Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 79
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 5:34 PM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #79
champ-l-digest Monday, December 7 1998 Volume 01 : Number 079
In this issue:
Re: Arctic Fox
Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: The Mountie
Re: Fun w/Nazis
Re: Character Comparisons
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
Re: An Array Type Question
Re: Magic Lock
Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: Take a look at these power concepts.
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
RE: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: Take a look at these power concepts.
Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
combat drones
Re: Magic Lock
Body of large objects (was Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds)
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: Character Comparisons
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:01:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Arctic Fox
> question: why do these people keep comind third?
Beg Pardon?
==
Laissez le bon pim roulez! Elliott aka Egyptoid
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:12:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
> Well the usual method is to have an engeue
> (beautiful woman of loose morals) slip him a mickey.
What is engeue? is it "ingenue" instead?
Where did you get that definition?
I already posted the mickey idea. :)
STUN, and REC Drain, gradual, continuing, IIF, etc.
With all these ideas, if this character ain't captured yet...
Where's the GM that started this thread?
Which idea did you use?
Main Entry: inˇgeˇnue
Variant(s): or inˇgéˇnue /'an-j&-"nü, 'än-; 'an-zh&-, 'än-/
Function: noun
Etymology: French ingénue, feminine of ingénu ingenuous, from Latin
ingenuus
Date: 1848
1 : a naive girl or young woman
2 : the stage role of an ingenue; also : an actress playing such a role
==
Laissez le bon pim roulez! Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 07:30:00 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
At 10:01 PM 12/6/98 -0500, Mike Christodoulou wrote:
>If the character in question receives his powers as the result of a
>change to his DNA, then he's a mutant. (Though what a "mutant detector"
>might be, I can't guess.) Spiderman often swears that he is not a mutant,
>but in fact, I think he is.
In the Marvel Universe, as I understand it, one must be born with the
genetic code in order to be considered a mutant. Otherwise, one is a
mu*tate*.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 08:24:01 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: The Mountie
At 07:21 PM 12/7/98 -0800, Rick Holding wrote:
>Dave Mattingly wrote:
>>
>> Mostly off-topic, but there's a Dudley Dooright live-action movie in the
>> works (starring Brendan Frazer as teh mountie).
>
> I'll just show my lack of currency with movie stars, but who is Brendan
>Frazer?
He also played the title character in "George of the Jungle."
It's interesting to note that, with these two films plus a Rocky and
Bullwinkle movie currently being cast, there seems to be a resurgence of
interest in Jay Ward's work recently. All we need now is a Tom Swift movie
(and I nominate Brendan Frazer for the role!).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 07:14:37 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Fun w/Nazis
At 04:59 PM 12/6/98 -0800, Jay P Hailey wrote:
>Howdy! you missed a couple of bits in your lyrics post-
>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Der Fuehrer's Face
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> When Der Fuehrer says, "We ist der master race"
>> We HEIL! HEIL! Right in Der Fuehrer's face
>
>After each "HEIL!" there is a wet, derisive raspberry.
Actually, on the Spike Jones recording, I believe they use a duck call
(or something similar, such as a clarinet mouthpiece removed from the
instrument) to simulate same.
Personally, though, I'm wondering where I can find the original German
lyrics (or, better yet, a direct English translation of same) of "Ode to
Joy," the fourth movement of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. (If you know,
please notify me off list; this has continued on the list a bit too long IMO.)
(Hey, is my musical taste varied, or what?) :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 07:09:36 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Character Comparisons
At 03:25 PM 12/6/98 -0600, J. Alan Easley wrote:
>I'm looking for a good method of ranking characters in overall power and
>effectiveness in combat. I have seen some on the net and am having trouble
>finding them again. If anyone has some could you please send me the URL or
>the formulae either off list or on if you feel anyone else would be
>interested. Thanks in advance.
The method I would use adapts a cross between Fuzion's Rule of X and an
article in an early Adventurers Club (which I have long since misplaced):
For offensive effectiveness, add the character's OCV, half his Skill
Levels, the Damage Class of his largest attack intended for normal use
(forget about Haymakers, Move Throughs, huge one-charge "desperation"
attacks, etc.), and the number of different attacks he has.
For defensive effectiveness, add the character's DCV, half his Skill
Levels, and one-sixth the sum of his PD and ED.
Of course, this is the "simple" version; a more detailed version would
include allowances for things like special defenses (Flash Defense, Power
Defense, etc.), Mental Powers, movement, and the like.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:25:30 -0600 (CST)
From: gilberg@ou.edu
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
>> Technically, it should be a combo phys lim/distinctive feature, but
>>DF is simpler for the bookkeeping.
>>
>
>DF sounds appropriate, especially if people are actively
>searching for mutants. I'm just always suspiscious of players
>inventing free points.
Yup. But there are also possible diseases that only affect mutants,
etc.
And they aren't free points in my campaign, as I make this a rather
important purchase. Actually, almost all mutants get 20 more for a hunted
by Genocide, possibly more for a watched by IMAGE. All come into play as
real disads for them, as well as affecting the other members of the team who
may not actually be mutants or hunted by Genocide.
Of course, your campaign may be different. It's balanced for mine,
but if the mutant thing isn't that important in yours, then a 5-10 pt DF may
be best.
-Tim Gilberg
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:48:58 -0600
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
I haven't used any yet; the game was postponed a week, but I think I'm
going with a variation on the "ingenue" thing. Not only does he have an
old "girlfriend", but there will probably also be someone else masquerading
as her.
Guy
- ----------
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 12:12 PM
> Well the usual method is to have an engeue
> (beautiful woman of loose morals) slip him a mickey.
What is engeue? is it "ingenue" instead?
Where did you get that definition?
I already posted the mickey idea. :)
STUN, and REC Drain, gradual, continuing, IIF, etc.
With all these ideas, if this character ain't captured yet...
Where's the GM that started this thread?
Which idea did you use?
Main Entry: inˇgeˇnue
Variant(s): or inˇgéˇnue /'an-j&-"nü, 'än-; 'an-zh&-, 'än-/
Function: noun
Etymology: French ingénue, feminine of ingénu ingenuous, from Latin
ingenuus
Date: 1848
1 : a naive girl or young woman
2 : the stage role of an ingenue; also : an actress playing such a role
==
Laissez le bon pim roulez! Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- ----------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 06:59:22 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: An Array Type Question
At 06:13 PM 12/6/98 -0800, Eric Chaves wrote:
>>At 01:11 AM 12/5/98 -0800, Eric Chaves wrote:
>>>
>>>I'm planning on developing a group of high-tec hocky-like villans and I had
>>>a question on the mechanics of a power. The SFX would be that any of the
>>>"hockey team" could pick up the "puck" and shoot it towards the heroes.
>>>There would only be one puck between the group. I'm planning to base it on
>>>a EB vs. PD but how would I mechanically base it on the whole group?
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance.
>>
>> I'm not 100% clear on what you're after here. Do you mean that there's
>>just one puck, and any one of the team can fire it? Or that any number of
>>team members can participate in the firing of a single puck, and the more
>>participants the more powerful the puck?
>
>
>Yes, there is one puck that can be passed between each of team. Each of
>the team members could "shoot" the puck at someone.
In this case, I go along with someone else's recommendation (sorry, I
forget who it was even though I just read it two minutes ago) of just
building it as a straight EB (or whatever) through a Focus and splitting up
the cost among the participants.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 98 19:42:29
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Magic Lock
On Sat, 05 Dec 1998 04:46:10 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>I'm trying to create a Fantasy Hero power that will magically lock and secure
>all the openings into a building (windows, doors, etc.).
>
>I've built it this way:
>
>40 STR Telekinesis, Area Effect , x2 area , uncontrolled,
> only to lock and secure doors and windows, 1 continuing
> 1-day charge.
>
>Problem is, this is mighty expensive for such a low-level power.
>Is there a better way to do this? Transform might lock the doors,
>but what keeps them magically held?
12 40 Str TK [Base 60], AE: Radius +1, Personal Immunity +1/4 [Active
135]
Only to secure entrances -1, 1 Continuing 1-day charge -0, Gestures
(-1/4)
Incantations -1/4, Concentration 0 DCV when casting -1/2, Static
OAF -2
Side Effects -1, Extra Time: 1 hour -2 1/2, RSR -1/2, x2 End -1/2
Req KS: Warding Lore 18- -1 No Range -1/2 [Total Lim -10]
Personally, I'd make it a 1 week charge for 150 Active and 13 Real.
Don't forget that this is going to be a Visible power: making it
Invisible would make it 180 AP and 16 Real.
But do you really need 40 Str TK?
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:47:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
Brian Wawrow writes:
> <snippage>
>
> Give me a break. I've scrapped FH monsters with more than 120 BOD, as
> well as damage reduction. That 100 million BOD looks about right to me.
> I'd also give a planet 75% resistant damage reduction and heavy regen.
> Yes, I realize that makes the Death Star very very expensive to buy but
> then you wouldn't want every two bit galactic empire to have their own
> death star, would you? I don't care what tables and charts you've got,
> the earth is something that we geologists refer to as Very Very Big. A
> football team has more than 120 BOD.
Heh. The problem with giving planets and the like huge amounts of body is that
the difference between 'minor damage' and 'destroy utterly' for most objects
shouldn't be more than 6 orders of magnitude. Given the scaling in the HERO
system, 6 orders of magnitude is 20 damage classes. As such, to get remotely
realistic results, most objects shouldn't have more than 20 body....
The trick to handling huge objects is to just give them higher defense, and
make it _unbypassable_. I just give large objects +1 DEF (including power) per
level of growth, and rule that _nothing_ can reduce this. As such, the earth
(6e+24 kilograms, or about 76 levels of grown) has 76 pts of defense, and need
not worry much about being blown up...
Not sure what sort of advantage 'unbypassable' is, never having used it on
anything but NPCs. I might just call it 10 pts/+1, and note that it applies
against NNDs and AVLDs as well.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:51:27 -0600
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
I haven't used any yet; the game was postponed a week, but I think I'm
going with a variation on the "ingenue" thing. Not only does he have an
old "girlfriend", but there will probably also be someone else masquerading
as her.
Guy
- ----------
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
To: hero-l@sysabend.org
Subject: Re: CAPTURING SOMEONE
Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 12:12 PM
> Well the usual method is to have an engeue
> (beautiful woman of loose morals) slip him a mickey.
What is engeue? is it "ingenue" instead?
Where did you get that definition?
I already posted the mickey idea. :)
STUN, and REC Drain, gradual, continuing, IIF, etc.
With all these ideas, if this character ain't captured yet...
Where's the GM that started this thread?
Which idea did you use?
Main Entry: inˇgeˇnue
Variant(s): or inˇgéˇnue /'an-j&-"nü, 'än-; 'an-zh&-, 'än-/
Function: noun
Etymology: French ingénue, feminine of ingénu ingenuous, from Latin
ingenuus
Date: 1848
1 : a naive girl or young woman
2 : the stage role of an ingenue; also : an actress playing such a role
==
Laissez le bon pim roulez! Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- ----------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 07:40:11 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
At 07:59 PM 12/7/98 -0800, Eric Wylie wrote:
>
>
>This brings up more questions. Is there really a difference between an
>individual born with a genetic mutation and an individual falling into the
>"vat of radioactive sludge?" I'm not seeing much of a difference here.
The difference is largely dependent on how the GM defines the world. In
the Marvel Universe, there's an "X-Factor" that allows mutants to have
super-powers instead of (or sometimes in addition to) super-medical bills.
This "X-Factor" is what can be detected, neutralized, etc. Whether you
have something similar in your game is up to you.
On a broader scale, there are radical groups like Genocide who see
mutants as a threat to mankind because they will continue to pass their
altered genes to their progeny, eventually wiping out "normal" humanity.
These outfits could scarcely care less about radioactive-sludge
paranormals, as long as those individuals don't pass their powers (or
something similar) on to their children. Again, whether such a group
exists in your game is up to you as GM.
>If superman were subjected to something more than a superficial medical
>exam, would he appear to have genetic mutations when compared to a norm?
>Would it be logical to presume that most aliens, while human in appearance,
>would appear quite different in a medical examination?
It would indeed by logical, though Supes et al would read as aliens
rather than as mutated humans. The Champions Universe has only a small
anti-alien group (the Exterminators, in Alien Enemies), compared to the
blanket threats faced by other superhero classes. Of course, again, what
you have in your own universe is up to you.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:14:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
this thread is triply fun for me:
1. I'm a long-time Python fan.
2. The Nazi's were heavily involved with the Spanish Civil War.
3. It's way off topic.
4. There is no fourth thing.
==
Laissez le bon pim roulez! Elliott aka Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 07:25:29 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
At 05:47 PM 12/7/98 -0800, Eric Wylie wrote:
>>>>
<excerpt>
<smaller>I'd like to hear how many of you define a mutant in your
Champions campaigns. At what point does a norm become a mutant? I have
a player who insists his character is not a mutant and I don't agree.
The character in question is a mini-superman; flight, super strength,
speed, n-ray, etc... The character is not an alien. The (limited)
background given is that he is a longshoreman that gained super powers
one day. I cannot get the player to explain this 'defining moment.' The
way I see it, if the character exceeds NHCM and/or can fly, see through
buildings, etc..., he has mutated beyond an ordinary person as is a
mutant. Do agree/disagree?
</smaller></excerpt><<<<<<<<
Well, the standard "comic book" definition of mutant is someone who is
born with a predisposition for super-powers. This usually means that the
person develops those powers at around the time of puberty.
My advice is to *require* that the player define what the character's
powers come from. If necessary, make a list of possibilities -- mutant,
exposure to magic, cosmic force, accident with radioactive chemicals,
etc. -- and have him pick one.
>>>>
<excerpt><smaller>In addition, if a character is a mutant in some way,
have you ever let a character have a perk of 'does not show up on mutant
detectors.' If so, how many points would this cost?
</smaller></excerpt><<<<<<<<
This depends on how you run mutant detection in the game. I think it
was Tim who mentioned "Detects as a Mutant" as a Distinctive Feature; in
this case, not detecting as a mutant would be simply not taking that DF.
On the other hand, if mutant characters don't get that DF but are still
detectable by a "Detect Mutant" Power, then this would be Invisibility vs
Detect Mutant (which, I think, costs pretty close to the same as buying
off that DF, depending on how you construct it and how big of a DF you
get).
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 08:13:48 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Take a look at these power concepts.
At 01:08 PM 12/7/98 +1000, Lockie wrote:
>>>>
<excerpt>Here are a few power concepts a player of mine came up with. . .
what do you think of them?
1: A multipower framework with 21 slots, with a 60 pt pool, all
apparently 'vampire powers'
(including raw stat bonuses and so forth), roughly half with ultra slots.
</excerpt><<<<<<<<
This one doesn't seem *too* bad, except for the "raw stat bonuses."
I'd seriously hesitate at any Characteristic in a Multipower, other than
STR (or possibly a combo of PD/ED).
>>>>
<excerpt>2: A character wth a set of multiforms specifically intended
(according to the player) to purchase
'as many powers as possible' for as cheap a price as possible (this for a
were-creature(not a shapeshifter for instance), as opposed to an
infinite-man or any sfx which would reasonably explain it, as far as i
could tell)
</excerpt><<<<<<<<
This is practically a confession to an attempt to dominate the game.
Given a reasonable SFX, I might allow such a thing, given the limitations
on Multiform (taking a half Phase to switch and all that). But the SFX
of "I want my character to have every Power in the book" is not
reasonable.
>>>>
<excerpt>3: A character with an 8d6 hka and a 12 spd who only had 12 def,
in a relativly standard superheroic campaign- at this juncture the player
stated that if his character was badly injured or died, it would have
more to do with my gm-ing style then his characters' shortcomings. All
of the characters powers were brought with various foci.
</excerpt><<<<<<<<
Is this the order in which these characters were submitted? They just
seem to get worse. 12 DEF is on the low side of acceptable, but 12 SPD
for a beginning character is just too much (though you could just
remember to carefully charge all the appropriate END for his actions).
And that 8d6 HKA is just too much -- that's 24 DCs, twice the normal
limit!
And to build such a character and blame whatever shortcomings on the
GM's style is just excessive. At this juncture I'd be very likely to
invite him to find a GM whose style he does appreciate.
>>>>
<excerpt>Upon stating over the months in turn that each of these power
constructs were invalid,
the player has insisted that I was the one comitting a protocol
transgression, despite my
specifically stating in advance that I reserved the right to reject any
power concept on inspection.
In each case the player neglected to reveal the construct in question
until the last
possible moment, and insisted that the amount of time he had spent
working on the
powers gave him some rights to use the character reguardless of my
objections. No
other player has made objections of any sort to my conduct in this or any
other game.
Question to the list, what would your own jugements be on these power
constructs as
far as wether they are valid, in terms of a normal superheroic setting.
Also, what type
of reaction would you have to a player with this attitude? I welcome any
sort
of response, positive, negative, or (like myself) mildly amused.
</excerpt><<<<<<<<
I have to go along with you every step of the way on this one, Jonesy.
This player, from what I can tell, is your basic twit.
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:24:51 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Mike Christodoulou wrote:
> At 07:33 PM 12/6/98 -0800, Jay P Hailey wrote:
> >Mutants in our game generally take a disad, "Show up on Mutant Scanners"
> >worth about 5 points. Although the results can be life threatening,
> >Genocide and the mutant scanners are rare enough not to allow any more of
> >a limitation.
>
> Ok ... Do you also give extra points for people who show up on
> human scanners or people who show up on redhead scanners or people
> who show up on flight scanners? Personally, I'd just call it part
> of the character conception. Now, if mutants are routinely hunted
> or persecuted throughout the campaign, that would be one thing. But
> free points just for showing up on a scanner?
Well, he did say that Genocide existed, and that being a mutant was
possibly life-threatening. For 5 points, I'd guess that most people don't
care about mutants one way or another, but there are some who do (and take
action against them). Being a mutant in the X-Men verse would probably be
worth a bit more, since it seems to cause a big reaction. Being a mutant
in the Age of Apocalypse would be worst of all, and worth big points.
Remember, a 5-pt DF is either 'easily concealed' or 'known only to a small
group of people' - in this case, the second, being 'those who have mutant
detectors'. And, of course, it's only worth a limitation because
obviously someone somewhere /cares/ that these people are mutants. If
nobody in the game cares that people are human or redheads, then they
probably aren't DFs.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 14:10:57 -0500
From: Mike Christodoulou <Cypriot@concentric.net>
Subject: RE: How do you define 'mutant'
At 06:43 AM 12/7/98 -0800, Filksinger wrote:
>> will do. A mutant is a creature whose DNA has been changed
>> in some manner.
>> Mutations actually occur periodically in any species, which
>> is the basis
>> of the whole Darwin thing. The mutation can be as subtle
>> as a slightly
>> elongated ear, or as dramatic as an extra limb.
>
>Not exactly. It is a creature whose DNA is different than its parents,
>but which was made different before birth by damage to the parent's
>reproductive cells.
>
Well, if I remember BIO 1001 correctly, it's not limited to a
birth defect. Any change to the DNA becomes a mutation. At that
point, it can be be a mutation that is passed along to future
generations (i.e. it hit the germ) or it can be a single-generation
mutation (i.e. it affects only the somatic cells).
I believe that Marvel Comics has made up the term "mutate" to
distinguish between mutations that occurred after fertilization and
those that occurred before.
In any case, whether or not a "mutant" (whatever the definition)
shows up on a "mutant detector" will depend on how that detector
is defined. Is it a scanning device that remotely decides magically
that a mutation has occurred? Does the device distinguish between
birth mutations and radiation accidents? Is it a blood analyzer that
can specifically pinpoint a particular "mutant gene"? Which mutant
gene would that be?
It will be up to the GM of that campaign to decide the specifics.
====================== =================================================
Mike Christodoulou "Never doubt that a small group of committed
Cypriot@Concentric.Net citizens can change the world. In fact, it is
(770) 662-5605 the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
====================== =================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 11:11:00 -0800
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Take a look at these power concepts.
> 1: A multipower framework with 21 slots, with a 60 pt pool, all
> apparently 'vampire powers'
> (including raw stat bonuses and so forth), roughly half with ultra
> slots.
This doesn't sound particularly bad, especially if the player is playing
a White Wolf-style vampire. I have never seen anything in actual vampire
lore/cinema/novelization that says anything about their increased stats
(when they have them at all) being "off" while they use other powers
outside of White Wolf: a super-strong, hypnotic vampire does not lose
strength when dominating your will. Even in WW, you can do several of
these things at once. It sounds like points may be being shaved, but I'd
need to see the character sheet.
21 powers is a lot, though.
> 2: A character wth a set of multiforms specifically intended
> (according to the player) to purchase
> 'as many powers as possible' for as cheap a price as possible (this
> for a were-creature(not a shapeshifter for instance), as opposed to an
> infinite-man or any sfx which would reasonably explain it, as far as i
> could tell)
If that's what the player has told you, then while an interesting
exercise in mathematics and game knowledge it doesn't sound like an
appropriate character. I wouldn't denounce it out of hand, but more
discussion sounds necessary: there is nothing inherently wrong with
coming up with powers and then a character conception. Well, ok, it's
not as good as the other way, but it can still work.
> 3: A character with an 8d6 hka and a 12 spd who only had 12 def, in a
> relativly standard superheroic campaign-
That is way too powerful and lethal for any game I've run. It sounds
like it is for your game, as well, so it can't be allowed.
> at this juncture the player
> stated that if his character was badly injured or died, it would have
> more to do with my gm-ing style then his characters' shortcomings.
He's just trying to manipulate you. If you're going to run around being
both that lethal and that undefended (is the defense Resistant, at
least?), you are asking to be killed. He's expecting the GM not to hurt
him just because he's a PC. The first time he comes across someone with
a Reflection power who has a good enough OCV to succeed against this
power, he's toast. And that's his own fault for buying an attack so
large he can't defend against it.
> All of the characters powers were brought with various foci.
I'll bet he'll start complaining if he ever loses them for more than the
length of a fight (and maybe during the fight: "Why are the villains
always targetting the OAF for my 8d6 HKA? You're just out to get me!").
Admitedly, I could be wrong, since I don't know the fellow.
> Upon stating over the months in turn that each of these power
> constructs were invalid,
> the player has insisted that I was the one comitting a protocol
> transgression, despite my
> specifically stating in advance that I reserved the right to reject
> any power concept on inspection.
Did you state any of the criteria you would automatically reject? Like
8d6 HKA? If not, well, you're still absolutely in the right. Just
something to keep in mind for next time.
> In each case the player neglected to reveal the construct in question
> until the last
> possible moment, and insisted that the amount of time he had spent
> working on the
> powers gave him some rights to use the character reguardless of my
> objections.
He's absolutely right. He has every right to use the character in spite
of your objections. Just not in your game. I probably wouldn't put it
that way unless and until you want him to leave the group and never
return, though.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:51:28 -0600
From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
Of course, it's for my JUSTICE, INC. campaign, so it's not off-topic at
all.
- ----------
> From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
> To: champ-l@sysabend.org
> Subject: Re: NEED IDEAS: FUN WITH NAZIS
> Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 2:14 PM
>
> this thread is triply fun for me:
>
> 1. I'm a long-time Python fan.
> 2. The Nazi's were heavily involved with the Spanish Civil War.
> 3. It's way off topic.
> 4. There is no fourth thing.
> ==
> Laissez le bon pim roulez! Elliott aka Egyptoid
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:24:59 -0500
From: Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com>
Subject: combat drones
Hi,
I've been toying lately with some different ways of building combat
drones. These could take just about any shape. In a FH game they might
be animated bladed metal balls or animated statues, in a hi-tech game
they could be hovering lasers that shoot at targets defined by a set of
criteria given by their owner.
In any case, debate has resulted in the following possible mechanics to
use.
Follower: This is the most obvious way to approach
the idea. You would buy a follower with X amount of shrinking, relevant
automaton powers, detection and attack.
Vehicle w/ Computer: Hotly debated. It's not a vehicle in the sense
that you can't get in and drive around but the mechanics of a vehicle
with an autopilot computer work well for a drone like this. You'd buy a
basic vehicle and apply persistent shrinking to it. The computer has a
set program and may become confused if a situation falls outside it's
normal parameters
Attack w/ Homing: This is the one I like. The homing rules
available on the Digital Hero site allow for a self-guided continuous
attack. This is by far the simplest way to approach this if what you
want is a drone that's a one-trick pony. You buy the attack w/
Continuous & Homing, using the Homing options: Self Guided, Superior
Homing, Physical and whatever else you deem relevant.
So, has anybody done much with this kind of thing? Have you found one
method to be superior to the others? Taking the drone as a follower
would certainly add more versatility to it but buying it as a homing
attack could be really cheap if you crank on some disads.
Opinions? Analysis?
BRI
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 14:44:30 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Magic Lock
At 07:42 PM 12/7/98 +0000, qts wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Dec 1998 04:46:10 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>
>>I'm trying to create a Fantasy Hero power that will magically lock and
secure
>>all the openings into a building (windows, doors, etc.).
>>
>>I've built it this way:
>>
>>40 STR Telekinesis, Area Effect , x2 area , uncontrolled,
>> only to lock and secure doors and windows, 1 continuing
>> 1-day charge.
>>
>>Problem is, this is mighty expensive for such a low-level power.
>>Is there a better way to do this? Transform might lock the doors,
>>but what keeps them magically held?
>
>12 40 Str TK [Base 60], AE: Radius +1, Personal Immunity +1/4 [Active
>135]
> Only to secure entrances -1, 1 Continuing 1-day charge -0, Gestures
>(-1/4)
> Incantations -1/4, Concentration 0 DCV when casting -1/2, Static
>OAF -2
> Side Effects -1, Extra Time: 1 hour -2 1/2, RSR -1/2, x2 End -1/2
> Req KS: Warding Lore 18- -1 No Range -1/2 [Total Lim -10]
>
>Personally, I'd make it a 1 week charge for 150 Active and 13 Real.
>
>Don't forget that this is going to be a Visible power: making it
>Invisible would make it 180 AP and 16 Real.
>
>But do you really need 40 Str TK?
I believe I do, if I want the door to be largely impervious to the strength
of people with strengths in the 20-25 range. And Either 150 or 180 AP
for such a minor power is -ridiculous-. That was my original problem.
I know -how- to construct the power; I was asking for help in constructing
it with fewer AP.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Hold it the greatest wrong to prefer life to honor
and for the sake of life to lose the reason for living."
Juvenal, Satires
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 13:00:21 -0800
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Body of large objects (was Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds)
> The trick to handling huge objects is to just give them higher defense, and
> make it _unbypassable_. I just give large objects +1 DEF (including power) per
> level of growth, and rule that _nothing_ can reduce this. As such, the earth
> (6e+24 kilograms, or about 76 levels of grown) has 76 pts of defense, and need
> not worry much about being blown up...
I tend not to think of objects of planetary size (or Star Destroyer
size, or most vehicles, for that matter) to have a single body score,
but a body score per hex of the material. That's how base walls are
written up, and it always seemed natural to me to do planets and most
other large objects that way, as well. It makes a vehicle harder to
destroy in a single shot, but allows without GM intervention or changes
to the rules blowing holes in the walls and so on.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 20:39:51 GMT
From: samael@clark.net (Acid Rainbow)
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
On Mon, 07 Dec 1998 07:30:00 -0800, Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
sent these symbols into the net:
> In the Marvel Universe, as I understand it, one must be born with the
>genetic code in order to be considered a mutant. Otherwise, one is a
>mu*tate*.
o/~ You say Mutet, I say Mutayte, let's call the whole thing off. o/~
Sorry, I couldn't resist, and This is not _really_ a reply to your post,
Bob.
**********************************************************************
*Lissajous patterns and windmills and don't ask about the connection.*
* Acid Rainbow: Semi-professional windmill-tilter. *
**********************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:03:47 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Character Comparisons
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>"JAE" == J Alan Easley <alaneasley@email.com> writes:
>
>JAE> I'm looking for a good method of ranking characters in overall power
>JAE> and effectiveness in combat.
>
>Look at his OCV and DCV, the total DCs he has in his attacks, and his DEF.
>
>It really is that simple.
Actually...it's not. Things like Invisibility, Find Weakness and SPD can
have far more impact than one would think.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 11:56:34 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
At 11:42 AM 12/7/98 -0500, Mike Christodoulou wrote:
>At 07:33 PM 12/6/98 -0800, Jay P Hailey wrote:
>>Mutants in our game generally take a disad, "Show up on Mutant Scanners"
>>worth about 5 points. Although the results can be life threatening,
>>Genocide and the mutant scanners are rare enough not to allow any more of
>>a limitation.
>
>Ok ... Do you also give extra points for people who show up on
>human scanners or people who show up on redhead scanners or people
>who show up on flight scanners? Personally, I'd just call it part
>of the character conception. Now, if mutants are routinely hunted
>or persecuted throughout the campaign, that would be one thing. But
>free points just for showing up on a scanner?
Well, that also depends on if something can be done about mutant powers
as a category that wouldn't affect other powers -- like a Suppress vs All
Mutant Powers, or some such.
But you are correct in that a non-specific DF like this would have to
represent some social or tactical disadvantage to be valid.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:01:22 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
>>>well, check out TUSV when it's out, plus
>>>i may place a link to my 3da system on the list
>>>if i get it onto a page before christmas. In it, each *hex*
>>>has a body score. ..
>>
>>Not sure that makes sense though. After all, giant monsters and robots are
>>often more than one hex, but they still only have one Body score.
>>
>
>
>wel, it sets things up in tables including all the hexes, plotting
>movement of projectiles in terms of modules, hulls and superstructure. .
What I'm saying is you shouldn't have sudden huge difference between, say, a
80 hex robot, an 80 hex monster, and a 80 hex starship. If either of the
former has a grand total 40 Body, and the latter has 20 Body (or even 10
Body) per hex, something is screwy.
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #79
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Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 01:51 PM