Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 69
Desmarais, John
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 7:25 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #69
champ-l-digest Friday, December 4 1998 Volume 01 : Number 069
In this issue:
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
RE: Article on Canada (fwd)
Re: Article on Canada (fwd)
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
RE: Independent Limitation
Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
Re: Independent Limitation
RE: CAPTURING SOMEONE
Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
Re: FH armor deux
Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: some dumb questions for the list.
Re: Fantasy Hero armor
Re: Article on Canada (fwd)
Re: squeezing damage
Re: Independent non-Focused powers...
Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
Re: Article on Canada (fwd)
Re: squeezing damage
Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
Re: Independent non-Focused powers...
RE: Article on Canada (fwd)
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Fantasy Hero armor
RE: Article on Canada (fwd)
Re: some dumb questions for the list.
RE: Article on Canada (fwd)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 09:53:11 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
At 07:41 AM 12/4/98 -0800, Ell Egyptoid wrote:
>howzabout the concept of mana wells or ley lines?
>
>I'd write it up as
>30 666/33 End Reserve (Magic),recovery rate: per day,
> ReqSklRoll,
> Extra time,only to start power,
> Indep,
> Lim:must have the magician or priest perks,
> Reduced by Rng,
> Side FX Desc: CON drain if not manipulated correctly,
> Difficult to Dispel x2,
> Var SFX, any: Sorcery, Mana, Elemental
>
>These things aren't tied to a place, they move around like jet streams
>or can dry up like geysers. So it takes a skill roll to find one,
>also it takes a phase to position yourself in it properly to
>channel the power, you must be a magician or priest to use it,
>(sorry mentalists), if you don't stand in it correctly, you lose
>CON temporarily due to magic system shock, and it's independent.
>So there's 666 points of END for you, which only rebuilds slowly,
>but also means any skilled user can step into one and use "your"
>power.
>
>So there's an Indep power that's not a focus, or specific place.
>You can find one anywhere, and anyone who can find it (Channeling
>or Dowsing skill, etc) can also use it, even bad guys.
Not a bad concept or write-up; in fact, I'm going to archive it so I can
use it in some future Fantasy Hero setting.
Oh, except for one thing: how does Reduced by Range work into it?
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:46:01 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
From: Lockie <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net>
>To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 9:32 AM
>Subject: Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
>
>
>>From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
>>
>>
>>>Definitely use a Zeppelin, but: Don't fill the Zeppelin with
>>>hydrogen, use helium, sure its more expensive, but its worth it.
>>>Remember: good zeppelins have compartmentalized envelopes and
>>>can't be "popped" with one shot. Also the Nazis will have a supply
>>>of patch kits.
>>
>>
>>Alternately, _do_ fill it with hydrogen. Have it blow up. Have the heroes
>>cheer. Then, when they turn around, they discover the SS, weapons leveled,
>>grinning at them.
>>
>>Filksinger
>>
>
>and then the french resistance turns up.
Followed by the Spanish Inquisition.
"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:09:37 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Article on Canada (fwd)
Civilization is a purely subjective term. I'm not going to dis any state
specifically, but I ran into some people who were wading in the shallow
end of the gene pool on my last trip.
] > Do you realize that I can drive from Toronto to Miami
] [24hours] in less
] > time than it takes to drive across Ontario [about 30hours]. Now I'm
] > flexing like Hans & Franz.
]
] Well, yeah. But there's signs of civilization between Toronto
] and Miami. Driving across Ontario, on the other hand... : )
]
]
] -Tim Gilberg
] -"English Majors of the World! Untie!"
]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:05:00 -0800
From: "Filksinger" <filkhero@usa.net>
Subject: Re: Article on Canada (fwd)
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
>Weather Impared? The U.S. has probably 20 states that can't achieve a
>proper state of winter. There's nothing impared about the weather up
>here. We've got the strongest weather in the world.
>
>Assault rifle impared maybe, but never weather impared.
>
>How come those states are so tiny anyway?
We USAns are very cliquish.
Filksinger
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:05:18 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
I am in complete agreement with this statement. Not that you need my
endorsement...
Normally, I wouldn't send a message that just said "I agree". It seemed
appropriate in this case, though, so we can bring the thread to a close.
JAJ, GP
>I think that GMs should carefully consider his policy on Independent and
>inform his players what it will be. If he's NOT willing to take something
>away from the characters permanently, then he should disallow Independent.
>If he decides to allow it into the game, he should make sure SOME
>independent item gets taken away, even if the belong to PCs. Perhaps he
>could let an NPC have such an item, then take it away, to give the PCs an
>idea of what they're getting into.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:40:12 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
>> I'd like to take this moment to give thanks that that the 5th Edition
will
>> finally put an end to the Great Linked Debate. Apparently.
>>
>> When it's actually out, and if it really does do so, I suggest open
dancing
>> in the streets and celebration.
>
> I guess. Some of us will just have to write house rules, however.
Well, of course. That's always going to happen. But the debate was always
about what the official rules really meant. Otherwise, there would be no
point at all, and that's really not a good point anyway. Arguing over who's
house rules are best is kind of silly: they all are. Even when they have
percieved flaws.
However, I wouldn't bother writing those house rules until the book comes
out and we know what the new "official" rules are. (official being in quotes
not because they are not official, but to indicate that official is not
all-important)
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:38:50 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
At 04:35 AM 12/4/98 GMT, <owner-champ-l@sysabend.org> wrote:
>From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
>cc: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Subject: Re: CHAR: Kulilin
>In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981203160337.006998d4@klock.com>
>
>On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>
>> At 11:26 AM 12/3/98 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
>> >[another Dragonball Z character. Note, I may stop posting these since the
>> >next character (Piccolo) is 975 points, and they are only going to go up
>> >from there. UNless you all want to see 1000+ point walking engines of
>> >destruction...]
>>
>> As a reminder in case it makes you feel any better, Michael, for TUV I
>> adapted the Devourer of Worlds from Robot Warriors and came up with a
>> (literal) monster of 1297 points. Of course, the thing stands a kilometer
>> tall and eats planets for a living, so that's not *too* ridiculous.
>
>Right. Okay. Well, I'm hoping my "Perfect Cell" will beat your "Devourer
>of Worlds" (1297 to... 1500? 2000? Dunno, but he's got 430 points in
>Characteristics alone...).
OK, so The Devourer only has 241 in Characteristics. OTOH it's written
up as a self-aware Vehicle, so it has fewer Characteristics to worry about
(like, it doesn't have any STUN).
>But you do have 998 meters on him... OTOH: Perfect Cell can blow up
>planets too... (90 BODY, right?)
Something like that. I'm not sure; perhaps it'll be in Hero5. ;-]
Of course, we may be getting into something like Jackie Chan vs Godzilla
here (and frankly I don't think Jackie'd do much better than Bambi did).
Perhaps at some point along here I'll post the Devourer of Worlds just
to see what kind of reaction comes around.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:26:49 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
Subject: RE: Independent Limitation
If you're the sort of GM who insists on creating a situation
specifically to exploit each disad that every character takes, yes this
will begin to look contrived.
Since we've been talking about independent powers, let's talk about
making that -2 count. Any power that's independent can be used by
anyone. So anyone who can control/acquire this power will want to do so
if it meets their needs, right? For example, a suit of power armour that
can make a two-bit hood into Iron Man would be a pretty hot ticket. Any
criminal element who knows this thing exists is going to want it for
themselves and may come up with complex plans and hire on specialists to
steal it and use it for their own dire purposes. Likewise, if you've got
an independent END battery or something based on location, wouldn't you
expect someone to take control of that area and build a bunker around
it?
To me, taking any -2 limitation on a power is like taking a 25pt. Disad.
They should be prepared for serious hassle because of it.
Which brings me around to this whole limitation conversation about
whether a disad will occur or may occur. I don't understand the
confusion. If your powers don't work in a vacuum, they don't work in a
vacuum. If you're just neurotic about being in a vacuum, then it's a
psych lim, right? Taking an activation roll doesn't mean you eventually
fail your roll, it means you check the activation roll each and every
time. I think that being arbitrary about enforcing disads is a huge
mistake. It's okay to be rough on your characters but you can't be
arbitrary about it.
That is all.
BRI
] If you do this every time, and the character never encounters
] it, it is
] going to eventually become contrived.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:30:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
> capture scenario, pulp era, nazi villains
a leggy blonde posing as French Resistance slips him a mickey finn.
==
Laissez le bon pim roulez! Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 14:43:54 -0600
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
Guy Hoyle wrote:
>
> Here's another puzzler: I need to be able to capture a player character
> without hurting him. He's too strong just to be jumped by goons, and he's
> a savvy-enough hunter that he could probably see any snares I set for him.
> Any neat tricks or favorite tactics come to mind? The campaign is a pulp
> type adventure, set in 1936. The villains are Nazis.
Ah, thats an easy one..
Villian holds gun to innocent woman/child's head (who may or may not
actually be working WITH the villian) and orders the hero to surrender
or watch the woman/child die. If necessary, have guns on more than one
victim.
Standard pulp genre stuff
Todd
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 09:40:25 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
At 09:36 PM 12/3/98 -0800, James Jandebeur wrote:
>Please see my other post, as well.
>
>> Well, first of all, the rulebook makes no mention of an Irreplaceable
>> Focus (at least, not in my copy).
>
>It is called Unbreakable. Sorry. Which means that it is unique and
>irreplacable.
No, Unbreakable means that it is unbreakable -- it cannot be broken,
except by some unique and special means. It may or may not be unique, but
according to the BBB (as I quote elsewhere) it *is* replaceable.
>> Second, taking away any Focus that is not Independent (and not giving it
>> back, whether right away or ever) still means that the experience points
>> spent on it can be re-spent on a replacement. This can be done right away
>> or in due time, and the replacement can identically match its predecessor
>> or be completely different, depending on the specifics of the campaign, but
>> it can still be done. This could not be done with an Independent item;
>> when the item is gone, for however long that is, so are the points.
>
>Nowhere does the book say that points cannot be reduced by the GM for an
>adventure. If the GM is going to reduce your points long term but
>temporarily, he can do so. What you are describing is a temporary
>reduction of points as an adventure seed. This in no way requires
>Independent to pull off, so Independent is not necessary.
Obviously points can be reduced by the GM for an adventure. This
doesn't require the mechanics of Independent, Focus, Drain, or even any
game mechanic at all; the GM can do it by fiat. The mechanics are there as
tools for the GM (and players) to use.
Besides that, what you apparently meant as a rebuttal didn't refute what
I said in any way. Take away a non-Indepedent Focus, and the points can be
respent; take away an Independent Focus, and they cannot.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:39:15 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
Subject: RE: CAPTURING SOMEONE
That's easy. Poison is your answer. There are a number of ways to go
about this.
[1]The sultry Belgian double agent who pours on the seduction and
poisons the hero.
[2]The Algerian assassins with the poison darts. For this I like to use
a small penetrating killing attack with a ranged drain against the stat
of your choice the triggers when the dart does BOD.
So what kind of poisons are good for capturing square jawed heros?
Paralysis 1:Entangle vs. CON [I'm not sure if there's an advantage for
this]
Paralysis 2:Mind Control vs. CON -only to issue paralysis command
Subdual 1:Drain vs. DEX (continuous) [makes for a nice couple of phases
while the hero freaks out and tries to run while cursing his feet for
failing him. As his SPD goes down, he's forced to just wait around for
phase 12 while the assassins kick him into unconsciousness]
Subdual 2:Drain vs. REC [then the assassins have to chase him to tire
him out]
Sleepy Time: Just a big NND attack with immunity to a specific poison as
defense
My personal favourite is the double agent/seduction/continuous DEX drain
approach. It tends to result in the hero finding out too late what's
happening but still having enough time to freak out and try to escape.
BRI
] Here's another puzzler: I need to be able to capture a player
] character
] without hurting him. He's too strong just to be jumped by
] goons, and he's
] a savvy-enough hunter that he could probably see any snares I
] set for him.
] Any neat tricks or favorite tactics come to mind? The
] campaign is a pulp
] type adventure, set in 1936. The villains are Nazis.
]
] Thanks,
]
] Guy
]
]
] --------------------------------------------------------------
] ------------
] "For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert."
] --Charles Fort
]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:34:59 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
Questions:
1. Does he have any particular weaknesses, and do the people trying to
capture him know them? By weaknesses, I mean not only Vulnerabilities and
such that he probably doesn't have, but also deficiencies that could be
taken advantage of that an observant villain could figure out. If they have
no reason to know of such, of course they can't use them. DNPC's are a
possibility.
2. What do you mean "not hurt" him? No Body, or no damage at all? Probably
no damage at all, right?
Lessee: Once during a Mystery Men campaign set during World War II and just
before, a Nazi agent insinuated himself into the group's entourage. They
were rich folk who all attended a club (I think it was called the Empire
Club), and he was also a member. He slowly brainwashed one of the party
members, and eventually turned her against the group. I left small clues as
to his true allegiance, which they didn't catch onto. That's probably not
useful for your purposes, though.
If it was a superhero campaign, Nazi Killer Robots could grab him.
Traps would have to be out of his ability to percieve. He could be lured
into a building, say a warehouse, and then the entire building gased with a
mind-numbing drug. If he doesn't have the opportunity to see the trap,
because it's on the other side of a wall, he won't have the chance to avoid
it. Of course, he could still get out of it by simple caution, but he might
not.
Hmm, I seemed to be tapped out. Not good, especially since I'm likely to be
running a game this weekend. I hope the creative juices start flowing soon.
JAJ, GP
>Here's another puzzler: I need to be able to capture a player character
>without hurting him. He's too strong just to be jumped by goons, and he's
>a savvy-enough hunter that he could probably see any snares I set for him.
>Any neat tricks or favorite tactics come to mind? The campaign is a pulp
>type adventure, set in 1936. The villains are Nazis.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:10:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: Re: FH armor deux
On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Christopher Taylor wrote:
> Forgot the final section with the optional rule I use for most Fantasy Games.
>
> PARTIAL PROTECTION
I would like to point out that there are some suits, specificially late
period suits of full plate, that *do not* have gaps or weak spots that
would fall under these rules. Henry VIII's suit for the Field of Cloth of
Gold tourney is one such suit. It is so well made and fully covering that
NASA took a look at it while working on ideas for hard space &
pressure suits.
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 07:14:05 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
hostage. . or just lure him into a room and lock the door. Both classics.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Guy Hoyle <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
To: Champions mailing list <champs-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 5:15 AM
Subject: CAPTURING SOMEONE
>Here's another puzzler: I need to be able to capture a player character
>without hurting him. He's too strong just to be jumped by goons, and he's
>a savvy-enough hunter that he could probably see any snares I set for him.
>Any neat tricks or favorite tactics come to mind? The campaign is a pulp
>type adventure, set in 1936. The villains are Nazis.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Guy
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert."
>--Charles Fort
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:34:16 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
At 10:50 AM 12/3/98 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>
>> I have to go along with Guy here. Just because something *can* happen,
>>doesn't mean that it *must* happen.
>> My own tendency would be to let the character have the Independent Focus
>>for a while, then take it away for a period, and then have an opportunity
>>to get it back. It would be during the absent period that the Limitation
>>of its being Independent would be underscored; a normal Focus could be
>
>But how is this different from an Indestructible focus, which also can't be
>replaced except by getting the original back? This is the problem, it looks
>like some people are proposing giving an extra -2 Limitation for situations
>that would occur with one of the two standard kind of Foci without
Independent.
If an Unbreakable Focus is stolen or destroyed, it *can* be replaced
with an expenditure of the same character points. See BBB, p. 106, fifth
paragraph, fourth sentence:
"The GM should be careful with an Unbreakable Focus; if he destroys it,
the character should have some way (a quest, prehaps?) to get it remade."
This *cannot* be done with an Independent Focus; when it's gone, so are
the points it was made from.
Further, if an Unbreakable Focus that is not Independent is stolen or
destroyed, then the character may still spend the points in other ways.
The replacement may be identical to the original, slightly modified, or
completely different. The character doesn't even have to spend the points
on a Focus at all; he may instead choose to take up an intense martial arts
training course, or develop a serum that gives him Powers similar to those
in the Focus, or have an accident that gives him energy powers, or any of a
variety of other things. If the item is merely stolen, the character may
also opt to go through the effort of trying to get it back.
If an Independent Focus is gone, so are the character points; none of
the above options are available, except for the last (trying to get it
back).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:10:39 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: some dumb questions for the list.
At 06:30 PM 12/4/98 +1000, Lockie wrote:
>>>>
<excerpt><smaller>I'm pulling together a character, and a have a few
questions:
</smaller></excerpt><<<<<<<<
I, on the other hand, am pulling together an increasing dislike for
Microsoft Outlook Express and its itty-bitty text output that I can't
read on my 14" mionitor using Eudora Pro.
<excerpt>>>>>
<smaller>*if one was trying to blanket a whole planet in AE hexes, would
'AE-radius'
be aplicable sor covering the surface, or should 'AE-any' be used, to
depict the complex and varied nature of a planets surface, underworld,
ect? In all cases, what's the circumference of the earth in hexes? (hey
my atlas is upstairs, ok?)
</smaller></excerpt><<<<<<<<
For Hero4, use enough Radius to cover the surface area.
According to my Britannica, the Earth has a surface area of
509,600,000 square kilometers. If I'm doing my figures right (and I'm
sure someone will jump in and correct me if I'm not), a square kilometer
comes up to 192,450 hexes, which means a total of just over 98 trillion
hexes (that's a US trillion -- 10^12). So you'd need a Radius of about
99 million inches.
>>>>
<excerpt><smaller>*does the list think a continuous power can be 'set
off' multiple times
if previous uses are still active?
</smaller></excerpt><<<<<<<<
For me, sure -- up to INT/5 total Powers active at once (including STR
and personal Movement, if these are using to enough of an extent to cost
END).
>>>>
<excerpt><smaller>*what happens to the points from a drain or transfer in
the long term? if such a power is bought with scads (and i mean SCADS) of
moves down the time chart, should the point still be reasonably use-able,
for instance once the victim has dies and turned to dust?
</smaller></excerpt><<<<<<<<
To my mind, if a Transfer has a return rate that long, and the target
dies before getting all of the points back, then the points still return
at the normal rate. They just return to a corpse, and can't be taken
again. (In other words, it's treated something like the return rate of
an Aid.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 98 22:19:34
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero armor
On Fri, 04 Dec 1998 09:58:13 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>ARMOR AND SHIELDS FOR JOLRHOS FANTASY HERO
Not bad but who needs the complication?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 07:10:55 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Article on Canada (fwd)
don't ask me. . our states are huge. . and sparsely populated! *g*
As for strength- my tsunami can kick your glacia's ass any day.
Ok, they're both geographically distant. But nobody living near a tsunami
site would even joke about it anyway *L*
- -----Original Message-----
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
To: Champions Mailing List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 2:54 AM
Subject: RE: Article on Canada (fwd)
>Weather Impared? The U.S. has probably 20 states that can't achieve a
>proper state of winter. There's nothing impared about the weather up
>here. We've got the strongest weather in the world.
>
>Assault rifle impared maybe, but never weather impared.
>
>How come those states are so tiny anyway?
>
>BRI
>
>]
>] please, they prefer 'weather impared'. .
>]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:34:58 -0600
From: "Logan" <logand@cyberramp.net>
Subject: Re: squeezing damage
Well, I never said that I necessarily _agreed_ with that ruling. (Course,
under the circumstances, as described elswhere, I didn't lend any support to
the player's cause in question) Just giving an experience for further
consideration. Maybe we could start a new thread? Bad GM decisions? Or how
to honk off your players and get them to leave the game? (Just kidding
^_^;;)
- -Logan
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable
game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective
of any of the other players,* to being involved in an obscure and complex
version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite
stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who
_smiles all the time_."
-Neil Gaimen and Terry Pratchett
_Good Omens_
*i.e., everybody.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
- -----Original Message-----
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: squeezing damage
>At 06:23 PM 12/3/98 -0600, Logan wrote:
>>In my last tabletop game, we pretty much ruled that SFX could hose you
>>regardless of specific power limitations and advantages.
>>
>>For example, we had a "weather-wizard" (cadged with modifications from
>>Aquarius of the Zodiac Conspiracy) who had a "wind shield" built as a
force
>>field / force wall. There wasn't a specific limitation saying that his
force
>>field wouldn't work vs hand to hand or grappling attacks, but he got
tagged
>>by a brick who just walked up and grabbed him and then punched him. GM's
>>ruling was that since the special effects of his force field was a "wind
>>shield", then a regular punch would ignore the force field entirely! Ouch!
>>But that was the way the character had been built.
>>
>>He invested some points thereafter in a padded suit of armor (5-6 PD) to
>>give him some small protection against attacks like that. :)
>
> I hope the GM made this SFX limitation clear to the player beforehand,
>and gave him either a appropriate Limitation value or an SFX bonus of
>approximately equal value for it. Otherwise that's grossly unfair.
> (Not to mention that I wouldn't necessarily agree with the ruling,
>though I'm not prepared to discuss that at this time.)
>---
>Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
>Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
> http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:45:12 -0500
From: werther@hilander.com (...jason schneiderman...)
Subject: Re: Independent non-Focused powers...
At 1:24 PM 12/4/98, James Jandebeur wrote:
>I don't know about the Darkness, but the Witchblade seems more like a
>character origin idea than an actual Independent focus.
*blink* Independent Focus?
I must have been unclear. It's my position that it'd be an "Independent
non-Focused power," as I put in the subject line.
> This comes back to a question I had earlier: can Independent be bought off?
I'd imagine so... perhaps a bonding ritual for a magic item or something
similar. The item has become so much a part of the character that it
becomes attached to her in a "karmic" sense.
Jason Schneiderman
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:03:56 -0600
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
> 2. What do you mean "not hurt" him? No Body, or no damage at all?
Probably
> no damage at all, right?
They want to use him as breeding stock, so nothing that would prevent him
from reproducing. Of course, they also have respect for him as a "perfect
Aryan", so they won't want to damage him more than necessary.
Thanks!
Guy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 11:23:31 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Article on Canada (fwd)
At 09:30 AM 12/4/98 -0800, James Jandebeur wrote:
>Most of the small states are so small because their growth was stunted early
>on. It took a few tries before they figured out how to raise them to get
>big, healthy states. Hawaii is small simply by virtue of being an island,
>though.
Some of their growth was also stunted by tobacco. You'll notice that
few if any of the larger states have much in the way of tobacco.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: 04 Dec 1998 16:09:16 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: squeezing damage
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"MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com> writes:
MS> There is the question of how aware the PCs were that the GM was going
MS> to run SFX like this. Personally, I don't like the idea of SFX have -0
MS> lims that are that disabling,
That'd probably be because 'not vs. armed or unarmed melee strikes' is a
hell of a lot more than a -0. Try a -2.
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\ kept under refrigeration.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 07:31:12 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
*bows* The perfect response *L*
- -----Original Message-----
From: Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
>From: Lockie <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net>
>>To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>>Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 9:32 AM
>>Subject: Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
>>
>>
>>>From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Definitely use a Zeppelin, but: Don't fill the Zeppelin with
>>>>hydrogen, use helium, sure its more expensive, but its worth it.
>>>>Remember: good zeppelins have compartmentalized envelopes and
>>>>can't be "popped" with one shot. Also the Nazis will have a supply
>>>>of patch kits.
>>>
>>>
>>>Alternately, _do_ fill it with hydrogen. Have it blow up. Have the heroes
>>>cheer. Then, when they turn around, they discover the SS, weapons
leveled,
>>>grinning at them.
>>>
>>>Filksinger
>>>
>>
>>and then the french resistance turns up.
>
>
>Followed by the Spanish Inquisition.
>
>"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"
>
>Filksinger
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:24:43 -0800
From: "James Jandebeur" <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Independent non-Focused powers...
>Just thinking from my limited comic-book experience, but doesn't something
>like the "Captain Universe" power set from Marvel fall into this category?
>I know that Spider Man was given god-like powers for a short period. And it
>might be an interesting way to portray those quasi-sentient powers that Top
>Cow Comics are so fond of (the Witchblade, the Darkness...).
Captain Universe could be bought using a massive influx of Independent
points, or one that just kind of hovered about, waiting for a need. I'd
normally think of him/her/it (all apply at one time or another) as either a
serial character, one who is in a different body and has a different
personality (still basically a good person, though) each time he/she/it is
played, or as a powerful disembodied entity that occasionally grants power
to a given individual.
I don't know about the Darkness, but the Witchblade seems more like a
character origin idea than an actual Independent focus. In fact, from what I
saw of it it didn't appear to be a focus at all once someone claimed it. But
I didn't see much of it. Technically, according to the BBB, it would have to
be Independent because it can be passed down to the next user. I prefer it
to be a focus for one character (if it is a focus), then it becomes
Independent for a while until claimed, then it becomes the power for the
next user. That's in "gamese": in other words, if the special effect is
right, any power set should be able to outlive its owner, rather than just
Independent ones. The next person picks it up and uses it for a time, and
can lose it permanently (and really probably should in this case) unless
they then pay for it also.
This comes back to a question I had earlier: can Independent be bought off?
If so, can it be bought off on an item you pick up like this?
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 11:26:05 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: Article on Canada (fwd)
At 12:42 PM 12/4/98 -0500, Brian Wawrow wrote:
>Fair enough, but let's get specific. Texas is big, right? Almost as big
>as Nova Scotia I think <nudge>. Alaska's a good size but that's because
>you guys bought it from the Russians. Say what you want about the
>Russians but they understand big geography. I would never dis Hawaii,
>it's still growing.
I think it balances out because Canadian provinces tend to be populated
rather sparsely.
>Do you realize that I can drive from Toronto to Miami [24hours] in less
>time than it takes to drive across Ontario [about 30hours]. Now I'm
>flexing like Hans & Franz.
That, I think, is mostly a problem with the traffic situation in
downtown Ontario. (No wait, you mean the Canadian province, not the Oregon
town....)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 06:03:09 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
>To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 12:34 PM
>Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
>
>
>>
>>>I usually don't allow Independant in superhero games, because:
>>>1) I hate taking powers away from players permanently
>>>2) Players hate it when you take away their powers permanently, even if
>>> they asked for it by taking Independant.
>>>
>>>So, to avoid bad feelings, I avoid Independant.
>>
>>This is what I meant about Gold Kryptonite. For those who are two young,
>>Gold Kryptonite used to be a variety of kryptonite that could permanantly
>>take superpowers away from a Kryptonian. The problem with it as a
>>limitation is that it's either nothing more than a boogyman (i.e. you're
>>never going to actually use it on the player) or it cripples the character
>>indefinitely. That's always seemed very problematic to me.
>
>Gold Kryptonite was used against Superman several times. He didn't take
>actions which would have exposed him to its effects. In other words, he
>altered his normal actions to prevent himself from being exposed and
>stripped of his powers.
And in a game, they might not of worked. If they didn't, you'd be stuck
with either actually stripping him of his powers, or showing the player it
was a boogeyman.
The fact something works in a sourcework does _not_ mean it necessarily
works well in a game. In a comic there's usually one writer and they'll
ignore the fact that a character crippling problem isn't real and act like
it is. Assuming a player will do this makes sets of assumptions that would,
in fact, make the cost breaks on power inherent in Limitations unnecessary
in the first place.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:41:24 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero armor
>On Fri, 04 Dec 1998 09:58:13 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>
>>ARMOR AND SHIELDS FOR JOLRHOS FANTASY HERO
>
>Not bad but who needs the complication?
People who like the detail?
One of the great truths of gaming is that there is no end to the places
where one person's 'needless complication' turns into another's 'necessary
detail'.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 14:27:05 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: Article on Canada (fwd)
At 03:09 PM 12/4/98 -0500, Brian Wawrow wrote:
>Civilization is a purely subjective term. I'm not going to dis any state
>specifically, but I ran into some people who were wading in the shallow
>end of the gene pool on my last trip.
Just wading? Consider yourself fortunate. Some of the guys I went to
high school with were spawned there.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:11:02 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
Subject: Re: some dumb questions for the list.
> I, on the other hand, am pulling together an increasing dislike for
> Microsoft Outlook Express and its itty-bitty text output that I can't
> read on my 14" mionitor using Eudora Pro.
Try PC Pine. Nice and consistant font for everything.
-Tim Gilberg
-"English Majors of the World! Untie!"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:15:39 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
From: Tim Gilberg <gilberg@ou.edu>
Subject: RE: Article on Canada (fwd)
> Civilization is a purely subjective term. I'm not going to dis any state
> specifically, but I ran into some people who were wading in the shallow
> end of the gene pool on my last trip.
You made it to Oklahoma? And you stop by?
-Tim Gilberg
-"English Majors of the World! Untie!"
------------------------------
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