Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 80
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 12:49 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #80
champ-l-digest Tuesday, December 8 1998 Volume 01 : Number 080
In this issue:
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
RE: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: combat drones
Re: combat drones
Re: Character Comparisons
Re: combat drones
Re: combat drones
Re: The Mountie
Durability of Various Things
Re: combat drones
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
Re: Character Comparisons
Re: Take a look at these power concepts.
Jay Ward movies (Re: The Mountie)
Re: combat drones
Re: combat drones
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: Magic Lock
Re: combat drones
Re: AP/Penetrating question
Re: Character Comparisons
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: Durability of Various Things
Re: combat drones
Re: Take a look at these power concepts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:27:07 -0600 (CST)
From: Rick Jones <rick@blkbox.com>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Bob Greenwade wrote:
> The difference is largely dependent on how the GM defines the world. In
> the Marvel Universe, there's an "X-Factor" that allows mutants to have
> super-powers instead of (or sometimes in addition to) super-medical bills.
> This "X-Factor" is what can be detected, neutralized, etc. Whether you
Close. Let me quote from the rec.arts.comics.xbooks FAQ
The reason there are mutants on Earth comes from Marvel cosmology.
Large, alien gods, called Celestials (who some say are but the
incarnations of the dreams of Eternity) visit all planets that
will bear life, early in the planet's existance. There they perform
genetic tinkering with the early life that will, if everything
works out right, leave the species on the planets with three distinct
superhuman bloodlines: Eternals (who never suffer random mutations),
Deviants (who always suffer mutations in each generation), and the
normal folks. It's the normal folks that concern us, now, for in
them the Celestials left a special genetic trigger that would
allow some normals to gain superhuman powers after exposure to odd
events (like the Fantastic Four, the Hulk, or Spider-Man), and in
others would self-trigger when exposed natally to sufficient
background radiation which would make the child a mutant. When
it's self-triggered, that genetic trigger is called the X-Factor.
Now the X-Factor only makes a mutant when it's self-triggered.
Something happens to it when it does so that it becomes different
than the same gene that allowed Spider-Man or the Fantastic Four
to gain their powers; mutants show up on mutant detectors (which
look for the unique signature of the X-Factor), while Spider-Man
doesn't. Mutants also give off unique brain patterns due to the
X-Factor that enable telepaths who know what to look for (like
Professor X) to detect mutants far more easily than normal humans
or non-mutant superheroes. Devices that nullify mutant powers by
negating the X-Factor are useless against non-mutants as well.
In the Marvel Universe, not only are mutants folks who are born with their
powers, but there's an additional genetic key that singles them out. In
most other comics universes (DC, ferinstance) mutants are just folks who
are born with their powers (Jericho of the New Teen Titans is probably
the most famous DC mutant), and there's nothing else special about them.
- --
Rick Jones Babylon 5 was the last of the Babylon stations. There would
rick@blkbox.com never be another. It changed the future, and it changed us. It
taught us that we had to create the future, or others will do
it for us.
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/ --Ivanova,Babylon 5, Sleeping In Light
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:10:06 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: RE: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
><snippage>
>
>Give me a break. I've scrapped FH monsters with more than 120 BOD, as
>well as damage reduction. That 100 million BOD looks about right to me.
>I'd also give a planet 75% resistant damage reduction and heavy regen.
>Yes, I realize that makes the Death Star very very expensive to buy but
>then you wouldn't want every two bit galactic empire to have their own
>death star, would you? I don't care what tables and charts you've got,
>the earth is something that we geologists refer to as Very Very Big. A
>football team has more than 120 BOD.
>
>If you come around to my way of thinking, it results in a great sense of
>security and well being. Even if there's a plane crash today [great big
>move through], the Earth keeps turning. Yaaaaay! Earth!
I simply think it's not consistent with other parts of the system, and
particularly in superheroic or space opera campaigns can cause all kinds of
ugly border conditions. Frankly, breaking the Earth into Hexes doesn't help
much anyway; in that approach, someone simply takes, say, a 6D6KA and buys
it Radius with a pile of area multiples.
BYTB, the plane crash/move through thing often brought up is a bogeyman,
since the plane would have to have a 90 DEF+BODY to do that sort of damage
anyway.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 13:46:05 -0800
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
> > Ok ... Do you also give extra points for people who show up on
> > human scanners or people who show up on redhead scanners or people
> > who show up on flight scanners? Personally, I'd just call it part
> > of the character conception. Now, if mutants are routinely hunted
> > or persecuted throughout the campaign, that would be one thing. But
> > free points just for showing up on a scanner?
In fact, I would give extra points for people to show up on people
scanners, if I'm running an Invasion of the Body Snatchers game where
the BS (heh) won and humans are underground, for example. I might not
give points for red hair, but what about for having green eyes in a
world where Lo Pan lurked about?
In any event, I generally would use such a mutant detector as detecting
energies being used, not the mutant, unless such a Distinctive Features
was taken. There are sufficient drawbacks to it even in a relatively
moderate universe that doesn't hate mutants that it could be worth
points, like not being able to pretend you're someone else that is not a
mutant, not being able to compete against ordinary humans in sporting
events, and so on. Somewhat hard to maintain a normal life, too: you'd
have to be careful or you're likely to be discovered.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:05:20 -0600 (CST)
From: Rick Jones <rick@blkbox.com>
Subject: Re: combat drones
Brian Wawrow wrote:
> I've been toying lately with some different ways of building combat
> drones. These could take just about any shape. In a FH game they might
> Follower: This is the most obvious way to approach
> the idea. You would buy a follower with X amount of shrinking, relevant
> automaton powers, detection and attack.
This is pretty darn expensive. The automaton powers really jack up the
price.
> Vehicle w/ Computer: Hotly debated. It's not a vehicle in the sense
If you can't get in and drive, it ain't a vehicle, IMHO.
> So, has anybody done much with this kind of thing? Have you found one
My gadgeteer made the following gizmo. Not much use vs supers, but pretty
good vs agents:
Blazing Hornet Swarm:
4d6 EB (completely indirect, 5x Autofire, -1/2 cannot pass through solid
objects, -1/4 not in winds or rain).
Special effect is a swarm of flying balls, each with a 1 shot laser in it.
You could put charges on 'em, but that gets expensive and my gadgeteer has
a huge END battery for his gizmos.
A buddy of mine suggested dropping it down to a 2d6 NND EB, which would
allow it to be more effective vs supers.
Another gadgeteer I had, this one based on The Great and Powerful Turtle
bought "Clairsentience (sight/sound) with the special effect being
"Turtle levitates a video camera around".
If you want it to have some sort of autopilot and not depend on the
gadgeteer for control, I'd say you'd need to build a follower.
- --
Rick Jones Babylon 5 was the last of the Babylon stations. There would
rick@blkbox.com never be another. It changed the future, and it changed us. It
taught us that we had to create the future, or others will do
it for us.
http://www-ece.rice.edu/~rickj/ --Ivanova,Babylon 5, Sleeping In Light
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:27:59 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: combat drones
>Hi,
>
>I've been toying lately with some different ways of building combat
>drones. These could take just about any shape. In a FH game they might
>be animated bladed metal balls or animated statues, in a hi-tech game
>they could be hovering lasers that shoot at targets defined by a set of
>criteria given by their owner.
I've been thinking about this too, as my girlfriend may be interested in
playing a Champions character something like a Shadowrun Rigger, and her big
offensive ability would be based on remotes.
>
>In any case, debate has resulted in the following possible mechanics to
>use.
>
>Follower: This is the most obvious way to approach
>the idea. You would buy a follower with X amount of shrinking, relevant
>automaton powers, detection and attack.
>
>Vehicle w/ Computer: Hotly debated. It's not a vehicle in the sense
>that you can't get in and drive around but the mechanics of a vehicle
>with an autopilot computer work well for a drone like this. You'd buy a
>basic vehicle and apply persistent shrinking to it. The computer has a
>set program and may become confused if a situation falls outside it's
>normal parameters
Personally, I often tend to use the Vehicle Rules to build automatons
anyway, as they're slightly more coherent, though with a few problems.
>
>Attack w/ Homing: This is the one I like. The homing rules
>available on the Digital Hero site allow for a self-guided continuous
>attack. This is by far the simplest way to approach this if what you
>want is a drone that's a one-trick pony. You buy the attack w/
>Continuous & Homing, using the Homing options: Self Guided, Superior
>Homing, Physical and whatever else you deem relevant.
Problem is there ought to be _some_ way to damage the drone. I think I'd
want to base it on a focus, Clairvoyance, and Indirect, with an extra
Limitation to represent the fact the Focus has to be within firing range
which it normally wouldn't be. The Homing might be necessary for
autonomous drones of the sort you seem to be talking about...how does it work?
------------------------------
Date: 07 Dec 1998 18:23:37 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Character Comparisons
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"WS" == Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com> writes:
WS> Actually...it's not. Things like Invisibility, Find Weakness and SPD
WS> can have far more impact than one would think.
If you are looking for a quick and dirty method it is.
If you want something that can take everything into account, there is a
simpler method: look over the character sheet and wing it. No 'Rule of X'
is going to be able to accurately encompass the breadth of possibility
inherent in the Hero system without becoming more complex than the system
itself.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 14:19:52 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: combat drones
At 03:24 PM 12/7/98 -0500, Brian Wawrow wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I've been toying lately with some different ways of building combat
>drones. These could take just about any shape. In a FH game they might
>be animated bladed metal balls or animated statues, in a hi-tech game
>they could be hovering lasers that shoot at targets defined by a set of
>criteria given by their owner.
>
>In any case, debate has resulted in the following possible mechanics to
>use.
>
>Follower: This is the most obvious way to approach
>the idea. You would buy a follower with X amount of shrinking, relevant
>automaton powers, detection and attack.
This is both the most obvious way, and the "classic" way. If you feel
comfortable with it, I'd recommend it.
>Vehicle w/ Computer: Hotly debated. It's not a vehicle in the sense
>that you can't get in and drive around but the mechanics of a vehicle
>with an autopilot computer work well for a drone like this. You'd buy a
>basic vehicle and apply persistent shrinking to it. The computer has a
>set program and may become confused if a situation falls outside it's
>normal parameters
In TUV I present something very similar to this as an "alternate" way of
doing stuff very like this. You'd just give the Vehicle INT and possibly
EGO, and build it with negative Size (rather than Persistent Shrinking).
If you want, you could even give it the Physical Limitation "Non-Vehicular
Robot."
>Attack w/ Homing: This is the one I like. The homing rules
>available on the Digital Hero site allow for a self-guided continuous
>attack. This is by far the simplest way to approach this if what you
>want is a drone that's a one-trick pony. You buy the attack w/
>Continuous & Homing, using the Homing options: Self Guided, Superior
>Homing, Physical and whatever else you deem relevant.
I'd agree that this is the best way to handle a quick, one-shot attack,
though I don't know if it'd be accurate for a "combat drone" like what you
describe above, with even limited ability to respond tactically.
>So, has anybody done much with this kind of thing? Have you found one
>method to be superior to the others? Taking the drone as a follower
>would certainly add more versatility to it but buying it as a homing
>attack could be really cheap if you crank on some disads.
>
>Opinions? Analysis?
On the whole, it really depends on what exactly you're going to do with
it, and what you want it to be capable of.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: 07 Dec 1998 18:29:29 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: combat drones
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"BW" == Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com> writes:
BW> Follower: This is the most obvious way to approach
BW> Vehicle w/ Computer: Hotly debated. It's not a vehicle in the sense
These are the two most likely ways I would handle it. A vehicle does not
require a cockpit or pilot. It has a lifting capacity based on its
Strength, nothing more unless the special effects say otherwise.
Remember that Followers have minds of their own.
BW> Attack w/ Homing: This is the one I like. The homing rules
I dislike this approach immensely, but that is probably because one of my
favorite Shadowrun characters was a drone rigger :).
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ When not in use, Happy Fun Ball should be
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ returned to its special container and
\ kept under refrigeration.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 18:15:49 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Re: The Mountie
> He also played the title character in >"George of the
Jungle." It's interesting to note >that, with these two films plus a
Rocky and
>Bullwinkle movie currently being cast, there >seems to be a resurgence
of interest in Jay >Ward's work recently.
The renewed interest in Jay Ward as live-action fodder has been going on
for some time; prior to all these there was a flick called BORIS AND
NATASHA featuring Dave Thomas and Sally Kellerman, with a very brief
mention of Moose-n-Squirrel.....
"'You mean something ripped him open and ate out his insides?"
"Like an Oreo cookie...except, you know, without the chocolate-y cookie
goodness."
--Buffy and Willow, BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
An except from the new story "My Worst Break Up" can now be found at
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj
------------------------------
Date: 07 Dec 1998 18:19:01 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Durability of Various Things
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Given the thread, I figured I'd bring up a little bit of benchmarking
sanity.
Last night, four of us were in a friend's Cherokee, stopped at a light,
when we were hit by a guy on a motorcycle. He was going about 25mph, and
what as there were no skid marks on the road to be seen afterwards, he
never braked (he probably didn't have time).
The motorcycle hit the left rear corner of the Cherokee, straight from
behind. The impact moved it four or five feet, even with the driver's foot
on the brake. The left rear light array was demolished, and the body was
creased up to the driver's door. No apparent frame damage. Nobody in the
vehicle was hurt.
The motorcycle's polycarbonate fairing disintegrated on impact, sending
shards flying for a good 50 feet along with the radiator and most of of the
engine. The forks were twisted out of shape. A three-inch long shard of
the fairing was embedded in the glass-reinforced plastic tailgate of the
Cherokee. The bike itself stopped dead on impact.
The rider was thrown about twenty feet; two more and he would have taken a
header into the guard rail. Assuming no spinal injuries (he was able to
move his toes on both feet when the EMTs put him on the back board), the
worst he took was a broken femur, and that looked to be a clean break.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover
\ head.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:09:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: combat drones
Stainless Steel Rat writes:
>
> Remember that Followers have minds of their own.
It's not obvious that followers can't be automatons (in which case they really
don't have minds of their own). That's probably the best balanced way, since
it deals with the problem of vehicle DEF being way too cheap.
Yet another option is summon, though you have to do something about the
standard rules for hostility from summoned entities. I personally somewhat
favor:
+1/4: summoned entity is not hostile
+1/2: summoned entity is friendly.
+3/4: summoned entity is loyal, at the level of an irrational psychlim.
+1: summoned entity is totally devoted.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 18:30:29 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
> On a broader scale, there are radical >groups like
Genocide who see mutants as a >threat to mankind because they will
continue >to pass their altered genes to their progeny, >eventually
wiping out "normal" humanity. >These outfits could scarcely care less
about >radioactive-sludge paranormals, as long as >those individuals
don't pass their powers (or >something similar) on to their children.
Again, >whether such a group exists in your game is >up to you as GM.
This might be a bit off-topic, but I never understood how people like
Genocide could say 'mutants are wrong, but you other freaks are okay.'
Human-firsters should be scared of ALL 'natural' metas, because all
metas might have the potential to pass on their altered physiology.
I recently began introducing a new threat to the VC PBeM called Black
Rain that is devoted to destroying ALL paranormals, for they both
threaten to put humanity in a second class status, and because they
devalue the 'true' heroism of the common man.
Of course, as Matt can attest, our Universe is pretty dark--and this
sort of threat might not be appropriate for the game you're playing.
"'You mean something ripped him open and ate out his insides?"
"Like an Oreo cookie...except, you know, without the chocolate-y cookie
goodness."
--Buffy and Willow, BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
An except from the new story "My Worst Break Up" can now be found at
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:30:28 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Perfect Cell vs Devourer of Worlds
>> That's the problem with a ruddy doubling scale. it is a problem, just like
>> the ability to take out a car with one .50 caliber bullet.
>
>That not a problem, so long as the world/car is populated with NPC's.
>The only problem is when is a PC is in the car then, if the scrip calls for
>it, the car could survive a direct hit by an ICBM :)
We obviously have different definitions of "problem" here. :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:25:10 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Character Comparisons
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>"WS" == Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com> writes:
>
>WS> Actually...it's not. Things like Invisibility, Find Weakness and SPD
>WS> can have far more impact than one would think.
>
>If you are looking for a quick and dirty method it is.
I think anything that ignores SPD, at least, is too quick and dirty to be
useful.
>
>If you want something that can take everything into account, there is a
>simpler method: look over the character sheet and wing it. No 'Rule of X'
>is going to be able to accurately encompass the breadth of possibility
>inherent in the Hero system without becoming more complex than the system
>itself.
I'll agree you can't get perfection, but you can get a lot closer than that
without being cumbersome.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 07:24:55 -0800
From: jayphailey@juno.com (Jay P Hailey)
Subject: Re: Take a look at these power concepts.
>Question to the list, what would your own jugements be on these power
>constructs as far as wether they are valid, in terms of a normal
superheroic
>setting.
They look abusive to me. The Cyberpunk players have a word for this.
"Munchkin" The Munchkin doesn't care for role playing or play balance or
anything that makes RPGs fun to a rational, mature mind. He wants his
character to waste everything in his path without breaking a sweat as a
salve to the players own pathetic self esteem.
>Also, what type of reaction would you have to a player with this
attitude? I >welcome any sort of response, positive, negative, or (like
myself) mildly >amused.
I would say "See ya! Don't let the door hit you in the *ss on the way
out!"
Just me, though.
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!>
"A B C D E-F-G. Eric the half a bee......"
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 20:32:36 -0500
From: "Dave Mattingly" <dave@haymaker.win.net>
Subject: Jay Ward movies (Re: The Mountie)
> It's interesting to note that, with these two films plus a Rocky and
>Bullwinkle movie currently being cast, there seems to be a resurgence of
>interest in Jay Ward's work recently. All we need now is a Tom Swift movie
>(and I nominate Brendan Frazer for the role!).
I didn't know about the Bullwinkle movie, but there was a Boris and Natasha
movie a few years ago with Dave Thomas and Sally Kellerman that was
excellent.
As for Tom Swift, here's my favorite Tom Swiftie: "Aw geez, I dropped my
toothpaste," Tom said, crestfallen.
ObHero: Toothpaste: +2 COM, continuing charges: 6 hours (or until next
meal), OAF, gestures to begin, extra time 1 turn to begin.
Dave Mattingly
http://haymaker.org
------------------------------
Date: 07 Dec 1998 20:09:46 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: combat drones
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"AJ" == Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:
AJ> It's not obvious that followers can't be automatons (in which case they
AJ> really don't have minds of their own).
Champions Deluxe, page 48:
Followers should normally be written up by the GM, just like
DNPCs. They are loyal to the character, although the GM should
determine whether the Follower will perform suicidal tasks.
AJ> That's probably the best balanced way, since it deals with the problem
AJ> of vehicle DEF being way too cheap.
And is utterly wrong for the desired effect, at least in most circumstances.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 17:46:59 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: combat drones
At 06:29 PM 12/7/98 -0500, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
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>
>"BW" == Brian Wawrow <bwawrow@mondello.toronto.fmco.com> writes:
>
>BW> Follower: This is the most obvious way to approach
>BW> Vehicle w/ Computer: Hotly debated. It's not a vehicle in the sense
>
>These are the two most likely ways I would handle it. A vehicle does not
>require a cockpit or pilot. It has a lifting capacity based on its
>Strength, nothing more unless the special effects say otherwise.
Pardon the picking of a nit, but a Vehicle has a *carrying* capacity
based on its STR. A Vehicle cannot lift, in the sense that a regular
character can lift, unless it has arms of some sort. :-]
>Remember that Followers have minds of their own.
That's assuming that they're built as regular characters. If they're
built as Automatons, then they don't have minds of their own.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 17:53:13 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
At 06:30 PM 12/7/98 -0500, thomas deja wrote:
>
> > On a broader scale, there are radical >groups like
>Genocide who see mutants as a >threat to mankind because they will
>continue >to pass their altered genes to their progeny, >eventually
>wiping out "normal" humanity. >These outfits could scarcely care less
>about >radioactive-sludge paranormals, as long as >those individuals
>don't pass their powers (or >something similar) on to their children.
>Again, >whether such a group exists in your game is >up to you as GM.
>
>This might be a bit off-topic, but I never understood how people like
>Genocide could say 'mutants are wrong, but you other freaks are okay.'
>Human-firsters should be scared of ALL 'natural' metas, because all
>metas might have the potential to pass on their altered physiology.
While other metas "might have the potential," mutants would almost
certainly pass on their alterations.
Also, part of the mentality is an "us/them" way of thinking and a high
value on "genetic purity," similar to the mindset of the Nazis and the KKK.
If mutants represent a separate species that is destined to supplant
humans, then it falls upon responsible humans to protect the human species,
and especially prevent any interbreeding (since a mutant mating with a
human will always produce a mutant, just as many real-world white
supremacists believe that a non-white -- of any sort -- mating with a white
will always produce a non-white).
- ---
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 07:18:44 -0800
From: jayphailey@juno.com (Jay P Hailey)
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
>This brings up more questions. Is there really a difference between
>an individual born with a genetic mutation and an individual falling
into
>the "vat of radioactive sludge?" I'm not seeing much of a difference
>here.
Well, the main real difference is whether to character was born with
powers or the potential for them, or had the powers added later.
Admittedly an esoteric point, but that's where it cuts. Someone born
with powers or who manifests with no outside cause is a mutant, someone
changed by an outside force is a mutate or "Accidental"
>If superman were subjected to something more than a superficial
>medical exam, would he appear to have genetic mutations when compared to
a
>norm?
Well there's a difference between humans who are different from the norm
and people who were never human to begin with. I guess.
>Would it be logical to presume that most aliens, while human in
>appearance, would appear quite different in a medical examination?
That depends on the character. In our game we have dimensional travel.
One group of PCs/NPCs is human except that they come from a dimension
where humans developed mental powers (Mentalist world). So are they
humans, or aliens?
In a previous post I said that mutants have a specific gentic tag. These
mentalists do not trigger sensors that look for this tag, even though
their brain physiology is very slightly different from human norm.
Uhh. For the purposes of the game I have assumed that telepathy is a
latent ability for all humans. So these mentalist people are merely a
littler over developed in this area.
>(Sory folks, I come from a comic deficient childhood. I'm not
>familiar with comic heroes outside the most popular.)
>
>Regards,
>Eric.
Ahhhh. Go read some comics then. You'll find that the internal logic
of them is nothing if not... maleable...
Jay P. Hailey <Meow!>
"A B C D E-F-G. Eric the half a bee......"
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 19:24:46 -0800
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: Magic Lock
> I know -how- to construct the power; I was asking for help in constructing
> it with fewer AP.
I haven't seen anyone post the flaw with buying it as an Entangle yet:
no need for all of the advantages to keep it going, seels the doors by
slapping a Defense and Body (or one or the other, with the right
limitations) on the locks, and so on. But I assume there is a problem
with it.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 19:43:37 -0800
From: James Jandebeur <james@javaman.to>
Subject: Re: combat drones
> AJ> It's not obvious that followers can't be automatons (in which case they
> AJ> really don't have minds of their own).
>
> Champions Deluxe, page 48:
>
> Followers should normally be written up by the GM, just like
> DNPCs. They are loyal to the character, although the GM should
> determine whether the Follower will perform suicidal tasks.
I missed something: I don't see how this quote refutes the previous
statement. The GM should determine whether the Follower will perform
suicidal tasks. If the Follower is an automaton drone, it could be
determined to do so. It's all up to the GM.
Which is not to say I would allow it, it sounds to powerful for the
point costs in many cases.
JAJ, GP
------------------------------
Date: 07 Dec 1998 22:28:26 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: AP/Penetrating question
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"Rat" == Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> writes:
Rat> No; you can buy multiple levels of Armor Piercing, but you cannot buy
Rat> multiple levels of Penetrating (unless the GM institutes a house rule).
Correction: Champions Deluxe, under Hardened (instead of Penetrating where
it should be), it states that Hardened can be purchased multiple times to
negate multiple levels of Penetrating.
Gah! I *HATE* having *THREE* conflicting instances of what is supposed to
be the same edition of the game.
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\
------------------------------
Date: 07 Dec 1998 22:52:33 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Character Comparisons
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"WS" == Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com> writes:
WS> I'll agree you can't get perfection, but you can get a lot closer than
WS> that without being cumbersome.
I obviously disagree. There is too much possibility in Hero for a simple
formula to accurately approxmate all characters' combat potential. There
are simply too many 'breaking pitches'.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
\ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 22:29:34 -0600
From: Robert Harrison <rharriso@iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
If somebody acquired super-strength from falling in a vat of
radioactive sludge (or being bitten by a radioactive spider), mutation
wasn't the mechanism for this. The same mutation that confers
super-strength would have to occur in every cell (or almost every cell) in
the person's muscles, which is highly unlikely. It is more likely that
this person will sire offspring with super-powers, as his or her germ-line
cells (spermatozoa/oocytes) presumably will acquire mutations, and these
mutations will occur in every cell of the progeny that arise from the
mutated germ cells. A post-fertilization/development event that causes the
same mutation to occur in every cell of an individual would require a
rather fanciful explanation. Hence, a more plausible origin for Eric's
player's character is that the longshoreman's father had a "radiation
accident" which mutated his germ-line, and the longshoreman inherited
mutated genes that were activated by (high hormone titers during
adolescence? stressful situation? some other environmental insult?),
resulting in superpowers.
Then again, this is the comic book super-hero genre we're talking
about, so I guess adherence to real-world genetics is optional.
____________________________
Robert L. Harrison
Department of Entomology
411 Science II
Iowa State University
Phone: (515) 294-3963
Fax: (515) 294-5957
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:11:41 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
>This might be a bit off-topic, but I never understood how people like
>Genocide could say 'mutants are wrong, but you other freaks are okay.'
>Human-firsters should be scared of ALL 'natural' metas, because all
>metas might have the potential to pass on their altered physiology.
Ah, but that's the kicker; there's no particular sign that other metahumans
will breed true, or even breed other metahumans. In the worlds where
mutants exist, they _explicitly_ do the latter at least.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 22:34:33 -0600
From: Todd Hanson <badtodd@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Durability of Various Things
Rat, I'm disappointed in you.
No breakdown in champs terms as to the amount of body done to the
Cherokee, cycle and rider? ;)
Actually, seriously, it would be interesting to compare how this 'real
world' matches up to Champs terms. If you were to build the bike, the
Cherokee and recreate the accident, would the results be the same in
Champs? (ie, minimal body done to the Cherokee, total destruction of
the cycle and (apparently) minimal body to the driver of the bike?)
Todd
------------------------------
Date: 07 Dec 1998 23:36:45 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: combat drones
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"BG" == Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com> writes:
BG> Pardon the picking of a nit, but a Vehicle has a *carrying* capacity
BG> based on its STR. A Vehicle cannot lift, in the sense that a regular
BG> character can lift, unless it has arms of some sort. :-]
Lift in the vehicular sense. For instance, a half-ton pickup can lift a
half-ton of stuff.
>> Remember that Followers have minds of their own.
BG> That's assuming that they're built as regular characters. If
BG> they're built as Automatons, then they don't have minds of their own.
They are still under the control of the GM, not the player, even if they
are automatons.
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
\ Earth, presumably from outer space.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 23:32:02 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Take a look at these power concepts.
At 09:04 PM 12/6/98 -0800, you wrote:
>My response to those abominations?
>
>"Get thee from my sight, and darken not my gaming table again!"
>
>Remember:The GM is God. End of story. The GM has a right to limit,
>control, contain, etc, any concept, power, or character, in order to
>preserve his idea of the world he's running. It's the responsibility
>of the player to work *with* the GM in order to create a character
>which is a)interesting to the player and, b)suitable for the GM and
>the campaign world.
>
>In the group I'm in, there tends to be a lot of email of 'drafts' of
>characters back and forth prior to actual gameplay. This not only
>eliminates nasty surprises at the gaming table, but you end up with
>characters which are fully integrated into the world.
>
>
And it gives the GM a chance to correct any campaign-specific mistakes. My
first Hero GM said of my first character "You don't need to spend nearly so
much on EGO. Mind control is very rare." Of my second character, "I
rebuilt him and saved you abot 45 points, here's how I suggest you spend
them." My third character we were never happy with. We both knew what I
wanted, but the game reflected it poorly.
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #80
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