Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 64
Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 9:12 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #64
champ-l-digest Thursday, December 3 1998 Volume 01 : Number 064
In this issue:
Re: Unfinished Power Set!
Re: squeezing damage
Re: squeezing damage
Re: Posting Characters?
The Canadian Shield
Re: Unfinished Power Set!
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
Re: Article on Canada (fwd)
Re: squeezing damage
Re: squeezing damage
RE: Independent Limitation
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: squeezing damage
Re: Unfinished Power Set!
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: squeezing damage
Re: CHAR: Kulilin
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Independent Limitation
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:48:28 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Unfinished Power Set!
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
>On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Jason Sullivan wrote:
<snip>
>
>> 8 +10 PRE; Only for PRE attacks (-1/4), Fear/Intimidation only
>> (-1/4), Only when exhibiting 'unnatural' powers (-1/2), Only when under
>> extreme stress or Enraged (-1/2) "Fear Factor"
>
>Uhm... no. That should be +10 PRE, Defensive Only (-1/2), Only when under
>extreme stress or Enraged (-1/2) for 5 points. You math was very off
>there.
Uhm, no. He wanted the guy to be more frightening, not immune to fear. You
got it backwards.
>And I'm not sure that "Only when exhibiting 'unnatural' powers (-1/2)" is
>a limitation... who is exhibiting the 'unnatural' powers?
The guy with the extra Presence.
Of course, this is already covered under the rules, as "Exhibiting a power".
They need to add levels to this; a "power" could be Clinging (impressive),
or walking out of the blazing inferno after the building explodes, bouncing
the bullets fired by the police (a bit more impressive, IMHO).
<snip>
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:25:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: squeezing damage
>To be specific, a FH character with chain armour gets
>grabbed and squeezed by a 25 STR zombie. Do I give him
>the full DEF of the armour?
That's a damn good question. I'm glad it came up on the
list instead of in the heat of a game. I'm very interested in
getting some sage advice on this.
Here's my initial reaction, which I won't be offended if
someone pops this idea, but here goes: It sounds like the
SFX of your armor sound like they'd be bypassed by the SFX
of their attack. But bypassing Normal Defense is the province of
the advantage AVLD, not regular combat STR.
ie: 25 points of STR does 5 dice of damage.
but 25 points of STR with AVLD does 2 dice of damage.
But you shouldn't normally be allowed to "vary your advantage"
just because of SFX of your target. What's the verdict?
==
Laissez le bon pim roulez! Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:00:11 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: squeezing damage
>BW> I'm back with a question actually related to Game. If a PC's armour is
>BW> 'soft' by special effect or GM decree, how do we deal with squeezing
>BW> damage.
>
>Doesn't matter. If it has 10 PD it has 10 PD, unless it has a limitation
>that states otherwise.
While that's technically true, if it is a Fantasy Hero game and the players
aren't paying points for the armor, the GM is perfectly within his rights to
modify things to better suit his sense of realism. This should certainly not
be imposed on a point-purchased suit of armor without giving an appropriate
level of limitation, though, whether it's chain mail or otherwise. In fact,
it applies to NPC's and other such things as well: if the player comes up
with a clever plan to penetrate an opponents defense, it is reasonable to
give the plan a chance to work even if the powers purchased would not
technically allow it.
Never do this kind of thing to a player character without the limitations,
though.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:47:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Posting Characters?
> My only concern, and it's not with the character himself,
> per se, is that as a hero, he would not work well at all
> in a group. And as an antaganist, if he was played right,
> the group would hardly know he was there normally.
thanks for the input. he was designed after a good read through
of GURPS: Illuminati, which I highly highly recommend.
He's designed to be an agent who can't be swayed by magic, telepathy,
torture, drugs or anything. He's unswervingly loyal to do whatever
the Bavarians want right now. The concept came up after the mentalist
and magician in the JLBama could extract any secret or control any
villain with ease.
Of course, his existence in any campaign pre-supposes a lot about the
background "radiation" level of said campaign...
> What might be better is if somehow the character got involved
> in the civilian lives of your characters well in advance of
> any scenario directly involving him.
Yes, he can't be a hero. at best he could be GDI (g*d-d*mn independent,
neither good nor evil) but at worst he could be a good hunter for a
batman style hero. Or a character's girlfriend could turn out to be
his fake wife. Or he could be suspected of sabotage at the shipyard,
etc...
You really have to put a lot of thought into how the Illuminati concepts
would fit into a Super world. I don't want to think about Cthulhians
with
access to Major Transforms...
==
Laissez le bon pim roulez! Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:15:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Glen Sprigg <borealis@cois.on.ca>
Subject: The Canadian Shield
This is an overview of the primary hero team in Canada: a
government-sponsored team with widespread connections and influence.
Originally, I created the Canadian Shield as a single hero, but the
parallels with Captain America were far too blatant. So I changed the
concept to a team, and created a bunch of heroes to fill it out. I will
freely admit to being influenced by Alpha Flight; an inevitable comparison,
since they are the only published Canadian heroes. DC doesn't have any that
I'm aware of.
For now I'm just doing background and info on the Canadian Shield;
individual characters will appear one at a time later.
***************************
THE CANADIAN SHIELD
EASTERN TEAM MEMBERSHIP: Arctic Fox (leader), Alouette, Huron, Mindstar,
Slapshot
WESTERN TEAM MEMBERSHIP: Mountie (leader), Chinook, Live Wire, Rad, Yukon Jack
BACKGROUND
The Canadian Shield is Canada's official paranormal protection
agency. The organization consists of a support group, trained agents, and a
team of superheroes. Although the public generally associates the name
'Canadian Shield' with the high-profile hero team, they are only a part of
the organization. They were originally headquartered in Toronto, but
recently split into two teams; half the team moved to Vancouver, the
remainder staying in Toronto. There are agent teams in Ottawa, Toronto,
Halifax, Montreal, Winnipeg, Calgary, and Vancouver.
Canada has long lagged behind the United States when it came to
superheroes. During World War II, Canada's lone hero, Mega-Man the Human
Magnet, had joined the American Liberty League, serving proudly until the
war's end. He took up residence in Toronto, and served as Canada's lone
hero for several years. He retired in the mid-1950s and has not been heard
from since.
Since then, while there were a (very) few independent heroes, for
the most paert it was American teams such as the Protectors and the
Champions who took occasional trips to the Great White North when problems
of this nature arose. Canadians did not like the thought of Americans
always coming to the rescue, but with no other options, they had no choice
but to grin and bear it.
When Borealis began his heroic career, his ability to cross the
entire country in seconds gave Canadians a new pride and made him a national
hero. But Borealis, as powerful as he was, could not do the job alone.
This was borne out by a simultaneous attack on Vancouver, Toronto and
Montreal by three separate villain teams. While Borealis dealt with the
attack on Toronto, the Champions and Protectors came to the rescue in
Montreal and Vancouver.
The government didn't like the idea of Americans saving Canadian
bacon, particularly since they couldn't count on them. But Canada had very
few homegrown heroes to answer any call, and they were too scattered to work
as a team.
A stopgap measure was devised when the Canadian Shield organization
was formed in 1991. Although devoid of paranormal powers, its members were
highly-trained, most of them being former police officers and soldiers.
These agents scored early victories against VIPER and minor villain threats,
but VIPER exacted a nasty revenge. They airlifted Grond to Edmonton, and
the resulting damage left thousands homeless and hundreds hospitalized.
Only the presence of the mutant hero Lifeline prevented any deaths. Grond
left for the Arctic, and the Canadian Shield agents (those still standing)
elected not to pursue him.
The Shield commander on the scene, Captain Forsythe, saw that many
of the local RCMP officers had gotten involved. Only one of them, Constable
Kevin MacDonald, was unhurt. Yet MacDonald had been seen by Canadian Shield
agents pulling bystanders away from the battle right in the middle of the
firefight. MacDonald did not care to explain his seeming invulnerability.
He was taken to Ottawa, where scientists determined that he was a mutant who
projected a force field around himself, which he could expand to protect
others. MacDonald, a promising RCMP officer, was immediately transferred to
the Canadian Shield organization, where he was asked to lead a team of
Canadian paranormals. MacDonald accepted, and took the code name Mountie.
The Mountie was instantly acclaimed as Canada's newest superhero,
and its finest representative (outside of Borealis). The Mountie was
immediately sent to recruit several other paranormals who had become known
to the government, but had not yet been approached for various reasons.
Borealis was not on that list; he had previously declined to work under
government supervision, preferring to work alone.
The first recruits were Yukon Jack, a teenage brick who could double
his height; Chinook, a shaman for a native tribe in Saskatchewan; and Arctic
Fox, a vigilante who operated in Toronto. Alouette was brought into the
organization at the request of a leading Member of Parliament. She needed
training to control her wings and sonic powers, and the Canadian Shield was
the best place for her to get it. Huron joined shortly after, as did the
new hero Slapshot, whose power armor and arsenal of trick pucks added a lot
to the team's versatility in combat. The organization was expanded to six
agent teams and a strong support staff.
The team's first official mission took them to the East Coast, where
a submarine commander frmo the former Soviet Union was attempting to start
World War III. The team managed to get onto the submarine, and the
commander initially attempted to deceive them into believing that he and his
crew were defecting. The team quickly discerned the truth, however, and
defended themselves from the sub's crew. The New Guard, Eastern Europe's
primary hero team, appeared on the scene and attacked the Canadians. The
Mountie did his best to defuse the situation, and the battle did not last
long. The New Guard, impressed with the Canadian Shield team, wished them
luck in defending their land. They then took the submarine and its renegade
crew back to Russia. The team's success was trumpeted on the front page of
every newspaper in the country, and they became an instant success.
Over the next few months the team grew in experience, handling
themselves against various enemies, both foreign and domestic. After a
battle with Master Stroke, however, Arctic Fox took a leave of absence. She
had been badly injured, and felt that she was a liability to the team. She
moved into the support section, where she worked as a geneticist while she
recovered from her injuries.
The team's most recent victories over such international menaces as
Villains International and Terror, Incorporated, as well as a tremendous
battle in the far North with Dr. Destroyer, served only to enhance the
team's reputation. Arctic Fox rejoined the team, and new members were
added; Rad, an alien soldier guarding a princess in exile; Nautilus, a woman
who had been used for experiments in a secret lab; Live Wire, the
granddaughter of Mega-Man, Canada's first superhero; and Mindstar, a psionic
whose powers threatened to overwhelm him.
Some of the team's worst enemies included Humanity, an organization
dedicated to eliminating all paranormals; Manifest Destiny, an American
group dedicated to destroying Canada; and the Visionary, a mysterious crime
lord who employs several Canadian villains as mercenaries. They also had
some vicious encounters with Eurostar and other international menaces.
A year ago, the government decided to split the team in half,
sending some of the members to the relatively undefended West Coast. The
members of the team decided who would go where; Nautilus elected to remain a
reserve member, and returned home to the East Coast to become its lone
defender. Arctic Fox was chosen to lead the Toronto team, while Mountie
remained in command of the team going west.
GROUP RELATIONS
The members of both teams all get along well. Until the split,
Mountie, Huron and Slapshot often went to hockey games together. Alouette
and Yukon Jack were, for a time, a couple; being the youngest members of the
team initially, they grew close, but the relationship didn't last. They
have remained friends, despite the split of the teams. Mindstar and Live
Wire are now the youngest teammembers, still in their teens. Arctic Fox
dated both Huron and Slapshot for a time, but since taking the mantle of
leadership she has kept her relations on a professional level.
The team has a strong relationship with the Canadian Shield agents.
Mountie and Arctic Fox are the main links between the two groups, but all
members are considered Agent Commadners. However, when working with agents,
Live Wire and Mindstar tend to defer to the more experienced agent team leaders.
EXTERNAL RELATIONS
The Canadian Shield is wildly popular in Canada, and have become a
franchise industry. Canadian Shield paraphernalia sells faster than hockey
and basketball stock combined. The most popular members are Alouette,
Slapshot, Mountie, and Arctic Fox. Alouette has a successful music career
to bolster her popularity, while Slapshot is very active in working with the
disabled and various charities.
The government is highly pleased with the teams, and supports them
unanimously. The teams try hard to promote this publicly, hoping to
encourage other independent heroes to follow their lead.
In dealing with independents, the team's primary concern is to
assess their intentions. They have met several independent heroes since
their inception. The first was Slapshot, who immediately became a member.
Mountie also had encounters with the Quebec separatist hero, Quebecois. He
refused to work with the team, and eventually became the leader of a team of
French-Canadian superheroes, Les Liberateurs. The Canadian Shield and Les
Liberateurs don't get along very well; the Quebec team are strong supporters
of the separatist cause.
The Canadian Shield met another Canadian team of heroes, Quintet.
This group is also basd in Toronto, and went public with their identities.
They are sponsored by a prominent businessman, but have maintained their
independence from the Canadian government and the Canadian Shield. As such,
Quintet was under close scrutiny for quite a while before the Canadian
Shield accepted them as equals.
The team has met several foreign superteams. Their first encounter
with Executive Sanction is best left undiscussed, save to say that the
Silver Avenger Rackham and Huron exchanged several heated words. The
Champions were far more pleasant, and the teams have worked well together.
The Protectors have also been allies on several occasions, particularly now
that the team has a branch in Vancouver.
*******************
I have more detail on the team, and I am working on an extensive timeline of
Canadian paranormal history. I'll start posting details on the individual
heroes soon; I also hope to detail the other teams I mentioned, as well as
the nasties. Constructive criticism is welcomed; flames will be snuffed.
Glen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:43:47 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Unfinished Power Set!
From: Chris Hartjes <chris@ergmusic.com>
>On 3 Dec, Jason Sullivan wrote:
>> Here's an unfinished power set I'vebeen working on for the 'unstoppable
>> super soldier.' He can resist pain and recover from the pain of injury
>> rather quickly.
>>
>> +20 STUN, Only to aid in recoveries when unconcious (-1/2)
>> Is this legal? And if so, in what order does it recover?
>
>I would just buy more REC. Not sure what that extra STUN would be good
>for when unconcious...
Actually, extra STUN will work, extra REC won't. When you are knocked out by
a large enough attack, you recover once a minute or less. Thus, no matter
how much REC you have, it takes at least that minimum time to recover, and
it can get expensive.
However, with the +20 STUN, only to aid recoveries when unconscious, the
same man who was so far down that he only recovered once per minute now
recovers once per phase. Within a very short time, he is conscious.
Note: If a character is knocked out by so much that he only recovers once a
minute, it is a good idea to keep that recovery rate all the way to total
recovery. People who are knocked out thoroughly do not suddenly jump up and
are fully recovered in seconds.
Thus, if you only get to recover once per minute, and you have a 4 REC, SPD
3, and a 30 STUN, and you are now conscious by three points, it will take
you 7 minutes before you are completely recovered, not 24 seconds.
<snip>
>> + CON (straight + or Absorption)
>> Only for use in recoveries. This needs much elaboration.
>
>Again, I would think more REC would do it.
In this case, I'd probably agree.
>> 15 Armor (15 PD, 15 ED), Ablative (-1), Does not protect against
>> falling damage (-1/4), Not vs. Area of Effect/Explosive attacks (-1/4),
>> Attacks still penetrate (-1/4), Only when under extreme stress or Enraged
>> (-1/4) "Biological Invulnrability"
>> You can nick him down, chunk by chunk. Major body trauma is very
>> effective in negating this power's effects.
>
>Perhaps it's just me, but what does "Attacks still penetrate" mean?
It means if you poisoned your blade and stab him, he gets poisoned, even if
his armor stopped the attack with no damage. Also important if someone is
trying to steal some of your blood for a vodoo rite.
>> 8 +10 PRE; Only for PRE attacks (-1/4), Fear/Intimidation only
>> (-1/4), Only when exhibiting 'unnatural' powers (-1/2), Only when under
>> extreme stress or Enraged (-1/2) "Fear Factor"
>> It tends to get very frightening when you impale someone with a
>> harpoon, stick knives into his chest, and he still marches after you,
>> bloodied, but very upset.
>
>This might be better simulated by just giving him extra dice when he's
>trying a PRE attack.
Uh, how do you buy extra dice without buying Presence?
<snip>
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 14:34:04 PST
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
On Wed, 2 Dec 1998 "James Jandebeur" wrote:
>Actually, Independent powers have been presented that are not bought
through
>Foci.
<snip>
>I am reasonably sure that that's not the case in the BBB, as I remember
it
>talking about this being used on a focus only, but extending it to
non-foci
>does make sense.
Since I was quoting from the BBB, I was using the rules as they appear
in the BBB, which do require that you buy Independent powers as Foci.
However, I agree that there are ways that you can rewrite the rule that
make more sense. This is why the Golden Rule of Gaming is that all the
rules in the book are merely guidelines. And why we have this list.
>>For instance, perhaps the suit is
>>a high-tech artifact from an alien civilization, and *no one* knows
how
>>it works or how to fix it (especially not the poor shlub who found it
in
>>a crater in his back yard one fateful night). Furthermore, such an
>>origin could explain how the suit adapts itself to each wearer, thus
>>making it work for anyone.
>
>
>I would still not take this as Independent. It would be Universal and
>Irreplacable (and no force known on Earth could damage it, but the
aliens
>who made it could destroy it), but otherwise a regular focus. If it is
ever
>permanently taken from me, it would be done in a dramatic moment and
maybe
>my character would go through significant changes and re-spend those
points
>(she mutates from the energies the armor constantly exposed her to,
altering
>her into an superbeing in her own right...) If I take it Independent,
this
>option is not open to me, and I will eventually lose all of those
points (if
>I don't lose them at some point, why am I getting a -2 limitation?).
Personally, I would do it that way, too. I was just trying to dream up
a situation in which a character's powers (specifically battlesuit
powers) COULD be bought as Independent. Certainly it is not the only
way to model that situation, and definitely there are better ways. As a
player, I would never build that character. As a GM, I would only allow
that character if I felt that the player and I were on the same page
about how long the power would be his. I've had players who would
regard the loss of a major part of their powers as a role-playing
challenge.
Let's face it. I can think of only two reasons anyone would buy their
powers as Independent: 1) They are trying to simulate something from a
book or movie and are willing to sacrifice character effectiveness for
authenticity (or a challenge, as I mentioned above), or 2) they are
trying to get their power really cheaply. In the former case, more
power to 'em. In the latter, they deserve what they get.
I'm not a fan of Independant powers. Either you're in a superheroic
game and they're inappropriate in the extreme, or you're in a heroic
game and you can just get things as "normal equipment". In fantasy
games, where people create unique magic items all the time, Independent
has it's uses, but I'm still uncomfortable asking my players to part
with hard-earned xp's that way. Unless everyone is buying Independent
potions and such, it's just going to lead to some sort of inequity.
Some people don't mind that, even enjoy it, and I tip my hat to them,
but that's not me.
Perhaps the best way to think of Independent powers is as XP's that can
be used up and thrown away, much like burning character points or Karma
for re-rolls and extra dice, they way you do in Star Wars and Shadowrun.
Then it becomes a question of role-playing style, and not one person
getting screwed out of points. Also, in the HeroSystem, GM's are often
encouraged to give out Contacts, Favors and such as a bonus above and
beyond XP's. Perhaps Independent items could be treated the same way,
as a cookie for good role-playing that provides a little more color than
just saying, "Because you acted out that scene with Miracle Max so well,
here's another XP to spend on buying a new Martial Arts maneuver..."
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:42:51 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
>*Sigh* We've been over this. And the emotional trauma and the other
I apologize: the tone of that reply, upon re-reading, was rather
condescending and rude. Such was not my intent. Please don't string me up...
Again, my apologies, I'll try to do better,
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:35:20 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
>> So, Germany didn't have enough helium to lift a zeppelin.
>
>Umm, he said "Fun with Nazis", not "Historical Germany"
>
> YMMV :)
>
>When Herr Goehring says, "we own the world and space,"
> we heil, heil, right in Herr Goehring's face.
That should be "We Heil! Phthththttt! Heil! Phthththttt!"
Filksinger
Keeper of precision in weird songs:)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:57:28 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Re: Article on Canada (fwd)
rothflmao...and holding my sides.
Tooo, tooo funny.....
"'Remember, Boo-Boo...we only have one weakness."
"What's that, Rat Fink?"
"mmmmm.....Bullets."
--Rat Fink and Boo-Boo, RAT FINK A BOO BOO
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
An except from the new story "My Worst Break Up" can now be found at
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:34:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: squeezing damage
Ell Egyptoid writes:
> That's a damn good question. I'm glad it came up on the
> list instead of in the heat of a game. I'm very interested in
> getting some sage advice on this.
>
> Here's my initial reaction, which I won't be offended if
> someone pops this idea, but here goes: It sounds like the
> SFX of your armor sound like they'd be bypassed by the SFX
> of their attack. But bypassing Normal Defense is the province of
> the advantage AVLD, not regular combat STR.
Most likely this is a power limitation on the chainmail (not effective vs
squeezing and similar effects). It's probably about a 1/4 limitation. Since
most likely the FH character isn't paying points for the chainmail, this
limitation value is fairly unimportant ;)
Actually, I usually treat chainmail as a mix of armor and damage resistance
(i.e. instead of being +5/+5 armor, it's +3/+3 armor and +2/+2 damage
resistance).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:37:05 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: squeezing damage
>ie: 25 points of STR does 5 dice of damage.
> but 25 points of STR with AVLD does 2 dice of damage.
>
>But you shouldn't normally be allowed to "vary your advantage"
>just because of SFX of your target. What's the verdict?
If it's included in the write-ups, I'd call it a limitation on the Armor
rather than an advantage on the strength. If the armor isn't written up,
it's up in the air and a GM call, really.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 14:06:53 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: Independent Limitation
At 02:14 PM 12/3/98 -0500, Brian Wawrow wrote:
>Could someone give me an example of an independant power that's NOT a
>focus?
>
>If we're talking about foci being a person, place or thing, then a place
>is an immobile focus and a person is a follower.
A place isn't necessarily an Immobile Focus; it couls be a Base or even
just a random location with no particular relationship to the character.
A person isn't necessarily a Follower; it could be a colleague, a DNPC,
a Contact, or a complete stranger.
I imagine it could even be possible to have an entire powers set that
was Independent, which the person holding could "pass on" to another upon
death or some other appropriate event (though I admit that this would be
stretching the written rules considerably).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:32:12 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filksinger@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
>Could someone give me an example of an independant power that's NOT a
>focus?
>
Certainly.
Geas
12d6 Mind Control, 0 END, Persistent, Always On, Independent.
When cast upon the target, the target must obey the Geas. Even if he escapes
by rolling high enough on his EGO roll, the attack just comes back over and
over again until he loses again. Killing the caster has no effect; the Geas
is permanent until the command is obeyed.
Note an important effect of the Independent Limitation. The power, being
Independent of the caster, does not need to be Uncontrolled, and, since it
isn't uncontrolled, doesn't need to have an obvious way to put it out.
However, the caster gives up the points permanently, in exchange for placing
a permanent effect on the target.
Any power which is designed to continue indefinitely after the caster's
death, without an obvious way to end the power's effects, is an Independent
spell.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 14:13:53 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: squeezing damage
At 12:06 PM 12/3/98 -0500, Brian Wawrow wrote:
>Hi guys,
>
>I'm back with a question actually related to Game. If a PC's armour is
>'soft' by special effect or GM decree, how do we deal with squeezing
>damage. To be specific, a FH character with chain armour gets grabbed
>and squeezed by a 25STR zombie. Do I give him the full DEF of the
>armour? I've already instituted a rule that soft armour gives only half
>protection against the Stun of normal physical attacks, should I go
>further? Would it be fair to only give half DEF for BOD of normal
>physical attacks as well?
>
>I'm just trying to keep things dangerous here.
I think that this idea (half rPD against BODY for normal physical
attacks) would be reasonable, considering your existing house rule.
If you're building the Armor with points in any way, incidentally, I'd
recommend giving this at least a -1/4 Limitation. (Even if the characters
themselves aren't paying for their stuff with points -- for instance, if
you're using Real Cost to determine monetary cost, equipment allotment, or
some such.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:34:11 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Unfinished Power Set!
>Of course, this is already covered under the rules, as "Exhibiting a
power".
>They need to add levels to this; a "power" could be Clinging (impressive),
>or walking out of the blazing inferno after the building explodes, bouncing
>the bullets fired by the police (a bit more impressive, IMHO).
For the latter, I would give it +3d6: "Surviving and Incredibly Violent
Action and Laughing".
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 18:40:34 -0600
From: Bryant Berggren <voxel@theramp.net>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
At 12:49 PM 12/3/98 -0800, James Jandebeur wrote:
>> I have to go along with Guy here. Just because something *can* happen,
>>doesn't mean that it *must* happen.
>
>How about this: If I take "Does not work in magnetic field", that only means
>that my power *can* be shut off by a magnetic field. It doesn't mean it
>*must* happen in the run of the game. Does anyone actually accept that?
Yes -- because the limitation also covers the fact that I may have to alter
my behavior to a less useful path to avoid the limitation. Imagine the hero
in a maze, with a short path protected by magnetic field, and a complex
route without the field. If he chooses the latter route, the limitation has
caused him problems despite not actually resulting in the negation of his
powers.
>When the something that *can* happen is the only reason that it is worth the
>limitation, it follows that it *must* happen for both game balance and
>drama.
But this is not such a case. When the "something that can happen" can be
avoided in exchange for other consequences, the other consequences become
part of the limiting factors.
>Independent is a limitation because you can lose the points. If you don't
>lose the points, it does not limit the character. Because of this, I see no
>reason to assume that you are NOT going to lose it. The assumption that you
>will seems perfectly natural: you are effectively requesting that the GM
>takes it away at some point by saying he can.
No, you are merely creating the possibility that the GM can take those
points, and thus forcing yourself to be more careful about protecting them.
The extra effort you expend to protect those abilities is part of the
limiting factor.
- --
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing." -- attributed to Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 16:15:02 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: squeezing damage
>>To be specific, a FH character with chain armour gets
>>grabbed and squeezed by a 25 STR zombie. Do I give him
>>the full DEF of the armour?
I listed the armor with full defenses, some has lower PD than its armored
PD, some has slightly higher. Before you say "aieee!! what a headache!!"
just remember once you write it down on your character sheet you dont have
to worry about it any more. In addition, most armor doesnt have as much ED
as PD (especially the metal armors). The result is that most of these
kinds of questions dont come up.
Also, the armor has a personal BOD, how much damage it takes to destroy IT,
very handy for certain rusting spells and items. The armor takes 1/2 the
damage the target does (some of that body damage a character takes is
tissue disruption, not cutting impact that would hurt the armor). Once the
armor is damaged it needs repair and covers less than it once did. In
addition all armor unless incredibly well made (and more encumbering) has
joints and chinks in it (15- protection, if this fails it only defends half
as much).
I can post my Fantasy Hero armor rules here if you want.
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 16:03:37 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: CHAR: Kulilin
At 11:26 AM 12/3/98 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>[another Dragonball Z character. Note, I may stop posting these since the
>next character (Piccolo) is 975 points, and they are only going to go up
>from there. UNless you all want to see 1000+ point walking engines of
>destruction...]
As a reminder in case it makes you feel any better, Michael, for TUV I
adapted the Devourer of Worlds from Robot Warriors and came up with a
(literal) monster of 1297 points. Of course, the thing stands a kilometer
tall and eats planets for a living, so that's not *too* ridiculous.
(Side note: it's likely that TUV will be split up into two or three
books, since I originally wrote it with the assumption that it would be
published electronically and wouldn't be bothered by a large page count.
Thus, the Devourer may actually be found under a different title. Once a
decision is made on this, either Bruce, Steve, or I will let people know.)
>10 Distinctive Features: Short, bald monk with six dots on his
> forehead and no nose (C)
I've only seen a couple of episodes, so I'm not sure, but is this ever
actually used against him in the story, or even commented upon?
No other particular comments from this corner. :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 17:06:11 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
At 02:34 PM 12/3/98 PST, Jesse Thomas wrote:
>Since I was quoting from the BBB, I was using the rules as they appear
>in the BBB, which do require that you buy Independent powers as Foci.
Incorrect! Look again at the fourth paragraph on page 108:
"Independent Powers are items when they are built with the Focus
Limitation. The Focus must be Universal. However, an Independent Power
doesn't have to be tied to an Item." That third sentence is pretty clear
that an Independent Power doesn't have to be bought through a Focus.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 15:46:11 PST
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
ON Thu, 3 Dec 1998 "James Jandebeur" wrote:
(as an example of an Indpendent Power that was "not a Focus")
>One of the examples given somewhere was basically an enchanted "tatoo"
or
>ritual scar that granted power to the possessor. It could be destroyed
by
>cutting the flesh, breaking the magical design.
If wings are OAF, then tattoos are OIF.
It seems to me that the Independent limitation is based on the
assumption that you will use it to create a Focus-based power. It even
says so in the second paragraph: "The primary use of the Independent
Limitation is for making special items." (BBB, p. 108) Granted, they
don't say you can't, but semantic analysis shows that they assumed that
you would, even up to wording the Dispel power to support that
assumption.
As for a Power that is Independent but not a Focus, I've only seen one
legitimate example of such a thing: The "Odin granted us a gift" power
mentioned on the list earlier today. If a god or other powerful being
instills you with a power that has no outward sign, then it can be
Independent but not a Focus. It can only be destroyed by a
Transformation or other Adjustment Power. In effect, you are the Focus
of a power that belongs to someone else. Then, the points you spend on
the power become something more in the nature of a Perk. "I paid 10
points for permission to use Zeus' thunderbolts!"
I, as a GM, would reduce the value of Independent if the only way to get
rid of it was through an uncommon power, such as Dispel or Drain vs.
Blessings of the Gods. Better yet, I, as a GM, would never let a player
take an Independent power to begin with. At least not without a really,
really good Persuasion roll.
PS: Note to the list: Vocab lesson of the day: One Focus, Two Foci.
You will never, ever, encounter a lone Foci in the wild. To the best of
my knowledge, you will never encounter one in captivity, either.
PPS: The vocab lesson was not directed at you, JAJ. I've just read one
too many message that gets it wrong today.
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
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------------------------------
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