed to spend more points
on for 30 points. Yes, he wanted a 'magic misile" that badly.
IMHO, if you want to play FH, play FH. If you want to play D&D, play D&D. Trying
to emulate one through the other just gives one headaches.
Sorry about the address & header spam. I thought it was cleared out sufficiently
b4 I sent it. Then I laughed at the idiot who sent it, only to find out that the
idiot was me!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As the hippie on the Simpsons put it: SIMPLIFY, man....
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 03:48:53 -0700
From: jayphailey@juno.com
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
>> If you're in one of my campaigns, you keep track to see if you can
beat the
>> existing negative STUN record. :)
>
> Our record holder (under 3rd Ed rules) is Digital who hit -175 Stun.
My
> character - Koyotie) may hold the second place record with -75 (or
there
> abouts, I do know she took 100 Stun in a single shot and was only at 25
> Stun or so when it happened). Under 4th Edition, Sentinal took
something
> like 124 Stun and ended up at (uhm) around -50 after we took out his
base
> 45-60 Stun and his 30 DEF. That 124 Stun (and 36 Body) was the single
> largest attack I have ever rolled (30d6 EB).
>
> --
> Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com -
I don't have any concrete records any more But I know we had one
character who went to something like -100 stun at one point.
before we installed the Jeramie Test in the Onmega Squad Game, a Player
decided to get revenge on our characters and players for percieved
slights by using a munchkin-ed out Vampire to give our characters a hard
time.
We caught up with Mister Vampire boy in an armored semi after a couple of
game weeks of being unable to do anything to stop this guy. The semi was
armored to the point were our most powerful character's pushed attack
couldn't break the Defs.
So a flying brick with *lots* of non-com hauled the armored Semi into the
sky and did a mach 3 move through on the ground with it. (She pulled away
at the last second)
It was a 164d6 hit. To make the point we scammed everyone's dice
collection and rolled it. I don't recall how much body exactly was
rolled but I recall that using the 1 hex of earth = 16 BODY rule the
crater was 40 hexes wide and deep.
It was about the low point of munchkinism in the game. It wasn't too
long after that we came up with the jeramie test and actually rescued
some *role playing* out of it. And that is very surprising to me now
that I look back on it.
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!> [ICQ: 37959005]
Read Star Trek- Outwardly Mobile At-
http://phoenixinn.iwarp.com/jay/
___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:21:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Western?
On Thu, 29 Jul 1999 jayphailey@juno.com wrote:
> "A Dollar for the Dead" just had me howling. The Scene where Estevez
> drops the shot glass, quickdraws, wastes the bad guy, reholsters the gun
> and snatches the shot glass from mid-air *without spilling a drop* had me
> English optional for several minutes. My friend who loves those sorts of
> movies asked me why I thought it was so funny. I had to ask him if he'd
> let my SPD 10 DEX 30 speedster do that trick if he were GMing.
"A Dollar for the Dead" is what you would get is John Woo made a Western.
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"You! Get me a drink! Make it large, strong, and to go,
and put it on Godot's tab!"
Der Rock the Destroyer, from _Buck Godot: PSmIth_
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 07:24:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: Stun from Killing Attacks
On Fri, 30 Jul 1999 jayphailey@juno.com wrote:
> It was about the low point of munchkinism in the game. It wasn't too
> long after that we came up with the jeramie test and actually rescued
> some *role playing* out of it. And that is very surprising to me now
> that I look back on it.
And what is the "jeramie test"?
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"You! Get me a drink! Make it large, strong, and to go,
and put it on Godot's tab!"
Der Rock the Destroyer, from _Buck Godot: PSmIth_
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 06:52:42 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Heromaker
At 10:55 PM 7/29/1999 -0600, Mark Hayes wrote:
>
>Well I found one of my local Hobby stores that actually has Hero Creator,
>Creator Workshop and a few E-Books in stock. Thinking I might just pick up
>the Hero Creator locally and then pick up the Upgrade to Creator Workshop
>when it's available for direct download.
>
>Anybody (maybe at HGames) know if the upgrade from creator to workshop
>comes with the Fuzion template?
It almost definitely will. In fact, I'd expect that your upgrade from
Hero Creator to Creation Workshop will have only one difference from buying
Creation Workshop and then adding the Hero Template: you'll have the (less
powerful) Creator software in addition to CW.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:37:15 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@flashmail.com>
Subject: Re: Adventure Idea: Millennium Bug
From: Jim Dickinson <gameknight@msn.com>
> I am working up thick plotline that will span quite a few
adventures, and
> wind up in a HUGE one-shot session with some guest players, etc.
Anyway,
> when the players asked about the adventure, I off-the-cuff replied
that it
> was going to be called "The Millennium Bug" and gave them only about
as much
> detail as the previous sentence. Of course, I had NO IDEA what on
earth the
> adventure was going to be about, but over the past few weeks I have
churned
> up a few interesting ideas that I thought I would share on the list
(I am
> pretty sure that my players are not subscribed...) and solicit your
feedback
> as well as more ideas. Quite probably, your ideas will be even
better than
> mine!
Option 1 is the better of the two. Sub plot 2 is better than sub plot
1, unless you are either going for a very depressing change to your
campaign world, or intend to have the discovery of the plot cause the
law to be revoked and afterwards generally discredited to the point
that it never becomes a political issue again. The second is workable,
true, but just the fact that voters or politicians would agree in the
first place puts a very dark tone to your campaign.
In option 1, when the world gets plunged back to 1900, allow the
heroes gadgets that have some resemblance to their original devices,
when gadgets are the source of their power. Guns with special "stun
ammo", heavy steel plates sown into canvass instead of heavy armor,
etc. Since superhero technology is always a bit beyond
state-of-the-art, allow things like airplanes, too, but very early
ones.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:28:21 -0700
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@flashmail.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Coming Attractions At the Movies
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
> IIRC, the problem was that they could not attach the boards to the
ship due
> to a total lack of waterproofing and adhesives. This despite the
fact that
> A) Folks were building ships long before nails were invented and B)
> Waterproof epoxy can be made from barnicles that can be found on the
rocks
> in any lagoon.
A is quite correct. B took years of research to develop, and was not
possible when the show was made. Scientists took quite some time
trying to develop a way to produce barnicle adhesive, not just because
it will set underwater, but because barnicle adhesive won't stick to
itself, so coating the bottom of a boat with barnicle adhesive was
expected to keep barnicles off of it.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:42:58 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: PC feedback
Hi,
GM's, do you ever look for feedback from your players to make sure
everyone's having a good time? What kind of questions do you ask and what
kind of feedback do you find most useful?
Brian Wawrow
Financial Models Company
bwawrow@fmco.com
(905) 212 - 3055
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
your philosophy.
-Bill Shakespeare
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:51:08 -0400
From: Bizarnage <bizarnage@interstrike.net>
Subject: Re: PC feedback
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Feedback? Ain't that what you get when you tell the players no? :) But
seriously, I ask the people I run if they like how it's going and if there is
any way I can make it better. I find if they say something like..."that was
cool, but I'd like to accomplish a certain goal with my character." and each
player will have a different goal, but that is why society is SO much fun.
Brian Wawrow wrote:
> Hi,
>
> GM's, do you ever look for feedback from your players to make sure
> everyone's having a good time? What kind of questions do you ask and what
> kind of feedback do you find most useful?
>
> Brian Wawrow
> Financial Models Company
> bwawrow@fmco.com
> (905) 212 - 3055
>
> There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in
> your philosophy.
> -Bill Shakespeare
- --
When your a professional pirate, You'll be honest brave and free.
The soul of decency. You'll be loyal and fair and on the square,
And most importantly, when you're a professional pirate...
You're always in the best of company!
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<tt>Feedback? Ain't that what you get when you tell the players no?
:) But seriously, I ask the people I run if they like how it's going
and if there is any way I can make it better. I find if they say
something like..."that was cool, but I'd like to accomplish a certain goal
with my character." and each player will have a different goal, but that
is why society is SO much fun.</tt>
<br><tt></tt> <tt></tt>
<p>Brian Wawrow wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Hi,
<p>GM's, do you ever look for feedback from your players to make sure
<br>everyone's having a good time? What kind of questions do you ask and
what
<br>kind of feedback do you find most useful?
<p>Brian Wawrow
<br>Financial Models Company
<br>bwawrow@fmco>
<br>(905) 212 - 3055
<p>There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt
of in
<br>your philosophy.
<br> -Bill Shakespeare</blockquote>
<p>--
<p>When your a professional pirate, You'll be honest brave and free.
<br> The soul of decency. You'll be loyal and fair and on the
square,
<br> And most importantly, when you're a professional pirate...
<br>
You're always in the best of company!
<br> </html>
- --------------B67A22FC3F268E836BBA9E27--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:16:30 -0400
From: Bizarnage <bizarnage@interstrike.net>
Subject: Power Point???
Does anyone know when or if Power Point or Haymaker are going to be back
up, or if they are, where? Sorry if this has been covered recently...
Carl
- --
When your a professional pirate, You'll be honest brave and free.
The soul of decency. You'll be loyal and fair and on the square,
And most importantly, when you're a professional pirate...
You're always in the best of company!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:20:46 -0600
From: "Mark Hayes" <mark@caislean.com>
Subject: PC Feedback
A few years ago during a long running Shadowrun campaign I handed out questionaires
after about 6 months or a year. I listed all the major adventures the team had been
on and asked them to rate them on a 1-5 scale, and asked for feedback on anything at
the extremes. Then I listed the types of adventures we'd been on and hade them rate
those (extraction, investigation, supernatural, etc). Then I asked for open comments
about what they wanted to see more and less of as a player and for their characters.
Got some great feedback from that and tuned some of the campaign goals to more
closely match what they where having the most fun doing.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:31:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: Curt Hicks <exucurt@exu.ericsson.se>
Subject: re: Player Feedback
When I was running my campaign I used to ask at the end of each session for
comments. I also at one point passed out a survey.
There was one question on my survey that was
"You screwed up big time when ..... because ...."
I had to change it to "You (the GM)" after one player responded
"when I fell for the bad guys saying 'ladies first' and then they
pounded me from behind when my back was turned."
I'll see if I've still got a copy of the survey somewhere...
Curt
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:50:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: I GOT MY BOOK!!!
YAAAAAAHHHHHOOOO!!!
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"It's not a song about drinking. It's a song about drinking alone."
George Thorogood, about the song "I Drink Alone"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:09:38 -0500
From: "Logan Darklighter" <logand@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: I GOT MY BOOK!!!
I assume, that since you are mailing this to the Champions list, that you
are referring to the Kazei 5 book, and not the Silent Mobius RPG that you
were talking about or the Vol 11 of the Silent Mobius manga? ^_^
- -----Original Message-----
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Friday, July 30, 1999 11:51 AM
Subject: I GOT MY BOOK!!!
>YAAAAAAHHHHHOOOO!!!
>
>--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:04:40 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
> 1 pip RKA, NND (defense is 'Shield' spell or any of the numerous
> anti-magic-missile spells) (+1), Does Body (+1), Autofire x5 (+1/2), No
Range
> Penalty (+1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Requires Skill Roll
> (-1/2). AP: 20, RP: 10
That also works: instead of automatically hitting, it automatically does
damage. Really, a very fair trade-off.
JAJ
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:15:43 -0400
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
Subject: Re: FH D&D Conversions.
>I've never had any trouble converting AD&D players, they typically hate the
>system of making characters in it, love the flexibility, love the combat,
>love the disads especially.
In general, I agree. The two main complaints seem to be that there are no
saving throws, and combat takes too long.
~ Mike
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:03:27 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
>The thing about converting D&D magic to FH is that for me, the systems are
hard to translate
>back & forth when you try to get specific spell effects.
This only seems to be the case, in my experience: what it really is is that
many D&D spells are unbalanced for what they do, at least in Champions
terms. Some others, though, are unbuildable without getting ... ahem ...
"creative" with the rules, or just spending many many points.
>For example, the first level spell Magic Missile is usually on the
'required list' for D&D mages.
>Ever try to build magic missle in FH? GAWD you have to allot wayyy too
many points to get that
>'automatic hit' effect, especially if it starts out as only a d6 attack,
which would be comparable
>to the D&D magic
>missile's d4. I include as many limitiations as I can (gestures, etc...)
but I still think it's a
>little pricy.
The automatic hit is an example of a fundamental difference between
Champions and D&D: the idea of "absolute" effects. This spell doesn't miss,
that spell causes death unless you save, and so on. This does not exist in
Hero, for the most part, and as such, you should probably just avoid using
that aspect of the spell, at which point it's just a 1d6 Autofire RKA,
possibly at reduced or 0 END. That's not so bad. You could throw in a Hex
Effect, if you like, to come nearer to not missing.
>The only thing that I can do to work around it is a VPP or other framework
for magic.
I finally settled on a VPP when doing this conversion, for a couple of
reasons. In fact, I took it with the advantages No Time or Roll needed to
change, because I could switch to the next spell easily enough. Then take
"works like a D&D mage" as a -1/2 (-1? -2? Whatever) limitation. Then just
translate and write up the spells in Hero, decide by some means (possibly
based on the number of points in the VPP) what level Mage your character is,
and go from there.
One of the reasons VPP's work is to get the Wish spell, later. But that
could be a Summon, I suppose.
Now, VPP's aren't generally allowed in FH, of course, so you may not be
allowed to do this one. But it can work, and isn't all that unbalanced with
a lot of other characters.
>Of course, I could be going about this in a really dumb way - I do more
'homebrew' systems than
>anything out of
>FH.
Which is, in general, probably for the best.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:48:12 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Western?
> Then it's a matter of the GM carefully tuning the lethality ratio to
> provide a credible threat, while making the death of a PC rare enough so
> that it's a real event and not just "oops! There goes another one!"
Absolutely, but it can become a headache if their lives rely on one die roll
(and I do mean DIE roll :). The post I was responding to was talking about
the one shot == one kill aspect of the typical shootout.
Since actual shootouts (as opposed to gunfights) should be fairly rare, with
drawing down and all that, it could work out, though.
JAJ
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:24:12 -0400
From: "Scott C. Nolan" <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: FH D&D Conversions.
At 01:15 PM 7/30/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>I've never had any trouble converting AD&D players, they typically hate the
>>system of making characters in it, love the flexibility, love the combat,
>>love the disads especially.
>
>
>In general, I agree. The two main complaints seem to be that there are no
>saving throws,
Try giving them dice of Luck.
>and combat takes too long.
Too damned true. Nothing much you can do about that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I may not have always done what was right, but at least I had good
intentions."
Rousseau, 'Confessions'
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:31:59 -0400
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Player Feedback
I thought someone might find this useful. These are the questions I'm
mailing out to my players [except for that one rascal with no email].
More or less fighting?
What do you like/dislike about the way the fights have been run?
Do you find the plot predictable or hard to fathom. In other words, how's
the clue density?
How's the speed vs. detail balance?
Averaged out over time, do you get your fair share of plot focus? Do you
feel like you're involved directly?
Are you happy with the level of effect you have on the world around you?
Have I ignored elements of your character that you'd like to explore?
How have you changed your character concept to adapt to the game
environment?
Would you like to have more or less plot threads happening at the same time?
What were your favourite bits from the game so far?
What bits of the game sucked?
Tell me about something you really liked in another game that we could
possibly work into this game.
More gritty realism or more high fantasy?
] -----Original Message-----
] From: Curt Hicks [mailto:exucurt@exu.ericsson.se]
] Sent: Friday, July 30, 1999 12:31 PM
] To: champ-l@sysabend.org
] Subject: re: Player Feedback
]
]
]
] When I was running my campaign I used to ask at the end of
] each session for
] comments. I also at one point passed out a survey.
]
] There was one question on my survey that was
] "You screwed up big time when ..... because ...."
] I had to change it to "You (the GM)" after one player responded
] "when I fell for the bad guys saying 'ladies first' and then they
] pounded me from behind when my back was turned."
] I'll see if I've still got a copy of the survey somewhere...
]
] Curt
]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:46:19 -0700
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Power Point???
At 12:16 PM 7/30/1999 -0400, Bizarnage wrote:
>Does anyone know when or if Power Point or Haymaker are going to be back
>up, or if they are, where? Sorry if this has been covered recently...
Geocities was doing something really weird yesterday, but it's
apparently fixed now. You should be able to find them OK now.
If you continue to have problems, try this URL:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/1905/index.html
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
Interested in sarrusophones? Join the Sarrusophone Mailing List!
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/sarrus.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:47:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@dedaana.otd.com>
Subject: Re: I GOT MY BOOK!!!
On Fri, 30 Jul 1999, Logan Darklighter wrote:
> I assume, that since you are mailing this to the Champions list, that you
> are referring to the Kazei 5 book, and not the Silent Mobius RPG that you
> were talking about or the Vol 11 of the Silent Mobius manga? ^_^
Uhm, yeah, I'm talking about Kazei 5. Hmm... looks like I'll need to
create a proof reading guide to the book. At least two characters didn't
print, even though they are supposed to be there.
Man, I wish I had drawn more stuff for this...
- --
Michael Surbrook - susano@otd.com - http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"It's not a song about drinking. It's a song about drinking alone."
George Thorogood, about the song "I Drink Alone"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:50:40 -0700
From: Christopher Taylor <christopherrt@home.net>
Subject: Re: FH D&D Conversions.
>>>I've never had any trouble converting AD&D players, they typically hate the
>>>system of making characters in it, love the flexibility, love the combat,
>>>love the disads especially.
>>
>>In general, I agree. The two main complaints seem to be that there are no
>>saving throws,
I have never heard anyone say they missed saving throws. I think they got
past any delight in saving throws when they had their 10th character die
from rolling poorly against poison.
>>and combat takes too long.
>
>Too damned true. Nothing much you can do about that.
Absolutely true. The only thing you really can do is make combat so
INTERESTING and well paced (not too often, moves along well) that you don't
notice the time spent.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Deo Gloria Solus Christus Corum Deo
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:48:56 -0700
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: FH D&D Conversions.
> In general, I agree. The two main complaints seem to be that there are no
> saving throws, and combat takes too long.
For the first: Saving Throws are really the same as to hit rolls, with the
onus of the roll on the defender instead of the attacker (at least with
regards to spells - Poisons and such are another matter, possibly covered
with buying the defenses on an Activation Roll if you wanted to go that
far). All you'd have to do is have the defender make a regular attack roll,
DCV vs. OCV, and if successful the spell fails to have effect.
It doesn't cover all cases, but if you wanted to, that would be a start.
Combat sometimes does take too long, but that's partly because everything
has effectively more hit points. Give kobolds Body scores of 3 and combat
won't take long at all...
Sorry, couldn't help it.
JAJ
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:22:50 EDT
From: HeroGames@aol.com
Subject: Re: Heromaker
In a message dated 7/29/99 9:54:57 PM, mark@caislean.com writes:
>Anybody (maybe at HGames) know if the upgrade from creator to workshop
>
>comes with the Fuzion template?
>
Yes, it does.
=97 Steve Peterson, Hero Games=20
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:46:57 PDT
From: "Reverend Spith" <cptspith@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Adventure Idea: Millennium Bug
>From: "Jim Dickinson" <gameknight@msn.com>
>I am working up thick plotline that will span quite a few adventures, and
>wind up in a HUGE one-shot session with some guest players, etc. Anyway,
>when the players asked about the adventure, I off-the-cuff replied that it
>was going to be called "The Millennium Bug" and gave them only about as
>much
>detail as the previous sentence. Of course, I had NO IDEA what on earth
>the
>adventure was going to be about, but over the past few weeks I have churned
>up a few interesting ideas that I thought I would share on the list (I am
>pretty sure that my players are not subscribed...) and solicit your
>feedback
>as well as more ideas. Quite probably, your ideas will be even better than
>mine!
....
>Options, Sub-Plots, Main Adventure:
>OK, so here is where I have only a bunch of different ideas. Your feedback
>is encouraged and any other ideas are more than welcome. Maybe you can
>make
>this even more fascinating of an adventure!
....
>Option 1: .... NOW GET THIS: At midnight, Mechanon malfunctions due
>to a Y2K problem that was never resolved because he was so fixated on
>learning magic!!! However, this "Millennium Bug" in the flux of the birth
>of incredible magic in him does a really weird thing: It throws the world
>into synch with his messed-up clock -- Now the world is magically
>transformed into 1900. It's still the same world, and still the same
>people, but now technology has instantly regressed (TV's don't work, no
>cars, etc.), and Mechanon nearly fails completely himself--except that the
>magic within him keeps everything going.
Ok, I don't have any particular advice or ideas to offer, but I did want
to chime in to say that your Y2K/Magical reboot idea is awesome! It is the
perfect vehicle for a time-travel scenario without having to worry about
timetravel technology being around after the adventure is over. In fact, I
like the idea so much, I'm gonna steal it and run it when I start up my gama
again (kinda gives me a deadline, too!).
- -Reverend Spith
Savior of Humanity
Secular Messiah
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:51:05 -0700
From: "Harvey, Michael" <michael.harvey@intel.com>
Subject: RE: [Fwd: FH D&D Conversions.]
>> The thing about converting D&D magic to FH is that for me,
>> the systems are hard to translate back & forth when you try
>> to get specific spell effects.
>
> This only seems to be the case, in my experience: what it
> really is is that many D&D spells are unbalanced for what
> they do, at least in Champions terms.
Well, sort of. But there are a lot of restrictions on D&D magic which do
not exist in Fantasy Hero. In FH you can cast spells until you run out of
END, spend a few seconds recovering, and do it all over again. In D&D, that
first level wizard gets ONE spell per day, and to use it he must carry
around a spellbook and spend time memorizing it each morning.
Magic Missile
1d6 RKA (15), NND (+1), Does Body (+1), No Range Penalty (+1/2)
+7 OCV with single attack (14)
1 charge (-2)
Extra Time: 5 minutes (-2)
Delayed Effect (-1/2)
IIF: Spellbook, fragile (-1/2)
Gestures & Incancations (-1/2)
Can only "memorize" after eight hours of sleep (-1/2)
The extra time is spent "memorizing" the spell after a full night's sleep.
(If you don't like memorization, call it "preparation".) It is then Delayed
until needed. The IIF is needed only when memorizing (casting) the spell; if
you lose it you still have whatever spells are already memorized, but you
can't memorize any more.
Active Cost = 66
Real Cost = 9
To simulate a high level mage, add autofire to the RKA (74 active, 11 real).
A high level wizard might also buy additional charges, and increase the OCV
bonus.
This is still not quite identical to the AD&D version -- the wizard can
still miss the target with a bad roll, and the gestures and incantations are
performed while memorizing instead of at the time of release -- but I think
it's pretty close. Personally I never considered the AD&D magic missile to
be an especially useful spell unless you need to disrupt an enemy
spellcaster while he is casting a fireball, or perhaps if you need to kill a
normal rat. It is a little better in D&D which does not suffer from hit
point inflation, but still not great.
Mike
------------------------------
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Date: Monday, September 06, 1999 10:48 AM