Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 89
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 1998 7:01 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #89
champ-l-digest Sunday, December 13 1998 Volume 01 : Number 089
In this issue:
Re: Rename The Dead Heroine Contest
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: Rename The Dead Heroine Contest
Re: Rename The Dead Heroine Contest
I have decided.
Re: Rename The Dead Heroine Contest
Re: Interrupted thread EMP
Re: Multiple Actions
Re: Rename The Dead Heroine Contest
Re: Rename The Dead Heroine Contest
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: Interrupted thread EMP
Re: Rename The Dead Heroine Contest
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: Multiple Actions
Re: I finally decided on...Independent Limitation
It makes my head hurt (Force Field Reversed)
Re: Interrupted thread EMP
Re: It makes my head hurt (Force Field Reversed)
Re: It makes my head hurt (Force Field Reversed)
Re: It makes my head hurt (Force Field Reversed)
Re: It makes my head hurt (Force Field Reversed)
Questions on Usable By Others, Usable Against Others and Focus
Re: How do you define 'mutant'
Re: It makes my head hurt (Force Field Reversed)
Re: Multiple Actions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:48:37 -0500 (EST)
From: tdj723@webtv.net (thomas deja)
Subject: Re: Rename The Dead Heroine Contest
>Paragon was a Caucasian female, a minor
> league psionic, who was also a fairly good
> tinkerer/computer jockey. She was known for
> her physical beauty and confident manner.
> She was a member of Columbia, the world's
> preeminent superteam, based in Washington
> DC.
Well, my first impulse for a comuuter literate psionic is to call her
Hardwire--but that might not be 'femme' enough for your purposes. How
about Gossamer (I'm not quite sure what her psi abilities are, but
Gossamer is always a good femme name for someone with subtle--i.e.
mental--powers)
"'You mean something ripped him open and ate out his insides?"
"Like an Oreo cookie...except, you know, without the chocolate-y cookie
goodness."
--Buffy and Willow, BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
____________________________________
THE ULTIMATE HULK, containing the new story, "A Quiet, Normal Life," is
available now from Byron Preiss and Berkley
_______________________________
An except from the new story "My Worst Break Up" can now be found at
MAKE UP YOUR OWN DAMN TITLE
www.freeyellow.com/members/tdj
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:51:02 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
- -----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
>>>It's a particular fool's errand to pursue real world science to much in a
>>>superhero game. It just doesn't work.
>>>
>>
>>Well, technically anything is 'scientifically' possible, especially
>>if you insert an 'out concept' like hyperspace. Actual contradictions
>>with specific science are common in all areas, including the real world.
>>As it is, science can also be an aid to concept formation- just look
>>at the 'orbital generator' idea posted recently. .
>
>Quite arguably, if you insert such a concept you aren't talking about
>science. After all, following that logic you can solve anything by use of
>one deus ex machina explanation (such as 'magic').
>
nope- magic doesn't follow the laws of physics, or does it? gunpowder is
magic in some settings.
Science is not the sum total of the juge-ers approved theories. it's a
method involving
causality, observation, replicable events, and so forth.
>I do agree with your second point, however; a real scientific principal can
>often give you a nice springboard to start your pseudo-scientific bafflegab
>off of.
>
helll, ANY tyhing beats the star treck rationale. . i consider b5 to be a
step above them, more plausabe in general, more cohesive.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 13:53:09 PST
From: "Jesse Thomas" <haerandir@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
>On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Dr. Nuncheon wrote:
>
>> My college gaming group had a running joke that the way the Marvel
>> populace could tell a mutant (so they knew who to hate & why) was
because
>> the lines on their palm formed an 'M'. It was as good an idea as
any, I
>> s'pose...
>>
>> J, wondering if it's made any funnier if you knew that about
>> 3/4 of the group had an 'M' in our palm-lines...
>
No 'M' on my palm, but does a 'W' mean anything?
Jesse Thomas
haerandir@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:30:28 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Rename The Dead Heroine Contest
At 11:24 PM 12/11/98 -0800, sbennie@dowco.com wrote:
>I'm working on a book for Hero Plus, and there's a minor problem I could
use some
>help with. I originally had a superheroine named Paragon, but there's a
prominent
>"hero" in San Angelo with the same name, and I'd rather not duplicate the
same name
>for the character.
>
>Since this is my first post on this list, I thought I'd run it by you.
Paragon was
>a Caucasian female, a minor league psionic, who was also a fairly good
>tinkerer/computer jockey. She was known for her physical beauty and confident
>manner. She was a member of Columbia, the world's preeminent superteam,
based in
>Washington DC.
The name that comes right to my mind is Mindgamer. (The tinkering and
computer work take a good mind, and of course the psionics would as well.)
As to others' responses (that I've seen so far): The correct spelling
would be Epitome; and there's already a Champions Universe character named
Hardwire (I'll look up where if asked).
Oh, and welcome to the list, Scott! And it's good to know you're still
writing new stuff for Hero.... :-]
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:08:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: Re: Rename The Dead Heroine Contest
On Sat, 12 Dec 1998, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> The name that comes right to my mind is Mindgamer. (The tinkering and
> computer work take a good mind, and of course the psionics would as well.)
> As to others' responses (that I've seen so far): The correct spelling
> would be Epitome; and there's already a Champions Universe character named
> Hardwire (I'll look up where if asked).
> Oh, and welcome to the list, Scott! And it's good to know you're still
> writing new stuff for Hero.... :-]
I vote "Morning Star" for no other reason than I like the name.
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:13:15 -0600
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Subject: I have decided.
Recently I posted several questions to this list. One was concerning Special
Effects.
I decided to go with the majority and rule that Battlearmor Guy's Power Defense would
work against Timelord's drain. I do not know if I am going to make Battlearmor Guy take
any limitations on his Power defense at this time, but I probably won't.
I also posted a question about specialized skills.
The way I read the BBB Survival is a generic skill that does not have to be
specified. Therefore, I am going to rule that a character would need Survival and then
PS: Survival in Particular Enviroment.
Thank you to all who replied to my questions.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:14:59 EST
From: ErolB1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rename The Dead Heroine Contest
Off the top of my head...
Real Name: Angelica Jones
Code Name: "Silver Angel"
****************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-12-12 02:32:58 EST, sbennie@dowco.com writes:
> 'm working on a book for Hero Plus, and there's a minor problem I could use
> some
> help with. I originally had a superheroine named Paragon, but there's a
> prominent
> "hero" in San Angelo with the same name, and I'd rather not duplicate the
> same name
> for the character.
>
> Since this is my first post on this list, I thought I'd run it by you.
> Paragon was
> a Caucasian female, a minor league psionic, who was also a fairly good
> tinkerer/computer jockey. She was known for her physical beauty and
> confident
> manner. She was a member of Columbia, the world's preeminent superteam,
> based in
> Washington DC.
>
> [Eventually, she had a falling out with her team after she started publicly
> putting
> down the tobacco industry after both her parents died of lung cancer,
teamed
> up
> with a time travelling super-soldier whom she encouraged to attack tobacco
> lobbyists and execs; in response, a tobacco industry executive hired their
> own
> assassin who eventually killed her.]
>
> So any names?
>
> Scott Bennie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:21:15 -0600
From: redbf@ldd.net (bobby farris)
Subject: Re: Interrupted thread EMP
"Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" wrote:
> At 12:46 AM 12/12/1998 -0600, you wrote:
> >
> > Just for your information. I looked at what an EMP did and changed
> > power to:
>
> Thanks for letting me know what you decided on for the EMP. Let's see now...
>
> > 8d6 Suppress (40 AP) all powers with SFX "electrical Circuits" (+2)
> > Area Effect Radius (+1)
> > Personal Immunity (+1/4)
> > Reduced Endurance 0 (+1/2), and Persistant (+1/2).
> >
> >Expensive, but nasty like an EMP should be.
>
> Wow, 210 AP! Yeah, that's expensive. One question: I can see that with
> Persistent, the affected circuits cannot even try to recover until the
> power is turned off or the circuit is moved out of the effective range of
> the EMP (17" radius, if I've got this figured right)...but how are you
> simulating circuits that burn out? Suppress doesn't do any actual damage,
> so all EMP-suppressed circuits do get to recover eventually?
> Damon
Ummm, the way I understood it to work is that when the character went out
of the Suppress Area of Effect, his powers would still be Supressed. I imagined
it kinda like an area effect Drain. Sure you get out of the area and your not
loosing anymore points, however you don't get back what has been drained.
If I am wrong with this I will have to re-look at how I bought it. I am
unsure on the ruling for this. If I am wrong, I think the way to fix it is to buy
the powers as a Drain, and buy the recover way done, thus simulating that the
circuits are burned out.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 98 22:38:00
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Multiple Actions
On Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:49:52 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>I'm still working on FH spells, and I've got an effect I'd like help in
>modelling.
>
>The spell creates several little floating fireballs, which the caster can
>send off all at once, or one at a time. The balls will follow enemies
>around corners and so on. The balls can be attacked independantly.
>That part's easy.
>
>What I -also- want to do is allow him to send off the fireballs on succeeding
>rounds with only a thought, without interfering with his ability to take
>actions on those succeeding rounds.
How about using a Continuing charge? You'd actually have two spells -
one for the all at once (Autofire + Charges) and one for the one at a
time (Continuous Charge). A tightly limited Variable Advantage will
cover this nicely.
2d6 RKA [30] Variable Advantage (+1 1/2) - only Autofire or Continuous
(-2 on VA only),
4 Charges (-1)
Add in foci, etc to taste.
75 Active, 27 (=15+12) Real
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 98 19:41:01
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Rename The Dead Heroine Contest
On Fri, 11 Dec 1998 23:24:02 -0800, sbennie@dowco.com wrote:
>I'm working on a book for Hero Plus, and there's a minor problem I could use some
>help with. I originally had a superheroine named Paragon, but there's a prominent
>"hero" in San Angelo with the same name, and I'd rather not duplicate the same name
>for the character.
>
>Since this is my first post on this list, I thought I'd run it by you. Paragon was
>a Caucasian female, a minor league psionic, who was also a fairly good
>tinkerer/computer jockey. She was known for her physical beauty and confident
>manner. She was a member of Columbia, the world's preeminent superteam, based in
>Washington DC.
>
>[Eventually, she had a falling out with her team after she started publicly putting
>down the tobacco industry after both her parents died of lung cancer, teamed up
>with a time travelling super-soldier whom she encouraged to attack tobacco
>lobbyists and execs; in response, a tobacco industry executive hired their own
>assassin who eventually killed her.]
>
>So any names?
How about Polygon? Because she had so many facets and is as dead as the
parrot in *that* sketch.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 04:55:40 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Rename The Dead Heroine Contest
> As to others' responses (that I've seen so far): The correct spelling
>would be Epitome; and there's already a Champions Universe character named
>Hardwire (I'll look up where if asked).
That's what I get for posting when I'm half asleep and have been thinking
about the word epiphany. :)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 04:52:58 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
>>Quite arguably, if you insert such a concept you aren't talking about
>>science. After all, following that logic you can solve anything by use of
>>one deus ex machina explanation (such as 'magic').
>>
>
>nope- magic doesn't follow the laws of physics, or does it? gunpowder is
>magic in some settings.
>Science is not the sum total of the juge-ers approved theories. it's a
>method involving
>causality, observation, replicable events, and so forth.
All of which can fit magic in some settings; magic doesn't have to be
'unscientific' in operation, just in premise ("There is an energy from
beyond this dimension that people can tap under the right circumstances.
This includes use of proper ritual and ceremonial behavior...")
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 04:57:58 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: Interrupted thread EMP
> Ummm, the way I understood it to work is that when the character
went out
>of the Suppress Area of Effect, his powers would still be Supressed. I imagined
>it kinda like an area effect Drain. Sure you get out of the area and your not
>loosing anymore points, however you don't get back what has been drained.
> If I am wrong with this I will have to re-look at how I bought it. I am
>unsure on the ruling for this. If I am wrong, I think the way to fix it is
to buy
>the powers as a Drain, and buy the recover way done, thus simulating that the
>circuits are burned out.
Nope, Suppress only operates while the power is targetted on the target;
once it's turned off, everything comes instantly back. That's what
distinguished s it from Drains.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:51:01 -0600
From: "Logan Darklighter" <logand@cyberramp.net>
Subject: Re: Rename The Dead Heroine Contest
- -----Original Message-----
From: qts <qts@nildram.co.uk>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org&> sbennie@dowco.com
<sbennie@dowco.com>
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: Rename The Dead Heroine Contest
>On Fri, 11 Dec 1998 23:24:02 -0800, sbennie@dowco.com wrote:
>
>>I'm working on a book for Hero Plus, and there's a minor problem I could
use some
>>help with. I originally had a superheroine named Paragon, but there's a
prominent
>>"hero" in San Angelo with the same name, and I'd rather not duplicate the
same name
>>for the character.
>>
>>Since this is my first post on this list, I thought I'd run it by you.
Paragon was
>>a Caucasian female, a minor league psionic, who was also a fairly good
>>tinkerer/computer jockey. She was known for her physical beauty and
confident
>>manner. She was a member of Columbia, the world's preeminent superteam,
based in
>>Washington DC.
>>
>>[Eventually, she had a falling out with her team after she started
publicly putting
>>down the tobacco industry after both her parents died of lung cancer,
teamed up
>>with a time travelling super-soldier whom she encouraged to attack tobacco
>>lobbyists and execs; in response, a tobacco industry executive hired their
own
>>assassin who eventually killed her.]
>>
>>So any names?
>
>How about Polygon? Because she had so many facets and is as dead as the
>parrot in *that* sketch.
OUCH!!
"I'm sorry sir, I've been deliberately wasting your time."
"Well I'm sorry but I'm going to have to shoot you now."
"Righto sir."
BLAMM!!
"What a senseless waste of human life."
- -Logan
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable
game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective
of any of the other players,* to being involved in an obscure and complex
version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite
stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who
_smiles all the time_."
-Neil Gaimen and Terry Pratchett
_Good Omens_
*i.e., everybody.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
Web page: http://www.cyberramp.net/~logand/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:19:30 +1000
From: "Lockie" <jonesl@cqnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
- -----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Shaw <shaw@caprica.com>
To: champ-l@sysabend.org <champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
>
>>>Quite arguably, if you insert such a concept you aren't talking about
>>>science. After all, following that logic you can solve anything by use
of
>>>one deus ex machina explanation (such as 'magic').
>>>
>>
>>nope- magic doesn't follow the laws of physics, or does it? gunpowder is
>>magic in some settings.
>>Science is not the sum total of the juge-ers approved theories. it's a
>>method involving
>>causality, observation, replicable events, and so forth.
>
>All of which can fit magic in some settings; magic doesn't have to be
>'unscientific' in operation, just in premise ("There is an energy from
>beyond this dimension that people can tap under the right circumstances.
>This includes use of proper ritual and ceremonial behavior...")
>
>
and like i said
'it went bang! it must be magic!'
-and as it is, that's ok, a science about magic is fine by me.
and i'd like to see you measure such a vague concept in scientific terms On
the other hand, if it had some kind of ambient em properties, that could be
tracked predicably, that'd be another matter. . .
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 19:14:48 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Multiple Actions
At 10:38 PM 12/11/98 +0000, qts wrote:
>On Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:49:52 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>
>>I'm still working on FH spells, and I've got an effect I'd like help in
>>modelling.
>>
>>The spell creates several little floating fireballs, which the caster can
>>send off all at once, or one at a time. The balls will follow enemies
>>around corners and so on. The balls can be attacked independantly.
>>That part's easy.
>>
>>What I -also- want to do is allow him to send off the fireballs on
succeeding
>>rounds with only a thought, without interfering with his ability to take
>>actions on those succeeding rounds.
>
>How about using a Continuing charge? You'd actually have two spells -
>one for the all at once (Autofire + Charges) and one for the one at a
>time (Continuous Charge). A tightly limited Variable Advantage will
>cover this nicely.
>
>2d6 RKA [30] Variable Advantage (+1 1/2) - only Autofire or Continuous
>(-2 on VA only),
> 4 Charges (-1)
>
>Add in foci, etc to taste.
>
>75 Active, 27 (=15+12) Real
Is this the way Continuous works? I'd understood that Continuous
only allows you to continue attacking without a new roll when you
attack the same target. I had never understood it to mean that you
could attack as a 0-phase action, leaving you open to do other things
on the succeeding rounds, which is what I'm trying to achieve.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Hold it the greatest wrong to prefer life to honor
and for the sake of life to lose the reason for living."
Juvenal, Satires
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 20:13:54 EST
From: Leuszler@aol.com
Subject: Re: I finally decided on...Independent Limitation
In a message dated 12/11/98 4:24:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, Damon writes:
> I'd like to ask a small favor of those players and GM's among
> ] us who post
> ] "How would you..." type questions to the list.
> ]
> ] After the flurry of different suggestions, variations on
> ] variations, and
> ] interpretation of applicable rules has died down, let us know how you
> ] decided to handle it in the end.
As for my powersuit guy and having his suit have an overall independent
limitation... Nope. Not gonna happen. It just makes it too easy to get
points, and most of the nasty stuff that can be done to the character can be
done without the limitation.
Mike L.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 22:18:22 -0500
From: "Michael Sprague" <msprague@eznet.net>
Subject: It makes my head hurt (Force Field Reversed)
A new player in our group is creating her first character, and she has an
idea that makes my head hurt.
She want's a Force Field, 1 Hex Area Effect, Ranged, and Usable by Others.
This way she can protect herself and/or others at range. I can live with
this.
Next, she points out that Force Field allows you to "dampen" incoming, while
allowing you to "shoot" out of them at full power. In the future, she would
like the ability to "reverse" her Force Field, such that if she puts it
around a person, all their attacks are affected by the force field, but
attacks targeted on this person would hit at full strength.
On one hand I am trying to explain why the power doesn't work that way, but
on the other hand, it does sort of make sense. Obviously, one would need
the "Usable Against Others" advantage. And for that matter, there is
nothing to stop the target from moving out of the targeted hex.
To actually do this, I think she would use a Multi Power, with two slots,
one for each specific use.
Anyway, I'm torn on the issue. We did tell her to come up with what she
wanted, and we could make it work. What would you do or suggest?
~ Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 21:45:51 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Interrupted thread EMP
At 10:21 AM 12/12/1998 -0600, bobby farris wrote:
>> Wow, 210 AP! Yeah, that's expensive. One question: I can see that with
>> Persistent, the affected circuits cannot even try to recover until the
>> power is turned off or the circuit is moved out of the effective range of
>> the EMP (17" radius, if I've got this figured right)...but how are you
>> simulating circuits that burn out? Suppress doesn't do any actual damage,
>> so all EMP-suppressed circuits do get to recover eventually?
>> Damon
>
> Ummm, the way I understood it to work is that when the character
went out
>of the Suppress Area of Effect, his powers would still be Supressed. I
imagined
>it kinda like an area effect Drain. Sure you get out of the area and your not
>loosing anymore points, however you don't get back what has been drained.
Oops! We may have both been wrong here (I certainly was). Failing to
actually go read the entry for Suppress, I confused it with Drain. Wayne
is of course correct: Powers must recover gradually from Drains, but can be
used again immediately when the Suppress is turned off or no longer in range.
What you're probably thinking of is the fact that *if* all the Active
Points in a Power are successfully Suppressed, then once the Suppress is
removed, the Power is inactive and will have to be restarted. In many
cases, this is no big deal, but if the affected Power involves such
Limitations as Extra Time, Concentration, Activation Roll...or if it's in a
VPP that only allows the character to switch Powers under certain
circumstances...that could be a big problem.
If none of the battlesuit's circuits have these sorts of Limitations, then
even fully Suppressing them won't destroy them, just turn them off --
probably just until the character's next Phase. At that point, Battlesuit
Guy should be able to reactivate the formerly-Suppressed circuits in the
same way he normally activates them.
> If I am wrong with this I will have to re-look at how I bought it.
I am
>unsure on the ruling for this. If I am wrong, I think the way to fix it is
to buy
>the powers as a Drain, and buy the recover way done, thus simulating that the
>circuits are burned out.
Okay, let's see how Drain works out:
8d6 Suppress (80 AP) all powers with SFX "electronic circuits" (+2)
Drained points return at 5 AP/Day (+2 1/2)*
Area Effect Radius (+1)
Personal Immunity (+1/4)
Reduced Endurance 0 (+1/2), and Persistant (+1/2)
On the plus side, the EMP now has an effective radius of 54" instead of
17". On the minus side, this is now a 620 AP Power, nearly three times as
expensive as the version you described before. Even cutting the base
Active Points in half (4d6 Suppress, all other Advantages as listed)...310
AP still seems like a huge expense for a single Power.
* I guessed at the recovery rate you might use, but given that you're using
this to simulate a destroyed circuit, which will never actually recover on
its own, this is the minimum value I could see using.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 23:06:59 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Re: It makes my head hurt (Force Field Reversed)
At 10:18 PM 12/12/98 -0500, Michael Sprague wrote:
>A new player in our group is creating her first character, and she has an
>idea that makes my head hurt.
>
>She want's a Force Field, 1 Hex Area Effect, Ranged, and Usable by Others.
>This way she can protect herself and/or others at range. I can live with
>this.
>
>Next, she points out that Force Field allows you to "dampen" incoming, while
>allowing you to "shoot" out of them at full power. In the future, she would
>like the ability to "reverse" her Force Field, such that if she puts it
>around a person, all their attacks are affected by the force field, but
>attacks targeted on this person would hit at full strength.
>
>On one hand I am trying to explain why the power doesn't work that way, but
>on the other hand, it does sort of make sense. Obviously, one would need
>the "Usable Against Others" advantage. And for that matter, there is
>nothing to stop the target from moving out of the targeted hex.
>
>To actually do this, I think she would use a Multi Power, with two slots,
>one for each specific use.
>
>Anyway, I'm torn on the issue. We did tell her to come up with what she
>wanted, and we could make it work. What would you do or suggest?
You're getting special effect and power mixed up. The power she describes
is a suppress. She can say that the suppress is a special effect of her force
field, but the power force field does not work that way.
Force Field power: No
Force Field special effect: Yes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Hold it the greatest wrong to prefer life to honor
and for the sake of life to lose the reason for living."
Juvenal, Satires
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 20:10:06 -0800
From: Scott Bennie <sbennie@dowco.com>
Subject: Re: It makes my head hurt (Force Field Reversed)
How about making it a second multipower slot, an Entangle, with the +1/2
transparent to incoming damage advantage, and a -1/2 limitation that the
Entangle only prevents outgoing attacks, but doesn't affect movement or hinder
combat values, a -1/4 limitation for a Constant Power costing END every phase
(not sure what the book value is on this), and maybe a -1/4 limitation for the
entangle goes away when the other slot in the multipower is used or the
character is stunned, or knocked unconscious?
Either that, or buy it as a Drain or a Supress.
Hope this helps.
Scott Bennie
Michael Sprague wrote:
> A new player in our group is creating her first character, and she has an
> idea that makes my head hurt.
>
> She want's a Force Field, 1 Hex Area Effect, Ranged, and Usable by Others.
> This way she can protect herself and/or others at range. I can live with
> this.
>
> Next, she points out that Force Field allows you to "dampen" incoming, while
> allowing you to "shoot" out of them at full power. In the future, she would
> like the ability to "reverse" her Force Field, such that if she puts it
> around a person, all their attacks are affected by the force field, but
> attacks targeted on this person would hit at full strength.
>
> On one hand I am trying to explain why the power doesn't work that way, but
> on the other hand, it does sort of make sense. Obviously, one would need
> the "Usable Against Others" advantage. And for that matter, there is
> nothing to stop the target from moving out of the targeted hex.
>
> To actually do this, I think she would use a Multi Power, with two slots,
> one for each specific use.
>
> Anyway, I'm torn on the issue. We did tell her to come up with what she
> wanted, and we could make it work. What would you do or suggest?
>
> ~ Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 22:44:23 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: It makes my head hurt (Force Field Reversed)
At 10:18 PM 12/12/1998 -0500, Michael Sprague wrote:
>A new player in our group is creating her first character, and she has an
>idea that makes my head hurt.
>
>She want's a Force Field, 1 Hex Area Effect, Ranged, and Usable by Others.
>This way she can protect herself and/or others at range. I can live with
>this.
>
>Next, she points out that Force Field allows you to "dampen" incoming, while
>allowing you to "shoot" out of them at full power. In the future, she would
>like the ability to "reverse" her Force Field, such that if she puts it
>around a person, all their attacks are affected by the force field, but
>attacks targeted on this person would hit at full strength.
Does this mean that she expects the target to take maximum damage from any
incoming attack? If so, I wouldn't allow that, in part because it's not
justified by the simple reversal of the Force Field. A Force Field works
something like Armor, and just absorbs 'x' number of points worth of PD or
ED. Reversing the Force Field should just add 'x' amount of damage to the
incoming attack, not guarantee a maximum result. If the Force Field
usually works vs. PD, for example, it could work by subtracting kinetic
energy from incoming blows (dissipating the energy throughout the field
around the character). The reversed field would *add* a like amount of
kinetic energy to incoming blows.
Let's see, assuming a 15 point Force Field...
Energy Blast, STUN Only, 15d6 (a number of dice equal to the number of
points in the Force Field), Penetrating (+1/2), Only 1 pip of STUN damage
per die (-2), Only to add to another attack -0.
113 Active Points, Real Cost 37 (unless you use the Multipower you mentioned.)
Adding in the parameters the player specified for the normal Field:
Energy Blast, STUN Only, 15d6 (a number of dice equal to the number of
points in the Force Field), AoE:One-hex (+1/2), Ranged (+1/2), UAO (+1),
Penetrating (+1/2), Only 1 pip of STUN damage per die (-2), Only to add to
another attack -0.
262 Active Points, Real Cost 87.
(175 Active Points, Real Cost 58 for a 10-point, rather than 15-point, Field.)
The combination of Penetrating and "Only 1 pip per die" guarantees that 1
and only 1 point of damage will get through the target's non-resistant
defenses; it'll dish out exactly as much damage as it would normally have
protected against. Since the average STUN damage is about 3 points per
1d6, the Limitation means only one-third of the average damage will ever
occur, and that seems to justify the large (-2) value. The Limitation
"Only to add to another attack" isn't worth any points, but it's there to
remind the player that the character can't hurt someone just by throwing a
reversed Force Field at them. The reversed Field can't direct kinetic
energy at the target, just amplify any kinetic energy so directed.
There may be justification for one more (-1/4, probably) Limitation on the
above construct, if you limit the additional damage done by the reversed
Field, not only by the strength of the field itself, but *also* by the
strength of the incoming attack. In other words, you have a 15-point dleiF
ecroF (reversed Force Field -- hee, hee) which is hit by an incoming blow
doing 1d6 normal damage. Die roll indicates 6 points of STUN from the
blow; the Force Field would only be countering 6 points of damage in this
case, so the dleiF ecroF can only *add* 6 points of damage in this case,
not 15.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 22:36:56 -0800
From: Christopher Taylor <ctaylor@viser.net>
Subject: Re: It makes my head hurt (Force Field Reversed)
>Next, she points out that Force Field allows you to "dampen" incoming, while
>allowing you to "shoot" out of them at full power. In the future, she would
>like the ability to "reverse" her Force Field, such that if she puts it
>around a person, all their attacks are affected by the force field, but
>attacks targeted on this person would hit at full strength.
>
>Anyway, I'm torn on the issue. We did tell her to come up with what she
>wanted, and we could make it work. What would you do or suggest?
sounds like a suppress to me, suppresses outgoing attacks, but a spendy one :)
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Sola Gracia Sola Scriptura Sola Fide
Soli Gloria Deo Solus Christus Corum Deo
- -----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 03:06:13 -0500
From: Scott Nolan <nolan@erols.com>
Subject: Questions on Usable By Others, Usable Against Others and Focus
Still working on FH spells. Still encountering questions.
The description of the "Usable Against Others" advantage mentions that it
includes inanimate objects, and gives an example of being able to teleport
inanimate objects away if that power were bought with this advantage. This
implies to me that the designers intended this passage as an example of how
to create an offensive power with this advantage.
There is no mention of inanimate objects under the "Usable By Others"
advantage; it mentions only characters. How, after all, would an inanimate
object -use- a power like teleport?
Now, let us suppose I wanted to build a magic, fiery rock (I don't, but play
along). I would use the Focus limitation on an energy blast, like this:
6d6 Energy Blast, Explosion, No Range, Obvious Accessible Focus,
0 Endurance, Persistant.
The power is not "usable" by the rock. The rock is merely the focus of the
power. Come near, the rock, get burned.
But what about powers requiring Line of Sight?
I want to build a power that will cause people to pay no attention to the
inanimate object that the subject of the power (that's right, all you
grammarians - the object is the subject). It isn't invisible; people can
see and remember it - just not well. They pay no attention to it without
strong reason.
I'd like to buy it thusly:
7d6 Mind Control, Telepathic Command (Ignore Me), Obvious Accessible
Focus, 0 End Persistant.
But this ignores the requirement that Mind Control have a Line of Sight.
Should
I therefore use Usable Against Other? Why? I'm not using it -against- the
object. How's about Usable By Other?
Opinions?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Hold it the greatest wrong to prefer life to honor
and for the sake of life to lose the reason for living."
Juvenal, Satires
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Scott C. Nolan
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 16:48:56 -0800 (PST)
From: shaw@caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Subject: Re: How do you define 'mutant'
>and like i said
>'it went bang! it must be magic!'
> -and as it is, that's ok, a science about magic is fine by me.
>and i'd like to see you measure such a vague concept in scientific terms On
>the other hand, if it had some kind of ambient em properties, that could be
>tracked predicably, that'd be another matter. . .
Doesn't have to be trackable by other methods to be predictable and
demonstrable. If I can produce results with it on a consistent basis, show
how I'm doing it (even if others can't duplicate the results
routinely...after all, there's nothing about science that requires someone
without the proper tools to be able to test for it...if there was, neutrinos
would be 'unscientific'), get the same results (more or less) every time I
do it, and explain the theory of it in a way consistent with the results,
then it's science. Even if the rational is magical.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 98 11:13:01
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: It makes my head hurt (Force Field Reversed)
On Sat, 12 Dec 1998 22:18:22 -0500, Michael Sprague wrote:
>A new player in our group is creating her first character, and she has an
>idea that makes my head hurt.
>
>She want's a Force Field, 1 Hex Area Effect, Ranged, and Usable by Others.
>This way she can protect herself and/or others at range. I can live with
>this.
>
>Next, she points out that Force Field allows you to "dampen" incoming, while
>allowing you to "shoot" out of them at full power. In the future, she would
>like the ability to "reverse" her Force Field, such that if she puts it
>around a person, all their attacks are affected by the force field, but
>attacks targeted on this person would hit at full strength.
>
>On one hand I am trying to explain why the power doesn't work that way, but
>on the other hand, it does sort of make sense. Obviously, one would need
>the "Usable Against Others" advantage. And for that matter, there is
>nothing to stop the target from moving out of the targeted hex.
Sounds like an Invisible Entangle with Takes No Damage and Backlash and
a hefty limitation. Remember that the 'force field' is just a SFX -
just right for a MP or EC.
All you need to do is explain to her that the force field is the 'what'
and the powers are the 'how'.
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 98 11:18:39
From: "qts" <qts@nildram.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Multiple Actions
On Sat, 12 Dec 1998 19:14:48 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>At 10:38 PM 12/11/98 +0000, qts wrote:
>>On Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:49:52 -0500, Scott Nolan wrote:
>>
>>>I'm still working on FH spells, and I've got an effect I'd like help in
>>>modelling.
>>>
>>>The spell creates several little floating fireballs, which the caster can
>>>send off all at once, or one at a time. The balls will follow enemies
>>>around corners and so on. The balls can be attacked independantly.
>>>That part's easy.
>>>
>>>What I -also- want to do is allow him to send off the fireballs on
>succeeding
>>>rounds with only a thought, without interfering with his ability to take
>>>actions on those succeeding rounds.
>>
>>How about using a Continuing charge? You'd actually have two spells -
>>one for the all at once (Autofire + Charges) and one for the one at a
>>time (Continuous Charge). A tightly limited Variable Advantage will
>>cover this nicely.
>>
>>2d6 RKA [30] Variable Advantage (+1 1/2) - only Autofire or Continuous
>>(-2 on VA only),
>> 4 Charges (-1)
>>
>>Add in foci, etc to taste.
>>
>>75 Active, 27 (=15+12) Real
>
>Is this the way Continuous works? I'd understood that Continuous
>only allows you to continue attacking without a new roll when you
>attack the same target. I had never understood it to mean that you
>could attack as a 0-phase action, leaving you open to do other things
>on the succeeding rounds, which is what I'm trying to achieve.
A power with charges is automatically Uncontrolled once started.
Actually, I should have made the Charges Limitation 'All at Once if
Continuous' or just think of it as One Charge Continuing for One Turn.
I could have put this in as a tightly limited Variable Limitation, but
the maths get horrible :}
qts
Home: qts@nildram.co.uk.
------------------------------
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