Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 51
Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 12:38 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #51
champ-l-digest Tuesday, November 24 1998 Volume 01 : Number 051
In this issue:
Re: Cheep Speed
Re: Ultimate Books
Autopsy Forms
FW: Ultimate Verbosity
Re: Autopsy Forms
Re: Ultimate Books
Re: Autopsy Forms
RE: FW: Ultimate Verbosity
Re: Autopsy Forms
Re: Ultimate Books
Re: Autopsy Forms
Ultimate Weirdo Dimensions (was Ultimate Verbosity)
Re: Autopsy Forms
CIA World Factbook (was: Re: Ultimate Books)
Howdunit Series [REPOST]
Surbrook's Stuff to be moving
looking for Houston TX gamers
Re: Professional Books (was Ultimate Books)
Re: FW: Ultimate Verbosity
Re: FW: Ultimate Verbosity
Re: FW: Ultimate Verbosity
Re: Ultimate Books
Re: Professional Books (was Ultimate Books)
Re: Autopsy Forms
Re: Ultimate Books
Re: CIA World Factbook (was: Re: Ultimate Books)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:07:08 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Cheep Speed
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> "AD" == Asman, David <D.asman@wayne.edu> writes:
>
> AD> snipped from Stainless Steel Rat's message
> AD> "Watch: Character starts at Speed 4 (3,6,9,12).
> AD> On segment 3, character changes to speed 3 (4,8,12). On Segment 4,
> AD> chracter changes to speed 4."
>
> AD> If I remember the BBB correctly, when someone changes speed in the
> AD> middle of a turn, his/her next action won't be until the next common
> AD> phase for the previous and new speed.
>
> I suggest you read my post before telling me I'm wrong.
Your certainly not wrong. (Although, if I was ref for that situation,
my response would be "Oh, you've changed your speed. With your new
speed, you don't get an action this segment. Next..)
Somebody who changes their speed must accept certain restrictions on
when they can do it, be it post 12's only or once per turn. Having
imposed this restriction, having them be able to act using their new
speed chart straight away would not be TOO abusive.
- --
Rick Holding
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:14:34 -0800
From: Rick Holding <rholding@ActOnline.com.au>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Books
Todd Hanson wrote:
>
> Curt Hicks wrote:
>
> > Hear ! Hear ! It seems like a lot of people want more details about stuff
> > handed to them without doing even a little research.
>
> And your point is?
>
> Almost every book put out by Hero (or any gaming system for that matter) is
> something that anybody could do for themselves if they wanted to invest the
> time and do the research. Believe it or not, not everyone WANTS to spend their
> time digging through books compiling all of the obscure information that comes
> up in a game at one time or another.
>
> If I am willing to spend my money to have someone else do all of the 'boring
> work' part of running a game, who are YOU to tell me this is wrong?
>
> Personally I would LOVE a book that had basic information about the various
> things PCs might encounter.
>
> I would love to see a book that had information like:
>
> What kind of training does a standard police officer have?
>
> How about a SWAT team member? A detective? A doctor? An EMT? A Nurse? A
> surgeon?
>
> How much do each of these people get paid?
>
> What equipment is carried in an ambulance? How much can an EMT do on the
> scene?
>
> What does a standard police form look like? How about an autopsy form?
>
> What are some of the 'loopholes' that a cheesy lawyer might use to get a
> villian off 'scot free'?
>
> Just a SMALL number of the things that have come up in games that I would have
> loved to have had an easy place to check for the answers.
>
> I for one would gladly buy a book like this.
When you put it that way, it makes the book a lot more attractive.
Having things like those forms as blanks at the back for photocoping
will add a nice touch to some games.
"So, what did he die from?"
"Well, here is a copy of the autopsy report. See if you can work it
out. Its got the doctors stumped."
- --
Rick Holding
If only "common sense" was just a bit more common...
or if you prefer... You call this logic ?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:22:46 EST
From: SteveL1979@aol.com
Subject: Autopsy Forms
<< "So, what did he die from?"
"Well, here is a copy of the autopsy report. See if you can work it
out. Its got the doctors stumped." >>
I have some autopsy forms I use for just this purpose in Dark Champions
games. They focus players' attention like you wouldn't believe.
And, if done right, and accompanied by illustrations from forensic pathology
textbooks, they will keep most players from eating the snacks, leaving more
for you, the GM. }:)
Steve Long
P.S.: You can find good general info on autopsies at the Screenwriter's
Autopsy Guide: http://www.neosoft.com/~uthman/Autop.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:47:48 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
Subject: FW: Ultimate Verbosity
> > Almost every book put out by Hero (or any gaming system for that
> matter) is
> > something that anybody could do for themselves if they wanted to
> invest the
> > time and do the research. Believe it or not, not everyone WANTS to
> spend their
> > time digging through books compiling all of the obscure information
> that comes
> > up in a game at one time or another.
>
> Sure, this is absolutely right. My view on the whole matter is this.
> Hero is not a big game company. It can't do the Steve Jackson thing
> and pump out a new supplement every 30 days for wide release, right?
> Given that restriction, combined with the fact that there are a lot of
> people who run games with Hero that deal with Genres where this stuff
> wouldn't be relevant suggests that there are other subjects to
> consider.
>
> I'm eagerly awaiting Broken Kingdoms, since there has never been a
> campaign book for Fantasy Hero. As a GM of a FH game, I do enough
> extra work to generate my own FH companion (hmmmm.... not a bad idea).
>
>
> See, I really liked the UMA because I could apply the material to my
> own campaign, despite the fact that it's not intended as an FH
> supplement in any way. Three out of my four players are using a custom
> martial arts style. It helps to flush out the flavour of their
> cultures. General books like this are good for FM's running all kinds
> of games, thus selling more books for Hero and hopefully improving
> games of all genres.
>
> So, here's my point. Once Hero has a nice set of well rounded
> supplements that could be useful to people running all kinds of
> different campaigns, then get specialized. A supplement that tells you
> everything about a police department would be very useful for people
> running a modern day campaign, supers or otherwise, but it's of no use
> to me or a lot of other people. There are plenty of Hero supplements
> for supers games of all flavours but I'm still writing up my own
> monsters, traps, spells, herbs and magic items. Dig? I'm not asking
> for The Ultimate Guilde Assassin or The Ultimate Necromancer here but
> some extra tasty bits that are usable in my game would be just yummy.
>
> Pardon my rant. I was trying to respond to most of the weekend's posts
> on this subject all at once.
>
> Later Days
> BRI
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:17:30 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Autopsy Forms
At 07:22 AM 11/23/98 EST, SteveL1979@aol.com wrote:
><< "So, what did he die from?"
> "Well, here is a copy of the autopsy report. See if you can work it
> out. Its got the doctors stumped." >>
>
> I have some autopsy forms I use for just this purpose in Dark Champions
>games. They focus players' attention like you wouldn't believe.
Just the sort of thing that a Legal Professional or Medical Professional
sourcebook should have. :-]
> And, if done right, and accompanied by illustrations from forensic
pathology
>textbooks, they will keep most players from eating the snacks, leaving more
>for you, the GM. }:)
This reminds me of my favorite shot from the opening sequence of "The
Commish" (the title character is eating a sandwich while reading a book on
"Human Tissue Decomposition").
>P.S.: You can find good general info on autopsies at the Screenwriter's
>Autopsy Guide: http://www.neosoft.com/~uthman/Autop.html
There's something else to go into my "Make a Bookmark" file. :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:04:41 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Books
>My point is that if it's obscure information than what difference does it
>make how accurate it is ?
True enough.
>> If I am willing to spend my money to have someone else do all of the
'boring
>> work' part of running a game, who are YOU to tell me this is wrong?
>>
>It's NOT wrong. But would you rather spend money on products related to
>'mundane' / real world information that you can research for yourself or on
>the creative stuff like plots / organizations / characters etc. etc. ?
I'd rather have a source that gives me real world information in game form
than have the creative stuff, IF I ran games set in the real world, which I
rarely do. The creative stuff I can come up with on my own, out of my own
fevered imagination or plagarized for my own amusement, and will almost
certainly be more satisfied with the results I come up with than what
another writer would. Ideally, I would like both, though.
Still, it's possible to get too bogged down in detail. Also, a lot of this
information can be gotten out of San Angelo, so it may not be necessary to
do it again.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:46:28 -0600
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Autopsy Forms
There's also the Writers' Guide book, CAUSE OF DEATH.
- ----------
> From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
> To: Hero Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
> Subject: Re: Autopsy Forms
> Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 11:17 AM
>
> At 07:22 AM 11/23/98 EST, SteveL1979@aol.com wrote:
> ><< "So, what did he die from?"
> > "Well, here is a copy of the autopsy report. See if you can work it
> > out. Its got the doctors stumped." >>
> >
> > I have some autopsy forms I use for just this purpose in Dark
Champions
> >games. They focus players' attention like you wouldn't believe.
>
> Just the sort of thing that a Legal Professional or Medical
Professional
> sourcebook should have. :-]
>
> > And, if done right, and accompanied by illustrations from forensic
> pathology
> >textbooks, they will keep most players from eating the snacks, leaving
more
> >for you, the GM. }:)
>
> This reminds me of my favorite shot from the opening sequence of "The
> Commish" (the title character is eating a sandwich while reading a book
on
> "Human Tissue Decomposition").
>
> >P.S.: You can find good general info on autopsies at the Screenwriter's
> >Autopsy Guide: http://www.neosoft.com/~uthman/Autop.html
>
> There's something else to go into my "Make a Bookmark" file. :-]
> ---
> Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
> Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:27:28 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
Subject: RE: FW: Ultimate Verbosity
> > So, here's my point. Once Hero has a nice set of well rounded
> > > supplements that could be useful to people running all kinds of
> > > different campaigns, then get specialized.
>
> Or ... we could do something different. As much as I love Champions,
> and
> would like to keep it going forever and ever, there's no reason to
> sourcebooks
> published by other companies. There has been discussion about map
> books
> lately. Let's talk about other subjects, and what sourcebooks would
> be good
> for a gm to use, and which they might want to avoid.
>
> Pick a subject and a book. Why or why not?
>
> I'll start... My subject is time travel and the best book I've read on
> the
> subject in regard to gaming is Gurps Time Travel. Why? Well, in
> addition to
> a couple of good campaign ideas, this book contains articles on What
> to Pack,
> Time Traveling Character Ideas, Gunpowder (How to make it, and how it
> can
> change the future), travel by machine, psi powers, and other ways,
> parallel
> worlds and dimensions, dealing with paradoxes, and all kinds of Time
> travel
> stuff. It is also very easy to adapt to the Hero system, and the book
> even
> has a campaign set up sheet.
>
> Mike Leuszler
[Brian Wawrow] Well, I haven't read GURPS Time Travel but I can
see that kind of element entering into my FH game down the road. Time
Travel is one of those plot elements that can slide into any game that
supports weirdness. I would use a high powered mage or magic item with
knowledge of the super secret sphere of time magic. Likewise you can use
alien technology, wormhole/hyperspace phenomena, a steampunk time tunnel
with huge spinning magnets, basic mutant abilities, whatever. TSR has a
book called The Chronomancer which is a little goofy but not bad.
I'm more interested in the extradimentional stuff. There has
been a lot of material published by TSR and some other companies dealing
with dimension hopping. The problem I have with most of it is that other
dimensions just look like earth with weird topography and/or creatures.
I'd like to see other dimensions that are so mind-bendingly weird that
the PC's feel totally lost and don't know how to cope. For instance, the
discussion about the guy with negative vision. Suppose the PC's went to
a dimension where there was no EM radiation at all. Radar, vision and
magnets would be irrelevant. That would be a lot nastier than a big cave
with devils poking people with pitchforks, wouldn't it?
So there's my new question. What have you done or could you do
to reflect a world where at least one fundamental principal of reality
was changed? How could you do it and not just swallow your PC's whole
but give them a chance to deal with it?
Later
BRI
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:23:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Hayden <mhayden@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: Autopsy Forms
On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Guy Hoyle wrote:
> There's also the Writers' Guide book, CAUSE OF DEATH.
Can someone please verify that my messages are reaching the list? I listed
off the entire Writer's Digest Howdunit Series last week in response to
this thread, but they've been mentioned half a dozen times since then, as
if I'd never said a word. I fear we are needlessly running this into the
ground...
Thanks.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Michael "Doc" Hayden -- mhayden@tsoft.com -- http://tsoft.com/~mhayden/
Hey, I use Procmail (with Spam Bouncer), so spam away! (^_^)
"What you are about to see is real. These are not actors; they're directors."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:00:22 -0800
From: "Hilary" <kabuki@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Books
> >It's NOT wrong. But would you rather spend money on products related to
> >'mundane' / real world information that you can research for yourself or
on
> >the creative stuff like plots / organizations / characters etc. etc. ?
If you want to find creative stuff such as plots, etc., look no further
then your local comic book store. Most have quarter bins filled with old
beat-up books bubbling with plots and character your players are most
likely to have never seen. Getting a sourcebook that gives you two or
three little adventures, to me, is less helpful then a book full of info I
can use to create my own adventures. If I'm going to run, say, a Ninja
Hero game and half the people in the group have Ninja Hero, it's likely
they have already read or at least looked over the included adventures.
A problem I ran into while with a group of experienced Champions players,
was that we all knew the villains from the many Champions books out there.
So when they popped up, there wasn't much mystery or surprise. Our
characters had never run into CLOWN before, but as players we knew all the
ins-and-outs of the orginization. My point being, if you have a sourcebook
full of adventures and character write-ups, it has limitations. There's a
good chance, in a long running group(or a group with members who buy a lot
of sourcebooks themselves) that those ideas will grow stale, or at the very
least ordinary. However, if you give me a sourcebooks full of facts, full
of information on various things, I can use that to spice up the campaign
and to create new ideas. No, this information is not often vital to being
able to run a campaign, but it can be extremely helpful. Hope that made
some sort of sense.
Hil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:15:02 -0600
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Autopsy Forms
This one did, but I don't remember seeing the Howdunit list. I'm a big fan
of theirs, but I haven't looked at any new volumes in the last 5 years. If
you don't mind, if you're not reposting, would you mind sending me a copy?
thanks,
Guy
- ----------
> From: Michael Hayden <mhayden@tsoft.com>
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: Autopsy Forms
> Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 1:23 PM
>
>
> On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Guy Hoyle wrote:
>
> > There's also the Writers' Guide book, CAUSE OF DEATH.
>
> Can someone please verify that my messages are reaching the list? I
listed
> off the entire Writer's Digest Howdunit Series last week in response to
> this thread, but they've been mentioned half a dozen times since then, as
> if I'd never said a word. I fear we are needlessly running this into the
> ground...
>
> Thanks.
>
>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
~*~
> Michael "Doc" Hayden -- mhayden@tsoft.com --
http://tsoft.com/~mhayden/
> Hey, I use Procmail (with Spam Bouncer), so spam away! (^_^)
> "What you are about to see is real. These are not actors; they're
directors."
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:39:50 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Ultimate Weirdo Dimensions (was Ultimate Verbosity)
Good question, Brian--especially if you, like me, am a fan of the Steve
Ditko DR. STRANGE, how do you simulate those wacky dimensions that bore
no resemblance to reality....
One way is through randm dice rolls. I gave people in a scenario a
dimension where there were no real 'directions.--no magnetic north, no
sense of spacial cohension. Thus, when a hero wished to move, he rolled
a 6 sided to see which facing he would head off in--even though, to his
mind, he was moving forward.
"'Remember, Boo-Boo...we only have one weakness."
"What's that?"
"Bullets."
--Rat Phink and Boo-Boo, RAT PHINK A BOO BOO
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
An except from the new story "My Worst Break Up" can now be found at
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:13:18 -0500
From: "Lisa Hartjes" <beren@unforgettable.com>
Subject: Re: Autopsy Forms
<< I have some autopsy forms I use for just this purpose in Dark Champions
games. They focus players' attention like you wouldn't believe.
And, if done right, and accompanied by illustrations from forensic
pathology
textbooks, they will keep most players from eating the snacks, leaving more
for you, the GM. }:)>>
Does anyone have a set of these scanned in, or know where I can get them off
the web?
Lisa Hartjes
beren@unforgettable.com
http://roswell.fortunecity.com/daniken/79
ICQ: Berengiere (9062561)
"Evil is only victorious when Good chooses not to win."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:51:01 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Subject: CIA World Factbook (was: Re: Ultimate Books)
Hilary writes:
> least ordinary. However, if you give me a sourcebooks full of facts, full
> of information on various things, I can use that to spice up the campaign
> and to create new ideas. No, this information is not often vital to being
> able to run a campaign, but it can be extremely helpful. Hope that made
> some sort of sense.
Something that just occurred to me as a good resource is the CIA
World Fact Book. This is something the CIA put together and then was
released to the public, presumably when it was declassified(*). This
was/is a general information document about all sorts of places,
people and things all over the world.
I remember coming across various webified versions of it back in
'95-96. There might be printed copies of it available for the lotech
GMs, or you could use some sort of web script to suck the whole thing
onto a laptop, for the hi-tech GMs.
(* Any doc the U.S. government creates is by definition public domain.
Speaking of which, it would be interesting to see what else the
Government Printing Office has that might be good for Champions GMs.)
I *still* think that a generic "cliff's notes" type document on
all sorts of topics would be cool. The more I think about it, the
closer I get to starting a project. Anybody want to volunteer some
web space for it? I'll build the scripts. Preferably on a unix host
with Perl and some sort of database.
Steven J. Owens
puff@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:28:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Hayden <mhayden@tsoft.com>
Subject: Howdunit Series [REPOST]
On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Guy Hoyle wrote:
> This one did, but I don't remember seeing the Howdunit list. I'm a big
> fan of theirs, but I haven't looked at any new volumes in the last 5
> years. If you don't mind, if you're not reposting, would you mind
> sending me a copy?
Here they are, from http://www.writersdigest.com/catalog/wdbooks.asp :
"Amateur Detectives: A Writer's Guide to How Private Citizens Solve
Criminal Cases"
"Armed and Dangerous: A Writer's Guide to Weapons"
"Body Trauma: A Writer's Guide to Wounds and Injuries"
"Cause of Death: A Writer's Guide to Death, Murder & Forensic Medicine"
"Deadly Doses: A Writer's Guide to Poisons"
"Inside Hollywood: A Writer's Guide to the World of Movies and TV"
"Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Writer's Guide to Investigators and
Investigative Techniques"
"Lights & Sirens: A Writer's Guide to Emergency Rescue Professions"
"Malicious Intent: A Writer's Guide to How Murderers, Robbers, Rapists
and Other Criminals Think"
"Missing Persons: A Writer's Guide to Finding the Lost, the Abducted
and the Escaped"
"Modus Operandi: A Writer's Guide to How Criminals Work"
"Murder One: A Writer's Guide to Homicide"
"Police Procedural: A Writer's Guide to the Police and How They Work"
"Private Eyes: A Writer's Guide to Private Investigators"
"Rip-Off: A Writer's Guide to Crimes of Deception"
"Scene of the Crime: A Writer's Guide to Crime-Scene Investigations"
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Michael "Doc" Hayden -- mhayden@tsoft.com -- http://tsoft.com/~mhayden/
Hey, I use Procmail (with Spam Bouncer), so spam away! (^_^)
"What you are about to see is real. These are not actors; they're directors."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:43:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@access.digex.net>
Subject: Surbrook's Stuff to be moving
After a bit of work, I have a place for my website.
It offers me a whopping 20MB of drive space, so I will be able to upload
all sorts of material for some time before I push the limits of my page.
Expect new urls and such in a week or so.
***************************************************************************
* "'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion *
* Michael Surbrook / susano@access.digex.net *
* Visit "Surbrook's Stuff' the Hero Games resource site at: *
* http://www.access.digex.net/~susano/index.html *
* Attacked Mystification Police / AD Police / ESWAT *
* Society for Creative Anachronism / House ap Gwystl / Company of St.Mark *
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:06:37 -0600 (CST)
From: Rick Jones <rick@blkbox.com>
Subject: looking for Houston TX gamers
My Champions game could use 1-2 new players. Please email me privately for
more info.
We live in HOuston, Tx, but the game is set in San Angelo.
- --
Rick Jones Let's see. Powers going nuts on me, scary nightmares that
rick@blkbox.com make no sense, psychic weirdos foretelling my doom, and a
perpetually annoyed mother... Yep, I must be a super hero.
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/ --Speedball, New Warriors #65
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:09:55 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Professional Books (was Ultimate Books)
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
>At 10:15 AM 11/22/98 -0800, Hilary wrote:
>>
>>> So in conclusion, I'd vote FOR any "Ultimate _ _ _ _" book
>>> that came down the pipe (either paper or electronic_,
>>> because you never know...
>>
>>So you'd vote for Ultimate Lumberjack? Ultimate Invalids? Ultimate
>>Narcoleptics? Hero has few enough sourcebooks as it is, maybe Ultimate
Fry
>>Cook could be near the bottom of the list?
>
> You're thinking in too narrow terms. We don't have The Ultimate Kung Fu
>Master, because that fits into The Ultimate Martial Artist. From your
>list, Invalids and Narcoleptics would probably be in a Medical Professional
>book, while Fry Cooks could fit into a Hospitality Professional book. (I'm
>not sure where to fit Lumberjacks into.)
The Ultimate Outdoorsman. Includes Rangers (both types<g>), Druids,
frontiersmen, and others who live or work in nature.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:56:53 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: FW: Ultimate Verbosity
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
<snip>
> I'm more interested in the extradimentional stuff. There has
>been a lot of material published by TSR and some other companies dealing
>with dimension hopping. The problem I have with most of it is that other
>dimensions just look like earth with weird topography and/or creatures.
>I'd like to see other dimensions that are so mind-bendingly weird that
>the PC's feel totally lost and don't know how to cope. For instance, the
>discussion about the guy with negative vision. Suppose the PC's went to
>a dimension where there was no EM radiation at all. Radar, vision and
>magnets would be irrelevant. That would be a lot nastier than a big cave
>with devils poking people with pitchforks, wouldn't it?
Could be. One effect is that, without radiating IR, the PC's may find
themselves overheated soon. That, combined with blindness, could be a
serious problem, especially if something else is going on.
> So there's my new question. What have you done or could you do
>to reflect a world where at least one fundamental principal of reality
>was changed? How could you do it and not just swallow your PC's whole
>but give them a chance to deal with it?
Depends upon the alternate universe. Simply changing the large-scale
geometry is far and away the easiest, but this is essentially the same as
changing the geography. Changing many other things results in various
problems, many that would be quickly or instantly fatal, if you care about
the actual physics.
Here's some possibilities:
Reversed entropy: Entire universe runs backwards. If the players are also in
reversed entropy, they don't even realize there's a problem, since they are
also going backwards. Of course, this then begs the question: "Doesn't that
mean that as we enter, we travel backwards and leave?":)
Change the laws of thermodynamics: For example, instead of having heat
travel from hotter objects to cooler ones, have heat travel from cooler
objects to hotter ones. The players get hotter and hotter, and the more they
try to cool, the faster they heat up. Lava, however, will freeze them solid.
How such a world could exist and resemble anything remotely normal is left
as an exercise for the student. (Clue: Maybe it works fine for everyone
else.)
Negative Gravity: If it works normally for everyone else, then the players
get shot into space. If it doesn't, then all particles are scattered
randomly throughout the dimension. Either way, can anyone say "Does not
breathe; Immune to vacuum/high pressure"?
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:22:14 -0700
From: Curtis A Gibson <mhoram@relia.net>
Subject: Re: FW: Ultimate Verbosity
Filksinger wrote:
>
> From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
>
> <snip>
> > I'm more interested in the extradimentional stuff. There has
> >been a lot of material published by TSR and some other companies dealing
> >with dimension hopping. The problem I have with most of it is that other
> >dimensions just look like earth with weird topography and/or creatures.
> >I'd like to see other dimensions that are so mind-bendingly weird that
> >the PC's feel totally lost and don't know how to cope. For instance, the
> >discussion about the guy with negative vision. Suppose the PC's went to
> >a dimension where there was no EM radiation at all. Radar, vision and
> >magnets would be irrelevant. That would be a lot nastier than a big cave
> >with devils poking people with pitchforks, wouldn't it?
>
> Could be. One effect is that, without radiating IR, the PC's may find
> themselves overheated soon. That, combined with blindness, could be a
> serious problem, especially if something else is going on.
>
> > So there's my new question. What have you done or could you do
> >to reflect a world where at least one fundamental principal of reality
> >was changed? How could you do it and not just swallow your PC's whole
> >but give them a chance to deal with it?
>
> Depends upon the alternate universe. Simply changing the large-scale
> geometry is far and away the easiest, but this is essentially the same as
> changing the geography. Changing many other things results in various
> problems, many that would be quickly or instantly fatal, if you care about
> the actual physics.
>
> Here's some possibilities:
>
> Reversed entropy: Entire universe runs backwards. If the players are also in
> reversed entropy, they don't even realize there's a problem, since they are
> also going backwards. Of course, this then begs the question: "Doesn't that
> mean that as we enter, we travel backwards and leave?":)
For a really enjoyable romp through a world with reversed entropy (sort
of) read the Practice Effect by David Brinn. Fun novel. Not real deep,
and not as complex as most of his stuff but fun.
- -Mhoram
- --
What is called glory, I think, is mostly the relief you feel after
you've fought and lived through battle without getting maimed.
- -Harry Turtledove Krispos Rising
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:26:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven J. Owens" <puff@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Ultimate Verbosity
Curtis A Gibson writes:
> Filksinger wrote:
> > From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
> > > I'm more interested in the extradimentional stuff. There has
> > > [...]
> > Depends upon the alternate universe. Simply changing the large-scale
> > geometry is far and away the easiest, but this is essentially the same as
> > changing the geography. Changing many other things results in various
> > problems, many that would be quickly or instantly fatal, if you care about
> > the actual physics.
That's the crux of it; if you're going to start mucking with
things in a serious way, you either have to postulate some loophole or
kill the characters off immediately. One pretty good interdimensional
campaign I was in - not champions, a homegrown and very loose system -
the GM developed and applied certain (warped) rules of logic that
dimensional travel worked under. The new universe would not let
something enter it that contradicted its laws of physics, hence it
modified anything incoming. This made adjustments to the traveller's
physiology, sometimes minor, sometimes major.
It also made adjustments to the items the travellers were
carrying, which tended to be problematic for mid-range complexity
systems. Simple systems (cloth, for example) could survive the
changes functionally intact. Complex systems (e.g. things approaching
organic complexity) would have enough redundancy in them that the
adaptation process would usually keep them functional. Anything
in between - like guns, or conventional electronics - tended to
have problems.
The GM also postulated that the dimension-travelling societies
(there were several major societies in the game that used dimension
travel, some tech, some magic, some psionic) developed a loose system
of categorizing dimensions depending on how much the aggregate minute
changes wreaked havoc with technology, magic, spacetime, etc.
Games like TORG are interesting in trying to come up with more
general rule structures for dealing with things; in TORG (anybody who
actually spent any amount of time with the game can feel free to leap
in and correct me here) the game assumes that dimensional differences
are fundamentally philospohical in nature - if one assumes that the
philosophical differences can have very real impact on the world. TORG
had a system of "axioms" that each dimension had, some of which
affected each other, some of which didn't.
> For a really enjoyable romp through a world with reversed entropy (sort
> of) read the Practice Effect by David Brinn. Fun novel. Not real deep,
> and not as complex as most of his stuff but fun.
I didn't like the Practice Effect, as it was a bit too
pseudomagical. Magic is one thing, science another, but science that
works like magic (i.e. "It just does, it's magic.") and magic that's
amenable to scientific method (as opposed to "magic" that's merely
scientific principles heretofore-unknown to us) both bore me.
> What is called glory, I think, is mostly the relief you feel after
> you've fought and lived through battle without getting maimed.
> -Harry Turtledove Krispos Rising
Heinlein said it first and said it better (of course he was probably
stealing from somebody else - Mark Twain?): "An adventure is somebody
else, a long way off, going through hell."
Steven J. Owens
puff@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:36:18 EST
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Subject: Re: Ultimate Books
> When you put it that way, it makes the book a lot more
>attractive.
>Having things like those forms as blanks at the back for photocoping
>will add a nice touch to some games.
>
> "So, what did he die from?"
> "Well, here is a copy of the autopsy report. See if you can work it
>out. Its got the doctors stumped."
Now *that* would be fun! I'll buy it!
Leah
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:07:36 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Professional Books (was Ultimate Books)
At 05:09 PM 11/23/98 -0800, Filksinger wrote:
>From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
>>(I'm not sure where to fit Lumberjacks into.)
>
>The Ultimate Outdoorsman. Includes Rangers (both types<g>), Druids,
>frontiersmen, and others who live or work in nature.
Or, perhaps, the Outdoors Professional (since that's the line title I'm
suggesting).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:53:34 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Autopsy Forms
At 11:23 AM 11/23/98 -0800, Michael Hayden wrote:
>
>On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Guy Hoyle wrote:
>
>> There's also the Writers' Guide book, CAUSE OF DEATH.
>
>Can someone please verify that my messages are reaching the list? I listed
>off the entire Writer's Digest Howdunit Series last week in response to
>this thread, but they've been mentioned half a dozen times since then, as
>if I'd never said a word. I fear we are needlessly running this into the
>ground...
>
>Thanks.
Actually, this is only the second thing I've gotten so far with your
name on it (the first being your response to the "need loser villain"
thread).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:18:14 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Books
At 12:00 PM 11/23/98 -0800, Hilary wrote:
> ....My point being, if you have a sourcebook
>full of adventures and character write-ups, it has limitations. There's a
>good chance, in a long running group(or a group with members who buy a lot
>of sourcebooks themselves) that those ideas will grow stale, or at the very
>least ordinary. However, if you give me a sourcebooks full of facts, full
>of information on various things, I can use that to spice up the campaign
>and to create new ideas. No, this information is not often vital to being
>able to run a campaign, but it can be extremely helpful. Hope that made
>some sort of sense.
Perfect sense. In fact, this is exactly what I'm looking for in a
Professional book -- or, for that matter, a geographic sourcebook. :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:10:34 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CIA World Factbook (was: Re: Ultimate Books)
At 12:51 PM 11/23/98 -0800, Steven J. Owens wrote:
> Something that just occurred to me as a good resource is the CIA
>World Fact Book. This is something the CIA put together and then was
>released to the public, presumably when it was declassified(*). This
>was/is a general information document about all sorts of places,
>people and things all over the world.
>
> I remember coming across various webified versions of it back in
>'95-96. There might be printed copies of it available for the lotech
>GMs, or you could use some sort of web script to suck the whole thing
>onto a laptop, for the hi-tech GMs.
I've seen these printed up at the local public library. I've also seen
similar world information documents printed up by the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-Day Saints; the two sets of documents together give a
pretty clear view of any given country.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #51
****************************
Web Page created by Text2Web v1.3.6 by Dev Virdi
http://www.virdi.demon.co.uk/
Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 03:53 PM