Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 62
Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 2:11 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #62
champ-l-digest Thursday, December 3 1998 Volume 01 : Number 062
In this issue:
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Looser Villians
Re: OT:Looking for KISS Movie
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Video Camera
Re: Independent Limitation
Article on Canada (fwd)
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
Emma Peel of the 'Avengers' TV show
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Posting Characters?
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: A new player in the arena...
Re: OT:Looking for KISS Movie
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Emma Peel of the 'Avengers' TV show
squeezing damage
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: OT:Looking for KISS Movie
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Posting Characters?
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Independent Limitation
Unfinished Power Set!
Re: Posting Characters?
CHAR: Tao-pie-pie
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:30:47 -0600
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
- ----- Original Message -----
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
>Indeed it is: it's under Dispel. Third paragraph, it must exceed the
>total active points in the item (no mean feat in some cases), in which
>case the item is broken and cannot be fixed.
>
>Thanks for keeping it honest.
>
>JAJ, GP
No, the only mention under Dispel refers to Independent powers placed in
items or objects. This does not necessarily include Independent powers
placed on people or places unless you interpret that to be the same thing.
Which you shouldn't because item and object only comprises one-third of the
noun possibilities. "A noun is a person, place or thing." :-)
Alan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:33:53 -0500
From: "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net>
Subject: Re: Looser Villians
>Captain Queezy
> Has superleap, flight and the like but gets severe motion sickness.
For more about motion sickness, check out
http://www.haymaker.org/haym18i.html.
Dave Mattingly
http://haymaker.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 06:59:43 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Re: OT:Looking for KISS Movie
KISS MEETS THE PHANTOM OF THE PARK, and you can find it in the deepest,
darkest corner of Hell--I think it's looooong out of print on video, and
was really, really awful.
"'Remember, Boo-Boo...we only have one weakness."
"What's that, Rat Fink?"
"mmmmm.....Bullets."
--Rat Fink and Boo-Boo, RAT FINK A BOO BOO
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
An except from the new story "My Worst Break Up" can now be found at
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 12:03:05 -0600
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
On 12/3/98, at 12:16 AM, James Jandebeur wrote:
>> That was, in fact, what was on my mind. Speaking personally, and I
>> know this is atypical, I'd tend to use Independent for things that
>> could be stolen that the GM wasn't under any obligation to return. It
>> adds a certain edge knowing that your points don't have plot immunity.
>
>That's precisely right. However, if the game goes on for any length of
>time and none of those items laying around with their -2 limitations
>never get permanently lost, it loses its edge. So again, you're going to
>end up with either leaving them a -2 limitation that doesn't limit them,
>or they are going to lose some of those points. It would be difficult at
>best to play up this limitation to the extent indicated by the points
>saved (unless it's a minor item) without it being lost.
However, getting the items back can generate some tension and, with some luck, some excellent roleplaying. Generally speaking, though, any player that putsmajor portion of their real points into Independant powers deserves exactly what Sauron got.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 11:58:59 -0600
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Video Camera
Elegant, but it fails to reproduce the effect I was going for. The television transmission (which is covered under HRRH) can be picked up by any appropriate receiver, not just a designated one.
Guy
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 12/2/98, at 11:42 PM, Capt. Spith wrote:
>Michael Sprague wrote:
>>
>> Consider a creative use of Mind Link.
>>
>> ~ Mike
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Guy Hoyle <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
>> To: champs-l@sysabend.org <champs-l@sysabend.org>
>> Date: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 6:12 AM
>> Subject: Video Camera
>>
>> >I have an android who can transmit whatever he sees and hears to a suitable
>> >receiver; in other words, he's a TV transmitter. Any idea how to represent
>> >this power in HS terms? Eidetic memory obviously plays a part, but I can't
>> >figure out if Clairsentience fits in somehow.
>> >
>> >Guy
>
> Depending on what/where you wish the receiver to be, here's an
>elegant solution; Mind Link to an AI Computer with Eidetic Memory.
>
>--
> -Reverend Spith
>"I used to be a heathen, but then I saw the Light. Now I'm a pagan"
>
>-Anonymous
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:30:42 -0600
From: "J. Alan Easley" <alaneasley@email.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
- ----- Original Message -----
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
To: HERO System List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 1:24 AM
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
>> It causes a character to act differently. Losing the item is so
important
>> that they can be placed in situations where they will be at a
disadvantage
>> tactically. Granted that better fits the definition of a Psy Lim, but
still
>> true.
>
>
>As you say, better a Psych Lim, like, "Obsessed with keeping item".
>Still not really worth the -2 and not what the limitation says, though.
>
>JAJ, GP
The limitation does not say that the power *will* be taken away simply that
it *can*. The limitation is defined as a possibility of loss not an
actuality of future loss. Any result of that possibility is therefore part
of the limitation. The actuality is not part of the limitation just a
result of the possibility. The GMs ability to put the player in sticky
situation concerning the power is just another result of the possibility and
is no more or less a part of the limitation than the actual losing of the
power.
Neither does the limitation say that these powers are necessarily in
objects. Not only do Independent powers not have to be placed in a focus,
but if they *are* placed in a focus they get a focus limitation in addition
to the Independent limitation.
Example: I'd swear I had Independent Eidetic Memory, at one time, . It was
part of my brain. I still have my brain but I have lost the Eidetic Memory
probably from repeated exposure to alcohol and Father Time.
The player and the GM should decide upon a reasonable set of circumstances
that would provide for the destruction or loss of Independent powers that
aren't placed in things but in people. If an agreement can't be reached the
GM can always disallow the taking of the Independent limitation.
Independent powers placed on places are specifically mentioned as not being
destroyed unless the place was destroyed. That, however, can be interpreted
many ways. One extreme interpretation would be that the area must actually
be destroyed, that the area must be removed from the space-time continuum.
A more reasonable interpretation is that any structures must be blown up and
significant damge to the ground must occur if the place is actually
ground-based.
The point is that Independent powers can be interesting and useful even in a
Supers-level game. More common in a Heroic-level, sure, but if the entire
spectrum of possiblilities for Independent powers are explored, you can use
it in almost any game. I understand if a fledgling character in a supers
game doesn't want to initially take such a limitation especially not on a
major power. But, howzabout later in a game? After three or four years, or
like in my game after 15 years? Might not characters have accumulated an
excess of points and couldn't they use those points to build bases that have
permanent but independent effects? Couldn't they use Independent to buy
powers that would add to their abilities or allow them to circumvent
weaknesses that were originally inherent in the character? Weaknesses that
didn't cripple them before and won't cripple them again if they lose the
Independent power?
Finally, if you don't feel the Independent limitation is exactly worth a -2,
then you are free to change it in your own game either up or down.
Limitations are always variable depending on how a game is run. I agree
that if you are going to force the loss of an Independent power that a -2 is
not enough. I agree that if you are not going to force the loss and you
also aren't going to put the player into situations where he is either
going to do something different than what he would want to do or lose the
power that -2 is too much of a limitation. But the same applies to any
limitation. If you, the GM, doesn't arrange for the limitation to come up
it isn't worth *any* points. How much of a limitation would 'doesn't work
against yellow' be if the GM never sent any yellow stuff your way? Of
course, if the GM doesn't feel that he can properly exploit a limitation or
disadvantage for that matter he shouldn't allow the taking of it, not claim
that the limitation or disadvantage is bogus.
Sorry for the long-windedness.
Alan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:04:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: Article on Canada (fwd)
Hmmm... considering all the talk we have had about Canada recently, this
seems proper...
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>From _The Onion_, http://www.theonion.com
Perky "Canada" Has Own Government, Laws
It's Monday morning, and Toronto resident Steve Dorman shares a
quick breakfast of "eggs" (a native food) with his "wife" (an
officially state-sanctioned mate), and discusses yesterday's poor
showing by the hometown team in "baseball" (a popular local sport).
After a kiss on his wife's cheek, he hops on the "subway train" (a
mode of subterranean transport) to the office.
This is life in exotic Canada City, the capital set deep in the
heart of the mysterious land known as Canada (pronounced CAN-a-da).
Like his estimated 35,000 fellow countrymen, Dorman is proud to
be a "Canadian." Located 120 miles north of Buffalo, NY, Canada is,
according to Dorman, "a nation with a government and laws distinct
from those of the United States." It also has a military, a system of
taxation, and periodic free elections to select political leaders. It
even has its own currency, says Dorman, various denominations of
"dollars" that can be exchanged for the many products manufactured in
Canada, including Canadian bacon and ice.
Canada City, Canada's largest community, is located in a place
called a "province," a subdivision not unlike the cantons of
Switzerland. There are 10 Canadian provinces in all, from Nova Scotia
in the east to British Columbia in the west. And, much like America's
states, nearly every one of the provinces has its own capital. But
make no mistake--there's nothing provincial about these provinces.
Canada has both feet planted firmly in the 20th century.
"In fact, Canadians enjoy advancements such as refrigerated
food, zippers and printing," notes Dorman, an "accountant" who goes to
work wearing the comfortable trousers, dress shirt and necktie that
form a traditional Canadian costume. "Our industries are large and
varied, ranging from logging to automobile manufacturing."
Not too shabby for a nation that just 240 years ago had no
electricity.
Canada City
One area in which Canada certainly has the U.S. beat is languages.
Canadians speak not only English, but also French. In fact, according
to Prime Minister (roughly Canada's equivalent of a president) Jean
Chrétien, "French is the primary language in some parts of the
country, and English is in others. The national language question has
divided our nation terribly, with Quebec even recently threatening to
leave the union."
Canada has produced many prominent people who have gone on to
great success in hockey. Among them is Colorado Avalanche goaltender
Patrick Roy, who says hockey is the "national sport" of the Canadianers.
"It's in our blood, it's part of our heritage, and it brings
people together," he says of the sport Canada picked up from America
in the late '50s. So appreciative is Canada, it even has hockey teams
called the "Oilers" and "Jets," named after its favorite American
football teams.
Despite the language problem and other difficulties, at least
one Canadianer is optimistic about his country's prospects in the new
millennium.
"Canada will remain free, proud and strong in the new century,"
says Dorman, heading off for another day of what in Canada is known as
"work." "Our nation will continue to be a beacon to those throughout
the world who value liberty, dignity and human rights."
Aww, isn't that cute? At times like this, there's really only
one thing left to say: Oh, Canada!
Did You Know...
...that Canada is known as the "Maple Leaf State"?
...that in Canadian Units, Canada is actually a larger land mass than
the U.S.?
...that murder is illegal in Canada?
...that the province of Saskatchewan was mentioned in a song in _The
Muppet Movie_?
...that the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) also mentions
Canada in several clauses?
...that Canadians have evolved with a fully functioning pancreas?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:20:55 EST
From: Leuszler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
In a message dated 12/2/98 9:54:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ratinox@peorth.gweep.net writes:
> Read the description; do not assume what it means based on the name,
> because most of the time you will guess badly.
>
I did read the description... That's why I'm asking...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:19:31 EST
From: Leuszler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
In a message dated 12/2/98 9:45:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, james@javaman.to
writes:
> Comic book example of why Foci are generally not Independent: Iron Man has
> had his armor destroyed on multiple occasions. This leaves him helpless for
> a time. Also, he has been caught and attacked while not wearing the armor
on
> a number of occasions, or had it stolen, or other such occurrences. If it
> was Independent, he would be a normal human being because he would have
sunk
> so many points into it that are now gone into nothingness.
So, are you saying Iron Man's armor is actually a OIF gadget pool with a
"powers only change in a lab" limitation? This sounds like independent, with
the temporary loss of power...
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:30:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
Definitely use a Zeppelin, but: Don't fill the Zeppelin with
hydrogen, use helium, sure its more expensive, but its worth it.
Remember: good zeppelins have compartmentalized envelopes and
can't be "popped" with one shot. Also the Nazis will have a supply
of patch kits.
If a player implies that the air-liner should have a sponsor logo,
painted on the side, injure their character,
If they mistakenly call it a blimp, maim their character,
If any player makes Led Zeppelin references,
kill their character.
Don't make your National Socialists incompetent.
Don't do the cliche of having a leggy beautiful blonde from the
French Resistance aid the heroes.
(Make her a short but cute Spaniard :)
Use harsh German accents for all the NPC's. (General Burkhalter!)
Re-watch Indiana Jones the week before game-time.
==
Laissez le bon pim roulez! Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 10:56:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Emma Peel of the 'Avengers' TV show
Greetings,
A friend of mine is a big Emma Peel fan.
I need assistance translating the television personality Emma Peel
to a HERO systems character.
Could anyone offer me assistance or advice as to how I may toil
and labor over this project?
- -+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+->-+-<-+-
"Fools are my theme, let satire be my song."
-Lord Byron; English Bards and Scotch Reviewers. Line 6.
- -=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-=-_=_-
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 10:02:23 EST
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
>> It's a bit odd, and to me Independent has only dubious levels of
usefulness
>> in a game anyway. What it really says is that you will someday lose
the item
>> and the associated points: otherwise, in what way is it limiting?
>
>Yeah... That's how I felt about it... But say a character's hunter stole
the
>suit, then later the suit was recovered?
Hunters can swipe foci, it doesn't need to be defined as Independent if
that's what you want to do. They might even be able to steal a power
bought OIHID, depending on the SFX. (Back when Thor was turning into the
wimpy doctor, didn't his cane [the disguised Mjollnir] get lost/stolen at
least once?)
If I developed temporary insanity and let Independent into a game (under
a character's control, I don't mind it so much for building MacGuffins),
I'd be willing to give a character a chance to recover his power armor
before the villian tossed it into a nuclear reactor. But, once it goes
in, those points are *gone*. If there were 50 points of powers (after
all limitations) built into it, the only way the character will get the
armor back is to spend another 50 points. On the other hand, let's say
some villian got hold of Defender's armor when he wasn't wearing it and
melted it down. Defender would probably be hacked, but a little time in
the lab and he'd have a brand new suit of armor that didn't cost him any
points.
Leah
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:07:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Posting Characters?
You may fire when ready, Gristly.
As far as I know, character posting is highly encouraged,
unless you post weird ones like mine.
I still can't believe I got no feedback (good, bad, indifferent)
at all from that Illuminati guy.
==
Laissez le bon pim roulez! Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 08:12:00 -0800
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
> I have used it once as ref. The players provided a big service to Odin
> by finding and returning the cask of ancient winters hence stopping the
> onset of the fimbulwinter. As reward the heroes where given gifts of
> "great" magic, (foci with independent). If they lost the items, Odin
> wasn't going to give them another.
True: I've also awarded people with Independent items. What I should
have said is that I don't require that people take the limitation when
building their characters, even in Fantasy Hero settings for magic
items. Sometimes it will be done anyway.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:43:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: A new player in the arena...
> >Rush is the best band from Canada. Ever.
> For my money, it's Men Without Hats.
You're Both Right!
Why?
Cuz Itza Matter of Opinion ;)
==
Laissez le bon pim roulez! Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:23:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT:Looking for KISS Movie
>And to make this on topic, I used Kiss as a super hero team in my
>first Champions game. Considering one of Ace's powers was the a
> ability to teleport any where, it seemed logical at the time.
If you based their powers on the comic book, could you
post them to the list? TIA.
==
Laissez le bon pim roulez! Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:36:23 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 Leuszler@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 12/2/98 6:13:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, james@javaman.to
> writes:
>
> > It's a bit odd, and to me Independent has only dubious levels of usefulness
> > in a game anyway. What it really says is that you will someday lose the
> item
> > and the associated points: otherwise, in what way is it limiting?
>
> Yeah... That's how I felt about it... But say a character's hunter stole the
> suit, then later the suit was recovered?
OK. If the suit was just a Focus, then the GM ought to let the character
recover the suit, or give those points back to the character in some other
way.
If the suit was Independant, the character loses those character points,
and the GM doesn't ever have to give them back. If he chooses to do so,
that's his business, but he ought to realize that the player is getting
twice as much limitation as OAF for something that's essentially the same
thing.
I usually don't allow Independant in superhero games, because:
1) I hate taking powers away from players permanently
2) Players hate it when you take away their powers permanently, even if
they asked for it by taking Independant.
So, to avoid bad feelings, I avoid Independant.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:13:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Hartjes <chris@ergmusic.com>
Subject: Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
On 3 Dec, Ell Egyptoid wrote:
>
> Don't make your National Socialists incompetent.
Being of German descent, I can suggest that you make sure the Nazi's are
supremely confident of their own abilities and their goals. Also make
sure that they express shock that the character they are hunting is not
volunteering to help create the new master race.
Chris Hartjes
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 08:37:06 -0800
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
> > Read the description; do not assume what it means based on the name,
> > because most of the time you will guess badly.
> >
>
> I did read the description... That's why I'm asking...
Read through Dispel. It describes what happens when an Independent item
is dispelled successfully. It does not mention the adjustment powers,
but they could reasonably do the same, I suppose. I'd probably not have
them do so, myself.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:47:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: Re: Emma Peel of the 'Avengers' TV show
On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Jason Sullivan wrote:
> Greetings,
> A friend of mine is a big Emma Peel fan.
> I need assistance translating the television personality Emma Peel
> to a HERO systems character.
> Could anyone offer me assistance or advice as to how I may toil
> and labor over this project?
http://www.otd.com/~susano/how.html
Contains a good deal of information, tips and suggestions on adaption
fictional characters to the Hero System.
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:06:21 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
Subject: squeezing damage
Hi guys,
I'm back with a question actually related to Game. If a PC's armour is
'soft' by special effect or GM decree, how do we deal with squeezing
damage. To be specific, a FH character with chain armour gets grabbed
and squeezed by a 25STR zombie. Do I give him the full DEF of the
armour? I've already instituted a rule that soft armour gives only half
protection against the Stun of normal physical attacks, should I go
further? Would it be fair to only give half DEF for BOD of normal
physical attacks as well?
I'm just trying to keep things dangerous here.
BRI
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 08:20:22 -0800
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
> However, getting the items back can generate some tension and, with some luck, some excellent roleplaying. Generally speaking, though, any player that putsmajor portion of their real points into Independant powers deserves exactly what Sauron got.
Ah, but getting the item back does not require that you risk losing the
points. A regular focus can do the same job.
Still, it is easier to role-play tension (or any other emotion) when you
feel it to some extent, so I concede the point. Which is not to say that
I've changed my mind about the Limitation, but yes, it could be used in
this way.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:34:01 -0600
From: "Michael Nunn" <mlnunn@scrtc.blue.net>
Subject: Re: OT:Looking for KISS Movie
>>And to make this on topic, I used Kiss as a super hero team in my
>>first Champions game. Considering one of Ace's powers was the a
>> ability to teleport any where, it seemed logical at the time.
>
>If you based their powers on the comic book, could you
>post them to the list? TIA.
Gee... they were first edition, hum, that sounds like a fun challenge.
And since they currently have a comic from McFarland, It may take a day or
two.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 08:41:32 -0800
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
> So, are you saying Iron Man's armor is actually a OIF gadget pool with a
> "powers only change in a lab" limitation? This sounds like independent, with
> the temporary loss of power...
That's just it: it's not a "temporary loss of power", it's a permanent
one. If it was Independent, that is. If it was Independent, he could
never rebuild his armor, because he wouldn't have the points any more.
Yes, I'd give him a gadget pool, but that's not the armor itself. The
armor is a regular old Focus (or maybe OUIHID), but it's not
Independent: each time he lost a 75+ point suit, he would be reduced by
that many points. He's lost them too many times for him to be anything
but a bawling baby now...
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:51:50 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Posting Characters?
>I still can't believe I got no feedback (good, bad, indifferent)
>at all from that Illuminati guy.
>==
>Laissez le bon pim roulez! Elliott aka Egyptoid
Hmm, I seem to have missed that one, could you send it to me by private
e-mail?
James
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 08:16:01 -0800
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
True, that's what it says. However, since we are discussing using it for
building an item, the paragraph does apply.
In addition, the original write-up for Independent was using it in items
as a focus, this is probably just a hold-over from those times. It seems
likely that it is intended for all Independent powers to work this way,
since a limitation should work the same way in all (well, almost all)
cases, and being able to side step part of it by not taking a further
limitation doesn't seem correct.
JAJ, GP
> No, the only mention under Dispel refers to Independent powers placed in
> items or objects. This does not necessarily include Independent powers
> placed on people or places unless you interpret that to be the same thing.
> Which you shouldn't because item and object only comprises one-third of the
> noun possibilities. "A noun is a person, place or thing." :-)
>
> Alan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 12:20:41 -0500
From: Mathieu Roy <matroy@abacom.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
> So, are you saying Iron Man's armor is actually a OIF gadget pool with a
> "powers only change in a lab" limitation? This sounds like independent, with
> the temporary loss of power...
Ummm... It seems to me you haven't the correct definition of Independent and Focus
in mind. The Focus limitation means you can lose the power temporarily. You need
to recover (or rebuild) the focus to regain the power, but eventually you will --
at no point cost. Iron man can thus rebuild his armor when it's stolen or
destroyed. If you add Independent, it means the power can be *permanently* lost --
ie. the points aren't coming back. If Iron Man's armor was Independent and was
destroyed, he could never rebuild it. He could build a new suit only if he had the
character points to spare.
Mathieu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 08:35:27 -0800
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
> The limitation does not say that the power *will* be taken away simply that
> it *can*.
*Sigh* We've been over this. And the emotional trauma and the other
things you mention. In a long running game, all of these things are
going to go away. The -2 is going to become less and less important as
long as the item can be recovered. The tension isn't there anymore if
you play for a year and are only threatened with the loss of the item
again and again. And if the threat is real, and happens often, you are
very likely to lose the item. If it happens often enough for it to be a
- -2, it is likely to be lost.
Again, I ask: what does this represent? Points are only important (and
maybe not even important) to players: the player is the main one
penalized by the limitation. Any focus or other power can be judged to
be taken away permanently or semi-permanently by the GM. You can walk
around with reduced power for some time, and that's up to the GM in all
cases. So what is this limitation for? Personally, I like them to limit
the character, not to be disturbing to the player.
And yes, I read your entire post. It is, indeed, up to the GM. But he
asked for our opinions of using this, in a superhero game, with a
starting character, on powered armor which I presumed was a large part
of the character. And he asked for our opinions of what is in the book,
not of our modifications to it. So I feel it perfectly appropriate, in
that context, to express my opinion of the inappropriateness of the
power. The changes I might make because I feel the limitation is bogus
are, therefore, irrelevant. Please keep it in this context, and I will
try to as well.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 08:01:21 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
At 11:24 AM 12/2/98 -0600, Guy Hoyle wrote:
>Is this spelled out in the rules, or is it just a common house rule?
>
>On 12/3/98, at 12:15 AM, Donald Tsang wrote:
>
>>Whenever you consider Independent as a limitation, remember:
>>
>>Powers bought with the Independent(-2) limitation go away when Dispelled,
>>Drained, or Suppressed to zero (or below the powers' minimum costs,
>>depending on GM), and don't come back.
I'd say it's more of an interpretation of the printed rule (and one that
I might follow, depending on the specifics of how the Dispel/Drain/Suppress
is applied).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 11:10:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Sullivan <ravanos@njcu.edu>
Subject: Unfinished Power Set!
Here's an unfinished power set I'vebeen working on for the 'unstoppable
super soldier.' He can resist pain and recover from the pain of injury
rather quickly.
+20 STUN, Only to aid in recoveries when unconcious (-1/2)
Is this legal? And if so, in what order does it recover?
34 6d6 Stun AID, 0 END (+1/2), Persistant (+1/2), Self Only (-1/2),
Only when under extreme stress or Enraged (-1/4) "Biological Resistance
Factor" SFX- Various chemicals are released in the soldier's system to
negate the debilitating effects of pain.
+ CON (straight + or Absorption)
Only for use in recoveries. This needs much elaboration.
15 Armor (15 PD, 15 ED), Ablative (-1), Does not protect against
falling damage (-1/4), Not vs. Area of Effect/Explosive attacks (-1/4),
Attacks still penetrate (-1/4), Only when under extreme stress or Enraged
(-1/4) "Biological Invulnrability"
You can nick him down, chunk by chunk. Major body trauma is very
effective in negating this power's effects.
6 +10 STR, Can only be used when character pushes his STR (-1/2),
Only when under extreme stress or Enraged (-1/4) "Biological Adrenaline
Rush"
20 +10 DEX; Only to determine who goes first and for CV (-1/4), Only
when under extreme stress or Enraged (-1/4) "Biological Adrenaline Rush"
8 +10 PRE; Only for PRE attacks (-1/4), Fear/Intimidation only
(-1/4), Only when exhibiting 'unnatural' powers (-1/2), Only when under
extreme stress or Enraged (-1/2) "Fear Factor"
It tends to get very frightening when you impale someone with a
harpoon, stick knives into his chest, and he still marches after you,
bloodied, but very upset.
9 Power Defense (15 pts.); Only to defend against Poisons and Drugs
(-1/2), Only when under extreme stress or Enraged (-1/4) "Biological
Filtration System"
12 Armor (10 PD, 10 ED) requires DEX roll (-1/2) , Not vs. Suprise,
Invisible, or "Tracking" Attacks (-1/4), Must have room to move (-1/4),
Costs END (-1/2) "Enhansed Recation Time"
23 Missile Deflection for all attacks, Reflection, only back at
attacker (20 points); Only for thrown objects (-1/2), Costs END (-1/2)
"Enhansed Reaction Time"
Any input?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 08:53:24 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Posting Characters?
At 10:47 PM 12/2/98 -0500, Glen Sprigg wrote:
>I'm wondering if it's okay to post some of the characters from my Canadian
>campaign; I've got a few hero teams, as well as some villains (including
>Invictus' private cadre). Some are adapted from Champions sourcebooks, but
>most are my own creations.
>
>Or are characters generally kept off the mailing list?
As a few others have no doubt already said by now, posted characters are
one of the staples of this List.
Post away -- and be prepared for an onslaught of criticism (constructive
and otherwise)! :-]
Incidentally, the convention is to use a Subject header of "CHAR:"
followed by the character's name, such as "CHAR: Superman".
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:20:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: CHAR: Tao-pie-pie
[speaking of characters, here is yet another member of the DBZ cast.
Enjoy!]
TAO-PIE-PIE
Val CHA Cost Roll Notes
30 STR 20 15- 1600kg; 6d6
24 DEX 42 14- OCV: 8 / DCV: 8
23 CON 26 14-
15 BODY 10 12-
15 INT 5 12- PER Roll 13-
15 EGO 10 12- ECV: 5
20 PRE 10 13- PRE Attack: 4d6
10 COM 0 11-
14 PD 8 Total: 14 PD
14 ED 9 Total: 14 ED
5 SPD 16 Phases: 3,5, 8, 10, 12
11 REC 0
46 END 0
42 STUN 0
Total Characteristics Cost: 156
Movement: Flight: 20" / 80"
Running: 8" / 16"
Superleap: 12" / 24"
Swimming: 2" / 4"
Cost Powers & Skills
Combat Training:
20 Combat Skill Levels: +4 with Hand-to-Hand
2 Martial Arts: Tsurusen-ryu; use Art with Pole Weapons, Sword
Maneuver OCV DCV Damage
4 Block +2 +2 Block, Abort
4 Bind +1 +0 50 STR Bind
4 Disarm -1 +1 50 STR Disarm
4 Dodge +0 +5 Dodge vs All, Abort
5 Kick -2 +1 12d6 Strike
4 Knee Strike +2 +0 10d6 Strike
3 Legsweep +2 -1 9d6 Strike; Target Falls
4 Punch +0 +2 10d6 Strike
8 +2 Damage Classes With Martial Arts
Ki Powers:
30 Death Blow: HKA: 2d6 (4d6 w/STR), END 3
60 Dondonpa: EB: 15d6, Gestures (-1/4), END 7
48 Missle Deflection: All Ranged Attacks, Reflect back at Caster,
+4 OCV
27 Flight: 20", x4 NCM, 0 END (+1/2), OIF: Tree-trunk or
Pillar (-1/2), Straight line only (-1/2), Stall velocity
of 80" (-1/2)
6 Running: +2" (8" total), END 2
6 Superleap: +6" (12" total), END 2
3 Enhanced Perception: +1 with all PER rolls
Background Skills:
2 Contact: Tsurusennin 11-
3 Acrobatics 14-
3 Breakfall 14-
3 Climbing 14-
2 KS: Martial World 11-
3 KS: Tsurusen-ryu 12-
2 PS: Assassin 11-
3 Stealth 14-
3 Streetwise 13-
5 WF: Common Martial Arts Weapons, Common Melee Weapons, Thrown
Spear
271 Total Powers & Skills Cost
427 Total Character Cost
100+ Disadvantages
Psychological Limitation:
15 Casual Killer (C, S)
20 Overconfidence (VC, S)
15 Vengeful (C, S)
10 Reputation: World's greatest assassin 11-
267 Experience
427 Total Disadvantage Points
Designers Notes:
Tao-pie-pie is the first really dangerous opponent Son Goku faces in
Dragonball Z. He is a master assassin who charges 1,000,000 zenii (ie.
dollars) per mission. He is initially hired by the Red Ribbon army to
kill Goku and recover several dragonballs. He defeats Goku soundly in
their first meeting (and almost *does* kill him), only to fall victim to
his own overconfidence (and a miss-thrown hand grenade) in the pair's
second fight.
Later, Tenshinhan meets Tao-pie-pie in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. We
find out that he is Tsurusennin's brother, and determined to kill
Tenshinhan for daring to leave Tsurusennin's organization. After a short
(and nasty fight), Tenshinhan defeats Tao-pie-pie. In the manga series,
that is the last we see of either Tsurusennin or Tao-pie-pie, but in the
anime series, he shows up one more time, right before the Cell game.
Description:
Tao-pie-pie is of average height, with a lean, but strong build. He has a
mustache and keeps his hair tied back in a tight braid. Tao-pie-pie wears
a black shirt and trousers, with a men's cheong san over it. In the back
of this over-tunic is the words "KILL YOU".
As a cyborg, Tao-pie-pie has mechanical eyes (that look like night-vision
goggles) and mechanical hands. He also had a blade built into one arm and
an energy cannon built into the other.
Powers Notes:
Tao-pie-pie is a strong, powerful fighter. He is very skilled in
hand-to-hand fighting, and can kill a man with one finger (or even his
tongue). He is capable of launching a devastating Dondonpa blast,
slapping aside missile attacks (and even reflecting some back) and leaping
great distances. His flight power is probably his most amusing ability.
Tao-pie-pie takes a length of pillar (or tree trunk), hurls it into the
air,leaps onto the flying object and rides it to his destination.
Disadvantages Notes:
Tao-pie-pie is utterly ruthless. He will kill over the slightest insult,
and disposes of several characters in the series (including Bora, the Blue
Shogun and a tailor) without a second thought. He considers himself the
world's greatest assassin (and rightly so) and may fight an opponent with
only one finger (or some similar stunt) in order to show how good he is
(Tao-pie-pie disposes of the Blue Shogun this way, stating that he will
only use his tongue in the fight. He pokes a hole in Blue's temple with
his tongue...). Tao-pie-pie doesn't take kindly to loosing (or traitors),
either. Finally, he isn't above cheating to further his own ends.
(Tao-pie-pie created by Akira Toriyama, character sheet created by Michael
Surbrook)
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #62
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