Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 73
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 1998 1:34 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #73
champ-l-digest Saturday, December 5 1998 Volume 01 : Number 073
In this issue:
Re: AP/Penetrating question
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: AP/Penetrating question
Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
Re: AP/Penetrating question
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: some dumb questions for the list.
An Array Type Question
Magic Lock
Re: Independent non-Focused powers...
Re: Due South
Re: An Array Type Question
Re: some dumb questions for the list.
Re: AP/Penetrating question
Re: Fantasy Hero armor
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Independent Limitations and all...
EMP
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Magic Lock
Re: An Array Type Question
Re: EMP
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Independent Limitation
Re: Magic Lock
Re: AP/Penetrating question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 02:37:27 EST
From: Firelynx16@aol.com
Subject: Re: AP/Penetrating question
In a message dated 12/4/98 9:52:34 PM Central Standard Time, nolan@erols.com
writes:
>
> Captain Energy buys a 8d6 penetrating Energy Blast, while Wildman
> buys a 6d6 Armor Piercing Penetrating EB. Both cost 60 AP.
>
> Captain Energy fires his blast at Dr. Density, who has a 20 rED
> defense. On average, Cap will do 28 stun and 8 body. Dr. Density
> will take 8 stun from the blast and 8 from the penetration, for a total
> of 16 stun. On his best day, Cap rolls straight 6's and does
> 48 stun and 16 body. Doc takes 28 stun from the blast and 12 from the
> penetration for a total of 40 stun.
I don't think you're figuring this right. As I understand it, Penetrating
gives you a *minimum* number of Stun, not an additional... meaning your 8d6 EB
will do *at least* 8 (on average) Stun. In other words, if you do more than
the Body rolled on the dice in damage (say you rolled 29 vs the 20 def), the
Penetrating doesn't help you at all. But if you rolled 27 vs the 20 def,
you'd do 8 Stun, because you rolled 8 Body for the Penetrating.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:40:50 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
>Of course not. You seem to be working under the assumption that Independent
>powers must be taken away or the limitation is bogus. Some on this list
>feel that way but I don't.
No, I'm working under the assumption that if you aren't _willing_ to do that
the limitation is bogus. Not the same thing.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:32:56 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: AP/Penetrating question
>General question for the list:
>
>Can you stack AP and Penetrating? As in, can you buy an AP Penetrating EB?
>There's nothing that says you CAN'T... but it would appear hideously
>twinktastic on the face of it.
I don't particularly find Penetrating a rational advantage, but I've never
found the combination that much worse than, say, double AP...or simpley a
decent sized AP attack.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:35:17 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
>>> >But you do have 998 meters on him... OTOH: Perfect Cell can blow up
>>> >planets too... (90 BODY, right?)
>>>
>>> Something like that. I'm not sure; perhaps it'll be in Hero5. ;-]
>>
>>Yeah. Under 'breaking things'.
>
>
>Uhm, guys? Do we really want our planet to have a single body score so it
>can be blown out from under us easily?
>
>Oh, wait: game rules do not affect reality. Must keep that in mind.
>
As long as you look the other way and don't let the damage accumulate, it's
not that big a deal. After all, anything that can do 90 Body is an
incredibly powerful attack.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:09:15 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: AP/Penetrating question
actually the two have little to do with each other. . they don't compound
ead other at all- the penetrating means X points always gets through.
If AP means that if that many or more points get through, no extra are added
due to penetrating.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Depew <mephron@idt.net>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 12:29 PM
Subject: AP/Penetrating question
>General question for the list:
>
>Can you stack AP and Penetrating? As in, can you buy an AP Penetrating EB?
>There's nothing that says you CAN'T... but it would appear hideously
>twinktastic on the face of it.
>
>Opinions?
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:39:17 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
>To: <champ-l@sysabend.org>
>Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 8:03 AM
>Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
>
>>And in a game, they might not of worked. If they didn't, you'd be stuck
>>with either actually stripping him of his powers, or showing the player it
>>was a boogeyman.
>
>I don't see where this is a problem if you don't want the possibility don't
>let them take Independent. If you are going to force the loss don't let
>them take Independent. Simply hit them over the head with a rubber bat. It
Uhm, that's what I've been saying all along. I don't consider the
significant possibility of a character permanantly losing his powers from
something it makes perfectly good sense for his opponents to try and
do...especially when it's as doable as stealing a focus...to have desireable
game consequences.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:24:27 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
- -----Original Message-----
From: Steven J. Owens <puff@netcom.com>
To: Guy Hoyle <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Cc: champs-l@sysabend.org <champs-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
>Guy Hoyle writes:
>> Here's another puzzler: I need to be able to capture a player character
>> without hurting him. He's too strong just to be jumped by goons, and
he's
>> a savvy-enough hunter that he could probably see any snares I set for
him.
>> Any neat tricks or favorite tactics come to mind? The campaign is a pulp
>> type adventure, set in 1936. The villains are Nazis.
>
> It's always easy for the GM to stack the deck against a player,
>the trick is to do it believably.
>
>The Old Sherlock Holmes Approach
>
> If you need to do it for plot purposes and it's not going to do
>the player irreparable harm, I'd say just have him wake up in a locked
>room somewhere.
>
> The name comes from a story that the author got tired of Holmes
>(the stories were being published a chunk at a time in a magazine) and
>decided to leave him in an inescapable trap (walls closing in, water
>rising above their necks, etc) at the end of the final episode. The
>magazine got a flood of reader letters and the author reconsidered.
>But how to get him out of the inescapable trap? He started the next
>episode with:
>
> "After I got out of the trap..."
>
i hate to do it again, but what i know as the original version
was:
"With a bound he was free!"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:23:51 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
>Wayne Shaw writes:
>> At which point we're right back to the original point: either you're going
>> to actually take the focus away, or you aren't. If you aren't really going
>> to do it, it's the same as the unbreakable one. If you are, they're
>> permanantly out the points. At no point in the Unbreakable Focus rules do I
>> see where it says they aren't going to have to work to get it back. So
>> again, how is the Independent Focus different in any way that is meaningful
>> to the character, or the player? The vague threat that you're permitted by
>> the rules contract to keep it away from them? I suspec this only works
>> until they notice it's only being used as a plot device.
>
>I suspect the issue here is really a matter of play style.
>
>Some GMs *won't* be using it as a plot device -- strict situationists
>won't know if you can get the thing back or not, because they're
>unwilling to control the plot to that degree. You'll get it back if
>you do the right things. If you don't do the right things, you won't
>get it back.
>
>This is quite different from a non-Independent Focus, which you will
>always get back eventually. The GM has no choice, even if you screw
>up entirely.
>
>That may not be the way you GM. It's not how I GM. But I do know
>GMs like that.
Actually, I do run in that direction, but less in a superhero game.
Perhaps I've expressed myself poorly throughout this thread. Let me make
another try at it.
As I see it, in a superhero campaign using a power with the Independent
Limitation, there are only two essentially possible situations.
1. The GM is, in fact, willing to take the focus away from the character
permanantly. If this is the case, it seems far to likely that it will
happen at some point in the campaign, and if any significant number of
points are tied up in the item, this will cripple the character. I do not
find this at all desireable.
2. The GM is not, in fact, willing to take the focus away. At that point,
the player will sooner or later discern this fact, much as the GM may try to
conceal it and make it seem as though the threat of doing so is credible.
At that point, the Limitation is most likely meaningless, and at the least,
grossly overvalued.
Neither of these two situations seem Good Things from where I sit. Nor, I
suspect, did they to the designers, since they do not suggest using the
Limitation in superheroic games.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:58:44 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: some dumb questions for the list.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: some dumb questions for the list.=20
=20
=20
At 06:30 PM 12/4/98 +1000, Lockie wrote:=20
>>>>
=20
I'm pulling together a character, and a have a few questions:
=20
<<<<
=20
I, on the other hand, am pulling together an increasing dislike for =
Microsoft Outlook Express and its itty-bitty text output that I can't =
read on my 14" mionitor using Eudora Pro.
=20
=20
>>>>
=20
this better? *g* sorry about that. .=20
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style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
</B>Bob Greenwade <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:bob.greenwade@klock.com">bob.greenwade@klock.com</A>><B=
R><B>To:=20
</B><A href=3D"mailto:champ-l@sysabend.org">champ-l@sysabend.org</A> =
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:champ-l@sysabend.org">champ-l@sysabend.org</A>><BR><B>D=
ate:=20
</B>Saturday, December 05, 1998 8:51 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: some =
dumb=20
questions for the list. <BR><BR></DIV></FONT>At 06:30 PM 12/4/98 =
+1000,=20
Lockie wrote: <BR>>>>><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><?smaller>I'm pulling together a character, and a have a =
few=20
questions:<BR><?/smaller></BLOCKQUOTE><<<<<BR><BR>I, =
on the=20
other hand, am pulling together an increasing dislike for Microsoft =
Outlook=20
Express and its itty-bitty text output that I can't read on my =
14"=20
mionitor using Eudora Pro.<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>>>>><BR><?smaller></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=3D4>this better? *g* <FONT size=3D3>sorry =
about that.=20
. </FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 01:11:13 -0800
From: Eric Chaves <rambler@sowest.net>
Subject: An Array Type Question
I'm planning on developing a group of high-tec hocky-like villans and I had
a question on the mechanics of a power. The SFX would be that any of the
"hockey team" could pick up the "puck" and shoot it towards the heroes.
There would only be one puck between the group. I'm planning to base it on
a EB vs. PD but how would I mechanically base it on the whole group?
Thanks in advance.
Geek Code
****************************************************************************
GCS d++ H s:+ !g !p au+ a- w++ v++ C++++ UL+ P? L+ 3- E? N+++ K- W--- M++ !V
po--- Y+ t++ 5 j R++ G'' tv++ b++ D++ B--- e- u** h+ f+ r n+ y**
****************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 04:46:10 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Magic Lock
I'm trying to create a Fantasy Hero power that will magically lock and secure
all the openings into a building (windows, doors, etc.).
I've built it this way:
40 STR Telekinesis, Area Effect , x2 area , uncontrolled,
only to lock and secure doors and windows, 1 continuing
1-day charge.
Problem is, this is mighty expensive for such a low-level power.
Is there a better way to do this? Transform might lock the doors,
but what keeps them magically held?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Posterity shall triumph in this day's business,
even though we may regret it. I trust we shall not."
John Adams. 2 July 1776
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 05:40:27 -0500
From: werther@hilander.com (...jason schneiderman...)
Subject: Re: Independent non-Focused powers...
At 2:09 PM 12/4/98, James Jandebeur wrote:
>Sorry, mental hiccup. You weren't unclear. Whether it's Independent or not
>would depend on other things in the campaign that used something similar to
>it.
*nod*
From what I gather from my limited reading of the comics in question, these
powers in constant danger of being stolen; there are several villains
devoted to taking them on for themselves. Without the Witchblade power,
Sara Pezzini goes back to being a 75-point cop (and accidental underwear
model).
If any power, focused or not, that you were going to pass on to another
>character in a campaign that spanned generations had to be Independent, then
>it would be Independent and some idea would need to exist for the transfer,
>for example. Normally, I'd allow it to be transferred from character to
>character without it being Independent in such a game, and avoid the
>possibility of the family line (or whatever) losing it. But it depends.
I see what you're getting at; something like the historical series, where
they show the various "holders" of the power through the centuries.
- - J
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 20:43:31 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Due South
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hey! we get that show down here. Anyone know how they'd build his dad?
-----Original Message-----
From: Marc <games@nassau.cv.net>
To: Champ List <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 4:29 PM
Subject: Due South
=20
=20
With all the characters being posted to the list. Can anyone help =
with a HERO GAMES version of Brenton Fresier?
=20
=20
=
_________________________________________________________________________=
_____________________________________
IN CHARACTER. Home of my characters and soon (or later) my BPEM =
campaign
=20
HTTP://www.liii.com/~dragon
=20
=20
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>hey! we get that show down here. =
Anyone know how=20
they'd build his dad?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
</B>Marc <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:games@nassau.cv.net">games@nassau.cv.net</A>><BR><B>To:=
=20
</B>Champ List <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:champ-l@sysabend.org">champ-l@sysabend.org</A>><BR><B>D=
ate:=20
</B>Saturday, December 05, 1998 4:29 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Due=20
South<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>With all the characters being =
posted to the=20
list. Can anyone help with a HERO GAMES version of Brenton=20
Fresier?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
=
size=3D2>________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________<BR>IN=20
CHARACTER. Home of my characters and soon (or later) my BPEM=20
campaign</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.liii.com/~dragon">HTTP://www.liii.com/~dragon</A></FON=
T></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 07:57:30 -0500
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: An Array Type Question
At 01:11 AM 12/5/98 -0800, Eric Chaves wrote:
>I'm planning on developing a group of high-tec hocky-like villans and I had
>a question on the mechanics of a power. The SFX would be that any of the
>"hockey team" could pick up the "puck" and shoot it towards the heroes.
>There would only be one puck between the group. I'm planning to base it on
>a EB vs. PD but how would I mechanically base it on the whole group?
Unless you actually write down all the stats for a villain to
the same detail as you would for a hero, there's no need to
worry about it. Give each player an EB (Puck), and only let
them use it if you determine the puck happens to be near them.
This way, you could even have the other members of the team
actively doing something else -- say pinning down a hero so the
guy with the puck can take an easy shot.
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 20:13:43 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: some dumb questions for the list.
At 04:54 PM 12/4/98 -0800, Michael Hayden wrote:
>On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Tim Gilberg wrote:
>
>> Try PC Pine. Nice and consistant font for everything.
>
>Or be a real man and telnet into a Unix shell account where you can use
>the -original- Pine. ^_^
Or just stick to the USPS, and use the *original,* original pine. ;-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 19:22:29 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: AP/Penetrating question
At 08:38 PM 12/4/98 -0500, Geoff Depew wrote:
>General question for the list:
>
>Can you stack AP and Penetrating? As in, can you buy an AP Penetrating EB?
>There's nothing that says you CAN'T... but it would appear hideously
>twinktastic on the face of it.
>
>Opinions?
Yes, you can do this. However, the rules are highly non-specific when
it comes to how a Hardened defense would affect this. (My own
interpretation is that, under Hero4, one level of Hardened would take care
of one AP *and* one Pen -- but that's *just* my own interpretation.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 19:33:54 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Fantasy Hero armor
At 07:41 AM 12/4/98 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>On Fri, 04 Dec 1998 09:58:13 -0800, Christopher Taylor wrote:
>>
>>>ARMOR AND SHIELDS FOR JOLRHOS FANTASY HERO
>>
>>Not bad but who needs the complication?
>
>People who like the detail?
>
>One of the great truths of gaming is that there is no end to the places
>where one person's 'needless complication' turns into another's 'necessary
>detail'.
Hence the Ultimate series, eh? Here's an entire line of books designed
to provide 'necessary detail' for some, which may indeed be 'needless
complication' to many others. :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 20:09:28 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
At 07:39 AM 12/4/98 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>> If an Unbreakable Focus is stolen or destroyed, it *can* be replaced
>>with an expenditure of the same character points. See BBB, p. 106, fifth
>>paragraph, fourth sentence:
>> "The GM should be careful with an Unbreakable Focus; if he destroys it,
>>the character should have some way (a quest, prehaps?) to get it remade."
>
>So in practice, if you _aren't_ going to actually destroy or hide the focus
>indefinitely, then it's no different at all.
Why indefinitely? Why does it have to be for an indefinite period, or
on a permanent basis?
If someone steals a character's non-Independent Ring if Invisibility,
the character points stay with the character. The player may choose to
leave the points in that Focus for later retrieval, or spend them
elsewhere. He can even use the points to make a new Ring of Invisibility
if he wants to. If he spends them elsewhere and later gets the ring back,
he may spend all-new points to keep the Ring.
If someone steals that Ring of Invisibility and said ring is
Independent, then he's stuck. Those points are tied up in the Ring, and he
can't do anything else with them. He might be allowed to make a new Ring,
but he has to use different character points for the task. So he manages
to get the ring back after a few months; he's still pretty inconvenienced
by the loss of that ability and those character points for the given period
of time.
Of course, a Ring of Invisibility would probably not be a huge sink of
character points, so the character is probably not hugely inconvenienced;
in fact, he probably wouldn't be forced to retire if he lost it permanently
(and if he starts to get consistently ahead of the others in experience
points, isn't the group leader, and doesn't depend on the Ring as his
special schtick, this should be seriously considered).
As I say, the larger the item (in terms of character points), the more
crippled the character becomes without it, and the less advisable it would
be to take it away on a truly temporary basis. Of course, for the same
reason, it also becomes less advisable to take the Independent Limitation
in the first place.
Mind you, the size isn't the only measure of an item's significance. A
character who depends on his Independent Force Field device for protection
from damage is going to be at a severe disadvantage if it gets taken away
from him for even two sessions. If it gets stolen, he will be compelled to
retrieve it -- not for purely psychological reasons, but for tactical
reasons. Whatever steps he takes to get it back are not part of a separate
Limitation or Disadvantage, but part and parcel of the Independent
Limitation -- it's the *only* way he can keep his primary method of
defense! If the Force Field device wasn't Independent, then no worry; he
could just build a new one, or replace it in some other way.
>> This *cannot* be done with an Independent Focus; when it's gone, so are
>>the points it was made from.
>
>See above.
Likewise.
>> If an Independent Focus is gone, so are the character points; none of
>>the above options are available, except for the last (trying to get it
>>back).
>
>And the point is, unless the GM is actually willing to take away
>permantantly the focus, none of this means a thing. And if he is willing,
>he cripples the character. This is what I've said from the start of this
>discussion.
Again, I say that it doesn't *necessarily* have to be permanent in order
to have meaning. It just has to be long enough to inconvenience the
character in a way that he wouldn't be inconvenienced if he could just
re-spend the points.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:12:33 EST
From: Leuszler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Independent Limitations and all...
Wow. What a response I got to my initial question about Independent
Limitations. I can see that this is going to be a great list to be on.
Thanks for your input, everyone. I don't think I'll be using it on this
character (The guy in the battle armor).
Now, does anyone have a homemade character sheet they could share, that
doesn't have the combat maneuvers table and room to legibly write down powers
and disads?
Mike Leuszler
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 10:17:33 -0600
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Subject: EMP
I have a question on how a power would work. The power is:
2d6 RKA, Area of Effect, Only versus electrical circuits.
This is used to represent an EMP. Now, the villian that has this is
going up against a hero in a battlesuit. What I am wondering is how the
EMP would work, in game mechanics. What DEF and BODY does the attack go
against?
I assume that the Battlesuit does not get to count its full armor
value against the attack, but I am wondering how this attack works.
I know how to explain it in terms of special effects, I am just
wondering on game mechanics.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 08:24:16 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
At 01:39 AM 12/5/98 -0500, thomas deja wrote:
>FOR GOD'S SAKE LET THIS THREAD END!!!!
>
>Thank you
I think that it is indeed winding down.
Actually I'm glad it happened, and at this time. It will become the
basis for a discussion of Independent in The Ultimate Gadgeteer. :-]
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 07:58:41 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
At 06:34 PM 12/4/98 -0800, James Jandebeur wrote:
>> The larger an Independent item is, the less likely I am to take it away
>>on a truly permanent basis.
>
>But you admit to being willing to if it happens logically during the game,
>even on an outside chance. That's good enough.
I have from the start. It depends primarily not on chance, though, but
on the character's attitude toward and level of reliance on the item.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 08:26:24 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Magic Lock
At 04:46 AM 12/5/98 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>I'm trying to create a Fantasy Hero power that will magically lock and secure
>all the openings into a building (windows, doors, etc.).
>
>I've built it this way:
>
>40 STR Telekinesis, Area Effect , x2 area , uncontrolled,
> only to lock and secure doors and windows, 1 continuing
> 1-day charge.
>
>Problem is, this is mighty expensive for such a low-level power.
>Is there a better way to do this? Transform might lock the doors,
>but what keeps them magically held?
You don't need 40 STR to do this. The basic 10 STR should be fine,
unless those are some pretty honkin' big and heavy doors, windows, and
locks.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 06:58:51 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: An Array Type Question
At 01:11 AM 12/5/98 -0800, Eric Chaves wrote:
>
>I'm planning on developing a group of high-tec hocky-like villans and I had
>a question on the mechanics of a power. The SFX would be that any of the
>"hockey team" could pick up the "puck" and shoot it towards the heroes.
>There would only be one puck between the group. I'm planning to base it on
>a EB vs. PD but how would I mechanically base it on the whole group?
>
>Thanks in advance.
I'm not 100% clear on what you're after here. Do you mean that there's
just one puck, and any one of the team can fire it? Or that any number of
team members can participate in the firing of a single puck, and the more
participants the more powerful the puck?
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 09:21:52 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: EMP
At 10:17 AM 12/5/98 -0600, bobby farris wrote:
> I have a question on how a power would work. The power is:
>
>2d6 RKA, Area of Effect, Only versus electrical circuits.
>
> This is used to represent an EMP. Now, the villian that has this is
>going up against a hero in a battlesuit. What I am wondering is how the
>EMP would work, in game mechanics. What DEF and BODY does the attack go
>against?
> I assume that the Battlesuit does not get to count its full armor
>value against the attack, but I am wondering how this attack works.
> I know how to explain it in terms of special effects, I am just
>wondering on game mechanics.
Frankly, I wouldn't use an RKA at all, but rather a Dispel or maybe a
Drain, with the "All Powers of a Given SFX" Advantage.
If it's too late and you must use RKA, use the DEF that the battlesuit
would get as a Focus if it didn't have its own Armor as a Power.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 07:53:24 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
At 06:31 PM 12/4/98 -0800, James Jandebeur wrote:
>The question is now: If Independent is never taken away permanently, CAN it
>be worth a limitation? I must answer that with a yes. There are, indeed,
>ways for it to be. You could lose it for a LONG time not too long after the
>game starts (varies), and get it back later (If a game goes on long enough,
>and you have a chance to get it back, you will someday :). You could be so
>protective of it that it is not often used. Or you could just lose it
>permanently, the most obvious result but not the only one. The limitation is
>also useful for a variety of permanent effects. Yes, I've moderated my
>opinion, you've won already. Well, to some extent: I still believe that the
>willingness both to lose it and to take it away still have to be there, or
>it is not worth the limitation. You have to be willing to lose it, or I
>won't let you have it. I have to be willing to take it away, or, again, I
>can't let you have it.
Well, that's pretty much my position all along. My only arguments have
been against the absolute necessity of taking it away permanently at some
point, and having to make the threat seem real to the player (as opposed to
the character; and I don't recall you expressing the latter idea).
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 07:45:46 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Independent Limitation
At 04:23 PM 12/4/98 -0800, Wayne Shaw wrote:
>>Wayne Shaw writes:
>As I see it, in a superhero campaign using a power with the Independent
>Limitation, there are only two essentially possible situations.
I see a serious flaw in the thinking in each.
>1. The GM is, in fact, willing to take the focus away from the character
>permanantly. If this is the case, it seems far to likely that it will
>happen at some point in the campaign, and if any significant number of
>points are tied up in the item, this will cripple the character. I do not
>find this at all desireable.
This one I've expressed: Why does it have to be permanent? Why not
just for a reasonably (or even unreasonably) long period of time? The
character will still be out those points as well as the Power(s) they
represent.
>2. The GM is not, in fact, willing to take the focus away. At that point,
>the player will sooner or later discern this fact, much as the GM may try to
>conceal it and make it seem as though the threat of doing so is credible.
>At that point, the Limitation is most likely meaningless, and at the least,
>grossly overvalued.
This is one I haven't yet expressed. Why does it have to be such a big
secret from the *player*? It's the *character* who should be worried.
I mean, how often has Superman been threatened with Greek Kryptonite?
You don't have to worry that it's going to actually kill him to sense the
drama of the situation. You *know* he's going to get out of it -- but *he*
doesn't, and that's where the drama comes in.
Similarly, the *player* can know that you're not going to take away his
Independent Focus on a permanent basis, but the *character* doesn't need to
know it. If the player is cocky enough to let the character lower his
guard and start treating the Independent Focus as though he can't lose it,
then it's time to take it away until he misses it, and the more significant
the item is the shorter time that'll take. And sure, if he ends up not
missing it, then it can go bye-bye for good.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 13:23:52 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Magic Lock
At 08:26 AM 12/5/98 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>At 04:46 AM 12/5/98 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>>I'm trying to create a Fantasy Hero power that will magically lock and
secure
>>all the openings into a building (windows, doors, etc.).
>>
>>I've built it this way:
>>
>>40 STR Telekinesis, Area Effect , x2 area , uncontrolled,
>> only to lock and secure doors and windows, 1 continuing
>> 1-day charge.
>>
>>Problem is, this is mighty expensive for such a low-level power.
>>Is there a better way to do this? Transform might lock the doors,
>>but what keeps them magically held?
>
> You don't need 40 STR to do this. The basic 10 STR should be fine,
>unless those are some pretty honkin' big and heavy doors, windows, and
>locks.
The large STR was not to close the doors but to keep them closed
when a 20 STR warrior decides he wants in. That's the 'secure'
part.
I wonder if this might not be bought as simple STR, rather than
as TK?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Posterity shall triumph in this day's business,
even though we may regret it. I trust we shall not."
John Adams. 2 July 1776
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 07:14:43 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: AP/Penetrating question
At 09:28 PM 12/4/98 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>Captain Energy buys a 8d6 penetrating Energy Blast, while Wildman
>buys a 6d6 Armor Piercing Penetrating EB. Both cost 60 AP.
>
>Captain Energy fires his blast at Dr. Density, who has a 20 rED
>defense. On average, Cap will do 28 stun and 8 body. Dr. Density
>will take 8 stun from the blast and 8 from the penetration, for a total
>of 16 stun. On his best day, Cap rolls straight 6's and does
>48 stun and 16 body. Doc takes 28 stun from the blast and 12 from the
>penetration for a total of 40 stun.
You're applying Penetrating incorrectly. It does not add the BODY
damage to the attack; rather, the BODY damage done is the minimum amount
that gets through non-resistant defenses. Captain Energy would do 8 and 28
STUN to Dr D on the above two rolls, respectively.
>Now, on another day, Wildman attacks Dr. Density. On average,
>he will roll 21 stun and 6 body, and apply that against only 10 rED.
>Doc will take 11 stun from the basic blast, and 6 stun form the
>penetration for a total of 17 stun. Not too different from Captain Energy.
>On -his- best day, Wildman rolls straight 6's and does 36 stun and 12
>body. Doc takes 26 stun and 2 body from the blast and 12 stun from
>the penetration, for a total of 38 stun and 2 body. Again, not
>wildly different from Captain Energy's attack.
And here, Wildman would do 11 and 26 STUN respectively.
Note that in these cases, the Penetrating didn't actually come into play
anywhere. Give Dr D 30 rED, though, and you'll start to see a difference.
>Consider Hero Guy, who just has a 12d6 attack. On average,
>his attack on Doc (poor Doc!) will result in Doc taking 22 stun.
>Hero Guy's best attack will result in Doc taking 52 stun and 4
>body.
This table will give the result for Dr D having 30 rED:
Roll Avg Max
Hero
Captain Energy 8 18
Wildman 6 21
Hero Guy 12 42
>The point is that these "advantages" are not only -not- imbalancing,
>they're often -less- effective than the unadvantaged naked attack.
On this, I tend to agree. Too many Advantages spoil the damage dice.
:-]
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------------------------------
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