Digest Archives Vol 1 Issue 99
From: owner-champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Sent: Friday, December 18, 1998 2:10 AM
To: champ-l-digest@sysabend.org
Subject: champ-l-digest V1 #99
champ-l-digest Friday, December 18 1998 Volume 01 : Number 099
In this issue:
Re: impaired gaming
Re: Updated VIPER [Long!]
Greetings!
RE: Looking For Printable Hex Maps
Martial Arts Maneuver Elements (longish)
95 years ago...
RE: Updated VIPER
Re: 95 years ago...
Re: 95 years ago...
Re: 95 years ago...
Re: Martial Arts Maneuver Elements (longish)
Re: 95 years ago...
re: Cottage Weekend
Re: impaired gaming
Re: 95 years ago...
Re: Updated VIPER
Re: Martial Arts Maneuver Elements (longish)
RE: Updated VIPER
Re: 95 years ago...
Re: Updated VIPER
Re: Martial Arts Maneuver Elements (longish)
re: Cottage Weekend
Re: impaired gaming
Re: Updated VIPER
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:01:46 -0600 (CST)
From: "Dr. Nuncheon" <jeffj@io.com>
Subject: Re: impaired gaming
On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, geoff heald wrote:
<snip of great story>
But, I gotta ask:
> I spent most of the day drooling into the carpet with a barbell placed
> behind my head, pinning me to the floor.
WHY?
> Last point: a great gamer and friend of mine once said, "I don't become an
> @$$hole when I'm drunk; I'm _always_ an @$$hole. It's just when I'm drunk
> I can't override my natural @$$hole-ish tendancies."
Words of wisdom.
J
Hostes aliengeni me abduxerent. Jeff Johnston - jeffj@io.com
Qui annus est? http://www.io.com/~jeffj
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:20:34 EST
From: llwatts@juno.com (Leah L Watts)
Subject: Re: Updated VIPER [Long!]
>> >Again, the point of the section is being missed. This isn't a
>>study in "this is how VIPER is dealing with the Champions, and you have
to
>>use the Champions in this adventure." It's a look at "here's one more
item
>>in the arsenal of VIPER for dealing with supers that tick them off."
And
>>they're not, as a rule, the type to just put a bullet through the brain
of
>>an enemy as said enemy steps out of the shower.
> Okay - *big* difference in core visions of VIPER here with you Bob -
>I can't see any group that exists solely for profit wasting a billion
bucks
>to humiliate *anyone.* If a normal thinks you're not hot stuff because
>Seeker trashed seven of your guys on national TV, then visit his
grandmother
>with a chainsaw and he'll figure out the truth really quickly.
I lean to the four-color view of VIPER, but if Joe Normal is refusing to
smuggle sealed crates of VIPER materials on his company's trucks because
"you guys are wimps, I saw Seeker beat up 7 of your agents at once", I
would expect the local nest to pound him into tapioca ("I've met Seeker,
and you're not him"). But, that only intimidates one person. Pounding
Seeker or any of the other Champions into tapioca on national TV would
intimidate many more people, since they're supposed to be able to handle
VIPER. After that fight, Joe Normal would be more likely to shut up and
load the crates. Maybe the Nest Leader's main reason to put the
Champions in the hospital was revenge, but it would still produce
benefits to VIPER as a whole.
And, as someone else pointed out, the new hero-zapper weapon doesn't have
to be a one-use device. A weapon that can be used in a wide range of
missions, but that also sets off an annoying hero's Vulnerability, would
be cost-effective to build even if most nests will never encounter that
hero.
Leah
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:32:58 -0600
From: "McBride, Sean" <Sean_McBride@ATKEARNEY.com>
Subject: Greetings!
Greetings Everyone!
Just a note to say hi, introduce myself, and let you know that I am in Brian
Wawrows' "Mind-Bogglingly Cool" FH game.
I'm new to RPG's but I'm learning, so please bear with any stupid newbie
questions...
Merry Ho-Ho,
Sean McBride, CNA
Technical Assistant - A.T.Kearney, Toronto
Ontario, Canada
VOICE: (416)596-3757
PAGER: (888)293-7243 PIN:011-5550
Sean.McBride@ATKearney.com
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. - Albert
Einstein
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:45:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Dale Ward <daleaward@rocketmail.com>
Subject: RE: Looking For Printable Hex Maps
Greetings!
- ---Filksinger <filkhero@usa.net> wrote:
>
> As a filksinger, I have license to be silly whenever I please.
>
Hmmm... Point taken. Charges dropped.
Dale A. Ward
<Back On The Beat>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:34:56 PST
From: "Roland Volz" <roland_volz@hotmail.com>
Subject: Martial Arts Maneuver Elements (longish)
Season's greetings to the list! I was designing a martial art when a
question came up. In typical fashion, I came up with two solutions,
neither one of which I liked more than the other. Therefore, I thought
I'd share them with the list and see if there was anything I missed (as
usual :). Also, I respect the intelligence and creativity of the people
on the list when it comes to solving conceptual design problems, and
wanted to see if anyone came up with something I liked better, so here
goes.
I wanted to design a martial arts maneuver that is specifically for
assaulting two opponents at once. For example, remember that guy in
Police Academy (I forget which one) who kicks two guys in the head at
once? That's the kind of think I'm thinking about. Looking at the
elements that are already there, I came up with two ways to do it:
1) Create a new element called "Sweep" (see the optional maneuver in the
Hero System Rulebook and the BBB). It costs 3 points, modifies the OCV
bonus by -2 (which can be bought back up), and allows the maneuver to
attack two opponents at once. It doesn't give any special bonus if used
to attack just *one* opponent; it just allows the maneuver to affect two
adjacent targets with the same maneuver. An attack roll must be made to
hit each target, and if the first one misses, the second target may not
be hit. The maneuver now takes up a full phase; the Time+ element may
still be added, but now adds an additional Phase as opposed to an
additional Segment (not sure about that last part).
2) Add the maneuver element "Must be Swept". This deducts 2 from the
cost of the maneuver, just like "Must Follow ...". This is more severe
than the previous, since the first option allows you to buy up the OCV
of the maneuver to cancel the -2 penalty for being Swept; the second
does not.
I would greatly appreciate any feedback anyone would like to share.
Thanks!
Roland
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:54:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: 95 years ago...
In this time of impeachment hearings and cruise missiles, of war with
Iraq, and shouting Congressmen, perhaps it is time to mark a more
positive occasion. One that has had more of an impact on the 20th Century
than possibly any other.
95 years ago, two young men - both high-school drops outs - who made their
living repairing bicycles, accomplished a feat deemed impossible by many
of their fellows.
They flew.
The plane, made from wood, wire and cloth was aloft for a mere 12 seconds,
reached an altitude of only 10 feet and had atop speed of only 35 miles
and hour. But, it was the first time in history that a self-powered,
heavier than air craft had acheaved independent flight under its own
power.
As a comparision, the 120 feet traveled by the Wright brother's Flyer is
significantly less than the wingspan of a modern 747. And while the Flyer
took 12 seconds to travel 120 feet, the 747 can fly 1.6 miles in the same
amount of time.
Now, we have planes that fly purely though human muscle power,
solar-powered planes, planes that can fly around the world on a single
tank of fuel, planes that can skim the edge of the atmosphere and fly at
better than 4,000 mph, a plane that can glide back from space and Earth
orbit...
And where will we go next?
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:56:51 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: RE: Updated VIPER
At 07:18 PM 12/16/98 -0600, Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin wrote:
>At 07:47 AM 12/15/1998 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
>> Again, the point of the section is being missed. This isn't a study in
>>"this is how VIPER is dealing with the Champions, and you have to use the
>>Champions in this adventure." It's a look at "here's one more item in the
>>arsenal of VIPER for dealing with supers that tick them off."
>
>I guess it just depends on what the weapons are and how they're presented.
>Obsidian, for example, will never be a part of my campaign. The
>Obsidian-Bane Class III Vibra-Gun would be an absolute waste of time for me
>if presented as something developed primarily for use against that
>character.
You're still missing the point. It's not necessarily a weapon to be
used in the course of a game (though it can certainly be that), but an
example of what will happen to *your* character if he becomes enough of a
burr in VIPER's butt.
>Now, if it were written up as a general use sonic weapon, something they
>regularly use to Tunnel through or disintegrate walls, or to attack
>vehicles, and merely included a footnote to the effect that VIPER agents
>trained in the use of this weapon have been advised of Obsidian's
>Vulnerability, that would be fine. At least then it's a matter of taking
>advantage of resources that have much broader uses, not spending huge
>amounts of caash to develop weapons designed to counter a single individual
>(or very small group of individuals with the same weakness).
I'd forgotten that Obsidian, like most of the Crusher Gang, is
vulnerable to sonics. That's yet one more incentive for VIPER to develop a
Sonic RKA weapon (probably Penetrating) for general issue... right, Scott?
:-]
For most of your points in this paragraph, though, I do agree. The
suggestion I was giving above falls more under the issue of "How VIPER
Hunts Your Character" (as an GM's alternative to what's in the existing
work) than under the category of "general issue weapons," and designing the
weapons against the Champions was just an f'r'instance (since it'd be
impossible for Scott to write up "weapons VIPER will develop for use
specifically against your PCs when they get 400 experience points and foil
them for the 86th time").
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:57:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 95 years ago...
> And where will we go next?
About 23 hexes, including knockback...
==
Elliott aka The Egyptoid
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:13:31 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: 95 years ago...
At 01:54 PM 12/17/98 -0500, Michael Surbrook wrote:
[cool stuff about the Wright Brothers and aviation in general]
>And where will we go next?
I think two of the answers can be found at:
http://www.moller.com
http://www.nasa.gov
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:22:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com>
Subject: Re: 95 years ago...
On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Oscar Tibor wrote:
> Hopefully to Mars within the next 20 years, although mankind should
> already have colonies on the moon & Mars if we had continued with a real
> space program. Unfortunately we must rely on the space shuttle, over a
> billion accidents waiting to happen.
> There endeth my rant on the space program.
All things considered, the shuttle seems to work quite well.
Michael Surbrook / susano@otd.com
http://www.otd.com/~susano/index.html
"'Cause I'm the god of destruction, that's why!" - Susano Orbatos,Orion
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:29:50 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Martial Arts Maneuver Elements (longish)
At 10:34 AM 12/17/98 PST, Roland Volz wrote:
>2) Add the maneuver element "Must be Swept". This deducts 2 from the
>cost of the maneuver, just like "Must Follow ...". This is more severe
>than the previous, since the first option allows you to buy up the OCV
>of the maneuver to cancel the -2 penalty for being Swept; the second
>does not.
Between your two options, I'd recommend this one. And technically, you
*can* buy up the -2 OCV from the Sweep by taking a regular +2 OCV.
However, what I'd really recommend is just buying the maneuver, and
using the Sweep option with it regularly.
Another possibility would be to take Combat Skill Levels vs Sweep
Pentalties for just this one maneuver, at the rate of +2 (to offset just
this one, specific thing) per point spent on it.
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:22:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Oscar Tibor <oscartibor@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 95 years ago...
Michael Surbrook wrote:
>
> In this time of impeachment hearings and cruise missiles, of war with
> Iraq, and shouting Congressmen, perhaps it is time to mark a more
> positive occasion. One that has had more of an impact on the 20th
Century
> than possibly any other.
>
> 95 years ago, two young men - both high-school drops outs - who made
their
> living repairing bicycles, accomplished a feat deemed impossible by
many
> of their fellows.
>
> They flew.
>
> The plane, made from wood, wire and cloth was aloft for a mere 12
seconds,
> reached an altitude of only 10 feet and had atop speed of only 35
miles
> and hour. But, it was the first time in history that a self-powered,
> heavier than air craft had acheaved independent flight under its own
> power.
>
> As a comparision, the 120 feet traveled by the Wright brother's
Flyer is
> significantly less than the wingspan of a modern 747. And while the
Flyer
> took 12 seconds to travel 120 feet, the 747 can fly 1.6 miles in the
same
> amount of time.
>
> Now, we have planes that fly purely though human muscle power,
> solar-powered planes, planes that can fly around the world on a single
> tank of fuel, planes that can skim the edge of the atmosphere and
fly at
> better than 4,000 mph, a plane that can glide back from space and
Earth
> orbit...
>
> And where will we go next?
>
Hopefully to Mars within the next 20 years, although mankind should
already have colonies on the moon & Mars if we had continued with a real
space program. Unfortunately we must rely on the space shuttle, over a
billion accidents waiting to happen.
There endeth my rant on the space program.
Oscar Tibor
Insurance Agent Extraordinaire
_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:41:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Cottage Weekend
1) re: "Blowing Spliff" - Dunno, never had any. I don't judge people for
doing it, but I can say this: Everytime I've found out that they
did smoke mj, it explained to me why they had already made a bad
impression on me. But the world needs flake-a-zoids as well as
well-nigh-perfect people like me, so I don't say anything.
2) re: Getting away from it all to game: Not counting game conventions,
I've done this like three times.
Summer at a lake-side villa on Lake Lure, North Carolina. Pretty
much
the same schedule and benefits described earlier, minus the "spliff".
Several weekend retreats running: /cue weird music/ StarTrek the RPG.
Once a bunch of us Champions players took over a Relax-a-con in Bham,
Alabama. I had all my books, loads of Cardboard Heroes, and a pretty
good show was put on for all the non-gamers. For much of the night
we had interested spectators. (For those of you who've read my JLA
page, this was the "Zoo Crew" adventures). Normally the Con was
sci-fi
oriented, but we shoved in some gaming.
Can't remember the third time. must be all the drinking. But it was
great I tell you. Ya shoulda been there, man.
3) re: Impaired Gaming I've done this twice, once in an rpg, once
not:
One time we were playing Supremacy, the nuke-war boardgame, and I put
away a whole bottle of peach schnapps. I was playing South America as
my world power. I had nukes first and I was holding other players
hostage. If they sent me 100 virgins I would spare them the bomb.
Later on, the guy running Europe pissed me off, so I bombed the hell
out of the continent and landed troops on England. The headlines
read:
"MEXICAN GENERAL PACO MELOCOTONE RAPES TRAFALGAR SQUARE"
I didn't win that one, but I came in 2nd, if such a thing is possible
in nuclear war.
I used to run a fantasy game each and every wednesday night.
Desmarais
was a player in it. He may remember this. one week I decided to GM
the game while plastered. The players arrived about 7 oclock, so at
5:30 I began sipping on some Hairy Navels. So they all piled in and
everything was just the same as previous weeks. Right!!!
I thought everything I did was hilarious and I handed out way too
much magic, gold, and x.p.s. Desmarais may enlighten us on this
episode...?
My goal is to find a bar where they encourage using polyhedral dice.
FYI: melocotones is Spanish for peaches...
PS: Don't bother to flame or reply until you
have recalibrated your sarcasmometer.
I might've left out 1 or 2 of the :) or ;) above. See Ya Tomorrow!
==
Elliott aka The Egyptoid
_________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:56:26 -0500
From: geoff heald <gheald@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: impaired gaming
At 08:01 AM 12/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>But, I gotta ask:
>
>> I spent most of the day drooling into the carpet with a barbell placed
>> behind my head, pinning me to the floor.
>
>WHY?
>
>
Beats me. Seemed like a good idea at the time. Persoanally, I think it
had something to do with the narcotics and impaired judgement. I mean, I
_put_ the barbell behind my head. And I _could_ have moved it if I wanted
to.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:23:16 -0600
From: "Logan D." <logand@cyberramp.net>
Subject: Re: 95 years ago...
- -----Original Message-----
From: Oscar Tibor <oscartibor@yahoo.com>
To: Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com&> Champions Mailing List
<champ-l@sysabend.org>
Date: Thursday, December 17, 1998 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: 95 years ago...
>> And where will we go next?
>>
>Hopefully to Mars within the next 20 years, although mankind should
>already have colonies on the moon & Mars if we had continued with a real
>space program. Unfortunately we must rely on the space shuttle, over a
>billion accidents waiting to happen.
>There endeth my rant on the space program.
>
>Oscar Tibor
>Insurance Agent Extraordinaire
Trust an insurance agent to be on the pessimistic side when it comes to
accidents. ~_^
- -Logan
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable
game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective
of any of the other players,* to being involved in an obscure and complex
version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite
stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who
_smiles all the time_."
-Neil Gaimen and Terry Pratchett
_Good Omens_
*i.e., everybody.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
web page: http://www.cyberramp.net/~logand/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:21:26 -0800
From: Scott Bennie <sbennie@dowco.com>
Subject: Re: Updated VIPER
> >I guess it just depends on what the weapons are and how they're presented.
> Obsidian, for example, will never be a part of my campaign. The Obsidian-Bane
> Class III Vibra-Gun would be an absolute waste of time for me if presented as
> something developed primarily for use against that character. <
>
> You're still missing the point. It's not necessarily a weapon to be used
> in the course of a game (though it can certainly be that), but an example of
> what will happen to *your* character if he becomes enough of a burr in VIPER's
> butt.
>
> >Now, if it were written up as a general use sonic weapon, something they
> regularly use to Tunnel through or disintegrate walls, or to attack vehicles,
> and merely included a footnote to the effect that VIPER agents trained in the
> use of this weapon have been advised of Obsidian's Vulnerability, that would
> be fine. At least then it's a matter of taking advantage of resources that
> have much broader uses, not spending huge amounts of cash to develop weapons
> designed to counter a single individual (or very small group of individuals
> with the same weakness).
>
> I'd forgotten that Obsidian, like most of the Crusher Gang, is vulnerable
> to sonics. That's yet one more incentive for VIPER to develop a Sonic RKA
> weapon (probably Penetrating) for general issue... right, Scott?
Probably. It depends on how quickly VIPER labs can adjust the VR-10 sonic rifle
to be a killing attack rather than an AVLD.
Let's see, if I wanted to take out the Champions, I'd want the following:
Seeker: 1 hex AE Killing Attack weapon (adjust the EG-01 to develop a small
fragmentation grenade launcher; minor development project).
Obsidian: VR-10 sonic rifle or a new (VR-10A) killing penetrating weapon
mentioned above..
Quantum: Assuming they know the disad, VIPER needs to develop a STUN drain
weapon. Probably a paralyzing gas grenade launcher with continuing charges
(significant development project).
Jaguar: Same weapon as Quantum, again assuming they know his Accidental Change.
Defender: Develop a magnetic blaster that does extra damage against robots and
powered armor (Major development project, but probably one VIPER would find very
useful).
Solitaire: Develop a probability gun that does extra damage against people with
Unluck.
(Major development project, likely to be shelved) or a Drain vs. all magic
effects gun (Major development project, likely to reap major benefits for VIPER,
but just as likely to make them major mystic enemies should they learn of its
development).
Scott Bennie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:25:10 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Martial Arts Maneuver Elements (longish)
At 10:34 AM 12/17/1998 PST, Roland Volz wrote:
>I wanted to design a martial arts maneuver that is specifically for
>assaulting two opponents at once. For example, remember that guy in
>Police Academy (I forget which one) who kicks two guys in the head at
>once? That's the kind of think I'm thinking about. Looking at the
>elements that are already there, I came up with two ways to do it:
>
>1) Create a new element called "Sweep" (see the optional maneuver in the
>Hero System Rulebook and the BBB). It costs 3 points, modifies the OCV
>bonus by -2 (which can be bought back up), and allows the maneuver to
>attack two opponents at once. It doesn't give any special bonus if used
>to attack just *one* opponent; it just allows the maneuver to affect two
>adjacent targets with the same maneuver. An attack roll must be made to
>hit each target, and if the first one misses, the second target may not
>be hit. The maneuver now takes up a full phase; the Time+ element may
>still be added, but now adds an additional Phase as opposed to an
>additional Segment (not sure about that last part).
There are several people on this list who will very likely be able to
provide useful comments on martial arts maneuvers. I'm not one of them. I
do have some questions about the above treatment, which perhaps those more
knowledgeable folks would care to answer while they're addressing your
original query:
If I understood it correctly, one possible use of the maneuver is to use a
long pole or plank to hit two people at the same time, one just ahead and
to your left, the other just ahead and to your right. All you do is bring
the improvised weapon up and thrust it forward; it should hit both targets
simultaneously. The above treatment gives a -2 to OCV [no problem],
requires separate attack rolls for each target [questionable, I think, but
see #1 below] and makes it impossible to hit the "secondary" target if the
first roll fails [why?]
So here are my questions:
(1) In the example above, the attacker is making a single thrust toward
closely adjacent targets that he expects to hit simultaneously. Why two
separate attack rolls? Does it not make more sense to have a single roll,
compared separately to the [possibly different] DCVs of the two targets?
"Okay, you rolled X, which is sufficient to hit the guy on the left, but
the guy on the right just manages to duck back out of the way thanks to his
superior DCV."
Now, remember I didn't claim to be able to offer useful advice on this
subject, but I think it might make more sense to me if you applied a -2 to
OCV for attacking two targets together, with an extra -1 or -2 for every
additional target to be attacked together, instead of requiring separate
attack rolls. The greater the number of targets, the more difficult the
move, but you'd still be able to treat it as a single move, outcome varying
only based on the DCV of each target. I don't know how you'd determine the
maximum number of simultaneous targets, but I can see allowing three or
four under some circumstances.
(2) Even given that two separate attack rolls makes sense for a single move
(and I would like that explained), why should missing the "first" roll make
it impossible to hit the "second" target? They're being attacked
*together*, not one after the other. There is no "secondary" target,
distinguishable from a "primary" target. How can the result of the attack
on the left-hand target be influenced by the outcome of the attack on the
right-hand target (or vice versa) when the occur in the same instant?
(3) For purposes of the first two questions, does it make any difference
that I described an attack that included the use of a weapon (Weapon
Element required?) as opposed to Roland's original example of kicking two
guys in the head at once?
(4) In cases where a ladder, long pole or plank is used, you might also be
able to Block multiple incoming attacks with a single maneuver. In the
recent Zorro movie, the "new" Zorro was able to Bind three attackers'
swords simultaneously by enticing them to thrust at him through an
iron-barred cell door, then sliding the door to one side to trap all three
blades. Could Blocking multiple opponents could be done in some similar
fashion, based in part on what Roland described for a single attack with
multiple targets?
Oops, sorry, that list of questions was longer than I'd intended it to
be...things kept occuring to me as I typed.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:51:44 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: RE: Updated VIPER
At 09:56 AM 12/17/1998 -0800, Bob Greenwade wrote:
> For most of your points in this paragraph, though, I do agree. The
>suggestion I was giving above falls more under the issue of "How VIPER
>Hunts Your Character" (as an GM's alternative to what's in the existing
>work) than under the category of "general issue weapons," and designing the
>weapons against the Champions was just an f'r'instance (since it'd be
>impossible for Scott to write up "weapons VIPER will develop for use
>specifically against your PCs when they get 400 experience points and foil
>them for the 86th time").
Well, exactly. That's part of why I was arguing against your suggestion
for character-specific weapons (or rather, since I kept missing the point,
against what I incorrectly understood to be your suggestion for
character-specific weapons, for which you grabbed the Champions as a
convenient example).
My reasoning was: the Champions won't be in my campaign, nor, I suspected,
in most people's homegrown campaigns; Scott can't design weapons
specifically to counter the heroes that *will* be in any given homegrown
campaign, because he'll have no way of anticipating who they are, how
powerful they are or what any of their weaknesses may be.
So, weapons designed and built with the purpose of taking out specific
heroes -- *any* specific heroes -- are not only a waste of money for VIPER,
but possibly a waste of space in the book, for anyone who doesn't use
either the Champions as written, or homegrown heroes with at least some of
the same exploitable weaknesses.
If in fact you were suggesting that the "How VIPER Hunts..." section be
expanded to include the notion of using various of VIPER's multipurpose
tools and weapons to attack heroes based on a known weakness, and making
sure VIPER agents trained in the use of said weapons/equipment are made
aware of which heroes have applicable weaknesses...well, if I'd caught that
earlier I could have saved us both some time here. Certainly I have no
quarrel with that idea.
If, OTOH, you were suggesting that "How VIPER Hunts..." include the
suggestion that VIPER invest lots of cash in designing and building weapon
systems that might or might not have additional, incidental uses, but which
were commisioned for the purpose of targeting specific characters
(homegrown or not)...that I'd have to respectfully disagree with in almost
any circumstance.
I added "in almost any circumstance" at the last minute because it suddenly
occured to me that a weapon designed by LexCorp, specifically designed to
exploit Superman's weaknesses, makes perfect sense to me. However,
Superman is on a power level well above that of any individual Champion --
or homegrown character built on a similar number of points -- and most
normal attacks don't faze him. It's pretty much special weapons or nothing
in his case.
Besides, with Lex it's personal. It's not just that his criminal plans get
foiled time after time, the bigger problem is that with Supes around, Lex
is no longer the Big Man in Metropolis. It's a full-blown obsession with
him. If a VIPER nest leader, or someone in their R&D division with some
influence in Budget&Accounting, has this kind of obsession relative to an
individual character in the game...okay, let's see some money spent for
character-specific weapons designs.
Damon
------------------------------
Date: 17 Dec 1998 22:06:58 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: 95 years ago...
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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"MS" == Michael Surbrook <susano@otd.com> writes:
MS> All things considered, the shuttle seems to work quite well.
Yes, it does at that.
Truth is, it is an abject failure. Thank you Congress for cutting NASA's
development budget in half. By 'saving' so much money in development
costs, NASA's operational budget has skyrocketed (because ICBM-style
launches are hideously wasteful). That does not count the cost of
designing and building Venture Star now instead of 15 years ago.
On the other hand, Venture Star is one slick puppy.
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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=XElR
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
GPG Key: same as my PGP 5 (DH) key \
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:58:40 -0600
From: "Michael (Damon) & Peni Griffin" <griffin@txdirect.net>
Subject: Re: Updated VIPER
At 04:21 PM 12/17/1998 -0800, Scott Bennie wrote:
>Let's see, if I wanted to take out the Champions, I'd want the following:
>
>Seeker: 1 hex AE Killing Attack weapon (adjust the EG-01 to develop a small
>fragmentation grenade launcher; minor development project).
>Obsidian: VR-10 sonic rifle or a new (VR-10A) killing penetrating weapon
>mentioned above..
>Quantum: Assuming they know the disad, VIPER needs to develop a STUN drain
>weapon. Probably a paralyzing gas grenade launcher with continuing charges
>(significant development project).
>Jaguar: Same weapon as Quantum, again assuming they know his Accidental
Change.
>Defender: Develop a magnetic blaster that does extra damage against robots
and
>powered armor (Major development project, but probably one VIPER would
find very
>useful).
>Solitaire: Develop a probability gun that does extra damage against people
with
>Unluck.
>(Major development project, likely to be shelved) or a Drain vs. all magic
>effects gun (Major development project, likely to reap major benefits for
VIPER,
>but just as likely to make them major mystic enemies should they learn of its
>development).
All nice general use weapons, with the likely exception of those listed for
use against Solitaire (and the latter one's probably okay in any campaign
with an average or better amount of magic present). I needn't have
worried. :)
The probability gun might fit in with the San Angelo campaign...call it a
Flux Rifle or whatever. Flux Cannon? Yeah, I like the sound of Flux
Cannon better. ;)
Damon
------------------------------
Date: 17 Dec 1998 22:07:53 -0500
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Martial Arts Maneuver Elements (longish)
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Hash: SHA1
"RV" == Roland Volz <roland_volz@hotmail.com> writes:
RV> I wanted to design a martial arts maneuver that is specifically for
RV> assaulting two opponents at once.
Use "Sweep" as written in the book.
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GJCR+yYxFivHV/HyRW4mW6U=
=Q5+z
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- --
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
PGP Key: at a key server near you! \
GPG Key: same as my PGP 5 (DH) key \
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:19:10 -0800 (PST)
From: John Desmarais <johndesmarais@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: Cottage Weekend
- ---Ell Egyptoid <egyptoid@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I used to run a fantasy game each and every wednesday night.
> Desmarais
> was a player in it. He may remember this. one week I decided to GM
> the game while plastered. The players arrived about 7 oclock, so at
> 5:30 I began sipping on some Hairy Navels. So they all piled in and
> everything was just the same as previous weeks. Right!!!
> I thought everything I did was hilarious and I handed out way too
> much magic, gold, and x.p.s. Desmarais may enlighten us on this
> episode...?
Was this the "Poker with the Deck of Many Things" game?
==
=======================================
John Desmarais <champ-l-owner@sysabend.org>
Keeper of the Champions / Hero System mailing
list. http://www.sysabend.org/champions
=======================================
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:06:27 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: impaired gaming
At 06:56 PM 12/17/98 -0500, geoff heald wrote:
>At 08:01 AM 12/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>But, I gotta ask:
>>
>>> I spent most of the day drooling into the carpet with a barbell placed
>>> behind my head, pinning me to the floor.
>>
>>WHY?
>>
>>
>Beats me. Seemed like a good idea at the time. Persoanally, I think it
>had something to do with the narcotics and impaired judgement. I mean, I
>_put_ the barbell behind my head. And I _could_ have moved it if I wanted
>to.
If one can count unmedicated panic disorder as an "impairment," I
suppose you could say that I've never gamed in a *non*-impaired state....
(That's why I've only been skimming this thread: Been there, done that,
got the T-shirt.)
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:24:52 -0800
From: Bob Greenwade <bob.greenwade@klock.com>
Subject: Re: Updated VIPER
At 04:21 PM 12/17/98 -0800, Scott Bennie wrote:
>> I'd forgotten that Obsidian, like most of the Crusher Gang, is
vulnerable
>> to sonics. That's yet one more incentive for VIPER to develop a Sonic RKA
>> weapon (probably Penetrating) for general issue... right, Scott?
>
>Probably. It depends on how quickly VIPER labs can adjust the VR-10 sonic
rifle
>to be a killing attack rather than an AVLD.
>
>Let's see, if I wanted to take out the Champions, I'd want the following:
>
>Seeker: 1 hex AE Killing Attack weapon (adjust the EG-01 to develop a small
>fragmentation grenade launcher; minor development project).
Personally, I'd go for Autofire Explosions -- an EG-02A.
>Obsidian: VR-10 sonic rifle or a new (VR-10A) killing penetrating weapon
>mentioned above..
The reason for the VR-10A would be that it could be lethal to those
VIPER enemies with high defenses -- Obsidian, Armadillo, Powerhouse, and
Buzzsaw are the ones that I can find easily, though I'm sure there are others.
>Quantum: Assuming they know the disad, VIPER needs to develop a STUN drain
>weapon. Probably a paralyzing gas grenade launcher with continuing charges
>(significant development project).
Nah, I'd make it a BODY Drain in the form of a metabolic disruptor.
Like the above, a significant development project, but one that can be
deadly to many other enemies of VIPER as well.
>Jaguar: Same weapon as Quantum, again assuming they know his Accidental
Change.
I think either a STUN or BODY Drain would be good against him. In fact,
the BODY Drain would be even deadlier against him than against Quantum.
>Defender: Develop a magnetic blaster that does extra damage against robots
and
>powered armor (Major development project, but probably one VIPER would
find very
>useful).
An anti-tech device (Dispel vs All High-Tech Powers At Once) might be
just as useful (especially if one allows the "Cumulative" Advantage on
Dispel). It would also be effective against Warhawk (whom I developed for
TUV).
>Solitaire: Develop a probability gun that does extra damage against people
with
>Unluck.
>(Major development project, likely to be shelved) or a Drain vs. all magic
>effects gun (Major development project, likely to reap major benefits for
VIPER,
>but just as likely to make them major mystic enemies should they learn of its
>development).
The Drain looks nice to me, though some sort of fear-gas grenade might
be nearly as effective (given a couple of her Psych Limits).
- ---
Bob's Original Hero Stuff Page! [Circle of HEROS member]
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/original.htm
Merry-Go-Round Webring -- wanna join?
http://www.klock.com/public/users/bob.greenwade/merrhome.htm
------------------------------
End of champ-l-digest V1 #99
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